A group of people now own USA
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
lets say US government and US Federal Reserve printed hell of lots of money to top up the loss made by US commercial banks. US banks are kept solvent, safe and sound. But tax payers bankrupt in the process. in the end, US banks will still lose money because they rely on the public ie Americans' deposit base ie money base to make the interest rate spreads and commissions. If tax payers are bankrupt, the banks will still lose money.
what we have now is a Lose, Lose situation if the US government continues its relentless bailouts.
More crap, how does it make individual tax payers, the "tax payers bankrupt in the process"?
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sold the banks CDS is akin to selling puts on corporate bonds and mortgages etc. not the usual insurance ie general or life insurance that you might be thinking of !!
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
what the world needs is a grand assembly of, not politicians, not central banks, but counterparties ie hedge funds, banks and other financial institutions in all these enormous derivatives trades to agree that no one take enormous profit ie net out all the contracts in a socially responsible manner.
What stupid crap, if you want to play derivatives, you expect to lose and if you cannot expect to win, play for fark?
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
sold the banks CDS is akin to selling puts on corporate bonds and mortgages etc. not the usual insurance ie general or life insurance that you might be thinking of !!
another stupid crapz......and if people ask you to back up your stupid statement you will say:
"it is so commonly known that you are expected to know."?
OMG!!!!
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it is your type of mentality that Obama is appealing to : make sacrifices for the whole.
yes. some hedge fund managers and counter-parties have this mentality: why should i give up my profits for the nation, for the world. all of the rest can go to hell for all i care.
100% capitalist has no morals.
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you are again hiding behind rude statements to hide your nearly total ignorance.
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
it is your type of mentality that Obama is appealing to : make sacrifices for the whole.
yes. some hedge fund managers and counter-parties have this mentality: why should i give up my profits for the nation, for the world. all of the rest can go to hell for all i care.
100% capitalist has no morals.
You have totally no idea what caused the problems and you go on a delusional trip imagining hwat caused it and when people ask you to back up your statements you say crapz like "it is so commonly known that you are expected to know."
Worse, you actually propose a "solution" to the imaginary causes!!!???
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do you know what is JP Morgan's exposure to credit derivatives?
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
do you know what is JP Morgan's exposure to credit derivatives?
You have something to say, just say it, but make sure it is not some rubbish enamating from your delusional imaginings.
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
you are again hiding behind rude statements to hide your nearly total ignorance.
I dun think he is ignorant for these things are such common knowledge that anyone who constantly read the papers will know but just unconstructive .....
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
to nolveltie: At the simplest… Every mother son that has us money owns a piece of USA… And because the US dollar is recognised worldwide, owns a piece of the world. If you have 1 cent you own a very small piece
A lot of people are in net debts actually ... So they are owned by others then ? -
Originally posted by Ice Dive:
I dun think he is ignorant for these things are such common knowledge that anyone who constantly read the papers will know but just unconstructive .....
You are just...another delusional idiot that talks big and cannot even produce a shread of evidence to support what you claim is supposedly all over the papers and is "common knowledge that anyone who constantly read the papers will know" .
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
it is your type of mentality that Obama is appealing to : make sacrifices for the whole.
yes. some hedge fund managers and counter-parties have this mentality: why should i give up my profits for the nation, for the world. all of the rest can go to hell for all i care.
100% capitalist has no morals.
However , I hope that they have other plans which will surface at the later stage that will take the benefits away and change the balance of power from bank, which could be done as long as both the govt ( by regulation ) and the people remenber the greed of the people in this industry.Hi , there is something different from derivatives contracts and CDS . You got a example ?
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Originally posted by Ice Dive:
A lot of people are in net debts actually ... So they are owned by others then ?Ask me for fark? Am I the one that started this ridiculous topic about a group of people owning the USA?
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Ask me for fark? Am I the one that started this ridiculous topic about a group of people owning the USA?
Wah Kao .......You are the person who made the statement in this topic .. I dun ask you .. I ask who ...!!!!!!!!!!!??????? -
Originally posted by Ice Dive:
Wah Kao .......You are the person who made the statement in this topic .. I dun ask you .. I ask who ...!!!!!!!!!!!???????What did I say?
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:to nolveltie: At the simplest… Every mother son that has us money owns a piece ofUSA… And because the US dollar is recognised worldwide, owns a piece of the world. If you have 1 cent you own a very small piece
What did you ask?
Originally posted by Ice Dive:
A lot of people are in net debts actually ... So they are owned by others then ?So how did you end up asking me if people that are in net debt "are owned by others then ?"
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CDS is an OTC derivatives contract which normally expires more than one year and less than 5 years. read about news last year from politicians in Singapore and other major countries that the current crisis is expected to end around 2010 to 2011? it could be because after the problem became serious in 2008, CDS trading nearly halted. but the pervailing and latest ones were those entered in 2007. so by 2010 to 2011, the bulk of CDS would expire and logically financial crisis should end.
credit derivatives structured into complex instruments is the main problem. pricing credit derivatives under widening credit spreads and no liquidity is difficult because structurers made them so complex. now it is not priced using models. it is quoted like junk prices, lay long lay long. 30 cents to the dollar offered, 10 cents bid.
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the bottomline is who made profits and who pay for the losses.
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Daddy you talk too much financial terms only some ppl can understand. I translate for you with a simple example... John buys a house for $100,000 in America. Every year he pays $10 in instalments for the next 10 years. The loan company sells the loan to a bank which put under assets $100,000. Now, somebody in the bank has a bright idea. Why not let people speculate on whether John can repay back the full loan in 10 years? So they break the 10 year loan up and sell pieces of it to other people like this. Grade A John Derivative - loan repayments by John in the first two years. Grade B John Derivative - loan repayments by John in year 3-5 Grade C John Derivative - loan repayments by John in year 5-10 Since its common sense that the longer the time frame, the more higher the chance of John defaulting on the loan. Its good since everyone makes money from poor John and people that buy the securitised mortage credit backed derivatives. But what happens when John and millions of people like him default on their loans? Everyone down the line that made money off John gets burnt with the exception of the loan company that directly lent the money to John and quickly packaged it off for sales. SUMMARY The bottomline is that lots of people made money and lots of people got burnt. There are hundreds of small loan companies, most banks also offer credit directly. Its very unlikely that anyone profited tremendously, so just take it as a pinch of salt. :lol:
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Woo ... Learn something today ... more worth it after vomitting blood from reading someones post ... haha....
My knowlegde of derivatives is only options ( and got burnt a bit ) and a bit on futures . I never know CDS is also under it .
Thanks
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responding to bear's post. what you described was mortgage securisation into mortgage backed securities. and the leverage is one to one. however, data suggests otherwise. the derivatives / country's worth is about 3 times. in other words, there is lots of leveraged trades. and OTC derivatives trading are in the hands of a few institutional IB and ISDA has the records of these few institutional IBs and most of their OTC derivatives trades.
hence, we have a situation of huge leverage in the hands of a few.
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1 to 1 make things simple so ppl can understand :). Of course people will profit everywhere down the line so end up for the $100k value of loan, maybe if you compile the total profit of hundreds of ppl profiting from it, it becomes $300k. Still don't see how it is a few people...
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Sure, if you people want to believe that "A group of people now own USA" based on somebody's delusional imaginings that is not even backed up with one iota of evidence, good luck to you.
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Andrew, normally I read your posts and they often make sense, but you're senselessly bashing some people now.
Check these 2 youtube videos out. same video - 2 parts :
makes complete sense!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvMh73WflQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GxIUhd1pAk
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Originally posted by spade1:
Andrew, normally I read your posts and they often make sense, but you're senselessly bashing some people now.
Check these 2 youtube videos out. same video - 2 parts :
makes complete sense!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvMh73WflQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GxIUhd1pAk
Which part of it was "senseless"? The part where I asked for evidences, facts and basis for the statements that were thrown around carelessly in this thread?
Take this crap for example:
Originally posted by Ice Dive:I dun think he is ignorant for these things are such common knowledge that anyone who constantly read the papers will know but just unconstructive .....
He said that " these things are such common knowledge" and a few posts down he says "I never know CDS is also under it ."!
Originally posted by Ice Dive:Woo ... Learn something today ... more worth it after vomitting blood from reading someones post ... haha....
My knowlegde of derivatives is only options ( and got burnt a bit ) and a bit on futures . I never know CDS is also under it .
Thanks
So what happened? How is it that something that he claimed is "common knowledge" he " I never know CDS is also under it ."?So when thread starter says:Originally posted by Daddy!!:it is so commonly known that you are expected to know.
You can also expect him to say:
" I never know "
Why? He has not provided any sort of evidence and produced any facts to back up what he said!!!
He claims that it is "common" knowledge, but to me it is delusional imaginings that is in his head as long as he does not produce something valid to back up what he says.