Why America won't go down?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Simple viscious cycle.USA invest in manufacturing facilities in China, bring money over to China where Chinese workers earn their wages paid by US investors - US Dollar stay in China.
These US investment may or may not be equity shareholders in the manufacturing plants, and may simply be investment to upgrade manufacturing equipment to help meet US quality standards, and in return obtain lower cost for manufactured products.
China makes the goods that USA will buy, and more US dollar flow to China to pay for these manufactured goods - US Dollar stay in China.
USA buys more attractively priced China manufactured products based on US standards - more US dollar flow in and stay in China.
This has led to an unbalanced trade between China and USA, where the USA buys more from China, then China can buy from the USA.
At present, money only flow in one direction - with China having a huge net gain every year, and the USA having a huge net loss.
As matters stand, USA is going broke from this unbalanced trade payments - which is worsened by the stupidity in George W Bush's war agenda in Iraq, and the inattention paid to shorten the war to fight the Talibans and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
With two wars running at the same time, this is bankrupting the US Treasury.
China has to support the US financial market and prevent the US Dollar from losing its value.
This is in China's own interest, as she is holding a large amount of US Dollar from the annual positive trade balance that it has with the USA.
To keep the US Dollar afloat, China has to continuously buy US Treasury Bonds and inject some of the accumulated US Dollar back into USA.
How many Boeing aircrafts can China continue to buy to return the huge amount of the US Dollars that she has accumulated from the annual trade surplus that continue to grow geometrically every year ?
China can only pray that the US Treasury Bonds will also be supported by other Governments and investors, so that these Bonds will not become worthless paper.
The other alternative is for China to slowly sell the US Dollar in the international currency exchange, but only in small volumes that do not affect the exchange rate and create losses in the daily currency trading activities designed to reduce the amount of US Dollar in their possession.
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Why is the alternative "for China to slowly sell the US Dollar"?
China can't afford to revalue their currency! If they sell too quickly, then the Chinese Renminbi will rise against the US dollars, their export industries collapse, US goods become much more affordable for the Chinese people to buy, the money start flowing back to the USA.
Think, not just Boeing but US toys selling cheaper than China toys because of the exchange rates.
So, they sell, they die. They do not sell they die.
Why it is that "They do not sell they die"?
The USA has discovered a new trick! You don't sell, they print US Dollars!!!
It is their currency! They can print as much as they want!!!!!
Sure, there is a chance that the US Dollars will collapse but the ball is on China side and for China, the alternative is "for China to slowly sell the US Dollar". If China starts to sell, the USA starts moping up the "excess" US dollars and stabalize the rates where they want it. It is their currency, they do what they like.
Only when China can stand on her own two feet and do not need to export will they be able to sell the US dollars, currency rates be damned.
If China can stand on her own two feet, that means, demand in China has increased and the USA can sell to them much more that the US can sell to them at the moment and money will flow from China to the USA.
Let me repeat, the USA has now learnt a new trick and that is, to print more US Dollars. What can China do about it????
In the meantime, the US is printing money to feed her 10% unemployed with newly printed US Dollars while the Chinese are working as coolies toiling away for a few more US Dollars.
What about China printing more of their currency? That is pointless because in international trade, people demand US dollars.
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i thought printing $$ will cost the $$ to lose value?
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Originally posted by youyayu:
i thought printing $$ will cost the $$ to lose value?
What do you understand by "lose value"?
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Hmmm.. you know.. I posted a "LINK" actually on that " Why China needs to buy US Bonds"....... you can "click" on the words.. and it will link you to an article that explains WHY china needs to buy US stocks .......LOL...
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hey jojio:
where are ya from???i cant recognise yer ip address
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
You know what is I scratch your back.. you scatch my balls ?
i know perfectly, that is why i am gaining on China equity, per 0.1 points, i am gaining 8k Sg dollars, u think i mei mei dunno anything ar?? I also used my ah ma name, tax free. We all must learn to take advantage of loop hole in govt taxationYea, Both are scratching each other back on the world economy front, but on the social and political front, China is also playing the game, just press a button only, that KIM goes to work, fire a few missile here and there, another button, the mynmar junta goes to work, take in democractic political leader, crack down on buddhism etc etc...and maybe another button only, Iran or Osama going to create more problem for the USA. Within a few buttons pressing only, US of A is going to spend billions in their arm forces already, so if US of A keep going to print their money, so be it, press more buttons and these US of A not only have to spend more, but their son have to risk their life in foreign soil and also the taxpayer like you is going to suffer more.
Dad said it time for China to tell USA, " Go on pal, make my day"
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Originally posted by angel7030:
i know perfectly, that is why i am gaining on China equity, per 0.1 points, i am gaining 8k Sg dollars, u think i mei mei dunno anything ar?? I also used my ah ma name, tax free. We all must learn to take advantage of loop hole in govt taxationYea, Both are scratching each other back on the world economy front, but on the social and political front, China is also playing the game, just press a button only, that KIM goes to work, fire a few missile here and there, another button, the mynmar junta goes to work, take in democractic political leader, crack down on buddhism etc etc...and maybe another button only, Iran or Osama going to create more problem for the USA. Within a few buttons pressing only, US of A is going to spend billions in their arm forces already, so if US of A keep going to print their money, so be it, press more buttons and these US of A not only have to spend more, but their son have to risk their life in foreign soil and also the taxpayer like you is going to suffer more.
Dad said it time for China to tell USA, " Go on pal, make my day"
Ok. So what good will come out of it.. when USA does go down ?
Is China ready to take over the torch from USA ?
Will China send their sons to fight the Taliban before they devour the world with their extremist beliefs ? If US won't fight the war.. who will ?
If all China does is push buttons and millions of people are gonna die... are you sure China is your top choice of a global leader ?
Ofcors.. there is nothing wrong with you being opportunistic. After all.. money is money. Yes ?
But lets face it.
USA is not a country everybody wants to love.. but the problem is.. can we really do without her ?
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Originally posted by TERMINATOR2000:
hey jojio:
where are ya from???i cant recognise yer ip address
Ya see the ring on my middle finger ? My name is engraved on it.
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Thank you, Catknight, and others for the kind words about America; however, as an American that has traveled the world, we are no longer the nation to be envied or modeled. With the election of Obama, and I believe that people get the government they elect, the USA will soon pass into history as it becomes more and more fascist. Many think the USA is becoming socialistic, but history has never shown an example of a democracy becoming socialistic. Democracies become fascist; monarchies/totalitarian governments become socialistic. I hate to say it, but watch over the next 18 months as the US Government takes over more and more of the American economy under the guise of "solving the crisis." We Americans have become lethargic and lazy; we now depend on the "Government" for 1 out of every 5 dollars; we were even chastised by the Russian newspaper, Pravda, as becoming (their mistake) socialistic.
I will leave the USA before the 2012 elections and try to get an immigrants VISA to SG. Your city/state/country still has the ideals that I think can make freedom work, but it too must be guarded against allowing too much government intervention.
Thank you for allowing me to join and read your forums. I will be back and read more of this interesting web site over the next few days/weeks. Good luck with your dreams, SG.
Nanouk (Alaska, USA)
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Ok. So what good will come out of it.. when USA does go down ?
Is China ready to take over the torch from USA ?
Will China send their sons to fight the Taliban before they devour the world with their extremist beliefs ? If US won't fight the war.. who will ?
If all China does is push buttons and millions of people are gonna die... are you sure China is your top choice of a global leader ?
Ofcors.. there is nothing wrong with you being opportunistic. After all.. money is money. Yes ?
USA are always knocking on their own heads, if I understand from my social history study, from lieut Col North to watergate cases, USA are alway a double agents crook, the world see it, formerly they also supported the Taliban against the Russian, and now, they goes against the Taliban, why?? Must be US of A didn't take care of them or live up to their promises. US of A has alway wanted to be the world policeman, but the different with a norm policeman is that US of A wanted something out of their policeman work whereas a normal one just do it for the peace of the society. USA likes to create their own war, otherwise they cannot justify the high taxation and also, cannot prove that their forces and weapons are nos 1, be the big brother and people start buying their weapons, which is the biggest business with or without recession.
China population is more than half of USA, its economy is at an infant stage growing faster than ever. Peoples there are just like the USA in the 1945 when the war was over, getting richer and economy booming, they are hungry for technology, english, electronic stuffs, LCD, computer, books, car, houses, press water toilets, etc etc..as Sony chairman said, "Selling LCDTV to the Chinese is enough already", the Chinese are no more looking for bread and opiums, and with a population more than 1/2 of USA, can u imagine the market,...1.3 billion, if u sell a pencil at just $1, and all buy it, you are a billionair liao...that is the market we are talking about. Today china 8% GDP growth is not on export, it on domestic only, just imagine if USA recover and the world goes up again, the next tidal waves in China will be tremedous, anytime over 10% GDP.
And surprisingly, USA brokers are selling China equity like hot cake, these insitution that underwrite it are surprisingly, AIG, Citibank and all other rescued by Obama and the Fed.
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Angel, I think you are right. China is like the USA after WWII, and unfortunately, the USA is now like Europe. We are doomed to become a much weaker, less important economic power, and less effective in promoting democracy. So will China step in the shoes left by the USA-vacuum? Probably, but what will they export? What will they promote?
The old Soviet Union went away since it could not "centrally plan" their economy and those if its satellites. China can "centrally plan" as long as what Angel says doesn't take place: the growth of the Chinese middle class. When this happens China will not be able to contain the demands and aspirations of its more demanding population and change will come to China like it did for the old USSR; however, I don't believe the USA will be around to help out.
It will be interesting to see how China deals with the growing economic power they are becoming while still trying to stay a collectivist-state. Central planning simply has limits to its effectiveness.
Nanouk (Alaska, USA)
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Originally posted by Ibnanouk:
I will leave the USA before the 2012 elections and try to get an immigrants VISA to SG. Your city/state/country still has the ideals that I think can make freedom work, but it too must be guarded against allowing too much government intervention.
"Your city/state/country still has the ideals that I think can make freedom work, but it too must be guarded against allowing too much government intervention."
Dude.. you're in for a big surprise..... yeeks.
Anyway.. enjoy the culture, food and people, that's what really matters.
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Jojo, are you telling me that SG is already done for? Hope not, but I will take your word for it since its been about 5 years since I visited SG. What are the big changes in that time, if you don't mind me asking?
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Originally posted by angel7030:
USA are always knocking on their own heads, if I understand from my social history study, from lieut Col North to watergate cases, USA are alway a double agents crook, the world see it, formerly they also supported the Taliban against the Russian, and now, they goes against the Taliban, why?? Must be US of A didn't take care of them or live up to their promises. US of A has alway wanted to be the world policeman, but the different with a norm policeman is that US of A wanted something out of their policeman work whereas a normal one just do it for the peace of the society. USA likes to create their own war, otherwise they cannot justify the high taxation and also, cannot prove that their forces and weapons are nos 1, be the big brother and people start buying their weapons, which is the biggest business with or without recession.
China population is more than half of USA, its economy is at an infant stage growing faster than ever. Peoples there are just like the USA in the 1945 when the war was over, getting richer and economy booming, they are hungry for technology, english, electronic stuffs, LCD, computer, books, car, houses, press water toilets, etc etc..as Sony chairman said, "Selling LCDTV to the Chinese is enough already", the Chinese are no more looking for bread and opiums, and with a population more than 1/2 of USA, can u imagine the market,...1.3 billion, if u sell a pencil at just $1, and all buy it, you are a billionair liao...that is the market we are talking about. Today china 8% GDP growth is not on export, it on domestic only, just imagine if USA recover and the world goes up again, the next tidal waves in China will be tremedous, anytime over 10% GDP.
And surprisingly, USA brokers are selling China equity like hot cake, these insitution that underwrite it are surprisingly, AIG, Citibank and all other rescued by Obama and the Fed.
Well... I have to agree USA's policy is rather inconsistent. But what to do ? They change their president every 2 terms.
Are you sure normal policemen will upkeep peace for nothing ? You don't pay them.. you think they will do their job meh ? Please lor....
Freedom and peace always come at a price ok ?
China is big lah..yes.. and the domestic market is big lah.. but you forget one simple fact lah....your pencil industry ... is not a monopolistic one leh.
While your consumer base is huge... you also have tons of competitors hor.
China's growth pattern is not unique mah. How long can they sustain the growth ?
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Originally posted by Ibnanouk:
Angel, I think you are right. China is like the USA after WWII, and unfortunately, the USA is now like Europe. We are doomed to become a much weaker, less important economic power, and less effective in promoting democracy. So will China step in the shoes left by the USA-vacuum? Probably, but what will they export? What will they promote?
The old Soviet Union went away since it could not "centrally plan" their economy and those if its satellites. China can "centrally plan" as long as what Angel says doesn't take place: the growth of the Chinese middle class. When this happens China will not be able to contain the demands and aspirations of its more demanding population and change will come to China like it did for the old USSR; however, I don't believe the USA will be around to help out.
It will be interesting to see how China deals with the growing economic power they are becoming while still trying to stay a collectivist-state. Central planning simply has limits to its effectiveness.
Nanouk (Alaska, USA)
u from Alaska, then I from Siberia -
Originally posted by Ibnanouk:
Jojo, are you telling me that SG is already done for? Hope not, but I will take your word for it since its been about 5 years since I visited SG. What are the big changes in that time, if you don't mind me asking?
No.. Singapore is still very lovable. More high tech than ever. More culturally diverse than before....If you enjoy city life.. you're right at home in Singapore.
However.. don't expect too much of a laissez faire government . OK ? Good.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
No.. Singapore is still very lovable. More high tech than ever. More culturally diverse than before....If you enjoy city life.. you're right at home in Singapore.
However.. don't expect too much of a laissez faire government . OK ? Good.
huh! never intro me...HMMM!! -
Originally posted by Ibnanouk:
Jojo, are you telling me that SG is already done for? Hope not, but I will take your word for it since its been about 5 years since I visited SG. What are the big changes in that time, if you don't mind me asking?
And also ah.. got plenty of pweetty girls like sista Angel... who is not only yummy on the outside.. but also yummy up there.. ya.... no... I mean higher... above her shoulders please.
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Angel: Yes, small town in middle of Alaska called Talkeetna, AK. Use Google Maps to take a look. We are between Anchorage and Fairbanks near Denali National Park.
Jojo: I usually don't like big cities, but SG I enjoyed immensely. Stayed with an Indian family I met many years ago. Their 14 yo son took me all over the city; had a great time.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
And also ah.. got plenty of pweetty girls like sista Angel... who is not only yummy on the outside.. but also yummy up there.. ya.... no... I mean higher... above her shoulders please.
ok ok ok,,,enuf enuf ENOUGH!!, should have known better...seibei sway...thank you thank you...Haiz, go sleep liao. -
Originally posted by Ibnanouk:
Angel: Yes, small town in middle of Alaska called Talkeetna, AK. Use Google Maps to take a look. We are between Anchorage and Fairbanks near Denali National Park.
Jojo: I usually don't like big cities, but SG I enjoyed immensely. Stayed with an Indian family I met many years ago. Their 14 yo son took me all over the city; had a great time.
Oh, i love alaskan dog, last time i got 2 of them, but the SPCA took it away, cos its like to bite guys... -
Originally posted by angel7030:
ok ok ok,,,enuf enuf ENOUGH!!, should have known better...seibei sway...thank you thank you...Haiz, go sleep liao.Har.. then what you expect me to intro ?
Got child bearing hips and future joo chiat leading mamasan ? scratch head.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Har.. then what you expect me to intro ?
Got child bearing hips and future joo chiat leading mamasan ? scratch head.
at least say that i am a former taiwan model to be,..good shape and young, virgin and sweet..aiya, nevermind lah, this alaskian also lau lau not handsome one,...full of wrinkles liao. Think of it, better dun intro..me go clarke quay can get 2 lorries load of it -
Originally posted by angel7030:
at least say that i am a former taiwan model to be,..good shape and young, virgin and sweet..aiya, nevermind lah, this alaskian also lau lau not handsome one,...full of wrinkles liao. Think of it, better dun intro..me go clarke quay can get 2 lorries load of itLau lau alredy ? How you know ?
Like this good mah... very manly wor.... at least better than some gu nian SG mommy boy.
