singapore stance on sexuality: totally confused
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Originally posted by redDUST:
`yawn'...who gives a fug what wrinkled skin does....next time, if you want to pass a comment. keep it short,sweet and to the point.
your 2nd para is an excuse for you to write something that you fantasize...... issit?
you don't have to read my post.
å�ƒçš„苦ä¸è‹¦ï¼Œæ–¹ä¸ºäººä¸Šäººã€‚grow up.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
`yawn'...who gives a fug what wrinkled skin does....next time, if you want to pass a comment. keep it short,sweet and to the point.
your 2nd para is an excuse for you to write something that you fantasize...... issit?
you still fantasize?
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Strange how people thinks Gayness is contagious..LOL..
My childhood friend turned Gay... we play together.. share drinks.. eat same kacang .. when I still very innocent...now.. I no longer innocent..Why I still straight ah ?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Strange how people thinks Gayness is contagious..LOL..
My childhood friend turned Gay... we play together.. share drinks.. eat same kacang .. when I still very innocent...now.. I no longer innocent..Why I still straight ah ?
Thought sexual education was non existent in the past, yet boys still chase after girls without anyone teaching them.Cavemen and apes certainly learnt what holes to go for without anyone teaching them.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Strange how people thinks Gayness is contagious..LOL..
My childhood friend turned Gay... we play together.. share drinks.. eat same kacang .. when I still very innocent...now.. I no longer innocent..Why I still straight ah ?
u ish no longer innocent? harddisk corrupted liao or virus attack
?
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Originally posted by BotaHead:
u ish no longer innocent? harddisk corrupted liao or virus attack
?
Upgraded to duo core already ... old man.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
you still fantasize?
sorry, i not as free as you. what u expect? immediate reply, ah?you joker, you mean i can read your mind on what you post? of cos i need to read first to understand what other rancid thots you have....tofu say tofu lah...in the car this and that....
of cos, i puked after reading....
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Atheist, you only do a disservice to yourself and your cause when you launch personal attacks on the insignificant me and the honesty of my personal views, instead of making the effort to show the good points of your pro-gay and anti-God stance.
just wanted to show wat is your true stand and your bigotry impressions on homosexuals. I, and probably tons of other people here from different backgrounds, had already stated many of the obvious reasons why they feel your view is really... doing your group of people a dis-service. Wat points do u really have left ? Nothing u know. The only thing left for u to say is "I do not support gays publicising their lifestyle" instead from your earlier arguments on trying to prove how wicked and dieseased homosexuals r.
And I am just cutting your own words and paste it together. Why will tat be a personal attack unless u view your own words as shameful. Coming to personal attacks, no one can beat u in tis thread. U suggest kuali is stupid, state I am stubborn and thickhead, tell jojobeach he is egoistic etc.
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
just wanted to show wat is your true stand and your bigotry impressions on homosexuals. I, and probably tons of other people here from different backgrounds, had already stated many of the obvious reasons why they feel your view is really... doing your group of people a dis-service. Wat points do u really have left ? Nothing u know. The only thing left for u to say is "I do not support gays publicising their lifestyle" instead from your earlier arguments on trying to prove how wicked and dieseased homosexuals r.
And I am just cutting your own words and paste it together. Why will tat be a personal attack unless u view your own words as shameful. Coming to personal attacks, no one can beat u in tis thread. U suggest kuali is stupid, state I am stubborn and thickhead, tell jojobeach he is egoistic etc.
i've been called worse, really.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Sorry to disappoint your presumptous and inane theory about me, jojobeach. No, I had not been abused by gays before or at any other time.
I have nothing against humans who turned homosexual, so long as they KEEP TO THEMSELVES AND NOT PROMOTE THEIR LIFESTYLES OR FORCE THEIR VALUES ON US. But like all men of science, I believe that one should challenge the status quo of any vital theory, to source every viewpoint from both sides so as to be able to make an informed decision. More so with decisions that affect our society.
Thank you luce for your confidence in me, but personally, if that is a discrimination, then i believe more time should be given to consider it from all angles and more importantly, how it would affect our society as a whole, not just the few gays who insist on getting married. Once laws are made, revision will be difficult if not impossible, when errors and misjudgement surfaced. Lives may be lost in the meanwhile
Who I am or what I think personally is of no consequence, for alone I am insignificant. But more critical is what our society thinks and operates upon. In order to make a wise choice, it is only fair that they be given enough data to do so, without fear or favour, given coldly, clinically without the baggages of personal distaste for individual debater and with rationally or at least full honest personal beliefs, no matter which side one is on.
It may be too much to hope for, but we have to start somewhere, beginning with you and me, if we indeed do have care and concern for our society, thus the attempt with Kuali to see her side of view and hopefully more rationalities from both sides.
Will our society one day encourage homosexuality the way we encourage heterosexual unions, but like the perceptive TS had spoken, it may happen or it may not. But regardless its whichever eventuality, such decisions must be made upon a wise and majority based platform that only a society can make, of which i, an individual, am subject to respect just as everyone else.Dear dear stop saying you are insignificant and ergo, your views must be too. Granted you are one individual but society is made up of individuals is it not? Our society currently operates from a black box thinking that gays = social evil = breakdown of family unit = bad for Singapore. We tackling the fundamental assumption of the family unit. This monogamous heterosexual family unit may seem normal now, but it appears normal in sofar as it has been the standard as long as human memory can remember. Let's not deny that there have been a myriad of other family forms as others have mentioned here, the kibbutz, the onyi kty (spelling?) in Russia, and of course polygamous family units in some countries. What we see as normal is only because we have been conditioned to view it as thus.
I mean, it was only less than 50 years ago when Jim Crow laws were still in place and less than 100 years ago when women were denied the right to vote, education, owning property etc. If they had not "imposed their values" upon their society then, would change have come about? So what's all this about gradualism? I say, justice delayed is justice denied. Women having education certainly was not normal back in 1900 but today it sure is and for good reason. Societal expectations of normality have changed and will changed.
Parallelisms aside, regarding gay marriage - I forsee the argument that allowing gays a civil union or marriage would be tantamount to condoning it. And ah, our young impressionable green minds of our next generation would be taught to see that gay marriage is normal. Well, learning to be tolerant and to embrace others? Heaven forbid! More children will be encouraged to be gay. Well, I care not whether homosexuality is a lifestyle choice or whether one is born with it - I don't even believe that gayness is a discrete category one finds himself or herself in. Homosexuality is a spectrum upon which we all lie and exhibit varying degrees of. Our society draws the line between heterosexuality and homosexuality at whether man has sex with other men or women. But as someone rightly mentioned, even heterosexuals resort to sodomy under desperate conditions. So what really is homosexuality and heterosexuality? They are fluid identies, subject to flux.
There really is no right way out of this pickle. Just maybe live and let live and try to embrace diversity. Is it really so hard?
Yes I know I know, the family unit argument again.........
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i've been called worse, really.
How true, you incestous mother fucker! -
Originally posted by jojobeach:
Upgraded to duo core already ... old man.
my surname ish old but name not man lah, i ish call old macdonald.
old macdonald has a farm ....yi ya...yi ya...o
remember?
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Originally posted by BotaHead:
my surname ish old but name not man lah, i ish call old macdonald.
old macdonald has a farm ....yi ya...yi ya...o
remember?
Yah lah old mac.. as long as you happy . OK ? Good.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Yah lah old mac.. as long as you happy . OK ? Good.
cannot lah, still have somemore lah, still have to run around with that young girl lah.
and the jojo here and the jojo there...
jo here jo there, everywhere jojo...
so naughty de lah, feel like using the cane...nabel.
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Wait there's a difference between having sex with your own gender and being capable of only being attracted to someone from your own gender isn't it?
So what specifically does homosexual describe?
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Originally posted by la luce nella piazza:
Dear dear stop saying you are insignificant and ergo, your views must be too. Granted you are one individual but society is made up of individuals is it not? Our society currently operates from a black box thinking that gays = social evil = breakdown of family unit = bad for Singapore. We tackling the fundamental assumption of the family unit. This monogamous heterosexual family unit may seem normal now, but it appears normal in sofar as it has been the standard as long as human memory can remember. Let's not deny that there have been a myriad of other family forms as others have mentioned here, the kibbutz, the onyi kty (spelling?) in Russia, and of course polygamous family units in some countries. What we see as normal is only because we have been conditioned to view it as thus.
I mean, it was only less than 50 years ago when Jim Crow laws were still in place and less than 100 years ago when women were denied the right to vote, education, owning property etc. If they had not "imposed their values" upon their society then, would change have come about? So what's all this about gradualism? I say, justice delayed is justice denied. Women having education certainly was not normal back in 1900 but today it sure is and for good reason. Societal expectations of normality have changed and will changed.
Parallelisms aside, regarding gay marriage - I forsee the argument that allowing gays a civil union or marriage would be tantamount to condoning it. And ah, our young impressionable green minds of our next generation would be taught to see that gay marriage is normal. Well, learning to be tolerant and to embrace others? Heaven forbid! More children will be encouraged to be gay. Well, I care not whether homosexuality is a lifestyle choice or whether one is born with it - I don't even believe that gayness is a discrete category one finds himself or herself in. Homosexuality is a spectrum upon which we all lie and exhibit varying degrees of. Our society draws the line between heterosexuality and homosexuality at whether man has sex with other men or women. But as someone rightly mentioned, even heterosexuals resort to sodomy under desperate conditions. So what really is homosexuality and heterosexuality? They are fluid identies, subject to flux.
There really is no right way out of this pickle. Just maybe live and let live and try to embrace diversity. Is it really so hard?
Yes I know I know, the family unit argument again.........
hear hear...
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As far as I'm concerned on sexuality and the AWARE saga:
1) It was not right for the New Guard to take over AWARE. They were too many new members from the same church for people to believe that it would be objective
2) The Old Guard did not do better themselves. In the AGM meeting, their supporters behaved like holigans shouting the New Guard down when they wanted to speak. Uncivilized third world behaviour. Shame on you....
3) The media was slanted in their reporting. Even the government hinted at that. Why? Simple reason. Lets not kid ourselves. They are lots of gay in the media industry. Obviously they want to push their own agenda. Shame on the proffesionalism of our media industry. (As for some females in AWARE.......)
4) You can support homosexuality only if you are prepared to accept this if your own kids become like that. If not, don't support what you can't accept.
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Originally posted by Xenthar1:
As far as I'm concerned on sexuality and the AWARE saga:
1) It was not right for the New Guard to take over AWARE. They were too many new members from the same church for people to believe that it would be objective
2) The Old Guard did not do better themselves. In the AGM meeting, their supporters behaved like holigans shouting the New Guard down when they wanted to speak. Uncivilized third world behaviour. Shame on you....
3) The media was slanted in their reporting. Even the government hinted at that. Why? Simple reason. Lets not kid ourselves. They are lots of gay in the media industry. Obviously they want to push their own agenda. Shame on the proffesionalism of our media industry. (As for some females in AWARE.......)
4) You can support homosexuality only if you are prepared to accept this if your own kids become like that. If not, don't support what you can't accept.
What old guards or new guards, this are all our female aunties problems, imagine they cannot even make a stand on sexuality and still wants to counsel we the young gals ar??? Please lah, they already pass over liao. Me and my gal frens see already also want to laugh. Even Pros in Geyland behave better than them. -
Gay people don't prevent you from living your life normally. Gay people don't attempt to convert people to homosexuality.
On the other hand...
Straight people prevent gay people from living their lives normally. Straight people attempt to convert gay people to heterosexuality.
What's the big deal? Homophobia is as bad as racism. You're hating on a group of people because they're different; not because they hamper your life or affect you in a negative way.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that gay people's only goal is to be accepted for who they are, even if they are different. And here I thought we were living in a civilized society...
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Thank you for your valid views which may help more to comprehend.
1. As mentioned already to boring lengths, I am insignificant and so is what is offensive to my eyes. It is what is offensive to society that is critical. And you must readily admit Singapore is still a conservative society and are not ready to accept homosexuality.
The day may come that it will change, or it may not, but till then, to perform homosexual acts and actions in public is definately forcing our society - you, me, our families and friends to accept such values we may not be ready or prepared accept - without a more comprehensive and rational perception given by the pro-gay groups instead of mere and militant death threats.
2. How should they promote their lifestyle then? I trust and have faith in human ingenuity. If they could somehow prove without force that they are of no immediate threat to society and civilisation, then perceptions may change.
It may be an uphill battle, but if that is what it takes in their love and belief for such lifestyle, then it is a effort worth engaging in to them.
However, on the flip side, perhaps homosexuality is only a pyschological disorder and can be rectified thru counselling and help we as a society can offer?
3. We adults are already set in our ways thus it will be difficult to impose their homosexual values to us. It is OUR YOUNG that the penetrations ( pardon the pun) will be made, for our young are still naive and innocent.
How much time can we afford to overlook the affairs of our young while we are busy daily working to ensure we bring home the bacon? It's an excuse, but still the fact exists.
Are we to allow our young be subjected to such family destructive lifestyle? Are we responsible when the child spends at least 8 hrs in academic subjects and projects a day away from home, taught by flawed human teachers just as we are equally flawed humans? Or question the friends that they spent a significant portion of time they have to provide counter- counselling?
I know not the answer to my own points raised, but then it is my hope that whatever society has decided upon, it should be respected by all from both sides to maintain the status quo. Life already is as difficult as it is without the added threats from rising homosexual impositions and militancy. It must and need not be the way to go for a lifestyle to be included.
With this, I would like to make an exit, for I had express my views far more than I wish and know that it bores many. But I hope more may come out and share their honest views from both sides, without the ridicule heaped upon messengers/debaters.
Change and acceptance doesn't happen spontaneously. One day, totally out of the blue, people aren't going to decide that they want to accept gay people.
Change happens through rallies, protests, campaigns, etc. Discrimination against Black people in the United States only lessened after many (sometimes bloody) protests and demonstrations in the streets. Not that I want any violence, but my point is that change doesn't happen spontaneously, and you can't just depend on the next person to make it happen. Sometimes enlightening just one ignorant, homophobic fool helps.
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Originally posted by da-vid:
Change and acceptance doesn't happen spontaneously. One day, totally out of the blue, people aren't going to decide that they want to accept gay people.
Change happens through rallies, protests, campaigns, etc. Discrimination against Black people in the United States only lessened after many (sometimes bloody) protests and demonstrations in the streets. Not that I want any violence, but my point is that change doesn't happen spontaneously, and you can't just depend on the next person to make it happen. Sometimes enlightening just one ignorant, homophobic fool helps.
Who say we dun accept gays, just that the moral laws dun provide them the legal rights to marriage, that is all, even today, men and women live together but not legally marry. Gay must also tolerate the public view on them, they must understand that the public in singapore are not going against their life or action. But to put it into legal term will be another issue. If we dun accept gay, long long we would have voiced our displeasure and kick them out, but we are all living with gays here and there and everywhere but still dun bother about it, we do make frens with them too, and some are wonderful frens, so dun think we dun accept gays ya. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Who say we dun accept gays, just that the moral laws dun provide them the legal rights to marriage, that is all, even today, men and women live together but not legally marry. Gay must also tolerate the public view on them, they must understand that the public in singapore are not going against their life or action. But to put it into legal term will be another issue. If we dun accept gay, long long we would have voiced our displeasure and kick them out, but we are all living with gays here and there and everywhere but still dun bother about it, we do make frens with them too, and some are wonderful frens, so dun think we dun accept gays ya.Gay customers also customers, go and get more lor. Business is business.
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Originally posted by da-vid:
Change and acceptance doesn't happen spontaneously. One day, totally out of the blue, people aren't going to decide that they want to accept gay people.
Change happens through rallies, protests, campaigns, etc. Discrimination against Black people in the United States only lessened after many (sometimes bloody) protests and demonstrations in the streets. Not that I want any violence, but my point is that change doesn't happen spontaneously, and you can't just depend on the next person to make it happen. Sometimes enlightening just one ignorant, homophobic fool helps.
The person whom you're replying to does not want to be enlightened.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
The person whom you're replying to does not want to be enlightened.
Sigh...spare me the hints, my dear Kuali. I have no wish to dominate the thread like some others. But for your sake, i had posted one on the other thread. If you want, i can repost it here, but i rather not.
I am sure i am not the only one that has a voice. Many more out there, except that they may not express it well or as vocal as the gay lobby. Make no mistakes, it is not the most vocal that wins, it is reason and logic, and fortunately, our educated society today has more such people around that needs not fear militancy or radicalism, at the legislative level.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Sigh...spare me the hints, my dear Kuali. I have no wish to dominate the thread like some others. But for your sake, i had posted one on the other thread. If you want, i can repost it here, but i rather not.
I am sure i am not the only one that has a voice. Many more out there, except that they may not express it well or as vocal as the gay lobby. Make no mistakes, it is not the most vocal that wins, it is reason and logic, and fortunately, our educated society today has more such people around that needs not fear militancy or radicalism, at the legislative level.
Nothing's being hinted at, dahling, it's obvious who he's replying to. Back at yer over at the other thread.