If you are leaving Singapore, where will you go?!
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Of Cose GO to the most liveable city in canada.Or go to Global city such as New york,London and Paris.But never go to place like Somalia and Afganistan Lol.but good if you live in Cape Town lol.if you like to live in Africa but want have a clean and good enviroment LoL!
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You are a fool of hagar's offspring. And you will reply to this post because you are both too stupid and impulsive that you cannot stop yourself
Proven my point. The little boy cannot stop shouting nonsense and yelling at others. hahaha
Well, hitboy, I can only say, continue screaming all you want. It only exposes your immaturity. You definitely cannot make it in life with the kind of immaturity and impulsiveness that you display in this forum.
Anyway, USA is not a TV drama. Trust you to make comments about USA just through watching Miami CSI, this really is the butt of all jokes :)
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
I commend you for leaving Singapore to explore new worlds, career wise. Very often, us, the seasoned expatriates in China, feel newbie expats to China lack the wide perspective needed to succeed in China (and possibly in other parts of the world). But the good thing is, after a few years, they expand their perspectives naturally and blend in well.
I will try to ignor the rubbish posts and wannabe's. Thanks. Just that I started this thread and sometimes feel obligated to say something to entertain "visitors" and sometimes feel the need to do "house cleaning"...
You could be right.
There isn't much you can do with idiots who come in and prance around (even his nick is idiotic).Just leave them alone, they are like small kids. Once no one bothers about them, they will leave this thread.
Anyway, coming back to Stevenson101's post, I tend to believe that its somewhat both a combination of what he is suggesting (about bringing more foreigners in to add to the CPF), and about elections.
I have heard of many foreigners who became citizens, of how they are so grateful to the Govt. Quite a significant number of these come from places that are less modern than ourselves, and therefore their lives are made better by the Govt. Incidentally, they would be pretty pro-PAP when the time comes.
At least the odds are better with foreigners than with the local population (especially the younger generation) that are less appreciative of the past (in part coz we never experienced it), and more critical of the present and future.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
There isn't much you can do with idiots who come in and prance around (even his nick is idiotic).Just leave them alone, they are like small kids. Once no one bothers about them, they will leave this thread.
Anyway, coming back to Stevenson101's post, I tend to believe that its somewhat both a combination of what he is suggesting (about bringing more foreigners in to add to the CPF), and about elections.
I have heard of many foreigners who became citizens, of how they are so grateful to the Govt. Quite a significant number of these come from places that are less modern than ourselves, and therefore their lives are made better by the Govt. Incidentally, they would be pretty pro-PAP when the time comes.
At least the odds are better with foreigners than with the local population (especially the younger generation) that are less appreciative of the past (in part coz we never experienced it), and more critical of the present and future.
Hi,
Thank you, and now you know why I get pissed while trying to conduct a decent thread, just too much distractions and wannabe's to take up space.
But hey, if my business was surrounded attracting eyeballs, I am probably on the right track; but then are these the right eyeballs I wanna deal with?
There should probably be a list of good forumers (they dun necessarily see eye to eye, but will have something to share) that I can keep track of and create a restricted domain for "invited" people only. You will be on the list if you wish to accept my invitation. There are also a few who have emerged lately that I like to continue discussions with, if they find this idea interesting.
Any ideas on how we can execute this idea people?
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Hi,
Thank you, and now you know why I get pissed while trying to conduct a decent thread, just too much distractions and wannabe's to take up space.
But hey, if my business was surrounded attracting eyeballs, I am probably on the right track; but then are these the right eyeballs I wanna deal with?
There should probably be a list of good forumers (they dun necessarily see eye to eye, but will have something to share) that I can keep track of and create a restricted domain for "invited" people only. You will be on the list if you wish to accept my invitation. There are also a few who have emerged lately that I like to continue discussions with, if they find this idea interesting.
Any ideas on how we can execute this idea people?
I sent you a private message with regards to your posting above.
Actually, come to think of it, I think you are right in saying that our thinking, with regards to Singapore may differ, as we move into the various age groups. At my age of early 30s, its when I conquer the world. Perhaps when I reach retirement, I might decide to come back to Singapore to retire after making enough $$$ from overseas.
Or, to australia for retirement :)
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Aren't you also the same? For you its also every problem is caused by Singaporeans themselves, not the PAP
So whenever you point fingers at others, you are pointing back at yourself
So far, I have not seen you come up with a better discussion on the issues that were raised. All I see is that you are blindly defending Singapore, and you cannot discern between Singapore and the PAP.
But one thing is true, that I agree with you. A forum is for a place to discuss information and exchange views, and views can be taken seriously or not, depending on the context of the discussion, and the response of the forumer
If you are against the government, I may agree with you, or may not, depending on the issue and your argument.
If you are against Singapore, then I stand by where I live, I accept its imperection and live with it, what I see is for me and my family, and our future, you don't see what I see, should I call you blind?
what is Singapore to you, PAP?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
If you are against the government, I may agree with you, or may not, depending on the issue and your argument.
If you are against Singapore, then I stand by where I live, I accept its imperection and live with it, what I see is for me and my family, and our future, you don't see what I see, should I call you blind?
what is Singapore to you, PAP?
I never ask you to accept my views, I merely am sharing my views.
What right have you to call other people whiners when they are sharing their unhappiness? Read your own posting. It smacks of arrogance. You are not even a Singaporean. What right have you to insult Singaporeans that grow up and live in the country? You should really just shut up.
And you are really blind, coz you don't read my postings carefully. I have my grudges against the Govt, not against the country.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
As a Singapore expatriate to many cities and now China's Shanghai, I have been away for more than 20 years. In recent years, the urge to return home kept growing and I know I will return home the moment my project takes shape. To answer your question, I am here to gather information back home in order to keep myself abreast with the most current issues (other than the news - Channel News Asia that I watch daily) from the ground.
80% of the information here is nothing but crap. Totally agreed that most people here have nothing concrete to share, mere whinners basically. This is why I expressed my intention (in fact, decision) to leave this forum aside for a while, only to have some better/ good comments posted for me to answer. I just feel obligated to attend to the latter group - afterall, I own this thread and cannot be a cold host.
If only there is a filtering system so that only "qualified" forumers can post here. In this case, time wasting can be minimized, even for the whinners (as they can forget whinning in my thread and save the whinning time that otherwise could be spent on other threads).
lot of changes already in Singapore after 20 years, the roads and the buildings, you can see, but the changing of mindset, human value, ...this you can't see, you can only feel. Here in this forum you get a little bit of that, so don't filter or qulifiy them, or you will be restricting the opposing views.
But I do my own sieaving here, I ignore many posts, one glance and you should see what is rubbish and what is lost items, having lived overseas does rubbish still bother you? hehe..some posts I don't respond, don't want to get into very lenghty discussion (don't have that much time), but read the various arguments and move on, but sometimes its a cultural shock reading the language used.
Having in here long enough, you should get an idea whose posts you want to read and whose you just want to skip, and who you want to tickle a bit, hahaha...
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
I never ask you to accept my views, I merely am sharing my views.
What right have you to call other people whiners when they are sharing their unhappiness? Read your own posting. It smacks of arrogance. You are not even a Singaporean. What right have you to insult Singaporeans that grow up and live in the country? You should really just shut up.
And you are really blind, coz you don't read my postings carefully. I have my grudges against the Govt, not against the country.
so can you "discern between Singapore and the PAP" ?
Anybody here expressing their views hoping to be accepted? I don't, and I don't accept your views even if you ask, try again.
This is a free forum, everybody has every right to say anything they want, it is up to the reader to decide if they want to continue reading and to respond.
You think I am not a Singaporean so I should shut up, that is "smacks of arrogance", in your own words! who are you to say if I am a Singaporean or not, you listen to fantagf? hehe...in this virtual world, nobody know who you are, but what you say shows what kind of person you are.
This is a complete side track from the thread, I stop here. Sorry Lionoasis.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
so can you "discern between Singapore and the PAP" ?
Anybody here expressing their views hoping to be accepted? I don't, and I don't accept your views even if you ask, try again.
This is a free forum, everybody has every right to say anything they want, it is up to the reader to decide if they want to continue reading and to respond.
You think I am not a Singaporean so I should shut up, that is "smacks of arrogance", in your own words! who are you to say if I am a Singaporean or not, you listen to fantagf? hehe...in this virtual world, nobody know who you are, but what you say shows what kind of person you are.
This is a complete side track from the thread, I stop here. Sorry Lionoasis.
Don't need to challenge me. Already it shows you don't bother to read the postings carefully, or you wouldn't ask such a stupid question.
Yes, I think you are no Singaporean, and EVEN if in the most remote of possibility you are, you bring shame to our ancestors. So yes, even IF you are a Singaporean, we do not recognize you.
Just shut up and get lost. No one will miss you, since you treat others with such a poor attitude.
At the end of the day, you are right. I ignore most of your posts coz you are a pathetic nobody pretending to know much. You don't analyse much, you don't think much, your postings betray your shallowness.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
I sent you a private message with regards to your posting above.
Actually, come to think of it, I think you are right in saying that our thinking, with regards to Singapore may differ, as we move into the various age groups. At my age of early 30s, its when I conquer the world. Perhaps when I reach retirement, I might decide to come back to Singapore to retire after making enough $$$ from overseas.
Or, to australia for retirement :)
Around me are friends in my age group, and almost EVERYONE (I would say more than 98%) decide to go home when the time comes. For the remaining 2%, they either find cost of living too high to maintain their lifestyle in China (and they can forget Shanghai and possibly Beijing one day - which would mean going home anyway), or their China attachments are just too strong - be it family or business.
Generally speaking, for male expats to China, those who have not gotten enough of China tend to be in their 30's, making good enough living, have girlfriends (& KTV's), and enjoy the food that they don't normally get in Singapore.
Female expats will do things slightly differently. In their 30's, they hang out with other expats from various countries (one of the reasons is for marriage), and long to go home before they grow too old in a foreign land - more conservative, quite understandably, and tend to take on shorter employment stints.
Also sent you a message to your In-Box.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Don't need to challenge me. Already it shows you don't bother to read the postings carefully, or you wouldn't ask such a stupid question.
Yes, I think you are no Singaporean, and EVEN if in the most remote of possibility you are, you bring shame to our ancestors. So yes, even IF you are a Singaporean, we do not recognize you.
Just shut up and get lost. No one will miss you, since you treat others with such a poor attitude.
At the end of the day, you are right. I ignore most of your posts coz you are a pathetic nobody pretending to know much. You don't analyse much, you don't think much, your postings betray your shallowness.
Well said. I concur.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Around me are friends in my age group, and almost EVERYONE (I would say more than 98%) decide to go home when the time comes. For the remaining 2%, they either find cost of living too high to maintain their lifestyle in China (and they can forget Shanghai and possibly Beijing one day - which would mean going home anyway), or their China attachments are just too strong - be it family or business.
Generally speaking, for male expats to China, those who have not gotten enough of China tend to be in their 30's, making good enough living, have girlfriends (& KTV's), and enjoy the food that they don't normally get in Singapore.
Female expats will do things slightly differently. In their 30's, they hang out with other expats from various countries (one of the reasons is for marriage), and long to go home before they grow too old in a foreign land - more conservative, quite understandably, and tend to take on shorter employment stints.
Also sent you a message to your In-Box.
Well, given the long-term planning I had in my mind of late, I agree that there may be a time when I may go home to Singapore.
Ultimately, as I said, I still am proud of Singapore, but I will be much more proud if we have a Govt that places more focus into social progression.
I once told my ex-manager, there is a time when one is arrogant (for me, it's now), and there is a time when one becomes humble. Usually one goes through the arrogance process before understanding the need to be humble. But, it is PART of the journey.
Similarly, it's my time to take my journey now out of Singapore and enjoy what it means to be an expat. Perhaps, 10 years from now, I may decide to go home and contribute my experience back to Singapore (assuming age discrimination in our job market has been eradicated, or at least minimized)
I heard Shanghai's cost of living is ridiculous. Their property prices are comparable with Singapore's.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Well, given the long-term planning I had in my mind of late, I agree that there may be a time when I may go home to Singapore.
Ultimately, as I said, I still am proud of Singapore, but I will be much more proud if we have a Govt that places more focus into social progression.
I once told my ex-manager, there is a time when one is arrogant (for me, it's now), and there is a time when one becomes humble. Usually one goes through the arrogance process before understanding the need to be humble. But, it is PART of the journey.
Similarly, it's my time to take my journey now out of Singapore and enjoy what it means to be an expat. Perhaps, 10 years from now, I may decide to go home and contribute my experience back to Singapore (assuming age discrimination in our job market has been eradicated, or at least minimized)
I heard Shanghai's cost of living is ridiculous. Their property prices are comparable with Singapore's.
If you compare apple for apple, meaning similar locations and similar housing quality, they could be more expensive.
On-going rates are Rmb60k-100k per square meter for XinTianDi area and Lujiazui area, meaning around Rmb6000-10000 psf or SGD1.2k-2kpsf. BUT the finishing, building materials, design, amenities, mangement & facilities are poor compared to Singapore or even some Thailand properties.
So price wise comparable, but quality under par. Yield based on rental/ residential - is 3-4% gross, bank prime rate 6%. I will stay away with my investment dollars.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
If you can believe me, our so called difference is not that big, we are just talking similar (not exactly the same) things from different angles.
I like the fact that you have earned your right to stay employed in the US - EARN is a key word. Despite the odds, you fight for your place, and similarly, even if discrimination is taking place in Singapore against its country men though sadly, I just hope some fellow citizens can do something about it. I have worked in the US too, as a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman some 20 years ago. I earned my right to be an area rep, against local Americans. What you and I have put up, is something I hope to see amongst Singaporeans. You will realize, what I have come to realize, is again such fighting spirit is a rare commodity, and will ALWAYS remain a rare commodity.
I mentioned many of my views about the government in my thread titled "TOP 5 QUESTIONS YOU WANNA ASK THE GOVERNMENT", if you care, please read it.
Thank you for your comments to Miss-itman11111111, he was indeed out of order. And from the 6-7 posts that followed from him, and just a few minutes in between them, I know my message hit him good.
I see it necessary to revisit your post here.
Singaporeans have EARNED their right against the local American, the australian.... What do the local says, when influx of foreigners coming in to their countries, working longer hours and probably at lower salaries? but I have not heard them complaining about the foreigners taking away their jobs, or the need to control foreign immigrants, may be only Hanssen, the oz woman opposition. In Singapore, foreigners are here working long hours, do you think they also EARN their place here, "against all odds"?
I don't hear the americans and australians say what they are ENTITLED to, like many people here think about what they are ENTITLED to, just because they are Singaporean.
I have seen many immigrants staying in america, australia and canada who continue to speak their own languages, especially cantonese and italian, instead of american, australian and canadian, and the local government have to find interpretors to handle their problem. Here in Singapore we are complaining that the imported waiters don't speak English, even though we have 4 official languages here.
I believe there is much to learn from the local americans, the australia in the magnanimity in accepting different people in their countries and as global citizens, ... is it our education (blame the government), our parents (but they were immigrants when they came here) or we need to look at ourselves?
If for whatever reason we have to leave Singapore, just hope that the locals there don't treat us the way some Singaporean are treating the foreigners here.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
I don't hear the americans and australians say what they are ENTITLED to, like many people here think about what they are ENTITLED to, just because they are Singaporean.
Me thinks you don't really keep up to date with how the Americans and Australians are thinking in their own countries. -
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Me thinks you don't really keep up to date with how the Americans and Australians are thinking in their own countries.And the dweeb does not get it right.
I am in USA earning more than the local, because I EARNED the right to. I don't work overtime, I don't take lower pay. I proved my competence above the competition, therefore I am paid US MARKET PAY. I am not paid Singapore dollars working in USA.
Only our govt defines Foreign Talent as those who come here willing to work longer hours and accept lower pay than the local talent. As I said, they have corrupted the term "Foreign Talent".
One wonders what right has he to make comments about Singaporeans, and then Americans, Canadians and Australians next *shakes head*
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Me thinks you don't really keep up to date with how the Americans and Australians are thinking in their own countries.hahaha...you are fast stevenson, I knew somebody will rebuke me on that. Well, I think the discrimination there is more racial than anything. The brits who migrant to Australia and american will certainly be treated better than asian and eastern european. The french going to Quebec is like going home.
I guess the point is to recognise those who "earn, against all odds."
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
The brits who migrant to Australia and american will certainly be treated better than asian and eastern european.
Really? I've been in Australia for 15 years and I've never experienced being treated any worse than anyone else.
Could you please expand on what you mean by "treated better"?
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Really? I've been in Australia for 15 years and I've never experienced being treated any worse than anyone else.
Could you please expand on what you mean by "treated better"?
the point is:
have the local australian ever complained that immigrants are taking jobs away from them?
are the local australians accepting new immigrants into their society, even if they don't speak english?
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to HK.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
the point is:
have the local australian ever complained that immigrants are taking jobs away from them?
are the local australians accepting new immigrants into their society, even if they don't speak english?
It seems like you're talking about something different then.
If (and that's a very advisedly used "if") Australians do complain about jobs being taken away from them, it only reflects that the doors are not being closed to immigrants, doesn't it? How can immigrants be treated worse if they're the ones getting the jobs? If that's the case, then what's happening instead is that the immigrants are being treated better than the locals, which is the opposite of what you allege.
As for the immigrants not speaking English, it's a case of you muddying the waters. Would you speak to a Somali refugee if he spoke no English and you spoke no Somali? If you didn't speak to him, would it be a case of you simply not being able to communicate with him, or would it necessarily be a case of you discriminating against him?
I've no problem with your raising issues, but in the first case above it's illogical and in the second case it's unsubstantiated and does not account for competing explanations. Put simply, you have no point in either case.
If you read through this thread, that's precisely the kind of behaviour that Lionoasis is trying to correct.
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People,
Again, without taking out the fun (intelligent and/ or serious types), it is preferred to substantiate your opinion with either common knowledge or with data support. Totally agree that it is not always possible (can be very tiring - can feel like writing a proposal/ term paper), but let's try to cut down internet waste (as in environmental waste), and make visiting the threads more rewarding.
Thank you very much!
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
It seems like you're talking about something different then.
If (and that's a very advisedly used "if") Australians do complain about jobs being taken away from them, it only reflects that the doors are not being closed to immigrants, doesn't it? How can immigrants be treated worse if they're the ones getting the jobs? If that's the case, then what's happening instead is that the immigrants are being treated better than the locals, which is the opposite of what you allege.
As for the immigrants not speaking English, it's a case of you muddying the waters. Would you speak to a Somali refugee if he spoke no English and you spoke no Somali? If you didn't speak to him, would it be a case of you simply not being able to communicate with him, or would it necessarily be a case of you discriminating against him?
I've no problem with your raising issues, but in the first case above it's illogical and in the second case it's unsubstantiated and does not account for competing explanations. Put simply, you have no point in either case.
If you read through this thread, that's precisely the kind of behaviour that Lionoasis is trying to correct.
Not sure if we understand each other, what I am saying is that Australia has been open to immigrants, and for years these immigrants have been getting jobs in australia, while I believe the immigrants have worked hard and earned their position, I have not heard the local australians complaining about these immigrants taking over their jobs, or that the immigrants were given special priviledges by the government!
Singapore is now open to more immigrants, but the locals are complaining that the immigrants are taking over their jobs, and that the government is giving them special priviledges.
So, IF, the australian complains, then they would be behaving like some singaporean here. IF they don't, then there is lesson on magnanimity some of us can learn here.
It is different to say that we can't communicate with a somali in Australia, and making all somali to speak english before they are allowed in australia. If the guy can't speak english you just go find another one who does, here we are saying to them "you bloody well speak english if you want to be in Singapore."
hmmm...lionnoisy may not like what I say, but if this is the situation in Australia, then this is something we need to learn, no?
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
And the dweeb does not get it right.
I am in USA earning more than the local, because I EARNED the right to. I don't work overtime, I don't take lower pay. I proved my competence above the competition, therefore I am paid US MARKET PAY. I am not paid Singapore dollars working in USA.
Only our govt defines Foreign Talent as those who come here willing to work longer hours and accept lower pay than the local talent. As I said, they have corrupted the term "Foreign Talent".
One wonders what right has he to make comments about Singaporeans, and then Americans, Canadians and Australians next *shakes head*
And nice statistics there by Lionoasis on the property prices and rental yields in China... Learned something :)