105,000 homeless in Oz.How many in SG?
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Many of Singapore old ah pek and ah ma beggars are infact having growth up professional working childrens, just that most of them cannot withstand their daughter in law or their old wife nagging, one ah pek i see in my Tanjong Katong food court, alway sit there and look like never bathe, but once i saw a LEXUS came and fetch him.
Many Aunties and ah ma also same, some like to sleep outside, more comfortable, some are waiting for morning shift work, and of course some old peoples are just plain stubborn, you will be surprise that they live in private houses ok, and their bank account can beat any CEOs
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Many of Singapore old ah pek and ah ma beggars are infact having growth up professional working childrens, just that most of them cannot withstand their daughter in law or their old wife nagging, one ah pek i see in my Tanjong Katong food court, alway sit there and look like never bathe, but once i saw a LEXUS came and fetch him.
Many Aunties and ah ma also same, some like to sleep outside, more comfortable, some are waiting for morning shift work, and of course some old peoples are just plain stubborn, you will be surprise that they live in private houses ok, and their bank account can beat any CEOs
hi angel,would you like to spend a night with me in the void deck of some hdb flat?
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Originally posted by PedoBear:
hi angel,would you like to spend a night with me in the void deck of some hdb flat?
What a good question to ask! ha ha ha ha!
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Originally posted by limywv:
I'm puzzled, as to why so many people would want to defend Australia, while criticizing Singapore. 2 of my relatives were ardent advocates of migration to Oz. Well they migrated promptly after their marriages.
Both familes had their babies in Oz shortly after. However, as their children gradually grew older, they started to realize a lot of problems in the "Australian Structure". To name a few: Mediocre education, discrimination, various daily annoyances.
Thus they moved back to Singapore after a 5 year Australia stay, of course, with their heads hanging low, admitting Singapore is still the best place to live.
My opinion is that - moving to Australia can be a good thing. if you migrate during their retirement years, that is when all your children are grown up and independent.
Your sample size of ONE is not representative of the whole population.
Of the total that emigrated to Australia, how many actually moved back to Singapore.
I had a Indian friend who emigrated to Sydney, he made it to medical school and is a practicing doctor, Dr. Rajiv J.P. (formerly from ACS and ACJC). He is still staying there, obviously things are working out for him. Perhaps your relatives are under achievers (like lionnoisy), then perhaps Singapore is the better place for them.
1. If the brain drain wasn't affecting Singapore that much, then the two Lees won't have brought it up during National Day Rally, so much so, that they have to resort to importing foreigners from 3rd world countries to make up for it.
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Let's look at the facts objectively, in the near future, Singapore's population will comprise mainly of folks like lionnoisy, PRCs, Indians, Filipinos, Indonesians and Malaysians. Since the PRCs are only using Singapore as a stepping stone, it's going to be like a "revolving door immigrant", stay for a few years, exploit the generosity of the stupid Singapore government, then move on to greener pastures once the G8 immigration criteria is achieved.
MM Lee says Singapore facing brain drain problem
By Julia Ng, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 14 February 2008 0603 hrsSINGAPORE : Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew has said Singapore is facing a 'pretty serious' brain drain problem.
In an interview with the United Press International (UPI), Mr Lee said Singapore is losing about 4 to 5 percent of the top 30 percent of its population every year.
More people are going abroad for their degree courses.
The problem is, increasingly, more Singaporeans are staying on in countries like the United States.
Mr Lee said every year, some 1,000 people at the top end are giving up their citizenship. And he believes the numbers are growing.
But Singapore is making up for the brain drain by getting bright Chinese and Indians into Singapore. They are attracted by better prospects here.
But the trouble is, many of the Chinese then use Singapore as a stepping stone to go to America where "the grass is greener".
Still, Mr Lee said, Singapore will make a net gain of talents - even if it only manages to keep 30 to 40 percent of them.
In a wide-ranging interview with the Washington-based news agency, Mr Lee was also asked about US politics, including his assessment of the US presidential candidates.
The interview also touched on geo-political issues such as US engagement in Afghanistan and Pakistan.http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/328684/1/.html
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Whats the objectives for comparing really. Will OZ become better? Will SG become better? OZ is where it is today because they wanted to be that and in the process, the trade offs happen. Singapore wanted to be what it is today and in the process, compromises have been made. WHat is right and wrong?
I am a 32 year old Singaporean male who has done his NS and as usual, finish my uni only at the age of 25 and fortunately, found a job in a MNC 3 months after graduation and now I am in another MNC in a junior mgmt post. I drive a small car, has simple luxuries when I can afford it. Ah...nice right. Look at the other side of my life.
My father passed away last year so basically the household expenditures fall on me. Suddenly, things like utilities bill, water bills, TV tax, property tax etc all these things became reality to me. Every single piece of news that the government is gonna raise this and raise that became of importance to me. I fully understood the stress my father goes thru to ensure that all the basic amenities and needs are fulfiiled in this household and now it falls on me. My mother is 53 with poor health but healthy enough to work as a cleaner taking home 500+ per month. Not much, but enough to pay for her own medicines for her chronic illnesses. I pay for almost everything else in the household.
Now, I too wish that the government can do something about IT. ABOUT WHAT? ABOUT IT, YOU SAY! But what is....IT?
1. I wish the government can waive off all utilities, water bills and taxes.
2. I wish there are no GST.
3. I wish that I can buy a car for $10K instead of $70K.
4. I wish public transport can be cheaper or at least cost lesser than going to the public toilet.
5. I wish i do not have to work this hard and government just give me $2000 every month to supplement my income so I can enjoy my life.
6. I wish i was the government.
7. I wish many things.....
I am definitely by no means poor. I cannot even by any standards call myself NEEDY. My family doesnt earn alot, I wish my mother could be healthier. I wish the government could reduce my load so I could give more money to my mum and she doesnt have to work. But in the process of struggling, i have learnt the only way to happiness in Singapore. That only way is WHEN YOU CHOOSE to be happy. To be contented. To fight for it. Not complain about it. Not demanding someone else to give you it.
I know Singapore has many people who needs help. But I felt dismayed when in the article above when the man, a mere 50 years old, earning $800 a month, meaning he is able to work, DEMANDS that the government SHOULD give him more money. Unfortunately, that is not gonna happen. And fortunately that will not happen because try giving this man more money and see whether he will work for his living.
There are poor people in Singapore and there is no denying that. But there are the genuinely POOR people who deserves help and the POOR people who deserves to be POOR.
As for me, I am not rich but I am not POOR because I know I am working my ass off to fight for my right to survive in this society, not just me, my mother at 53 also knew that and she is not complaining.
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Pure numbers alone dun give meaning.105 000 is alot. But in percentage form, it is small.
105 000 out of 21 million (2009 est) is 0.005%.
Take this percentage for a population for 4 million. The answer is just 200.
Go figure the rest urself, dudes .... -
Folks who show no empathy for the deprived of society is obviously clueless to the idea of market failures and economic policies (certain economic policies can exhalt certain economic agents while depriving others). They are selfish like Wee Shu Min and only care about what they themselves as individuals can derive from the economy, while casting aside the less privilege of society. Perhaps individuals like these would think that these rejects (not economically viable) should be left to die as swift as time permits and not cause a hindrance to the economy. Perhaps individuals like these also think that the handicapped should be left to their own and not cause a hindrance to their wealth.
Ok. Get out of my elite uncaring face!!!
It's only me me me I care about!!!
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Originally posted by gasband:
Whats the objectives for comparing really. Will OZ become better? Will SG become better? OZ is where it is today because they wanted to be that and in the process, the trade offs happen. Singapore wanted to be what it is today and in the process, compromises have been made. WHat is right and wrong?
I am a 32 year old Singaporean male who has done his NS and as usual, finish my uni only at the age of 25 and fortunately, found a job in a MNC 3 months after graduation and now I am in another MNC in a junior mgmt post. I drive a small car, has simple luxuries when I can afford it. Ah...nice right. Look at the other side of my life.
My father passed away last year so basically the household expenditures fall on me. Suddenly, things like utilities bill, water bills, TV tax, property tax etc all these things became reality to me. Every single piece of news that the government is gonna raise this and raise that became of importance to me. I fully understood the stress my father goes thru to ensure that all the basic amenities and needs are fulfiiled in this household and now it falls on me. My mother is 53 with poor health but healthy enough to work as a cleaner taking home 500+ per month. Not much, but enough to pay for her own medicines for her chronic illnesses. I pay for almost everything else in the household.
Now, I too wish that the government can do something about IT. ABOUT WHAT? ABOUT IT, YOU SAY! But what is....IT?
1. I wish the government can waive off all utilities, water bills and taxes.
2. I wish there are no GST.
3. I wish that I can buy a car for $10K instead of $70K.
4. I wish public transport can be cheaper or at least cost lesser than going to the public toilet.
5. I wish i do not have to work this hard and government just give me $2000 every month to supplement my income so I can enjoy my life.
6. I wish i was the government.
7. I wish many things.....
I am definitely by no means poor. I cannot even by any standards call myself NEEDY. My family doesnt earn alot, I wish my mother could be healthier. I wish the government could reduce my load so I could give more money to my mum and she doesnt have to work. But in the process of struggling, i have learnt the only way to happiness in Singapore. That only way is WHEN YOU CHOOSE to be happy. To be contented. To fight for it. Not complain about it. Not demanding someone else to give you it.
I know Singapore has many people who needs help. But I felt dismayed when in the article above when the man, a mere 50 years old, earning $800 a month, meaning he is able to work, DEMANDS that the government SHOULD give him more money. Unfortunately, that is not gonna happen. And fortunately that will not happen because try giving this man more money and see whether he will work for his living.
There are poor people in Singapore and there is no denying that. But there are the genuinely POOR people who deserves help and the POOR people who deserves to be POOR.
As for me, I am not rich but I am not POOR because I know I am working my ass off to fight for my right to survive in this society, not just me, my mother at 53 also knew that and she is not complaining.
practical person
You will do well
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Originally posted by eagle:
practical person
You will do well
Did you read the whole of his post?
He is suggesting that the old and decrepit be left to their own defences. He thinks that the government should not give out minimum sustenance allowance to the old who can't make ends meet.
The reason why some less educated and elderly can't find work, or sufficient wages from work to make ends meet is the result of the government's policy of having a high level of foreign workers to saturate the Singapore market, so that they can drive down wages to compete with emerging economies. If you look around Singapore, the majority of low level wages are taken over by foreigners, these foreigners with a lower cost based at home (SG$100 in China is RMB 460), really work for peanuts (they are not the kind of peanuts our Ministers are getting
), 4-6 foreign workers can sleep in ONE HDB ROOM. Maybe we should squeeze all these poor SINGAPOREAN uncles and aunties into a HDB room like we do these foreign workers. I don't think the elderly person is asking for a car or a condo to complement his lifestyle like what gasband wants, it's more like providing them with a minimum level of sustenance, it's the basic right under the UN charter to provide basic food, shelter and medical to everybody. -
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
- Article 25
- Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights
But then again, what human rights are we talking about, this is Singapore.
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It's a sad thing to see Singapore maturing into an advanced economy, yet the social empathy lacks behind, kind of like stuck in the 19th century China. Maybe it's because of our lineage (China) that we end up being selfish and empathy lacking like gasband.
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If you have read my whole post, I said "There are poor who deserves help and there are poor who deserves to be poor." I do not know how you would be able to infer that I am suggesting that everyone should be left to their own devices. But well, whatever rocks your boat. I am a person who believes that if someone out there I think I can help, I do it, I dun talk about it.
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Originally posted by gasband:
If you have read my whole post, I said "There are poor who deserves help and there are poor who deserves to be poor." I do not know how you would be able to infer that I am suggesting that everyone should be left to their own devices. But well, whatever rocks your boat. I am a person who believes that if someone out there I think I can help, I do it, I dun talk about it.
Why do you think that a 50 year old man making $800 a month, find it difficult to make ends meet, "demand" that the government does something to help him is so wrong? Turn the tables around, if you happen to be a 50 y.o. with just a kid (let's not talk about elderly parents), won't you also wish that the government render some help to you.A 50 y.o. could have elderly parents and kids to feed, it's not like your scenario where your mom is not the sole bread winner in the household. Don't pass judgement so quickly without knowing the full details of the story.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Why do you think that a 50 year old man making $800 a month, find it difficult to make ends meet, "demand" that the government does something to help him is so wrong? Turn the tables around, if you happen to be a 50 y.o. with just a kid (let's not talk about elderly parents), won't you also wish that the government render some help to you.A 50 y.o. could have elderly parents and kids to feed, it's not like your scenario where your mom is not the sole bread winner in the household. Don't pass judgement so quickly without knowing the full details of the story.
Well I apologise if you think I am passing judgement on this 50yr old man. But I would like to say that you too are passing judgement that his 50yr old man truly needs help.
I dun know about you, you possibly could have seen more than me. But I can only share with I see. I see people who needs help. I see old people staying alone in Jalan Kukoh and they die without anyone knowing. I see old people who stays alone, does not have legs, and their eyes lighten up when I bring their meals to them. These people deserves help.
I see people who is a single mother, has 5 children, and when the CDC found them a job at as a cleaner, she complains its too far. I see people who when social workers bring them groceries like rice and canned food, complains that he wants a certain brand of luncheon meat. I see people who is educated and jobless, refuse to work as service personnel because it is a "low class" job. These people are poor too. Do they deserve the government to give them money. Do they have the RIGHT to demand help?
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Originally posted by gasband:
Well I apologise if you think I am passing judgement on this 50yr old man. But I would like to say that you too are passing judgement that his 50yr old man truly needs help.
I dun know about you, you possibly could have seen more than me. But I can only share with I see. I see people who needs help. I see old people staying alone in Jalan Kukoh and they die without anyone knowing. I see old people who stays alone, does not have legs, and their eyes lighten up when I bring their meals to them. These people deserves help.
I see people who is a single mother, has 5 children, and when the CDC found them a job at as a cleaner, she complains its too far. I see people who when social workers bring them groceries like rice and canned food, complains that he wants a certain brand of luncheon meat. I see people who is educated and jobless, refuse to work as service personnel because it is a "low class" job. These people are poor too. Do they deserve the government to give them money. Do they have the RIGHT to demand help?
Without full knowledge of this 50 y.o. man's condition, I rather err on the side that grants him the benefit of the doubt rather than one that brands him as a exploitative conman, afterall $800 a month is hardly sufficient based on average Singaporean standards.
If they are educated and they perceive certain jobs not of equivalent calibre compared to their qualification, then they have a right to choose, if they have run out of savings, then they have to accept any job that come their way. The two issues are different, we are talking about a man who has a low paying job trying to make ends meet, not about a man of higher qualification seeking a higher level job. Surely everybody has their own perspective on the kind of job they wish to do, they have a choice to choose their jobs.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Did you read the whole of his post?
He is suggesting that the old and decrepit be left to their own defences. He thinks that the government should not give out minimum sustenance allowance to the old who can't make ends meet.
The reason why some less educated and elderly can't find work, or sufficient wages from work to make ends meet is the result of the government's policy of having a high level of foreign workers to saturate the Singapore market, so that they can drive down wages to compete with emerging economies. If you look around Singapore, the majority of low level wages are taken over by foreigners, these foreigners with a lower cost based at home (SG$100 in China is RMB 460), really work for peanuts (they are not the kind of peanuts our Ministers are getting
), 4-6 foreign workers can sleep
in ONE HDB ROOM. Maybe we should squeeze all these poor
SINGAPOREAN uncles and aunties into a HDB room like we do these
foreign workers. I don't think the elderly person is
asking for a car or a condo to complement his lifestyle like what
gasband wants, it's more like providing them with a minimum level
of sustenance, it's the basic right under the UN charter to provide
basic food, shelter and medical to everybody.Actually I only read the 7 points listed and the last paragraph... my bad
The rest never really read deep because too lazy... and also busy...
Like actually, I only read the first sentence of your post after you quoted me... never read anything else
But giving people encouragement and verbal praise never cost anything to me mah :D
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Ok, whatever rocks your boat. I am in here to just offer my opinions. Not here to change the world.
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HEY ANGEL....
HOW??WHEN U MOVING TO A LIVING ROOM IN A HDB VOID DECK??U CAN INVITE EVERYONE INTO YER LIVING ROOM AND DINING ROOM....WAA.....SUCH A BIG PLACE!!HOW I ENVY U!
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TO LIMYW:
SO WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM IN SPORE AFTER COMING BACK FROM OZ???DO THEY GO BACK TO OZ AFTER THAT?
I KNOW OF A FEW PEOPLE EVEN MALAYSIANS WHO CAME BACK TO SPORE AFTER SPENDING AROUND 5 YEARS IN OZ.THE MAIN REASON WAS NO JOB PROSPECTS AND THEIR DEGREE FROM OZ DUN HELP MUCH EITHER.
HOWEVER OZ IS GOOD IF U INTEND TO STARTUP A FACTORY PRODUCING THINGS OR WHERE U NEED AN ACRE OR MORE LAND TO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT FROM SCRATCH AND IDEAS TO BUILD WITH A VAST LAND.U CANT DO THIS IS SPORE EVEN WITH GOVERNMENT HELP.ND WITH GOV HELP...THE RED TAPE WILL KILL OF ALL IDEAS AND PROTOTYPING IN ANY WORKSHOP.
IF U INTEND TO GO THERE WITH NO IDEAS N THINK A GOOD STABLE JOB IS WAITING....THEN JOIN THEIR OZ ARMY OR DIE A POOR MAN IN OZ.
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New Straits Times
October11, 2003
Periscope: By Yusman Ahmad
Given the absence of unemployment benefits and a lack of welfare aid, and nothing in their wallets, a growing number of Singaporeans are being forced to give up their homes and seek alternative accommodation. Also hit are those in the income bracket of S$400 a month. Their numbers, according to government data, stand at 180,650 workers or about nine per cent of the workforce. While many of the luckier ones have been able to move in with their relatives or to cheaper accommodation, there are a number that have been forced to seek shelter in the open — in parks, under bridges and vacant areas. The couple under the bridge, for instance, once had a three-room flat in the Toa Payoh Housing Estate. But since the husband lost his storekeeper job nearly three years ago, the couple had to endure life first without electricity and water, and subsequently their home. Most of the money that they received from the sale of their flats went back to their Central Provident Fund account, while the rest was used to pay for the utility bills. Like the couple, most Singaporeans have debts and are compelled to pay utility charges and mortgages on their homes each month.
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw03/031011ns.htm
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Culture is different between Australia and Singapore. In Singapore we have kids that are 40-50 years old still living with parents, while in Australia after they have reached a certain age they moved out of their parent's home (like in USA).
lionnoisy, are you still living with your parents?
Ooops....I forgot you are a regular with SAF, can get free chalet accomodation from government.
If you kick out all those Singaporeans above 21 y.o. who are still living with their parents. I wonder how many homeless Singapore will have.
"The good news is that all the studies indicate that generally things settle down when people are about 18. What they can't agree on is why this gets better. Some say it's because your parents have finally begun to see you as the young adult you are. Some say it's because you've worked through all the tough growth in your thinking and emotions and your physical changes. Others again, say it's just because many young people move out of home around eighteen and get away from their parents!"
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=240&np=296&id=2073
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Originally posted by limywv:
I'm puzzled, as to why so many people would want to defend Australia, while criticizing Singapore. 2 of my relatives were ardent advocates of migration to Oz. Well they migrated promptly after their marriages.
Both familes had their babies in Oz shortly after. However, as their children gradually grew older, they started to realize a lot of problems in the "Australian Structure". To name a few: Mediocre education, discrimination, various daily annoyances.
Thus they moved back to Singapore after a 5 year Australia stay, of course, with their heads hanging low, admitting Singapore is still the best place to live.
My opinion is that - moving to Australia can be a good thing. if you migrate during their retirement years, that is when all your children are grown up and independent.
I stayed in Australia for 8 years (1 year as international student, 7 years as a tax paying resident) ....no problems leh. Making money, have an apartment, studying happily....still in Australia ...haven't run back to Singapore yet ....intention not there.
Moving to Australia is a good thing if you don't expect to depend on the government. You only depend on yourself . I only moved there because I have a better safety net there , should anything happen. Career opportunities galore there.
Don't want mediocre education? Pay for private school - who ask you to go public if you want the best for your kids. The cleaner in the Australian hospital I worked in , she has 2 jobs to support her 2 kids through private school to give them the best education in life. If she can do it in Australia, anyone can do it.
Medicare - whinny because you have to wait 6 hours to see a doctor in ED - who ask you to go to ED when it is not an emergency ? At least ED visits are free in Australia. Not wait 3 hours and pay . Wards in public hospitals are like standard B1. Free stay somemore but can't choose doctor. Want to jump waiting list? ok...PAY.
Discrimination? Money makes everyone colorblind. And your relatives probably don't know how to fight back. Minority has its privileges....you just need to know what it is. Some people quit too easy. They think migration is a way to quit their problems in Singapore, not as a means to better their lives through thick or thin.
If you want everything the best, PAY.
If you just want to make the best of your situation, don't pay ...just make the best of your situation. I make the best of my situation , look out for opportunities and make the best out of it. Don't have a million dollars but hey I am happy.
World is like that. Same in Singapore. Same in Australia except healthcare is freeeeee.
If any one think that Australia is going to be a luxury country for free and be a whining leech, please don't come with your delusions ...don't want anyone to suck up my tax money ...I like claiming it back and I like Centrelink to be around when I need it, not that I need Centrelink anyways.
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The wait in Singapore A&E isn't that short either, 1-2 hours and you still have to pay $80.