Wages and cost of living relation, what went wrong...
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MVC Component
MVC component. Really just another silly tool that complicates HR matters.
Assuming you earn $3000.00, and part of it, let's say, $300 is MVC component, so what? What is the point of that? You are still getting $3000 per month, the worker doesn't CARE whether how much is MVC. Your salary is $3000, PERIOD.
Bonus, on the other hand, is different. You can freeze bonuses, and the worker knows what it is, coz bonus is never a guarantee. MVC is just saying that $300 is something like a bonus, and yet it's not a bonus, thereby complicating matters.
And when companies execute a pay cut, they don't care how much of a MVC you have. Companies determine a pay cut mostly on a broad scale in order to make things simple. So they can choose to cut the pay of those who are earning less by, say 5%, and managers by, say 15%.
At no point in time, do they care, how much MVC you have. EVERY single employee's MVC is DIFFERENT (based on their salary movements). Therefore, cutting pay using MVC is a heavily complex method that will tax your HR staff to the max.
Companies cut a percentage, and do not care if they eat part, all of your MVC, or even impact your base pay.
So, I am still waiting for angel7030 to substantiate her stand that MVC helps companies and save jobs. Based on my years of experience, most companies DON'T CARE.
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Actually as far as I know, I don't think many companies are using this variable component thing.
You are right in saying your monthly pay is your monthly pay. The variable part is actually your bonus which even before this variable thing came along, is already variable anyway and dependent on company whether they want to give you 1 month or 5 months.
They can come up with all sorts of equations stating you reduce this or increase that during a recession, but at the end of the day, everybody knows it's just for show. If this was working, then why did they come with the recent job credit scheme?
Who in HR can comment on this or whose company is practising this variable component thing?
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Originally posted by Ice Dive:
I believe employer does not want minimum wage while employee does .
But if the mini wage is set and the whole chuck of people talking here are above the mini wage then how ... If it benefit the foreigners working here more than the singaporeans ... a lot more people who are anti immigrants are going to roar ...
It's not about the foreigners benefiting from the minimum wage system
It's about implementing the Foreign Talent Policy CORRECTLY.
Singapore imports foreigners and calls every one of them a talent. You tell me that is the right thing or not.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Actually as far as I know, I don't think many companies are using this variable component thing.
You are right in saying your monthly pay is your monthly pay. The variable part is actually your bonus which even before this variable thing came along, is already variable anyway and dependent on company whether they want to give you 1 month or 5 months.
They can come up with all sorts of equations stating you reduce this or increase that during a recession, but at the end of the day, everybody knows it's just for show. If this was working, then why did they come with the recent job credit scheme?
Who in HR can comment on this or whose company is practising this variable component thing?
Hi charlize,
you don't need a HR personnel to tell you more.
You look at the papers and read about those pay cuts. Pay cuts are determined and fixed across-the-board for each group determined by the company. For instance, if you are an executive, your pay cut is n%. If you are a manager, your pay cut is m%.
This already show that the companies executing those pay cuts do not care about MVC, because its more practical to implement an across-the-board pay-cut either based on:
- Career Level you are on (Manager, executive, non-executive, etc)
- The dept you are in
- The country in which you are working in (for MNCs)
The above already shows that MVC is never part of their consideration, because it doesnt' make sense. EVERY person's MVC component is different, because EVERY person's salary movement is unique. Executing a pay cut based on a person's MVC component is too complicated.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Hi charlize,
you don't need a HR personnel to tell you more.
You look at the papers and read about those pay cuts. Pay cuts are determined and fixed across-the-board for each group determined by the company. For instance, if you are an executive, your pay cut is n%. If you are a manager, your pay cut is m%.
This already show that the companies executing those pay cuts do not care about MVC, because its more practical to implement an across-the-board pay-cut either based on:
- Career Level you are on (Manager, executive, non-executive, etc)
- The dept you are in
- The country in which you are working in (for MNCs)
The above already shows that MVC is never part of their consideration, because it doesnt' make sense. EVERY person's MVC component is different, because EVERY person's salary movement is unique. Executing a pay cut based on a person's MVC component is too complicated.
No minister or MP has mentioned this variable component thing since the recession began.
I can safely surmise that you could be right, this VC thing is almost non existent in sg companies.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Somebody came up with this quote (I wonder who was the original person who thought of this):
Singaporeans cannot have minimum wage to remain competitive.
Ministers need to have minimum wage to remain competitive.
Haha ... thumbs up !....
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Originally posted by Ice Dive:
Haha ... thumbs up !....
I have to mention this is not an original quote from me.
I read it in sgforums somewhere before.
So thumbs up to the original person who thought of this.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Somebody came up with this quote (I wonder who was the original person who thought of this):
Singaporeans cannot have minimum wage to remain competitive.
Ministers need to have minimum wage to remain competitive.
Its is because they argue that they need top $$ to attract the best people and the issue of state secrets.
What they do not realise is that there are top people out there who wants to do civil service. These people are genuinely interested in serving the nation. Dont u ever tell me Rudd is stupid for becoming prime minister when he can be paid top $$$ if he works in ANZ or NAB. It is because one is alinged to one's social principles in their lives which drives them.
Paying top $$$ to attract talent may get u people who have a money motive in mind. And money spent on them will be wasted.
Attracting people based on their interests will get u genuine people willing to excel. Then implement progressive wage increase to retain this group of people with regard to performance. this is a sure way to weed out underperformers.
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on a side note:
A lack of min wage with a meritocratic selection process in the workforce will not work. The competitiveness involved in this will bring about the backstabbings, jealousy and other negative emotions because workers are not satisfied psychologically.
Presence of min wage with a meritocratic selection process has been shown to work in Australia. it also brings about willingess to improve and compete and at the same time keeping the workers satisfied psychologically.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
...It's not about the foreigners benefiting from the minimum wage system It's about implementing the Foreign Talent Policy CORRECTLY. Singapore imports foreigners and calls every one of them a talent. You tell me that is the right thing or not.
Singapore uses marketing gimmicks. The word Talent is used to describe any foreign worker even if he or she is a toilet cleaner is because it will make the foreign workers think that in this country , like Australia every job is a respectable job but in reality , it is a different scenario.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
MVC Component
MVC component. Really just another silly tool that complicates HR matters.
Assuming you earn $3000.00, and part of it, let's say, $300 is MVC component, so what? What is the point of that? You are still getting $3000 per month, the worker doesn't CARE whether how much is MVC. Your salary is $3000, PERIOD.
Bonus, on the other hand, is different. You can freeze bonuses, and the worker knows what it is, coz bonus is never a guarantee. MVC is just saying that $300 is something like a bonus, and yet it's not a bonus, thereby complicating matters.
And when companies execute a pay cut, they don't care how much of a MVC you have. Companies determine a pay cut mostly on a broad scale in order to make things simple. So they can choose to cut the pay of those who are earning less by, say 5%, and managers by, say 15%.
At no point in time, do they care, how much MVC you have. EVERY single employee's MVC is DIFFERENT (based on their salary movements). Therefore, cutting pay using MVC is a heavily complex method that will tax your HR staff to the max.
Companies cut a percentage, and do not care if they eat part, all of your MVC, or even impact your base pay.
So, I am still waiting for angel7030 to substantiate her stand that MVC helps companies and save jobs. Based on my years of experience, most companies DON'T CARE.
MVC, this shit just does not work. period.
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It doesn't take a smart person to know something is wrong when wages don't move hand in hand with the country's general cost of living.
In fact, they seem to be moving in opposite directions.
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Originally posted by charlize:
It doesn't take a smart person to know something is wrong when wages don't move hand in hand with the country's general cost of living.
In fact, they seem to be moving in opposite directions.
if it does in opposite directions, then the economy is a dud. The point of economy is to co relate with how we live and not destroy how we live.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
If u look at minimum wage system in Indonesia, it is a complete diseaster...singapore govt has never favor minimium wage system. As a country base on meritorcracy, wages are base on yr talents/certification, performances and market value.
If u set minimum wages, lots of companies is going to move out.
O.o it depends on which sector you're looking at and the position of the job.
Will setting a minimum wages for cleaners/kopi ah soh force the cleaning/kopitiam company to move out?
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Another excuse to grab more money from Singaporeans!!!! This time using foreigners they bring in by the throng as an excuse.
"Singapore to consider raising foreign workers' health insurance
SINGAPORE (March 31, 2009) : Singapore is considering a health insurance increase for foreign workers following the recent hospitalization of some workers whose medical bills had more than doubled the coverage, it was reported Monday.
Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan said he was considering increasing the foreign workers' insurance coverage, citing a case of a Filipino maid whose medical expenses rose to S$20,000, or four times the maximum.
The maid, who succumbed to tuberculosis, spent three weeks in intensive care unit of a local hospital.
The new coverage amount would depend on the level of increase in insurance premium, he told a local community meeting on Sunday.
Singapore had 757,000 foreign workers and maids last year, all of whom had compulsory health insurance coverage under the work-permit terms. The workers from Asia are mostly employed in the construction and services sectors. -- dpa"