Western democracy should just go to hell, LKY is Right
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*Yawn* More sidestepping. Okay, for a little more than amusement, let's filter out the flaccid chest-thumping from your most recent post and see what we're left with, shall we?
Originally posted by xtreyier:I would have simply ignore you and let your opinions be judged by others more discerning, and may they overlook your more egoistical comments and not judge harshly. But for the sake of clarity and to correct the blindness, overboard conceit, you had overlooked in my initial response to you, i feel the necessity to reply, to help others understand more of what you are attempting to do and say.
You are presumptous to assume that you know it all and determined the nature of the problem. Unfortunately, it is something which even a village idiot can mouth today based on hindsight.
You foolishly claimed a time frame for progression and evolution of society, but upon what foundations or political/socia economic theory are you basing on? Or was just something that flew to your mind, and in your loneliness and rejection by your own adopted countrymen, you foreigner rant and take it out on us citizens?
Even more critically, after boastfully claiming credit for voicing out the 'nature' of our problem as perceived by you, had you come out with anything else constructive for the progress of our nation?
None, all i see are your continued egoistical rants, flagrant name droppings to boost your inferiority complex, and typical vulgarity resorting to ridicule when you are intellectually challenged by others.
In case you miss this vital point, i will repeat in bold ( not in anger ) so that you will not miss it - WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION THEN TO OUR CRISIS IN YOUR VAINGLORIOUS NARCISSISTIC VIEW?
Foreigner, continue to live in your deluded hubris, for other fellow citizens are not as foolish as you presumed or want them to be. We prefer solutions, not condemnations, for we ourselves are fully capable of making them without your help.
You're a classic example of what ails the country, because the only thing you know is to respond to everything with, "No, it's not" - you're just like Monty Python's Argument Sketch.
What's my solution? Simple. Singapore needs to get rid of people like you who waste precious air questioning irrelevancies instead of examining issues, and who have the tragically frail, itsy-bitsy little egos that compel them to use opposition of any ideas as a smokescreen to cover up the fact that they're too frightened to come up with any ideas of their own.
Get this into your head: either lead, follow or get out of the way because, frankly, your bleating about being betrayed is not only an obstruction to anything resembling reason, it's pretty fucking boring as well.
Think I'm wrong? Show me where you've proposed anything here to deal with the crisis. Go on - I dare you. I say you haven't, and I say you can't because you're just too scared to think for yourself instead of chanting the slogans, exhortations and general bullshit that the government has pumped through your ears. You've gone so faroff the deep end that now you're taking a decision made in 1992, with the current circumstances to show the tinmeframe in which the decision was made, and tried presenting the ludicrous claim that it was hindsight. I got a chuckle out of that one, I'll give you that much.
Oh, by the way, talking about your initial response, you wrote:
Originally posted by xtreyier:let us all crack our brains on how we can collectively improve our economy, what will work for us as a society, thru discussion and not finger pointing or ridiculing each other.
Hmm. In light of your latest post, I'd call you a hypocrite in court.
You've lost all control, perspective and logic, and while all I've done is present my opinions and experience, you seem to have fired up all of your little insecurities and worked up a lathering rabid one-man crusade here.
Keep trucking right along, tiger -remember, you're the one whining about having to clean up this mess that your government created because it's you that's going to go down with the ship. I've already made my decision and my profits out of that decision, so you're right in the sense that it's academic for me. Does it make a difference to me if you succeed or if you drown while helplessly flailing about in a rabid frenzy? Nope, but the rabies is somewhat more amusing.
The damndest this is that, for all on his shenanigans, Minigun is actually providing more intelligent conversation than your spittle-filled rants. Who'd have thunk it?
Look, I'll be straight with you, you're boring me. If you do want conversation, pick apart what I've said about Singapore pricing itself out of the manufacturing sector, or what I've said about the government needing to give people more free rein. You asked for the solutions, but you're too blind to see that I've already addressed that - or are you simply too scared of the truth?
Either way, until you come back to the real issues, you're just being a baby who's dropped his blankie in the mud, and frankly, that kind of crybaby bullshit just bores the heck out of me.
So it's up to you - I've shown you what I've said, I've shown you how you're being childish, I've shown you how your posts are nothing but empty calories, and I've shown you what a hypocrite you are. Now either grow up or stop wasting bandwidth.
Now, I've got a rather nice discourse about Riemann's Hypothesis going on in another forum, so do pardon me if I have to leave you to blow your nose and wipe your arse by yourself. I'll peruse this thread for amusing tidbits that might pop up, but you'll understand if I don't hold my breath waiting for a half-intelligent utterance from you.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
*Yawn* More sidestepping. Okay, for a little more than amusement, let's filter out the flaccid chest-thumping from your most recent post and see what we're left with, shall we?
You're a classic example of what ails the country, because the only thing you know is to respond to everything with, "No, it's not" - you're just like Monty Python's Argument Sketch.
What's my solution? Simple. Singapore needs to get rid of people like you who waste precious air questioning irrelevancies instead of examining issues, and who have the tragically frail, itsy-bitsy little egos that compel them to use opposition of any ideas as a smokescreen to cover up the fact that they're too frightened to come up with any ideas of their own.
Get this into your head: either lead, follow or get out of the way because, frankly, your bleating about being betrayed is not only an obstruction to anything resembling reason, it's pretty fucking boring as well.
Think I'm wrong? Show me where you've proposed anything here to deal with the crisis. Go on - I dare you. I say you haven't, and I say you can't because you're just too scared to think for yourself instead of chanting the slogans, exhortations and general bullshit that the government has pumped through your ears. You've gone so faroff the deep end that now you're taking a decision made in 1992, with the current circumstances to show the tinmeframe in which the decision was made, and tried presenting the ludicrous claim that it was hindsight. I got a chuckle out of that one, I'll give you that much.
Oh, by the way, talking about your initial response, you wrote:
Hmm. In light of your latest post, I'd call you a hypocrite in court.
You've lost all control, perspective and logic, and while all I've done is present my opinions and experience, you seem to have fired up all of your little insecurities and worked up a lathering rabid one-man crusade here.
Keep trucking right along, tiger -remember, you're the one whining about having to clean up this mess that your government created because it's you that's going to go down with the ship. I've already made my decision and my profits out of that decision, so you're right in the sense that it's academic for me. Does it make a difference to me if you succeed or if you drown while helplessly flailing about in a rabid frenzy? Nope, but the rabies is somewhat more amusing.
The damndest this is that, for all on his shenanigans, Minigun is actually providing more intelligent conversation than your spittle-filled rants. Who'd have thunk it?
Look, I'll be straight with you, you're boring me. If you do want conversation, pick apart what I've said about Singapore pricing itself out of the manufacturing sector, or what I've said about the government needing to give people more free rein. You asked for the solutions, but you're too blind to see that I've already addressed that - or are you simply too scared of the truth?
Either way, until you come back to the real issues, you're just being a baby who's dropped his blankie in the mud, and frankly, that kind of crybaby bullshit just bores the heck out of me.
So it's up to you - I've shown you what I've said, I've shown you how you're being childish, I've shown you how your posts are nothing but empty calories, and I've shown you what a hypocrite you are. Now either grow up or stop wasting bandwidth.
Ignoring your long winded rant again, is 'giving the people more free rein' your answer in response as a solution out of our crisis?
If that is indeed your solution, then thank you. I guess we may be born equal, but intelligence is unequal in being given to each person, no matter how much education or experience one gains.
I would have look forward to a fruitful discussion, even for the loud mouth uncouth vulgarity you display, even with a child, but i guess it would be an impossible hope with one as conceited as you, to find a solution.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Tsk tsk.. another annoying post from ya.
Yer school bell is ringing.. send my regards to your primary school teacher eh..I bet he/she's having a hard time educating ye to pass that PSLE exam.
hahaha....annoying? shouldn't be annoyed at what you said.
if you know my primary school teacher, you should go say hello yourself. pai seh if she asked me jojobeach who?
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Was attracted by the 2000 plus hits on this topic & out of curiousity, I went thru all the posts & here goes:
Very interesting to read of the verbal punches & counter punches thrown by the debaters & from what I can see the coconut seems to have an edge over the banana in respect of the logical, rational, realistic & practical points being put across, not forgetting to mention that the coconut is also courteous & not flamboyant in his words.
It's just my opinion & I know some of you will disagree with me.
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Whos the coconut?
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Originally posted by richong 3216:
Was attracted by the 2000 plus hits on this topic & out of curiousity, I went thru all the posts & here goes:
Very interesting to read of the verbal punches & counter punches thrown by the debaters & from what I can see the coconut seems to have an edge over the banana in respect of the logical, rational, realistic & practical points being put across, not forgetting to mention that the coconut is also courteous & not flamboyant in his words.
It's just my opinion & I know some of you will disagree with me.
beauty is the eye of beholder.
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Originally posted by richong 3216:
Was attracted by the 2000 plus hits on this topic & out of curiousity, I went thru all the posts & here goes:
Very interesting to read of the verbal punches & counter punches thrown by the debaters & from what I can see the coconut seems to have an edge over the banana in respect of the logical, rational, realistic & practical points being put across, not forgetting to mention that the coconut is also courteous & not flamboyant in his words.
It's just my opinion & I know some of you will disagree with me.
I do agree that the coconut is doing a fairly good job in the debate.
Given the banana has unfair advantage with his age, phd, overseas experience.
While I applaud coconut's brave counter.. he is limiting the element of persuasion when he attempts to sweep obvious issues under the carpet.
In order to fix a problem.. one must first acknowlege it. Be more forthcoming.. and ye shall be the hero of the people.
Can we find the SG version of Obama in this coconut boy ? I'm afraid not.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
beauty is the eye of beholder.
Perception is selective ha ha - what you said reminds me of some time ago when some one posted a pic of Uncle Yap favourite auntie - he calls her H.. Jinx (or something like that) & it elicited so much negative comments re: the concept of beauty that I am sure this Yappie will be so satisfied that he must be laughing all the way to the Laughing Bank!!
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
I guess we may be born equal, but intelligence is unequal in being given to each person, no matter how much education or experience one gains.
If you believe that - "no matter how much education or experience one gains" it cannot contribute to the innate intelligence in a human - is there any hope for the future ?
It will be damning for Singapore's future - if your statement is reflective of the "education and experience" not making any dent in the human intelligence of your Singapore Generation.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
I do agree that the coconut is doing a fairly good job in the debate.
Given the banana has unfair advantage with his age, phd, overseas experience.
While I applaud coconut's brave counter.. he is limiting the element of persuasion when he attempts to sweep obvious issues under the carpet.
In order to fix a problem.. one must first acknowlege it. Be more forthcoming.. and ye shall be the hero of the people.
Can we find the SG version of Obama in this coconut boy ? I'm afraid not.
Hi Jojo thanks for the response but I think it's important that we must not be too much of an arm chair critic (so easy to do) - instead we should appreciate these 2 gentlemen for synapsing their brain cells extensively & coming up with views in written repartee between themselves in particular & the public viewing in general. Cheers!
The political debate about how to manage Sg will be always on going but after all these years, the govt is slowing changing & one aspect of this change is less restriction in your freedom of expression.
Today you can read in the sgforum topic with the caption: "Lee Kuan Yew when are you going to stop taking public money?" which in the old days you are bound to be taken to task - and mind you this topic has been going for a long time with 24,000 plus hits.
I totally dont have an idea who this coconut is but he seems to be cool, calm & collected & laced with civility - and if you notice, his response is very quick (like the banana).
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Have you guys not discern from the "genteel responses" that the "coconut" may have more then "one nut" to spare ?
It was an "unfair" debate with one side having "two nuts" when the other has only a single cool "banana".
Seriously, will anyone give up one's citizenship after accepting the loss in the best years of one's youth to serve NS ?
Should anyone be disparaged as a "quitter" for simply preferring to work overseas ?
Should any Singaporean who give up the Citizenship be even called a "quitter" ?
The creator of such a disparaging term has shown a bankrupt mind that has quit thinking creatively - and has shown no shame to recruit "quitters" from other nations to serve the Singaporean agenda.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Have you guys not discern from the "genteel responses" that the "coconut" may have more then "one nut" to spare ?
It was an "unfair" debate with one side having "two nuts" when the other has only a single cool "banana".
Seriously, will anyone give up one's citizenship after accepting the loss in the best years of one's youth to serve NS ?
Should anyone be disparaged as a "quitter" for simply preferring to work overseas ?
Should any Singaporean who give up the Citizenship be even called a "quitter" ?
The creator of such a disparaging term has shown a bankrupt mind that has quit thinking creatively - and has shown no shame to recruit "quitters" from other nations to serve the Singaporean agenda.
Hahahh...
Two nuts and a cool banana.. they both sprouted from the same precarious spot.
Ofcors the nut gets angry when cool banana found a nice warm home and left the nut hanging out in the cold......
I'm hanging on to my Sg citizenship not because I love my gahmen.
Rather .. the people.. the culture.. the food.. are what holds me back.
And Singapore will always be the place I return to.
( Not because of LKY/LHL/PAP.. the heat and humidity :P, not the skycrapers or MRT, not the busy streets of Orchard road ).
Even if the dot is but a fishing village.. it will always be the place my love ones live.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
If you believe that - "no matter how much education or experience one gains" it cannot contribute to the innate intelligence in a human - is there any hope for the future ?
It will be damning for Singapore's future - if your statement is reflective of the "education and experience" not making any dent in the human intelligence of your Singapore Generation.
I think what he is trying to point out is that intelligence is determined by the genetic blueprints of the parents i.e high intelligence (likely) begets high intelligence & education by itself cannot supercede the innate intelligence but I'll add further to say that education can enhance & maximise to the full potential of the inherent IQ.
If I remember correctly this is what lky believes in & wants graduates to marry graduates.
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Originally posted by richong 3216:
I think what he is trying to point out is that intelligence is determined by the genetic blueprints of the parents i.e high intelligence (likely) begets high intelligence & education by itself cannot supercede the innate intelligence but I'll add further to say that education can enhance & maximise to the full potential of the inherent IQ.
If I remember correctly this is what lky believes in & wants graduates to marry graduates.
LKY has the genetic qualities of an amoeba - and as an asexual amoeba, does he need any humans to be parents ?
As such, what makes LKY qualify to make such a remark about Humans ?
He forgot that his DNA is passed on from his father - who was a hardworking and honorable Salesman and his mother is a respectable housewife both without "too much" education but with more intelligence about human warmth and human sense than what he is capable of comprehending.
High intelligence begetting high intelligence ?
It certainly did not lead anywhere in his family tree.
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Originally posted by richong 3216:
I think what he is trying to point out is that intelligence is determined by the genetic blueprints of the parents i.e high intelligence (likely) begets high intelligence & education by itself cannot supercede the innate intelligence but I'll add further to say that education can enhance & maximise to the full potential of the inherent IQ.
If I remember correctly this is what lky believes in & wants graduates to marry graduates.
i doubt that's what X means.
If that be the real case.. then X is one of them intellectually disadvantaged.. when his own parents abandoned him.. how can he seriously believe what crap oh senile guy sprouts ?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Hahahh...
Two nuts and a cool banana.. they both sprouted from the same precarious spot.
Ofcors the nut gets angry when cool banana found a nice warm home and left the nut hanging out in the cold......
I'm hanging on to my Sg citizenship not because I love my gahmen.
Rather .. the people.. the culture.. the food.. are what holds me back.
And Singapore will always be the place I return to.
( Not because of LKY/LHL/PAP.. the heat and humidity :P, not the skycrapers or MRT, not the busy streets of Orchard road ).
Even if the dot is but a fishing village.. it will always be the place my love ones live.
This is what makes Singaporeans what we are - wherever we maybe on this globe.
Our bonds to our family, and all those whom we hold dear.
Our food - that are shared and eaten by all races (sans the non-halal items to the Muslims) - but with particular exception to the "mee siam mai hum" dish.
Our bonds with friends created from the comradeship that we found in schools and developed to new heights during NS days - from the commitment shown to each other in achieving shared responsibilities and missions.
This is what hold us here in Singapore.
Our continued existence is due to our inherited ingenuity and creativity to survive by adapting and circumventing the arrogant policies in the self-serving politics of the ONE Party Government in Singapore.
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Whos the coconut?
looks like the banana have identified themselves.
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Malaysian coming to this thread to mess around. it is really none of his business or whatsoever, yet bitching around here. seems a bitchy woman in a man's body. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
This is what makes Singaporeans what we are - wherever we maybe on this globe.
Our bonds to our family, and all those whom we hold dear.
Our food - that are shared and eaten by all races (sans the non-halal items to the Muslims) - but with particular exception to the "mee siam mai hum" dish.
Our bonds with friends created from the comradeship that we found in schools and developed to new heights during NS days - from the commitment shown to each other in achieving shared responsibilities and missions.
This is what hold us here in Singapore.
Our continued existence is due to our inherited ingenuity and creativity to survive by adapting and circumventing the arrogant policies in the self-serving politics of the ONE Party Government in Singapore.
While i do not agree with your stance that LKY and his governing philosophy did not contribute to our current prosperity, i can at least agree with this statement.
The reasoning and philosophy i still believe is sound, but the human factor itself (LKY and friends) is preventing the system from evolving furthur.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
While i do not agree with your stance that LKY and his governing philosophy did not contribute to our current prosperity, i can at least agree with this statement.
The reasoning and philosophy i still believe is sound, but the human factor itself (LKY and friends) is preventing the system from evolving furthur.
Current - as in the Year 2009 ?
Current Prosperity ?
What prosperity - when we are in a period of recession ?
What prosperity - when the majority of Singaporeans are still struggling - some with two jobs to survive, and young graduates cannot even afford to get married before 30 years of age ?
The current status quo has been ongoing since 1987 - when he began griping about Singaporeans marrying late, marrying down, and not producing enough.
If LKY loses another few 100 Billions from overseas financial adventures, we will end up back to 1957 - when he first took over the State Government with an empty Treasury left by then Chief Minister Lim Yew Hock.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
Malaysian coming to this thread to mess around. it is really none of his business or whatsoever, yet bitching around here. seems a bitchy woman in a man's body.Fantagf, you are not worth my time for any reply. But it become obvious that you do not have the ability to realise your own stupidity.
Since the beginning, before independence, migrants came to Singapore and became Singaporean through the right given by the consititution, and their contribution to the country. The constitution of Singapore, is above all legitimate political parties of the country. Whether you like PAP or not doesn't really matter.
It is the same way that Singaporean who migrate to Australia, Canada...are granted PR, citizenships of the countries, by the constitution of the countries.
The big difference here is that the local born australian, canadian are gracious to accept new immigrants of any origins, races, as fellow australians, canadians....while some self righteous, naive, Singaporeans still think they own the land.
You are pathetic.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Fantagf, you are not worth my time for any reply. But it become obvious that you do not have the ability to realise your own stupidity.
Since the beginning, before independence, migrants came to Singapore and became Singaporean through the right given by the consititution, and their contribution to the country. The constitution of Singapore, is above all legitimate political parties of the country. Whether you like PAP or not doesn't really matter.
It is the same way that Singaporean who migrate to Australia, Canada...are granted PR, citizenships of the countries, by the constitution of the countries.
The big difference here is that the local born australian, canadian are gracious to accept new immigrants of any origins, races, as fellow australians, canadians....while some self righteous, naive, Singaporeans still think they own the land.
You are pathetic.
It is none of your business, Malaysian.i not worth your time replying but u still send this post. ha ha ha
WE know u well enough. Go Malaysia website to kpkb, here not for Malaysian like u to mess around.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Current - as in the Year 2009 ?
Current Prosperity ?
What prosperity - when we are in a period of recession ?
What prosperity - when the majority of Singaporeans are still struggling - some with two jobs to survive, and young graduates cannot even afford to get married before 30 years of age ?
The current status quo has been ongoing since 1987 - when he began griping about Singaporeans marrying late, marrying down, and not producing enough.
If LKY loses another few 100 Billions from overseas financial adventures, we will end up back to 1957 - when he first took over the State Government with an empty Treasury left by then Chief Minister Lim Yew Hock.
I guess it is with your definition of prosperity.
I consider that easy access to food, water, relative social stability(jobs for one, though that is changing with the economic crisis) and medical attention as the hallmarks of prosperity. I won't say internet is a need, but it is handy to accquire information and knowledge.
Any more than that is being greedy, and extremely vague. What more do you want? You certainly have more than what you physically need, that is certainly better than the 1 billion that did not have access to clean water and the 2 billion without electricity.
Singapore has remained secular despite being surrounded by pre dominantly Muslim nations (though i suspect that would change with the strength and wealth of Christianity here).
Your issue with Singaporeans marrying late is happening across Taiwan, Japan, HongKong, Shanghai..etc. As long as it is a highly urbanised population, it is an existing problem.
We often argue that our youths are leaving the country because of the PAP, if not for my family i would have considered the same. However, Singapore is still responsible for making us attractive as immigrants in other countries, for the access to higher education and facilities.
I may disagree what is happening now but i could hardly ignore the fact that it is given me the opportunities to access information and knowledge that allowed me insights on how the world works.
Your stance has always been that LKY's very existence and has from the moment he took office, suppress our full potential and that any leader could do a better job. My question is impending our potential to what? Is there a physical example of what you think we could have become?
Would i agree or even want the example you give? Would i agree with your interpretation that it is better?
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to all:
banana...nuts....avocadoes..............all are ok,as long as they solve problems n push all in singapore to better prosperity.
to sg die hard:foreigners overseas accept gratiously??canadians??aussies.....hey!be realistic!!do ya see next door malaysia or indonesia accepting singapreans in gratiously?be it americans, aussies,germans,swedish or polish............their attitude is all the same.
get some friends in real life,,,,,they will tell u!
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
Malaysian coming to this thread to mess around. it is really none of his business or whatsoever, yet bitching around here. seems a bitchy woman in a man's body.Aye... I shall identify them as the Durians.
Some like em.. some don't like em.
Durians encased themselves with spikes.. but infact inside all soft soft..
The nasty ones are just horrid.. the good ones are worth the penny.