Western democracy should just go to hell, LKY is Right
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
what business is his when he is a Malaysian? he has no right, no good reasons come here oppose people and tell people to get lost. his behaviour is absolutely uncalled for. We have every right to tell him to get lost since he is a foreigner.He is a sore loser la.
Sure .. he'd love to see Singaporeans migrate out of SG.. if we don't, he won't stand a chance getting his sorry ass in to SG...that's the kind foreigners we're keeping in SG ? Bummer..
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Sure .. he'd love to see Singaporeans migrate out of SG.. if we don't, he won't stand a chance getting his sorry ass in to SG...that's the kind foreigners we're keeping in SG ? Bummer..
this fellow just simply loves telling people off when he knows he is a malaysian without good reasons to do so.Singaporeans stay put here - he not happy. Singaporeans go overseas - he not happy. Probably he got PhD in fault finding.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Gedanken, if you fail to comprehend my post or prefer to close your eyes, then it is a loss of either yours or mine or both.
Thank you for your views. Everyone has opinions. Even a village idiot like the spiteful jojobeach has one.
But you and your kind's view are just what they are - opinions, or condemnation, that doesnt matter to us Singaporeans, more so on ones who had rejected our society.
You and your kind can talk all you want, till the cows come home, but it is us Singaporeans who will have to live with the consequences or the harvests of our choice we still freely make, without fear or favour, for the sake our own people whom we love and cherish, to make Singapore better unlike those who flee at the the slightest drawback or petty self inflicted irrationalities.
Tut tut tut. Do you have the slightest inkling how small your "your kind" argument makes you look? Why not rise above that?
Man, it really looks like you've sculled the whole keg of Kool-Aid all by yourself there. The whole "we're the first, best and last line of defence" bravado is really touching, but ultimately, what logical purpose does it serve?
Let me put it this way. You're in a 747 and engine #4's on fire. The control tower, looking from the outside, tells you that engine #4's on fire. You reply, "Butt out, if this plane explodes, it's my ass that will get burnt". You've stated the obvious, but how does that address your key problem, namely that your plane is burning?
Do grow up and realise that by focussing on who's saying something rather than what's being said, you're wasting time and energy while coming nowhere near dealing with the problem.
You need to ask yourself who's got his eyes closed here. I've cited figures from the Ministry of Manpower, but you've glossed over that to write those figures (from your own government, by the way) off as "opinion"? I'm assuming that you're smart enough to tell fact from opinion, and that being the case, the only explanation is that you're being too petty and defensive to acknowledge the fact that your government has reported: you're on fire, and that's not changed by whether it's me, your Uncle Harry or your fairy godmother who's telling you about it.
I honestly don't know who you're trying to impress with that song and dance about consequences and harvests, but please, for your own sake, take a step back and look at what you're doing. You're telling a couple of quitters about how important this is to you because you're going to sink with the ship, and in doing so you ironically and singularly fail to acknowledge your own allegation that quitters couldn't give a continental if you sank or not.
In the meantime, while you're pontificating and dramatising your Oscar-winning efforts to carry on the good fight, as it were, you do realise that, unlike the quitters you criticise, you haven't at any point actually said anything about how to do it? If memory serves me correctly, I believe the local patois for this phenomenon is "chut si peh juay pattern".
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Do grow up and realise that by focussing on who's saying something rather than what's being said, you're wasting time and energy while coming nowhere near dealing with the problem.
"Do grow up and realise that by focussing on who's saying something rather than what's being said, you're wasting time and energy while coming nowhere near dealing with the problem." - GedankanAnd you, a foreigner, an outsider, with no stakes in my country, surviving there regardless whether we live or die, do?
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
And you, a foreigner, an outsider, with no stakes in my country, surviving there regardless whether we live or die, do?
Read my posts in this thread - I've already spoken more about the challenges than you have.
You're assuming that I have no stake in Singapore. Even though it's base, I suspect that my financial stake in Singapore would quite readily outstrip yours. As much as you claim I have abandoned the place, rest assured that I'm still making more of a contribution without even thinking about it.
By the way, just to let you know how much of a foreigner I am, I'll bet you a nice bottle of red that even after all these years I'll have a lot less trouble getting through the gates of Hendon Camp than you ever would getting into Chevrons. Don't try that childish game about who's dick is bigger in Singapore. I can pretty much guarantee that you'll lose.
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to socialist:
democracy was made thousands of years ago by great thinkers..........who is anyone to force the evolution of things overnight after thousands of years.
he is like anyone a mere mortal.........only human.
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Originally posted by MINIGUN2000:
democracy was made thousands of years ago by great thinkers..........who is anyone to force the evolution of things overnight after thousands of years.
Well dayum, son. You just went right up in my estimation.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Read my posts in this thread - I've already spoken more about the challenges than you have.
You're assuming that I have no stake in Singapore. Even though it's base, I suspect that my financial stake in Singapore would quite readily outstrip yours. As much as you claim I have abandoned the place, rest assured that I'm still making more of a contribution without even thinking about it.
By the way, just to let you know how much of a foreigner I am, I'll bet you a nice bottle of red that even after all these years I'll have a lot less trouble getting through the gates of Hendon Camp than you ever would getting into Chevrons. Don't try that childish game about who's dick is bigger in Singapore. I can pretty much guarantee that you'll lose.
By all means justify your ego. I will no go down the road of using vulgar insults as replacement for the lack of reason and logic you foreigner had lost and use.
It's the silent readers here who will have to determine what had been written here. You, as a self centred person, had failed to realize that fact in your pathetic attempts to inflate your sorely bruised ego.
Once again, thanks for your view, and like the analogy of the burning engine aircraft you used, the pilot will natural return the courtesy of your view, but it will still be the actions of the pilot that will determine whether his passengers survive or die. Most definately he will shut off the fuel supply to the engine and look for a safest spot for an emergency landing.
It's his actions, not the control tower folks, who will save lives. They can comment all they want, constructively or derogatively, but it will be pilot and his passengers who will live with the crisis and find solutions to it.
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yer estimation was incorrect initially??
see!!!evryone including u make mistakes!
SO WHAT IS THIS???WHATS THIS HERE???I DUN SEE THE SOLUTION TO CREATE A BETTER SINGAPORE!!ALL I SEE ARE PEOPLE FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES!!
WHO WILL SOLVE THE JOB PROBLEMS EVEN WHEN ECONOMY IS GOOD.....
WHO WILL SOLVE THE CONTINOUS BAD INVESTMENTS AND POOR EFFICIENT USE OF COUNTRYS RESERVES????
PRESENT GOVERNMNET PEOPLE AT TOP ARE OUT OF TUNE AND NEEEDS RECALIBRATION IF POSSIBLE!
PRESENTLY TO ME,THEY SEEM LIKE A GUY WHO IS SOOOO RICH UNTIL HE CAN BUY AN EMPTY TIN BOX FROM SWITZERLAND!TOO MUCH MONEY...N DUNNO HOW N WHEN TO SPEND!
GOVERNMENT OF SINGAPORE HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY.....VERY SAD FOR ALL SINGAPOREANS!
AND CAN YOU STOP BITCHIN N FIGHTIN AMONGST YERSELVES JUST BECAUSE YER SLIPPER IS BETTER QUALITY THAN THE OTHER PERSON!
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
It's his actions, not the control tower folks, who will save lives. They can comment all they want, constructively or derogatively, but it will be pilot and his passengers who will live with the crisis and find solutions to it.
There we go - you're finally starting to see that there's no sense talking about anything other than the nature of the problem and ...
Oh, hang on. You weren't talking about yourself, were you?
It's not a case of ego for me. You're the one who assumed I had no stake in Singapore, but now you're throwing your toys out of your pram when I put it to you that even from 6000 kilometres away I still have more invested in Singapore than you do, and not just in a monetary sense. Between Club 30 and the Singapore Armed Forces forums here, there are more than enough people who know me in person who would know how wrong you are. I'm sad that your fragile little ego can't accommodate the fact that this is possible, but that really is your problem to deal with. All the best with that, and when all else fails, there's Prozac.
You deserve a pat on the head for keeping your language clean, I suppose, but your calling jojobeach the village idiot makes it much more probable that you're simply too *ahem* genteel to use vulgarities - the intent certainly is not absent.
As for being lacking in reason and logic, may I suggest that you again look in the mirror and see how little substance you've actually provided to the discussion. In contrast, look back a couple of pages and you'll see what I've had to say about the nature of the problem, namely that while a high level of control was warranted for the first twenty years of Singapore's independence, the period after that demanded a relaxation of that grip for Singapore to grow intellectually and creatively, in anticipation for the time when Singapore's economy grew to the point where it could no longer compete with other countries for the manufacturing market. All the reasoning and logic you rail about is here, and I reiterate that whether it comes from me, Harry or Santa Claus, it's a point directly pertinent to the state of affairs that you have to date steadfastly sidestepped.
Now, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to agree with it, show that it's all rubbish or, as you have been doing so far, dodge it alotgether and ramble on about your fallacious theories about my not having a stake in Singapore? Remember, as you've said, it's your actions that count. Are you going to do something constructive, or are you going to chase more red herrings?
Your move, junior. Are you going to say something useful for once, or are you going to continue to flap your hands and carry on about irrelevancies?
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Originally posted by MINIGUN2000:
yer estimation was incorrect initially??
see!!!evryone including u make mistakes!
SO WHAT IS THIS???WHATS THIS HERE???I DUN SEE THE SOLUTION TO CREATE A BETTER SINGAPORE!!ALL I SEE ARE PEOPLE FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES!!
WHO WILL SOLVE THE JOB PROBLEMS EVEN WHEN ECONOMY IS GOOD.....
WHO WILL SOLVE THE CONTINOUS BAD INVESTMENTS AND POOR EFFICIENT USE OF COUNTRYS RESERVES????
PRESENT GOVERNMNET PEOPLE AT TOP ARE OUT OF TUNE AND NEEEDS RECALIBRATION IF POSSIBLE!
PRESENTLY TO ME,THEY SEEM LIKE A GUY WHO IS SOOOO RICH UNTIL HE CAN BUY AN EMPTY TIN BOX FROM SWITZERLAND!TOO MUCH MONEY...N DUNNO HOW N WHEN TO SPEND!
GOVERNMENT OF SINGAPORE HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY.....VERY SAD FOR ALL SINGAPOREANS!
AND CAN YOU STOP BITCHIN N FIGHTIN AMONGST YERSELVES JUST BECAUSE YER SLIPPER IS BETTER QUALITY THAN THE OTHER PERSON!
Maybe ask xtreyier. He claims to be the hero who'll go down fighting to save Singapore.
Anyway, it wasn't a mistake. That was simply the first half-intelligent thing you've said so far, and that earned you a few points.
Who will solve the job problems? The people will, of course, as long as they're allowed to. Then again, when people like Sim Wong Hoo get boxed in by petty bureaucrats and a population that's been made too brain-dead to recognise the promise of new ideas, do you think they're allowed to?
As for investments, hey, everyone took a beating on the market. Still, turkeys who screw up really shouldn't be kept around on the basis of who they share a bed with - performance-based tenure is the only way to go.
It's not so much that the government is out of tune; it more that they're too frightened of not having absolute control. Look, there's no denying that Western democracies can resemble circuses a good part of the time; for one politician who says something, there'll be one who says the complete opposite and it often turns out to be a bad joke. Round these parts, Turnbull might be a real dickhead today, but flip a coin to find out if it'll be Rudd's turn tomorrow.
However, it take real balls to allow competing views to share the stage, and even more intestinal fortitude to really take alternative views aboard and weigh them equally against one's original stance. The light at the end of that tunnel is a set of decisions that is more sound because it has gone through the checks and balances of a system for testing ideas and assumptions.
The question is, is the Singaporean government clinging too tightly to it's perception that it has to be right 100% of the time, or does it have the confidence to open its decisions to scrutiny? Right now it's the latter, and that one-sidedness is the flat tyre that the country is currently running on.
Anyway, more points to you. You're actually looking at the issues instead of running around trying to slap gag orders on all and sundry.
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LKY has continously say that we need to pay top dollar for top talent.
I agree with this view, and given what i've read on other countries, with their ministry consistantly giving projects to relatives or getting cutbacks from large corporations to get projects done i see where the reasoning came from.
However in actual practice, CEOs are fired if the corporation itself has failed to make money. Bank managers and insurance agents are scrutinized by their monthly and annual results.
The same scrutiny is not given to the PAP.
WKS is allowed to continue despite that Mas Selamat escaped under his watch.
Ho Ching is not held responsible for the poor performance of Temasek Holdings.
And god knows how much other scandals which may not be as large as the above but are not revealed to the public.
If the investments lose money, we are told that the government is doing for the long term. If it makes money, the government is smart and ministers need a payraise. The system is made such that we can never know whether our top talents are really top talents.
The theory itself is sound, and i still stand by my opinion that it is responsible for us moving faster economically and socially compared to our immediate neighbours. We have succeeded in playing the middle between China and the West, benefitting from both sides.
However, this holy grail that LKY and the PAP's are the only views that matters is growing badly outdated and is hindering us from evolving furthur.
Democracy and LKY's view are both sound ideals, but both are equally exposed to abuse and corruption. Western democracy is showing its flaws, but so is LKY's ideals.
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"A protection racket is an extortion scheme whereby a powerful entity or individual coerces other less powerful entities or individuals to pay protection money which allegedly serves to purchase protection services against various external threats."
So we don't pay top dollars... we get lousy government hor ? Then my sistas all go work as maids ... Scared leh.. so better pay top dollars lah.....
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
"A protection racket is an extortion scheme whereby a powerful entity or individual coerces other less powerful entities or individuals to pay protection money which allegedly serves to purchase protection services against various external threats."
So we don't pay top dollars... we get lousy government hor ? Then my sistas all go work as maids ... Scared leh.. so better pay top dollars lah.....
no lah, not all work as maids, some will be forced into prostitution. ha ha ha ha
paid millions when bad times comes, sg first to go into recesssion.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
no lah, not all work as maids, some will be forced into prostitution. ha ha ha ha
paid millions when bad times comes, sg first to go into recesssion.
Ah.. they know their days are numbered lah... that's why money grab alredy. Very normal.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
"A protection racket is an extortion scheme whereby a powerful entity or individual coerces other less powerful entities or individuals to pay protection money which allegedly serves to purchase protection services against various external threats."
That's rather apt, given some of the party's other Mafiaesque tendencies:
- keeping your friends close and your enemies closer (inviting promising straight-A students to come aboard)
- making offers people can't refuse (Yong Pung How made an excellent Luca Brazzi)Hell, looking at the family history, nobody leaves the family alive.
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to jojobeach:
mebbe yer sistas are already werkin as english speaking maids ......just like annabelle cheong.
it may be too late ,,,,,,,,,,blame it on spore government not lookin after interests of own people after thru thick n thin wiv them!
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Originally posted by MINIGUN2000:
to jojobeach:
mebbe yer sistas are already werkin as english speaking maids ......just like annabelle cheong.
it may be too late ,,,,,,,,,,blame it on spore government not lookin after interests of own people after thru thick n thin wiv them!
ha ha ha, mini so good in telling joke. -
to jojobeach;
if they grab all the money n telex them overseas....spore currency will be banana $$$.
and the ones who will go after them would be ex-government people!those that vowed allegiance wiv them in blood!
i sincerely dun think its so easy they leave n hide n thats end !
death is like feather.....living is like moving mountains kinda principle!
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Originally posted by MINIGUN2000:
to jojobeach:
mebbe yer sistas are already werkin as english speaking maids ......just like annabelle cheong.
it may be too late ,,,,,,,,,,blame it on spore government not lookin after interests of own people after thru thick n thin wiv them!
aye.. ter hell wit western democracy !!! Yoo hoo yoo hoo....A pirate's life for me.....
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
That's rather apt, given some of the party's other Mafiaesque tendencies:
- keeping your friends close and your enemies closer (inviting promising straight-A students to come aboard)
- making offers people can't refuse (Yong Pung How made an excellent Luca Brazzi)Hell, looking at the family history, nobody leaves the family alive.
Aye.. them familee.. they be as thick as thieves..
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Originally posted by MINIGUN2000:
to jojobeach;
if they grab all the money n telex them overseas....spore currency will be banana $$$.
and the ones who will go after them would be ex-government people!those that vowed allegiance wiv them in blood!
i sincerely dun think its so easy they leave n hide n thats end !
death is like feather.....living is like moving mountains kinda principle!
Are ya kiddin me ?
Everything they do are "legal" .. what's there to chase ?
Morality and legality sometimes.. do not overlap... watcha gonna do ?
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to jo jo:
fight hand n tooth to the death......if that is the case.
u ready to give it up for country?
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Originally posted by MINIGUN2000:
to jo jo:
fight hand n tooth to the death......if that is the case.
u ready to give it up for country?
Give what up for country ?
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
As for being lacking in reason and logic, may I suggest that you again look in the mirror and see how little substance you've actually provided to the discussion. In contrast, look back a couple of pages and you'll see what I've had to say about the nature of the problem, namely that while a high level of control was warranted for the first twenty years of Singapore's independence, the period after that demanded a relaxation of that grip for Singapore to grow intellectually and creatively, in anticipation for the time when Singapore's economy grew to the point where it could no longer compete with other countries for the manufacturing market. All the reasoning and logic you rail about is here, and I reiterate that whether it comes from me, Harry or Santa Claus, it's a point directly pertinent to the state of affairs that you have to date steadfastly sidestepped.
I would have simply ignore you and let your opinions be judged by others more discerning, and may they overlook your more egoistical comments and not judge harshly. But for the sake of clarity and to correct the blindness, overboard conceit, you had overlooked in my initial response to you, i feel the necessity to reply, to help others understand more of what you are attempting to do and say.
You are presumptous to assume that you know it all and determined the nature of the problem. Unfortunately, it is something which even a village idiot can mouth today based on hindsight.
You foolishly claimed a time frame for progression and evolution of society, but upon what foundations or political/socia economic theory are you basing on? Or was just something that flew to your mind, and in your loneliness and rejection by your own adopted countrymen, you foreigner rant and take it out on us citizens?
Even more critically, after boastfully claiming credit for voicing out the 'nature' of our problem as perceived by you, had you come out with anything else constructive for the progress of our nation?
None, all i see are your continued egoistical rants, flagrant name droppings to boost your inferiority complex, and typical vulgarity resorting to ridicule when you are intellectually challenged by others.
In case you miss this vital point, i will repeat in bold ( not in anger ) so that you will not miss it - WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION THEN TO OUR CRISIS IN YOUR VAINGLORIOUS NARCISSISTIC VIEW?
Foreigner, continue to live in your deluded hubris, for other fellow citizens are not as foolish as you presumed or want them to be. We prefer solutions, not condemnations, for we ourselves are fully capable of making them without your help.