do u think singaporean should go to malaysia to shop???
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It is veri interesting to see how this topic has become. So the question is whether we shall spend in Malaysia or Spore?Originally posted by Atobe:If Singapore believe in the "Free Market Economy" - in which "Supply and Demand" determine the price, then this principle should be allowed to determine the actual prices of properties, wages, prices of Goods and Services, COE's, Public Transport, and all other essentials and non-essentials.
The Singapore market is regulated by the Government to the point that the high prices of properties in Singapore must continuoulsy be kept high.
If ever the property prices are allowed to slide, many banks will have worthless mortgages in their possession.
With property prices kept artificially high, one will never see the other prices of Goods and Services ever falling.
Our wages will also have to be kept high, or it will be a hot potato for the Government, who will have to face an impoverished electorate that is held to ransom by the Banks.
So the vicious cycles go on, with the Citizens being a slave for the rest of their lives to the Government-Bank Partnership.
Nationalism first ? Read my earlier post
I have no idea how my comment have turn into "So the vicious cycles go on, with the Citizens being a slave for the rest of their lives to the Government-Bank Partnership."
Wat I trying to comment is btw spend in spore and malaysia, it will help us more if we spend in spore. As it will keep job and possibly create new jobs.
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Originally posted by eskyzone:
Sure, your point make sense.
It is veri interesting to see how this topic has become. So the question is whether we shall spend in Malaysia or Spore?
I have no idea how my comment have turn into "[b]So the vicious cycles go on, with the Citizens being a slave for the rest of their lives to the Government-Bank Partnership."
Wat I trying to comment is btw spend in spore and malaysia, it will help us more if we spend in spore. As it will keep job and possibly create new jobs. [/b]
Thanks for not reading more into my post, and for throwing the point back for clarification.
The point of my post is that spending our money internally, it goes on to feed the vicious cycle of "money chasing money", and only chasing (or consuming) the internally and artificially created high prices of all products that were mentioned.
By spending our money outside Singapore, there will certainly be outflow.
However, with our strong dollar - we get a bigger purchasing power that buys more of the same products while using less of our dollar - perhaps leaving some for "creating" jobs in Singapore (?).
The outflow of our dollar will help generate wealth in our neighbors' economy, who in turn will buy some of our QUALITY goods that they cannot manufacture.
This will result in an inflow of wealth that maybe larger then what our outflow was.
This was originally expounded by our first Singaporean Economist - Dr Goh Keng Swee - who dismantled all our poulty, pigs, agricultural farms and got us to industrialised, while leaving these high intensive labor and land products to our neighboring countries.
If we only consume what we earned internally, and earn money from ourselves, over time, we can only be the poorer.
Our present economic problem is largely due to the fact that we do not have a critical mass of strong local industrial base, with strong in R & D that produces innovative products that earn us foreign exchange.
Compare our industrila base with that of Taiwan and Korea, who are the closest economic standards with us. -
Your point is valid.
While indeed it will be better for local businesses if we did keep our money in Singapore and shop here, we must realize that
a) NTUC still sells stuff more expensive in Singapore than in Malaysia. And we are talking apples to apples. Goods imported from USA, CHina, etc in both countries are cheaper in Malaysia. Like my example of the simple Halls sweets. It costs 20% more expensive in SIngapore. WHY?
b) Why should I help NTUC or any other GLC or MNC when they drove the small mom-pop shop out of business. They did it by offering cheaper prices and killed the mom-pop shops. Now that they are on the receiving end, we need to show them sympathy? We should have done so 20 years ago. I will buy water and small stuff from small family owned groceries shops. But if it is a choice between Giant, NTUC, Cold Storage in Singapore vs the same in Malaysia, I will go to where I get the best deal.
c) I will shop in NTUC, Cold Storage etc if they hire Singaporeans. However, most of the shops I go to in Singapore hire malaysians and other FW to man the store. So I see no difference in helping a company who also in turn help Malaysia. May as well help Malaysia directly and get a good bargain as well.
Patriotism is a few plates of char koay teow to pay our ministers more (for them to be incorruptible, but doesn't mean we get better minister) but if you are asked to pay for 50 plates of char koay teow per month MORE by spending in Singapore, that is too much -
Originally posted by CX:
from the way it seems here, i'ld say the answer to that is: it depends who u disagree with
there are compelling reasons to both go and not go... depends on which perspective strikes a chord with u...
what i think is, its quite a contradiction that the needy are not able to gain access to the cost savings available across the causeway but those who can afford it are more than able to do it even though they don't need it
thats why i think its strange when people complain that they [b]need to go JB to shop cos its TOO expensive here
yeah right... got money buy car, no money buy groceries in Sg...
[/b]
Is there compelling reasons not to go malaysia or any other place to shop for anyone in this world and hence hurting own pocket?
The needy are not able to gain access to the cost savings across the causeway? Are you sure? Thousands of singaporean flock through the causeway everyday and you mean they have car at home but just don't want to drive in? My singaporean friends always had hard time crossing due to the long queue and crowd of singaporeans and they are not rich. You mean there are so much rich people in singapore?
Anyway, i think it's pointless to debate such an issue when it's the singapore government who do the call.
In such bad economic situation, if you can save, you better save. Don't be stupid. -
try it yourself... join the causeway queue, buy tons of stuff, lug them back by public transport... quite siong rightOriginally posted by MYPR: Is there compelling reasons not to go malaysia or any other place to shop for anyone in this world and hence hurting own pocket?
The needy are not able to gain access to the cost savings across the causeway? Are you sure? Thousands of singaporean flock through the causeway everyday and you mean they have car at home but just don't want to drive in? My singaporean friends always had hard time crossing due to the long queue and crowd of singaporeans and they are not rich. You mean there are so much rich people in singapore?
Anyway, i think it's pointless to debate such an issue when it's the singapore government who do the call.
In such bad economic situation, if you can save, you better save. Don't be stupid.
and if u own a car, u can't be THAT poor...
imagine someone living in pasir ris, who doesn't own a car. thats an extreme case of course... thats essentially what i mean when i say its not always viable to go JB and shop even though it may be cheaper.
i won't go if i have no transport... its too much trouble. -
Well, i do drive and i do buy tons of stuff from malaysia cos i cross over the causeway every weekend. As for singaporean joining the long long causeway queue, i do not know how are you going to explain it. But i do not think they buy tons of stuff from malaysia. They cross the causeway just to spend over in malaysia (movie, hairdo, makan, shopping, tour, fun etc) and not to buy stuff back in bulk but maybe some items that they can carry e.g. fashion stuff, gift etc which is cheaper over there.Originally posted by CX:try it yourself... join the causeway queue, buy tons of stuff, lug them back by public transport... quite siong right
and if u own a car, u can't be THAT poor...
imagine someone living in pasir ris, who doesn't own a car. thats an extreme case of course... thats essentially what i mean when i say its not always viable to go JB and shop even though it may be cheaper.
i won't go if i have no transport... its too much trouble. -
atobe... your latest reply to my post is complete nonsensical and full of garbage...
you should read all your post and double check your reading... your answers are way off... -
that queue is gonna get pretty much much longer... soon...Originally posted by CX:try it yourself... join the causeway queue, buy tons of stuff, lug them back by public transport... quite siong right
and if u own a car, u can't be THAT poor...
imagine someone living in pasir ris, who doesn't own a car. thats an extreme case of course... thats essentially what i mean when i say its not always viable to go JB and shop even though it may be cheaper.
i won't go if i have no transport... its too much trouble. -
Originally posted by Atobe:Sure, your point make sense.
Thanks for not reading more into my post, and for throwing the point back for clarification.
The point of my post is that spending our money internally, it goes on to feed the vicious cycle of "money chasing money", and only chasing (or consuming) the internally and artificially created high prices of all products that were mentioned.
By spending our money outside Singapore, there will certainly be outflow.
it is an outflow...
However, with our strong dollar - we get a bigger purchasing power that buys more of the same products while using less of our dollar this is economic observation...
- perhaps leaving some for "creating" jobs in Singapore (?). this is .... simi lai eh?
The outflow of our dollar will help generate wealth in our neighbors' economy, who in turn will buy some of our QUALITY goods that they cannot manufacture. there is no guarantee of that!... and we dont live in a world of 2 economy...
This will result in an inflow of wealth that maybe larger then what our outflow was. GU... SAI....
This was originally expounded by our first Singaporean Economist - Dr Goh Keng Swee - who dismantled all our poulty, pigs, agricultural farms and got us to industrialised, while leaving these high intensive labor and land products to our neighboring countries. that is basic lah... the key in his head then was industrialization... through foreign investment... which would generate inflow... the pig farms are the stumbling block.. so he kicked them out...
If we only consume what we earned internally, and earn money from ourselves, over time, we can only be the poorer. like north korea?
Our present economic problem is largely due to the fact that we do not have a critical mass of strong local industrial base, with strong in R & D that produces innovative products that earn us foreign exchange. oh... i think we have critical mass of local industrial base... just that... we over invested in electronics...
Compare our industrila base with that of Taiwan and Korea, who are the closest economic standards with us. -
Originally posted by kenhor:Your point is valid.
While indeed it will be better for local businesses if we did keep our money in Singapore and shop here, we must realize that
a) NTUC still sells stuff more expensive in Singapore than in Malaysia. And we are talking apples to apples. Goods imported from USA, CHina, etc in both countries are cheaper in Malaysia. Like my example of the simple Halls sweets. It costs 20% more expensive in SIngapore. WHY? because here in singapore... they face a difference cost? isit just NTUC or even your local mama shop also sell the sweet 20% more?
b) Why should I help NTUC or any other GLC or MNC when they drove the small mom-pop shop out of business. They did it by offering cheaper prices and killed the mom-pop shops. Now that they are on the receiving end, we need to show them sympathy? We should have done so 20 years ago. I will buy water and small stuff from small family owned groceries shops. But if it is a choice between Giant, NTUC, Cold Storage in Singapore vs the same in Malaysia, I will go to where I get the best deal. NTUC and other GLC drove your mom-pop shop out of buisness... WHILE INCREDIBLY... the presence of hypermarts across the causeway charging at far lower price then local NTUC DONT?? 
someone lost a screw?
c) I will shop in NTUC, Cold Storage etc if they hire Singaporeans. However, most of the shops I go to in Singapore hire malaysians and other FW to man the store. So I see no difference in helping a company who also in turn help Malaysia. May as well help Malaysia directly and get a good bargain as well. if NTUC hires only locals... would you still go to shop at NTUC if they have to now charge your sweet at 40% higher then in malaysia to offset the cost of hiring local??
Patriotism is a few plates of char koay teow to pay our ministers more (for them to be incorruptible, but doesn't mean we get better minister) but if you are asked to pay for 50 plates of char koay teow per month MORE by spending in Singapore, that is too much so... you like to contradict yourself.... i see.... -
I find it amazing that anyone can walk away by posting "one liners" as a response to dig (without cause) into issues seriously posted, and serves only to befuddle a clearly thought out case.
:
Originally posted by kenhor:
Your point is valid.
While indeed it will be better for local businesses if we did keep our money in Singapore and shop here, we must realize that
a) NTUC still sells stuff more expensive in Singapore than in Malaysia. And we are talking apples to apples. Goods imported from USA, CHina, etc in both countries are cheaper in Malaysia. Like my example of the simple Halls sweets. It costs 20% more expensive in SIngapore. WHY?
because here in singapore... they face a difference cost? isit just NTUC or even your local mama shop also sell the sweet 20% more? Do you think that the local mama shop is selling 20% more then the NTUC stores and challenging NTUC for supremacy and market dominance ?
Is the mama shop forming a larger chain of SINGLE ownership stores across the Singapore Island, or just a small ambition in serving the IMMEDIATE neighborhood blocks ?
Did the "mama store" make any declared "corporate policy" of serving the needs of the Public with LOWER PRICED Consumer Products so as to help in LOWERING the COST of LIVING ?
b) Why should I help NTUC or any other GLC or MNC when they drove the small mom-pop shop out of business. They did it by offering cheaper prices and killed the mom-pop shops. Now that they are on the receiving end, we need to show them sympathy? We should have done so 20 years ago. I will buy water and small stuff from small family owned groceries shops. But if it is a choice between Giant, NTUC, Cold Storage in Singapore vs the same in Malaysia, I will go to where I get the best deal. NTUC and other GLC drove your mom-pop shop out of buisness... WHILE INCREDIBLY... the presence of hypermarts across the causeway charging at far lower price then local NTUC DONT?? someone lost a screw? Following your INCREDIBLE manner of reasoning and extension of any argument, we might as well indicate that all the hypermarkets beyond the shores of Singapore should be a threat to the local mama shop as well.
The IMMEDIATE threat to the local original mom and pop provision shop, and your mama shop, is from NTUC and its pervasive strategy to swamp even the TRADITIONAL neighborhood provision shops with its even SMALLER Econ-Minimart and Fairprice Outlets, and now Cheers.
The high membership fees that NTUC charges for the "mom and pop" provision stores to come on board their band wagon, does not help these smaller stores in anyway.
c) I will shop in NTUC, Cold Storage etc if they hire Singaporeans. However, most of the shops I go to in Singapore hire malaysians and other FW to man the store. So I see no difference in helping a company who also in turn help Malaysia. May as well help Malaysia directly and get a good bargain as well. if NTUC hires only locals... would you still go to shop at NTUC if they have to now charge your sweet at 40% higher then in malaysia to offset the cost of hiring local??
Patriotism is a few plates of char koay teow to pay our ministers more (for them to be incorruptible, but doesn't mean we get better minister) but if you are asked to pay for 50 plates of char koay teow per month MORE by spending in Singapore, that is too much You seem to be purposefully arguing for the sake of an argument, without understanding the thrust of the post that the writer has made, and befuddle the issues of the original post, as the argument develop over the next few days.
The original point that "kenhor" posted was a reply to your post, and that was despite NTUC employing lower salaried Malaysian Workers, prices of NTUC Products are 40% higher - than those found in similar sized Supermarkets and Hypermarkets across the border in JB.
Do you think that the prices of NTUC will be any cheaper if Singaporeans are employed ?
Concerning the Ministers' Pay from "a few plates of char kway teow", do you think that the Ministers' Pay is justified when the economic performance of this country has always been said to be ENTIRELY dependent on EXTERNAL World Events, which are BEYOND the control or influence of our Ministers ?
Do you think that our Ministers should be paid more then George Bush, when the Singapore Economy is dependent more on what the US$150,000 salaried George Bush does, then what our Million Dollar Salaried Ministers can do for Singapore's Economy ?
Do you think that the Ministers' Pay should be 100 to 1000 times more then the average Singaporean Wages, and relevant to the Cost of and the Standard of Living in Singapore ?
The original reason behind this policy and that was subsequently NEVER pushed further to the surface was that Ministers "create the environment" for all businesses to make profit (?). Therefore, the Ministers Pay should be equal to the highest paid C.E.O's and worked out from an AVERAGE of all the HIGHEST salary paid to CEOs.
This argument is controversial and amazing in itself.
The original values of "Pride in Personal Sacrifice" and "Honor of Office" is no longer privilege enough in holding Public Office.
At the risks of threading on those big toes, it is unfortunate that the only difference between Singapore and the other "supposedly" corrupt countries, is that everything is done by giving it a face of legitimacy through legislation; no matter how unreasonable the law maybe.
BTW if the CEO of a small little COMFORT is paid a Million Dollar salary, how much do you think the CEO of NTUC FairPrice is paid with your shopping contributions of high priced NTUC products that originate from Malaysia ?
so... you like to contradict yourself.... i see.... "One liners" do not help in making your arguments any clearer, and only serves to be provocative and controversial, without helping to make your position known.
It is tantamount to throwing mud and stones out of mischief, when looking at someone's work of art, simply because you cannot paint the picture any better. -
The problem with "one liner" type of response, is that it drags your argument to the surface across several postings and over several days; and which finally reveal your true intent but at the EXPENSE of losing the original thread.Originally posted by tripwire:atobe... your latest reply to my post is complete nonsensical and full of garbage...
you should read all your post and double check your reading... your answers are way off...
Dealing with your point by point "single line" post is tiresome, but pose a new challenge to find out your true intent behind those seemingly smart arguments that leads to no where.
Should I summarize the course that you took with your line of arguments from the points that you posted, in your critique to my originating point of views ?
I welcome any alternative views that are clearly stated - even if it is provacatively personal; but "one liners" - that states nothing and only resemble efforts to deface someone's carefully thought out "work of art" - can only be labelled as being useless mischief. -
to tripwire,
You said in response to my post
a) because here in singapore... they face a difference cost?
b) is it just NTUC or even your local mama shop also sell the sweet 20% more?
The NTUC and the local grocery store sells the product at the same price. I see no added value that NTUC offers to the consumers. And how come only food and basic clothing is cheaper in Malaysia? You can buy electronics goods in both countries and find that its cheaper HERE. How do they keep the prices low while NTUC can't do the same for the food?
NTUC and other GLC drove your mom-pop shop out of buisness... WHILE INCREDIBLY... the presence of hypermarts across the causeway charging at far lower price then local NTUC DONT?? someone lost a screw?
The local neighbourhood grocery stores were wiped out during the 80s. The surviving ones are a remnant. So now the Malaysians in Johore are taking on NTUC. And good for them I say.
if NTUC hires only locals... would you still go to shop at NTUC if they have to now charge your sweet at 40% higher then in malaysia to offset the cost of hiring local??
If they want to charge 40% more for a sweet because of local staff, then they are stupid. After all, our electronics goods are cheaper than Malaysia's. How come our food is more expensive? We can go to any shop in town and buy it list price and still it will be cheaper than Malaysia. And those shops are locals. So how come locals in that segment can compete while food cant?
The Mai Ling pork has a shelf life of 3 years. So that is no spoilage or use by date. Same goes for shampoo etc. Yet those are cheaper in Malaysia. Like I said, we are being fleeced by the NTUC.
so... you like to contradict yourself.... i see....
So you like personal attacks .... I see .... -
I find it amazing that anyone can walk away by posting "one liners" as a response to dig (without cause) into issues seriously posted, and serves only to befuddle a clearly thought out case. i find it similarly so amazing that anyone could read with their eyes close and insist that we dig into their reponse seriously when it makes no sense....
Do you think that the local mama shop is selling 20% more then the NTUC stores and challenging NTUC for supremacy and market dominance ? see what i mean?? since when did i say that local mama shop is selling 20% more then NTUC store?? you never open your eyes when you read....
Is the mama shop forming a larger chain of SINGLE ownership stores across the Singapore Island, or just a small ambition in serving the IMMEDIATE neighborhood blocks ? and you points is??
Did the "mama store" make any declared "corporate policy" of serving the needs of the Public with LOWER PRICED Consumer Products so as to help in LOWERING the COST of LIVING ? wat does the last 2 points gotta to do with mama store competitive edge discussion over NTUC?? the right to charge higher price??
Following your INCREDIBLE manner of reasoning and extension of any argument, we might as well indicate that all the hypermarkets beyond the shores of Singapore should be a threat to the local mama shop as well. ours... is an open economy.... i find your position very very very contradictory... on the one hand, you lament that NTUC is driving local mama shops into closing shop with its lower price... while hypermarts in Johor, which charge lower price then NTUC could not be a threat to local mama shop??
The IMMEDIATE threat to the local original mom and pop provision shop, and your mama shop, is from NTUC and its pervasive strategy to swamp even the TRADITIONAL neighborhood provision shops with its even SMALLER Econ-Minimart and Fairprice Outlets, and now Cheers. you sure you singaporean?? Cheers product is more expensive and its operated in a franchais manner... Econ-Minimart is part of the PSC chain... not NTUC chain...
The high membership fees that NTUC charges for the "mom and pop" provision stores to come on board their band wagon, does not help these smaller stores in anyway. NTUC does not offer mama shops to join their band wagon... why should it?? when it already have franchais Cheers and supermarts in most of the major towns??
You seem to be purposefully arguing for the sake of an argument, without understanding the thrust of the post that the writer has made, and befuddle the issues of the original post, as the argument develop over the next few days. dont act smart lah... you are the one who is reading with eyes closed... no wonder everything looks fuzzy to you 
The original point that "kenhor" posted was a reply to your post, and that was despite NTUC employing lower salaried Malaysian Workers, prices of NTUC Products are 40% higher - than those found in similar sized Supermarkets and Hypermarkets across the border in JB. you imply that NTUC only have malaysian workers?? you imply that malaysian workers who work in singapore will happily take the same pay as when they are in malaysia?? you imply that there are no administrative and taxations for exmploying foreigners.. you implying that..other then workers.. NTUC also pay malaysian rent, bills and other cost while in singapore?? you are really really thick......
Do you think that the prices of NTUC will be any cheaper if Singaporeans are employed ? man does not eat bread alone... likewise... labor is not the only cost factor of NTUC...surely you must realise such simplistic economic reasoning....
Concerning the Ministers' Pay from "a few plates of char kway teow", do you think that the Ministers' Pay is justified when the economic performance of this country has always been said to be ENTIRELY dependent on EXTERNAL World Events, which are BEYOND the control or influence of our Ministers ? now we are into the minister's pay.... you really really can grow branches... i chop liow... you grow somemore... while singapore's econmic performance is indeed heavily dependent (NOT ENTIRELY LAH) on external events... we are not completely without choices, options and remedies... the pay of the ministers are pegged to 2/3 of private sector... their pay is a reflection of their value in the private sector.. and is based on their opportunity cost in joining the govt sector.. undoubtedly... how the private sector pays their head boss is questionable... but then i hope to see future transparancies in this area... 
Do you think that our Ministers should be paid more then George Bush, when the Singapore Economy is dependent more on what the US$150,000 salaried George Bush does, then what our Million Dollar Salaried Ministers can do for Singapore's Economy ? george bush official pay is US$150,000 dollar.. but do you know the other perks of being the US president?? and all the benefits after he steps down as president?? it aint cheap you know??
Do you think that the Ministers' Pay should be 100 to 1000 times more then the average Singaporean Wages, and relevant to the Cost of and the Standard of Living in Singapore ? since govt pay is linked to private sector.....do you think your boss should be paid 500 times to 5000 times more then the average singaporean wages??
The original reason behind this policy and that was subsequently NEVER pushed further to the surface was that Ministers "create the environment" for all businesses to make profit (?). Therefore, the Ministers Pay should be equal to the highest paid C.E.O's and worked out from an AVERAGE of all the HIGHEST salary paid to CEOs.
This argument is controversial and amazing in itself.
The original values of "Pride in Personal Sacrifice" and "Honor of Office" is no longer privilege enough in holding Public Office. comeon lah.... pride and honor cannot totally replace the potential cost... if i am being paid 500,000 dollars a month in private sector... even if i have pride and honor in holding public office for a 5000 dollar salary... i wonder over 3 critical points... One, in the world of economics... is my value of service to the public worth only 5000 dollar? surely... in view of my effort, ability, as well as the significant impact i will have on singaporeans based on my decision.. i dont see the appreciation... in that measly sum... secondly... i would have thrown out 495,000 dollar out the window every month if i go into the public sector where all the voters are only interested in getting the best out of me... insisting that i perform.... thinking that its my life to live in suffrage for singaporeans... 
, worst... some singaporeans would wonder if i am from mental hospital... to throw aways 495,000 dollar per month.. just to sit in public office... stupid right?? lastly... when the economy falters... you think the voters would be bothered if i am are paid 5 dollar or 5 million dollars?? of course not... they will still wanna burn me at the stake...!! just look at other nations and you get lots of examples....
At the risks of threading on those big toes, it is unfortunate that the only difference between Singapore and the other "supposedly" corrupt countries, is that everything is done by giving it a face of legitimacy through legislation; no matter how unreasonable the law maybe. and we are blind sheeps that we cannot see... you got eyes.. yet i dont know wat are you looking at... i think we have diverted far enough from the original topic... me think you should stop growing branches and stick to original argument... -
Not so amazing if you do not take a dig at every post by tearing into other's work, but try posting your own COMPLETE alternate piece, and prove your own point of views, unless you have none to offer without someone initiating your grey matters to work.Originally posted by tripwire:I find it amazing that anyone can walk away by posting "one liners" as a response to dig (without cause) into issues seriously posted, and serves only to befuddle a clearly thought out case. i find it similarly so amazing that anyone could read with their eyes close and insist that we dig into their reponse seriously when it makes no sense....
I think you are befuddling the issues here, with your kind of smart talk without any sense of clear thinking.
Do you think that the local mama shop is selling 20% more then the NTUC stores and challenging NTUC for supremacy and market dominance ? see what i mean?? since when did i say that local mama shop is selling 20% more then NTUC store?? you never open your eyes when you read.... [/quote]
See what i mean... the issues can get fuzzy, when you post "one liner" types of post that does not tell anyone where your intent lie ?
From your original post of 15 March 2003 07:36.am. isit just NTUC or even your local mama shop also sell the sweet 20% more? "
...mama shop also sell the sweet(s) 20% more....than who ?
Complete your point of views, don't leave it hanging.
You read so fast, and prefer to look for the hidden ghosts of a hidden message, that you missed the question that was asked in the earlier question to you:-
Is the mama shop forming a larger chain of SINGLE ownership stores across the Singapore Island, or just a small ambition in serving the IMMEDIATE neighborhood blocks ? and you points is??
Did the "mama store" make any declared "corporate policy" of serving the needs of the Public with LOWER PRICED Consumer Products so as to help in LOWERING the COST of LIVING ? wat does the last 2 points gotta to do with mama store competitive edge discussion over NTUC?? the right to charge higher price?? Do you think that the local mama shop is selling 20% more then the NTUC stores and challenging NTUC for supremacy and market dominance ?
Should I develop this further for your clearer understanding ?
Following your INCREDIBLE manner of reasoning and extension of any argument, we might as well indicate that all the hypermarkets beyond the shores of Singapore should be a threat to the local mama shop as well. ours... is an open economy.... i find your position very very very contradictory... on the one hand, you lament that NTUC is driving local mama shops into closing shop with its lower price... while hypermarts in Johor, which charge lower price then NTUC could not be a threat to local mama shop??
Firstly, do you not agree that the "mom and pop" shops have been closed by NTUC SuperMart aggressive strategies of muscling out the mom and pop shops - with whatever kind of NTUC pricing strategies ?
Secondly, do you not agree that with the "mom and pop" operated provision shops closed, the NTUC SuperMarts are now in a domineering position to sell products at their own high margin pricing policies ?
[quote]
The IMMEDIATE threat to the local original mom and pop provision shop, and your mama shop, is from NTUC and its pervasive strategy to swamp even the TRADITIONAL neighborhood provision shops with its even SMALLER Econ-Minimart and Fairprice Outlets, and now Cheers. you sure you singaporean?? Cheers product is more expensive and its operated in a franchais manner... Econ-Minimart is part of the PSC chain... not NTUC chain... PSC chain ? Public Service Commission or PSA or Prime Service Corporation or what ?
When the local "mom and pop" runned provision stores complained of the UNFAIR competiton that NTUC SuperMarkets posed to their small operation, most of these "mom and pop" shops were encouraged to come on board the NTUC bandwagon, to establish smaller neighborhood NTUC FairPrice MINI-Markets. However, for these "Privately Owned" stores to enjoy the strength of the NTUC bulk purchases, they have to sign on as "members" of a co-operative. The membership fee do not come at a low price, and these stores have to make minimum purchases for these mini-marts to maintain their membership.
The high membership fees that NTUC charges for the "mom and pop" provision stores to come on board their band wagon, does not help these smaller stores in anyway. NTUC does not offer mama shops to join their band wagon... why should it?? when it already have franchais Cheers and supermarts in most of the major towns??
If you noticed, many of these neighborhood NTUC FairPrice MINI-Markets are no longer in existence.
Who is acting smart now ?
You seem to be purposefully arguing for the sake of an argument, without understanding the thrust of the post that the writer has made, and befuddle the issues of the original post, as the argument develop over the next few days. dont act smart lah... you are the one who is reading with eyes closed... no wonder everything looks fuzzy to you
Tearing up someone else's point of views, and pasting your critique with nonsensical "one liner" remarks that does not lead anyone to know your own ALTERNATIVE point of views nor bring the debate to any specific directions. Worst still is when you have NO ALTERNATIVE Point of Views to offer.
Empty vessels certainly make the most noise.
Did I make that implication in the first place, or were you the one that twisted the arguments put forth originally by 'kenhor' ?
The original point that "kenhor" posted was a reply to your post, and that was despite NTUC employing lower salaried Malaysian Workers, prices of NTUC Products are 40% higher - than those found in similar sized Supermarkets and Hypermarkets across the border in JB. you imply that NTUC only have malaysian workers?? you imply that malaysian workers who work in singapore will happily take the same pay as when they are in malaysia?? you imply that there are no administrative and taxations for exmploying foreigners.. you implying that..other then workers.. NTUC also pay malaysian rent, bills and other cost while in singapore?? you are really really thick......
The point is not whether the Malaysian workers working in Singapore are prepared to take the same pay as when they were employed in Malaysia. The point is that Malaysians are paid generally lower then Singaporeans for the same job.
Have I touched on the rents, utilities and other costs in Singapore ?
Now that you have brought it up, who do you think caused such costs to have artificially gone up ? What do you think is the agenda behind this increases in costs ?
Let us not get personal by calling who is thick, the opinion is felt mutually - for your info; and I am not the first one having this feeling said now of you, others have mentioned it too in other postings.
Certainly, one does not eat bread alone, and following your style of reasoning - likewise the simple political reasons of what you see on the surface is not so simple as what you are conditioned - by the SGP Political Leaders - to see and think.
Do you think that the prices of NTUC will be any cheaper if Singaporeans are employed ? man does not eat bread alone... likewise... labor is not the only cost factor of NTUC...surely you must realise such simplistic economic reasoning....
Did I grow branches when replying to YOUR subject about the "char kway teow to pay our MINISTERS" ?
Concerning the Ministers' Pay from "a few plates of char kway teow", do you think that the Ministers' Pay is justified when the economic performance of this country has always been said to be ENTIRELY dependent on EXTERNAL World Events, which are BEYOND the control or influence of our Ministers ? now we are into the minister's pay.... you really really can grow branches... i chop liow... you grow somemore... while singapore's econmic performance is indeed heavily dependent (NOT ENTIRELY LAH) on external events... we are not completely without choices, options and remedies... the pay of the ministers are pegged to 2/3 of private sector... their pay is a reflection of their value in the private sector.. and is based on their opportunity cost in joining the govt sector.. undoubtedly... how the private sector pays their head boss is questionable... but then i hope to see future transparancies in this area...
This is what I mean when you put up "one liners" to drag out debates over several days, and the original thread just get whittled away.
For your reference - the post you made in your reply to kenhor on 15 March 2003 07:36am if NTUC hires only locals... would you still go to shop at NTUC if they have to now charge your sweet at 40% higher then in malaysia to offset the cost of hiring local??
Patriotism is a few plates of char koay teow to pay our ministers more (for them to be incorruptible, but doesn't mean we get better minister) but if you are asked to pay for 50 plates of char koay teow per month MORE by spending in Singapore, that is too much
What do you think are the perks that our semi-retired SM is now getting, even while he is NOW being paid the upgraded Ministerial Pay ? Would you dare to venture to make a guess ?
Do you think that our Ministers should be paid more then George Bush, when the Singapore Economy is dependent more on what the US$150,000 salaried George Bush does, then what our Million Dollar Salaried Ministers can do for Singapore's Economy ? george bush official pay is US$150,000 dollar.. but do you know the other perks of being the US president?? and all the benefits after he steps down as president?? it aint cheap you know??
Why don't you be clear about those perks that the US$150,000 President get when they leave the Public Office ?
Where do you think the Ministers' Pay is coming from ? The people's pocket or from someone elses' pocket ? Do we have no right to say how much of our money should be used to pay them ?
Do you think that the Ministers' Pay should be 100 to 1000 times more then the average Singaporean Wages, and relevant to the Cost of and the Standard of Living in Singapore ? since govt pay is linked to private sector.....do you think your boss should be paid 500 times to 5000 times more then the average singaporean wages??
Where do you think the salary of the C.E.O of a Public Listed Company is coming from ? Who do you think approves of his remuneration package ? The C.E.O. himself, the Board of Directors, or the Share Holders ?
Where do you think your boss money is coming from ? From your pocket, or from his own pocket ? Do you have any right to determine what he does with his money ?
What happened to the perks of office of the US Presidency ?
The original reason behind this policy and that was subsequently NEVER pushed further to the surface was that Ministers "create the environment" for all businesses to make profit (?). Therefore, the Ministers Pay should be equal to the highest paid C.E.O's and worked out from an AVERAGE of all the HIGHEST salary paid to CEOs.
This argument is controversial and amazing in itself.
The original values of "Pride in Personal Sacrifice" and "Honor of Office" is no longer privilege enough in holding Public Office. comeon lah.... pride and honor cannot totally replace the potential cost... if i am being paid 500,000 dollars a month in private sector... even if i have pride and honor in holding public office for a 5000 dollar salary... i wonder over 3 critical points... One, in the world of economics... is my value of service to the public worth only 5000 dollar? surely... in view of my effort, ability, as well as the significant impact i will have on singaporeans based on my decision.. i dont see the appreciation... in that measly sum... secondly... i would have thrown out 495,000 dollar out the window every month if i go into the public sector where all the voters are only interested in getting the best out of me... insisting that i perform.... thinking that its my life to live in suffrage for singaporeans... , worst... some singaporeans would wonder if i am from mental hospital... to throw aways 495,000 dollar per month.. just to sit in public office... stupid right?? lastly... when the economy falters... you think the voters would be bothered if i am are paid 5 dollar or 5 million dollars?? of course not... they will still wanna burn me at the stake...!! just look at other nations and you get lots of examples....
Now in Singapore, we get both the "MILLION Dollar" perk, plus the perks enjoyed after leaving public office too ?
The lecture circuits, the assignments to High Paying Employment in GLC's, interviews, contracts with ThinkTanks, Board of Directors in Overseas Companies, Consultancies, continued Government Housing, Body Guards, Security, Tax Holidays(?), and others that we are not privy to.
When the Ministers were NOT paid the Million Dollar Package, what do you think was the worth of the non-monetary perks that they received ? The essentials would have covered - housing, Car, security services, tax exemptions, travel, and other miscellaneous benefits of office, as well as being Members of Parliament. Do you think these perks are withdrawn, now that they are paid their Million Dollar package ?
In answer to your other questions or points of view.
Well, if as a Minister you claimed to also be "God" or "SuperMan" and omnipotently more knowledgeable than ORDINARY Singaporeans, who are supposedly LESS Talented than Yourself as a Minister, then you better live up to what you claim to be.
But after having been paid the "MILLION Dollar" Package, and anything that you do, is dependent on what is done by a US$150,000 man sitting as a US President, then one will be asking if the MILLION Dollar should have been paid out in the first place !
Well you said it in your first statement that "we are blind sheeps that we cannot see....." and this begs the question: how can you then know what my eyes are looking at, since you are a blind sheep ?
At the risks of threading on those big toes, it is unfortunate that the only difference between Singapore and the other "supposedly" corrupt countries, is that everything is done by giving it a face of legitimacy through legislation; no matter how unreasonable the law maybe. and we are blind sheeps that we cannot see... you got eyes.. yet i dont know wat are you looking at... i think we have diverted far enough from the original topic... me think you should stop growing branches and stick to original argument...
I wonder now, if you are NOT a blind sheep, HOW did you stray so far from the Tree, and not observe that the branches have always been there, except that some people prefer to nit pick on small leaves taken from the branch, without even offering any additonal input to help the branch grow.
This kind of pointless nit picking with aimless "one line" statements that post a critique without any further development, only prevent the tree from growing in a proper direction. -
To "tripwire"
From my post of 15 March 2003 - 10:21amBTW if the CEO of a small little COMFORT is paid a Million Dollar salary, how much do you think the CEO of NTUC FairPrice is paid with your shopping contributions of high priced NTUC products that originate from Malaysia ?
Why did you conveniently left out this paragraph from your response to the body of my post to you ?
Nothing to add ?
Not even a "one liner" ? -
read my sentence i posted ..... in my last reply....Originally posted by Atobe:To "tripwire"
From my post of 15 March 2003 - 10:21am
Why did you conveniently left out this paragraph from your response to the body of my post to you ?
Nothing to add ?
Not even a "one liner" ? undoubtedly... how the private sector pays their head boss is questionable... but then i hope to see future transparancies in this area... -
Originally posted by tripwire:
In this reply, I guess you have not had the time to review my response to your "long post", which I have addressed each point brought up by you.
read my sentence i posted ..... in my last reply....
[b] undoubtedly... how the private sector pays their head boss is questionable... but then i hope to see future transparancies in this area... [/b]
When you refer to the "Private Sector" - would you differentiate between Public Companies in the Private Sector (where capital is from Shareholders funds and Public Investments), or are you referring to "private registered" companies set up with Public Funds (such as from GIC and GLC), or Private Companies (whose funds are from the Private Capital of Entrepreneurs) ?
Without this being clear, I doubt very much if you will have any right to demand transparencies as to how the Boss of a Private Company is being paid. -
hiaz never ready bother to read all the previous posts but aint it simple?
wherever cheaper buy from there. but of course u got to take into a/c of petrol car toll parking,time etc to make a comparision. very simple maths n economics.
Mmmmm,no patriotism involved when it comes to money yeah ?