Land without nation to nation without land.
Israel had all along accused me of bias and of making destruction relating to the occupation of Palestinian territories. I deny that I am biased, but rather insist that I have tried to be truthful in assessing the facts and relevant law. It is the character of the
occupation that gives rise to sharp criticism of Israel’s approach and attacks, especially its harsh blockade of Gaza, resulting in the collective punishment of the 1.5 million inhabitants. By attacking the observer rather than what is observed, Israel plays a clever mind game. It directs attention away from the realities of the occupation, practicing effectively a politics of distraction.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:Buy the theory that you are mentioning.
If the evidence supports it, why not?
New revelations in attack on American spy ship
Four decades later, many of the more than two dozen Liberty survivors located and interviewed by the Tribune cannot talk about the attack without shouting or weeping.
Their anger has been stoked by the declassification of government documents and the recollections of former military personnel, including some quoted in this article for the first time, which strengthen doubts about the U.S. National Security Agency's position that it never intercepted the communications of the attacking Israeli pilots -- communications, according to those who remember seeing them, that showed the Israelis knew they were attacking an American naval vessel...http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/
Nevermind that Israel had attacked USS Liberty.
Israel has compensated the US for the attack.
On December 17, 1987, the issue was officially closed by the two governments through an exchange of diplomatic notes.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:Becoz SOMEONE provoked them first...
Israel grabbed their land to set up state.
So who provoked who first?
This is also should be quite obvious.
But not to everyone, so I posted it here.
No lah, The Jews didn't grab land. It was still British territory then.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:Palestinians will be even more pissed off.
Wait. What is Palestinian?
Originally posted by Ah Chia:Don't you guys know why this conflict arose? It went back 2000yrs of history lorh...
"My god is better than yours..."
No, that is not the cause.
The cause is the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory.
Timeline pls.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:What propaganda?
Israel violated the truce with hamas by sending troops into Gaza to destroy tunnel.
What false propaganda?
now tell me this straight: WERE THERE ANY ROCKETS FIRED AT ISRAEL?
Yes, there were, according to below report:
Violence across the border broke out Nov. 4, when Israeli forces crossed into the Gaza Strip to destroy what the army said was a tunnel dug by Hamas in a plan to seize an Israeli soldier. Six gunmen were killed in the raid and militants responded with volleys of mortars and rockets into Israel...
The six-month truce began on 19th June 2008.
On the 24th June, three rockets were fired into Israel.
Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
This is the first violation of the truce.
Originally posted by Saroa20:For those of you who haven't been following along with the latest out of the occupied territories, the Gaza, and Israel, let me fill you in. Israel, in response to rocket attacks out of the Gaza has shut off fuel, electricity and water to the Gaza, in effect punishing the entire population, most of which have not committed any acts of violence towards Israel.
There have been many discussions about the Palestinians wanting to wipe Israel off the map, yet when one looks at the map of the region, it is in fact the Palestinians who are being driven "off the map", and the United States has done nothing to condemn what is seen by many as collective punishment or even ethnic cleansing.
The 2 parties are not equal, we always hear in the news “ both parties should stop "Comparison is not valid" we should look at the bigger picture it’s a rock against a tank, apache helicopters, grenades, International media and the list goes on.
Things like 9/11 happen daily in Palestine only like 10X more inhuman all due to American funds... From this view it is quite simple to see the injustice.
Palestine Moslems and Christians were driven out of their homes whole families and tribes just to make room for the Jews I don’t see how its fair and yes the reason behind the west supporting is both a tactical military point of view and also the fundamental conservatives the religious right if you will who believe that Jesus will descend there...!!!!!!........it’s a sad situation....yet no remedy for the people of Palestine.
For Humanity regardless of the nature of people, we can help them by spreading the photos over the Internet. We can do it at home and this is the simplest.
Thank you all
Don't drag the Christians into the conflict with the Jews. Some Jews are also Chrisitans.
Christians living in Gaza are frequently harassed by the Muslims. That's the fact.
To be fair, some Gazan Muslims are not hostile towards the Chrisitans.
This Ah Chia is just biased against Jews and the existence of the Jewish state.
I am opposed to the israeli occupation of palestinian territory and their oppression and war crimes against Palestinians.
I am not anti-jewish.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:I am opposed to the israeli occupation of palestinian territory and their oppression and war crimes against Palestinians.
I am not anti-jewish.
Then just create one thread. Why do you need to create so many?!
Don't tell me Palestinians(some extremist sectors) did not do war crimes(shelling of Israel border cities)...
Why do you need to create so many?!
I didn't create any threads regarding Israel so far.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:Why do you need to create so many?!
I didn't create any threads regarding Israel so far.
Ok. Wadeva. You hog practically every anti-Zionist thread. Do you not know if there are any people with Jewish ancestory here?! People take it personally. I do.
People take it personally. I do.
I didn't make any remarks against jews.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:People take it personally. I do.
I didn't make any remarks against jews.
You are questioning the Jewish right to exist. Jewish people have Israel and its territories in their hearts. You are indirectly refering to Jews as a whole. If you deny them their homeland, you are denying the Jewish existence. I seriously question whether you are a Neo-Nazi sympathiser.
Originally posted by Saroa20:Israel had all along accused me of bias and of making destruction relating to the occupation of Palestinian territories. I deny that I am biased, but rather insist that I have tried to be truthful in assessing the facts and relevant law. It is the character of the
occupation that gives rise to sharp criticism of Israel’s approach and attacks, especially its harsh blockade of Gaza, resulting in the collective punishment of the 1.5 million inhabitants. By attacking the observer rather than what is observed, Israel plays a clever mind game. It directs attention away from the realities of the occupation, practicing effectively a politics of distraction.
Israel accuse you of being biased? I read the first line and i was like what the fuck...
You are questioning the Jewish right to exist.
Jews can exist.
I didn't say jews can't exist.
If you deny them their homeland, you are denying the Jewish existence.
I support jews going to their homeland, but not to set up state and drive out palestinians.
Like someone go to your house and drive you out and set up his own house, I also won't support.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:You are questioning the Jewish right to exist.
Jews can exist.
I didn't say jews can't exist.
If you deny them their homeland, you are denying the Jewish existence.
I support jews going to their homeland, but not to set up state and drive out palestinians.
Like someone go to your house and drive you out and set up his own house, I also won't support.
So you trying to say there should be a second Holocaust in the Middle East to exterminate the Jews in Israel, drive them out of Israel(a sovereign state)?!
the sins of the Israelis do not exonerate the Palestinians of theirs..
the way forward if the idiots there want and deserve peace, is to stop the fighting...
if the bloody Palestinians can stop being stupid asses and stop fricken firing rockets into Israel, they will have the moral high ground... but currently, it seems like both sides are digging as fast as they can to get the moral low ground
and the Israelis can stop using knee-jerk massive retaliation each time the stupids from Gaza fire rockets in, they should just show the world instead of sending in F16s to pound the site..
maybe after each gives a little, peace has a chance..
but from what i see, both sides don't deserve peace.. not by a long shot
So you trying to say there should be a second Holocaust in the Middle East to exterminate the Jews in Israel, drive them out of Israel(a sovereign state)?!
Just end occupation of palestinian territory, go back to pre-1967 borders and stop oppressing people.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:So you trying to say there should be a second Holocaust in the Middle East to exterminate the Jews in Israel, drive them out of Israel(a sovereign state)?!
Just end occupation of palestinian territory, go back to pre-1967 borders and stop oppressing people.
how about Jordan and Egypt also give the Palestinians back "their land" too?
Originally posted by Ah Chia:So you trying to say there should be a second Holocaust in the Middle East to exterminate the Jews in Israel, drive them out of Israel(a sovereign state)?!
Just end occupation of palestinian territory, go back to pre-1967 borders and stop oppressing people.
As I said earlier, do you really think the other Arab nations will still recognise Israel or even have a truce with Israel even if the Jewish state moves back to the pre-1967 borders? The answer is no.
The violence will still go on. Extremists will still target the Jewish state.
As I said earlier, do you really think the other Arab nations will still recognise Israel or even have a truce with Israel even if the Jewish state moves back to the pre-1967 borders? The answer is no.
Official translation of the full text of a Saudi-inspired peace plan adopted by the Arab summit in Beirut, 2002.
The Arab Peace Initiative
The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session,
Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government,
Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel,
Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:
1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.
2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:
I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.
II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194.
III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.
3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:
I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.
II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.
4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.
5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity.
6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative.
7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union.
For purposes of comparison, the following is an earlier draft discussed by Arab foreign ministers on 25 March, 2002, in advance of the summit:
The Council of the Arab League, which convenes at the level of a summit on March 27-28, 2002 in Beirut, affirms the Arab position that achieving just and comprehensive peace is a strategic choice and goal for the Arab states.
After the Council heard the statement of Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz in which he called for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, and that Israel declares its readiness to withdraw from the occupied Arab territories in compliance with United Nations resolutions 242 and 338 and Security Council resolution 1397, enhanced by the Madrid conference and the land-for-peace principle, and the acceptance of an independent, sovereign Palestinian state with al-Quds al-Sharif as its capital, the Council calls on the Israeli government to review its policy and to resort to peace while declaring that just peace is its strategic option.
The Council also calls on Israel to assert the following:
Complete withdrawal from the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including full withdrawal from the occupied Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied parts of south Lebanon to the June 4, 1967 lines.
To accept to find an agreed, just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees in conformity with Resolution 194.
To accept an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian lands occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and with Jerusalem (al-Quds al-Sharif) as its capital in accordance with Security Council Resolution 1397.
In return, the Arab states assert the following:
To consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over and to enter into a peace treaty with Israel to consolidate this.
To achieve comprehensive peace for all the states of the region.
To establish normal relations within the context of comprehensive peace with Israel.
The Council calls on the Israeli government and the Israelis as a whole to accept this initiative to protect the prospects of peace and to spare bloodshed so as to enable the Arab states and Israel to coexist side by side and to provide for the coming generations a secure, stable and prosperous future.
It calls on the international community with all its organisations and states to support the initiative.
The Council calls on its presidency, its secretary general and its follow-up committee to follow up on the special contacts related to this initiative and to support it on all levels, including the United Nations, the United States, Russia, the European Union and the Security Council.
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm
Originally posted by Ah Chia:As I said earlier, do you really think the other Arab nations will still recognise Israel or even have a truce with Israel even if the Jewish state moves back to the pre-1967 borders? The answer is no.
Official translation of the full text of a Saudi-inspired peace plan adopted by the Arab summit in Beirut, 2002.
The Arab Peace Initiative
The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session,
1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.
2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:
3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:
4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.
5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity.
6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative.
7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union.
For purposes of comparison, the following is an earlier draft discussed by Arab foreign ministers on 25 March, 2002, in advance of the summit:
The Council of the Arab League, which convenes at the level of a summit on March 27-28, 2002 in Beirut, affirms the Arab position that achieving just and comprehensive peace is a strategic choice and goal for the Arab states.
After the Council heard the statement of Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz in which he called for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, and that Israel declares its readiness to withdraw from the occupied Arab territories in compliance with United Nations resolutions 242 and 338 and Security Council resolution 1397, enhanced by the Madrid conference and the land-for-peace principle, and the acceptance of an independent, sovereign Palestinian state with al-Quds al-Sharif as its capital, the Council calls on the Israeli government to review its policy and to resort to peace while declaring that just peace is its strategic option.
The Council also calls on Israel to assert the following:
Complete withdrawal from the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including full withdrawal from the occupied Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied parts of south Lebanon to the June 4, 1967 lines.
To accept to find an agreed, just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees in conformity with Resolution 194.
To accept an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian lands occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and with Jerusalem (al-Quds al-Sharif) as its capital in accordance with Security Council Resolution 1397.
In return, the Arab states assert the following:
To consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over and to enter into a peace treaty with Israel to consolidate this.
To achieve comprehensive peace for all the states of the region.
To establish normal relations within the context of comprehensive peace with Israel.
The Council calls on the Israeli government and the Israelis as a whole to accept this initiative to protect the prospects of peace and to spare bloodshed so as to enable the Arab states and Israel to coexist side by side and to provide for the coming generations a secure, stable and prosperous future.
It calls on the international community with all its organisations and states to support the initiative.
The Council calls on its presidency, its secretary general and its follow-up committee to follow up on the special contacts related to this initiative and to support it on all levels, including the United Nations, the United States, Russia, the European Union and the Security Council.
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm
And what makes you think they will abide by these things above?
Iran is not in the Arab League, and they are a muslim state bent on destroying Israel.
Originally posted by Ah Chia:As I said earlier, do you really think the other Arab nations will still recognise Israel or even have a truce with Israel even if the Jewish state moves back to the pre-1967 borders? The answer is no.
Official translation of the full text of a Saudi-inspired peace plan adopted by the Arab summit in Beirut, 2002.
The Arab Peace Initiative
The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session,
1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.
2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:
3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:
4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.
5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity.
6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative.
7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union.
For purposes of comparison, the following is an earlier draft discussed by Arab foreign ministers on 25 March, 2002, in advance of the summit:
The Council of the Arab League, which convenes at the level of a summit on March 27-28, 2002 in Beirut, affirms the Arab position that achieving just and comprehensive peace is a strategic choice and goal for the Arab states.
After the Council heard the statement of Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz in which he called for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, and that Israel declares its readiness to withdraw from the occupied Arab territories in compliance with United Nations resolutions 242 and 338 and Security Council resolution 1397, enhanced by the Madrid conference and the land-for-peace principle, and the acceptance of an independent, sovereign Palestinian state with al-Quds al-Sharif as its capital, the Council calls on the Israeli government to review its policy and to resort to peace while declaring that just peace is its strategic option.
The Council also calls on Israel to assert the following:
Complete withdrawal from the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including full withdrawal from the occupied Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied parts of south Lebanon to the June 4, 1967 lines.
To accept to find an agreed, just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees in conformity with Resolution 194.
To accept an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian lands occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and with Jerusalem (al-Quds al-Sharif) as its capital in accordance with Security Council Resolution 1397.
In return, the Arab states assert the following:
To consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over and to enter into a peace treaty with Israel to consolidate this.
To achieve comprehensive peace for all the states of the region.
To establish normal relations within the context of comprehensive peace with Israel.
The Council calls on the Israeli government and the Israelis as a whole to accept this initiative to protect the prospects of peace and to spare bloodshed so as to enable the Arab states and Israel to coexist side by side and to provide for the coming generations a secure, stable and prosperous future.
It calls on the international community with all its organisations and states to support the initiative.
The Council calls on its presidency, its secretary general and its follow-up committee to follow up on the special contacts related to this initiative and to support it on all levels, including the United Nations, the United States, Russia, the European Union and the Security Council.
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm
What makes you think there will be no more rocket attacks by extremist groups(not governments/states) into Israel's pre 1967 territory or harming of Israelis even if Israel moves back into its pre 1967 borders?!