S'pore needs immigrants to survive: MM
-
Originally posted by Ah Chia:
Your list of websites makes you look like a commie. All radical or far left.
-
All radical or far left.
There are only a few socialist and cuban news sites, no communist propaganda sites.
Below are communist propaganda websites:
http://www.mltoday.com
http://www.marxist.com
http://www.marxists.org
http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org
http://www.cpa.org.au/guardian/guardian.html -
Originally posted by angel7030:
So be it, the govt intervention will help you out, it is not that singaporeans now got no jobs, just that there is a structural unemployment going on due to the economic crisis.A talent person from another country actually do not wish to come here, he/she will prefer his/her own country, however, because of his/her country poor system to provide them a decent job, they left their home in search for better pasture. And here in Singapore, being multi cultural, peaceful and harmony, they choosed here to be part of their life if not forever.
The issue is that most singaporeans pick on them to be a job snatcher and that the govt immigration policy is a total disadvantage to them. But I see it as an opportunity for me to use them to the advantage of Singaporeans. There are many foreign business and firms here with foreign talents that created many jobs for singaporeans.
The fact that i got PRC and thai gals here earning money for us is a gift, you simply cannot find singaporeans doing it. If you cannot make in life, dun blame here and there, ask yourself, what fxxk had you been doing all these years?? To me, all Singaporeans should be a boss by now
and yes, im thankful to the PRCs and thais for containing the perverts at ur so called pub...
and please look beyond the 4 walls of ur so called pub, the world is actually a lot bigger...
-
Originally posted by GHoST_18:
and yes, im thankful to the PRCs and thais for containing the perverts at ur so called pub...
and please look beyond the 4 walls of ur so called pub, the world is actually a lot bigger...
so angel07030 is a pimp??!
-
Originally posted by speakup-:
Hi starexcalibur i really appreciate your post its really quite enlightening for me. I especially found the last 2 paragrahs really thought provoking. I think its true that afterall everyone is in it for the money and that is way we have to try to preserve our social fabric at large. We welcome foreigners and we allow them into our community but we do have to bear in mind that we, the true Singaporeans are afterall what makes up this country and it is important to keep the core of our population together.
Nonetheless Im still not thoroughly convinced that the problem of foreigners being able to fight with our own people at almost every level of skilled and unskilled labour is really that prevalent. I mean unemployment rates havent been shooting up in the last few years and people's main complaints have been in the lower tiers of employment. Perhaps you can refer me to some articles so I can get a clearer picture on these aspects.
I agree with you that getting more 'skilled' is not an instant solution. But what I do believe is that getting 'multi-skilled' can solve the problem. I may be wrong to assume this, but the skilled labour from the neighbouring ASEAN countries where the chief source of foreigners are coming are more 'mono-skilled'. Perhaps it is because their country's development and education has just taken flight. Hence I actually hold strongly to the idea that being more versed in more than one skill may actually increase one's employability.
Afraid I can't refer you to any articles, maybe you can ask your working friends, relatives who are working in technical jobs or search the internet.Consider this scenario:
If you are the employer and tasked to hire a person from these 2 people for a technical job, who will you hire?
A. A local who had the technical skills, qualifications, experience and is asking for a monthly pay of $1800.
B. A skilled foreigner who also had the same technical skills, qualifications, experience and is asking for a monthly pay of $1600.
The answer should be obvious as the job will most likely goes to the foreigner.
The skilled foreigners are mainly from asian countries such as Philippines, India and China. They have technical degrees and had worked in their countries as engineers for a couple of years before coming here.
As for being multi-skilled to enhance one's employment, well, that translates to me as being able to do 3 or more persons jobs and still be paid the salary of one.
-
Originally posted by fishbuff1:
so angel07030 is a pimp??!
-
I understand your example and i thoroughly agree with your conclusion. However it is insufficient to show on a larger scale whether this has been happening on a large scale and if so why are Singaporeans still preferred. And honestly if the new requirements of today is to be able to do the job of 3 persons to earn your keep then i guess its just all about adaptation. Its not something we can change. If we were to suggest protectionistic policies in terms of labour flows, then our own entrepreneurs would suffer when they go to countries like China and India who will retaliate with policies of their own as we choose to shun their cheap labour. Protectionism is a beggar-thy-neighbour policy and is always harmful for globalisation. Singapore's urgent need to be part of the global economy just means that we have to be ever-adapting and ever-changing to meet the needs of the new global economy.
-
Originally posted by starExcaliblur:
Afraid I can't refer you to any articles, maybe you can ask your working friends, relatives who are working in technical jobs or search the internet.Consider this scenario:
If you are the employer and tasked to hire a person from these 2 people for a technical job, who will you hire?
A. A local who had the technical skills, qualifications, experience and is asking for a monthly pay of $1800.
B. A skilled foreigner who also had the same technical skills, qualifications, experience and is asking for a monthly pay of $1600.
The answer should be obvious as the job will most likely goes to the foreigner.
The skilled foreigners are mainly from asian countries such as Philippines, India and China. They have technical degrees and had worked in their countries as engineers for a couple of years before coming here.
As for being multi-skilled to enhance one's employment, well, that translates to me as being able to do 3 or more persons jobs and still be paid the salary of one.
Welcome to the rat race.
I rather be able to do 2 person's job, and be paid the amount of 2, like now
-
Originally posted by speakup-:
I understand your example and i thoroughly agree with your conclusion. However it is insufficient to show on a larger scale whether this has been happening on a large scale and if so why are Singaporeans still preferred. And honestly if the new requirements of today is to be able to do the job of 3 persons to earn your keep then i guess its just all about adaptation. Its not something we can change. If we were to suggest protectionistic policies in terms of labour flows, then our own entrepreneurs would suffer when they go to countries like China and India who will retaliate with policies of their own as we choose to shun their cheap labour. Protectionism is a beggar-thy-neighbour policy and is always harmful for globalisation. Singapore's urgent need to be part of the global economy just means that we have to be ever-adapting and ever-changing to meet the needs of the new global economy.
Honestly speaking, you will kill yourself by working harder and making yourself able to do the job of 3 persons just to earn your keep.
When you are over 40, and anything happens, or another recession appears, you will be over qualified. Your bills will pile up... etc... Because we will have more and more people being able to do the same, including foreigners. And if we keep this up, one day, you will need to be able to do the job of 5 persons just to earn your keep.
Instead, one should aim to be able to do the job that few people (and especially foreigners) can do, and that few can do it well. Be different. Be unique. That's the key.
-
Originally posted by GHoST_18:
and yes, im thankful to the PRCs and thais for containing the perverts at ur so called pub...
and please look beyond the 4 walls of ur so called pub, the world is actually a lot bigger...
If u shut up, nobody will say you are a ghost.U think i got one pub with 4 walls only ar?? who dunno the world is bigger than a pub, just that many people like you like to think domestically rather than global.
-
Originally posted by fishbuff1:
so angel07030 is a pimp??!
Pimp??? pimp pimp hurray!!! Crazy fish...me go eat Fish n Co. -
Originally posted by eagle:
Honestly speaking, you will kill yourself by working harder and making yourself able to do the job of 3 persons just to earn your keep.
When you are over 40, and anything happens, or another recession appears, you will be over qualified. Your bills will pile up... etc... Because we will have more and more people being able to do the same, including foreigners. And if we keep this up, one day, you will need to be able to do the job of 5 persons just to earn your keep.
Instead, one should aim to be able to do the job that few people (and especially foreigners) can do, and that few can do it well. Be different. Be unique. That's the key.
That's very true.
My skills are in Articulation, Assertiveness, and Committment
Soft skills, all useful for getting work done, telling people I got work done, and telling people I WILL get work done.
And then there's the ability to understand and articulate information in a non-IT domain and use that information to drive IT solutions that match what the customer needs. This is something Indians, Filipinos, and all other so-called IT foreign experts out there lack greatly. We use most of these people for contract work, ie, coding coding coding. But we keep them away from the value-added work
Technical skills? Don't really depend on them to beat the foreigners.
Becoming a great developer that can do 3x work of other developers? What's the point? Sure die when you come up to 40 years old.
-
Yes eagle I agree having unique talents or a niche is extremely important, which is why footballers among other sportsmen and celebrities such as Will Smith are paid atrocious salaries. They have a niche, and scarcity breeds bargaining power, which is crucial to commanding good wages and remain employable. But how many people have such special talents to command that kind of wages? Especially as a lay worker, things like engineering and stuff, its hard to engineer a niche for yourself or have some special talent that makes you employable. What can distinguish you from another is probably just work experience and good recommendations by previous employers and stuff. Thats why when i say being able to do the job of 3 or 5 i dont actually mean quite literally but rather back to my point of being value-added. No two workers are the same no matter how qualified they may seem. At the end of the day it may come down to things like integrity and your socializing skills.
And if we keep this up, one day, you will need to be able to do the job of 5 persons just to earn your keep.
Honestly speaking, I would say the sad fact above may materialize one day. The world is getting competitive and theres nothing we can do about it. WIth competition comes improvements and its always a race to the top. Never can they be a truce and everyone be satisfied with status quo. Thats why in today's world its important to be innovative and multi-talented and of course have strong work ethics. I believe that there are a lot of foreigners with similar skill levels as us, so what we must ask ourselves is how are we going make ourselves stand out and be more desirable workers than them. Its the same as studying and fighting for scholarships and places in universities. Make yourself stand out!
-
Originally posted by speakup-:
Yes eagle I agree having unique talents or a niche is extremely important, which is why footballers among other sportsmen and celebrities such as Will Smith are paid atrocious salaries. They have a niche, and scarcity breeds bargaining power, which is crucial to commanding good wages and remain employable. But how many people have such special talents to command that kind of wages? Especially as a lay worker, things like engineering and stuff, its hard to engineer a niche for yourself or have some special talent that makes you employable. What can distinguish you from another is probably just work experience and good recommendations by previous employers and stuff. Thats why when i say being able to do the job of 3 or 5 i dont actually mean quite literally but rather back to my point of being value-added. No two workers are the same no matter how qualified they may seem. At the end of the day it may come down to things like integrity and your socializing skills.
Honestly speaking, I would say the sad fact above may materialize one day. The world is getting competitive and theres nothing we can do about it. WIth competition comes improvements and its always a race to the top. Never can they be a truce and everyone be satisfied with status quo. Thats why in today's world its important to be innovative and multi-talented and of course have strong work ethics. I believe that there are a lot of foreigners with similar skill levels as us, so what we must ask ourselves is how are we going make ourselves stand out and be more desirable workers than them. Its the same as studying and fighting for scholarships and places in universities. Make yourself stand out!
I would say all your concerns are valid............... from an employee's point of view.
If we can't change the system, then ride the system. Be the employer, and do it well as an employer. Think out of the box of being one, etc, etc.... Complain about foreigners? Employ them!
Or like me at the moment... I put a lot of efforts into tuition/education... This is something that is more unique to Singapore than to neighbouring countries... Put yourself in the shoes of the parent, address their concerns, etc... Would they find a tutor who was never educated in Singapore for the most part of their life?
It's not easy to be different and carve out your own niche, but then if it is, we wouldn't have so many complaints ;)
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
If u shut up, nobody will say you are a ghost.U think i got one pub with 4 walls only ar?? who dunno the world is bigger than a pub, just that many people like you like to think domestically rather than global.
well,
you gave many the impression ur pub is bigger than the world...
and u sure is going global by hiring PRCs and thais in your pub...
-
Originally posted by GHoST_18:
well,
you gave many the impression ur pub is bigger than the world...
and u sure is going global by hiring PRCs and thais in your pub...
my pub is not big, but i do think out of the pub (out of the box). My Pubs come with a 's' hor, not just one pub ya. Our foreigner staffs (thais, PRC, philipinos) are all work permit holder, it just that i cannot get the viet permit, so not much viet here.I am not those illegal dirty pimp bar hor...mine is licensed Mamasan
-
Originally posted by eagle:
I would say all your concerns are valid............... from an employee's point of view.
If we can't change the system, then ride the system. Be the employer, and do it well as an employer. Think out of the box of being one, etc, etc.... Complain about foreigners? Employ them!
Or like me at the moment... I put a lot of efforts into tuition/education... This is something that is more unique to Singapore than to neighbouring countries... Put yourself in the shoes of the parent, address their concerns, etc... Would they find a tutor who was never educated in Singapore for the most part of their life?
It's not easy to be different and carve out your own niche, but then if it is, we wouldn't have so many complaints ;)
If its easy to carve out a niche, then, it wouldn't be called a nichewe are back to status quo, where others would have that 'niche' of yours as well
-
Originally posted by Ah Chia:
All radical or far left.
There are only a few socialist and cuban news sites, no communist propaganda sites.
Below are communist propaganda websites:
http://www.mltoday.com
http://www.marxist.com
http://www.marxists.org
http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org
http://www.cpa.org.au/guardian/guardian.html
So??? They belong to the ultra-socialist or radical movement. -
I need to stress again.
This problem of not having enough population now can be directly linked to the "Stop at 2" policy.
From under population to over population.
Supporters of propoganda better think hard about this and the future potential problems.
It's not as simple as not being able to get on the MRT train in the morning because it is packed like sardines.
-
Originally posted by charlize:
I need to stress again.
This problem of not having enough population now can be directly linked to the "Stop at 2" policy.
From under population to over population.
Supporters of propoganda better think hard about this and the future potential problems.
It's not as simple as not being able to get on the MRT train in the morning because it is packed like sardines.
I think the problem is not under population, it is low population growth
Meaning not enough young people being created to fill in the gaps of the retirees and also to provide services/production to support a greying population because the elderly requires more services(medical, logistics) to sustain and they do not provide anything tangible back to the society since they no longer work.
I would even argue that stopping at 2 actually stop the problem from worsening.
China may have obtain its super power status by virtue of its 1.3 billion population. But because of its 1 child policy, they would face a demographic bomb a few decades from now.
-
Originally posted by charlize:
I need to stress again.
This problem of not having enough population now can be directly linked to the "Stop at 2" policy.
From under population to over population.
Supporters of propoganda better think hard about this and the future potential problems.
It's not as simple as not being able to get on the MRT train in the morning because it is packed like sardines.
there is a total paradigm shift in the era of stopping at 2 and now, nobody what the future lies. On the other hand, if we dun stop at 2, now we may have more old peoples around.
The problem with decline of birthrate today most people dun wan to get marry, or even get married, they are still childless, not to mention stopping at 2, as LKY said, if we can reproduce ourselves as two peoples producing two peoples, we are still ok, but we are producing less than 2 or none per couple. So that is the worrying part.
The decline of birthrate is mainly due to education where many believe in self sustain and forget that as a human, in term of science, we are also need to produce to maintain equilibrium in the homo saipan context. Secondly, most women are educated and they tends not to marry down but rather look toward freedom of life, sometime i told my galfrens and my aunties who is not marry as selfish people, then kenna scolding by them. Nobody wants to be like Mrs Piggy giving lots of childrens anymore. And our opposite gender are more worst, they tends to look for lower educated woman so that they can hv a chance to show their male chauvinism juice. And in the end they get those foreign wifeys or someone who dunno about their work and lifestyles. Furthermore, most look for fun before deciding to get marry, and as they aged, they just get a third world gal to be their wife cum maid.
Where ants can bite for their eggs, bird can die for their birdies and some fishes can die just to give birth and carry on the nature of decendants, we humans purposely stopped our producing and worst, throw our babies down rustbin or put in park or airport
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
there is a total paradigm shift in the era of stopping at 2 and now, nobody what the future lies. On the other hand, if we dun stop at 2, now we may have more old peoples around.
And we won't have more old people around when we increase the population to 6 million next time?
You still don't get it, do you?
-
Originally posted by charlize:
And we won't have more old people around when we increase the population to 6 million next time?
You still don't get it, do you?
me get it, it is you who dun get it? so what if population increase to 6 millions, it is beyong our control, the govt can do it utmost, but birthrate depends on you and many of us to produce, dun expect LKY to do it, he is old liao. And since we are not producing, we are just killing ourselves, there is no way out, even with foreigners here or not, we will still be perished in now time. In the meantime, enjoy what you have now and maybe another generation, the future is bleak, good luck. -
Originally posted by charlize:
And we won't have more old people around when we increase the population to 6 million next time?
You still don't get it, do you?
What you don't get it is that this is a worsening global problem and the best we can do is keep our head above the water and hope there would be a breakthrough either in society or technology.I dislike some of the PAP's policies, but pinning this on them is wrong.
-
no civilisation can survive without producing enough to overtake the current lots, the decision by the govt to allow immigrant is not going to be popular, we all knew it, but what can we do, the matter that we are all immigrant too, we just hope that these group of immigrant decendents will be a true Singaporeans like us.