If you are leaving Singapore, where will you go?!
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
I wonder is it because of our lack of sense of belonging to our country, that results in us being more individualistic than Japanese or Koreans or PRCs?
These countries have a strong sense of patriotism to their homelands. We on the other hand, don't seem to have that.
soul rag,
patriotism is how kind u treat yer country man and yer motherland.i see neither in you.....u behave like a dog eat dog no kinda country man. yer main motto is to sucker up to the richest guy and nail the rest down....like dat who want to go near u!!!!???.....u remind me of the PAP principle in many ways!
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chelsea,
yes.....and shut the door behind u as well!
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to soul rag,
wat do ya know bout the japs and koreans??u never even talked to them!!!hey....kid.....u need to go mix with these people more instead of watching jap porn!!
what bout the americans??arent they patriotic as well???
as if soul rag knows the meaning of patriotism!!if soul rag knows patriotism then i would claim to be the reincarnation of stamford raffles.....he would have signed on with civil service from young ifr he knew patriotism!!probably soul rag has as much patriotism as those guys selling char kuay teow in hawker centres!
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Dear friends Gedanken and Lionoasis
Really, you guys should agree to disagree, and then move on. :)
It's after all only a forum, no personal attacks are necessary. We are all people who have seen and experienced much (unlike a creature that has been raving like a mad dog in this thread), there is no necessity to get into a heated argument such as this one.
I urge both to just cool down, and take a step back, and let's just go back to the discussion.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
I am sure that play a part especially most chinese singaporean were onces immigrant. But also I am sure you agreed that you would want to expose the differences....in host countries. That is one characteristics that is not commonly found in more tradditional ethinicity group.
My perspective is, we have at most 3 generations living in Singapore to this day since independence. Perhaps its not long enough to build a sense of belonging yet.At the same time, our immigrant policies are too liberal, thus continuously adding strain to the local communities that has not fully established the roots yet.
LKY also removed dialect, which kinda aided in keeping dialect groups closely knitted together. His intention was good (to try to knit everyone in Singapore together thru English and the common 2nd language), but the results are probably not what he had envisioned.
To me, Singaporeans (for those who have grasped the opportunity to move overseas) are in a strong position to adapt, because we are not too comfortable with our country as yet (no deep roots entrenched)
Of course, the education system then works the opposite direction. It encourages Singaporeans to follow a rigid system, and therefore we may not be as flexible.
Still, I continue to stand by my opinion that we Singaporeans have the ability to adapt to any situation, given the opportunity. With both good English and Mandarin, we are able to traverse both the East and the West.
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Originally posted by Chelsea 1 71:
Hello everyone!
I found this forum on the 1st of December this year and thought what a nifty place to be, to able to have a debate or a discussion about the place where I was born and grew up! Disappointedly, after a mere few days, I discovered that neither the place nor the people have ever changed for the better. Rather, the sniping amongst one another still exists. What's worse, here in this forum where all of us should be able to "debate" and tell each other stories of our living experiences in Singapore or overseas.
I'm not saying all of us are the same, but when will some of you ever grow up and treat each other in a civil way? I wonder!! Why aren't you lots happy at all and have no sense of patriotism towards your homeland I read Soul Rage enquire!!!!
Well just think of yourselves as two banks of the same canal, they run parallel with one another, and yet remain so very, very far apart.
Nothing has altered, nothing has changed. Nothing! It's still a question of abstract proletarian consciousness, of abstract proletarian consiousness, while the dialectical aspects of the matter............................
Forgive me because I'm unable to go any further! Goodbye and God bless one and all!
Dear mate,
you haven't been long enough in this forum to realize that there are many houseflies in the forums. But you should really focus on the positives.
There are those that bothered to think, analyze and write, like Atobe, Arapahoe, Lionoasis, Gedanken, Stevenson101, eagle, Genesis, just to name a few, etc
There are also those who would support Singapore staunchly, such as xtreyier and sgdiehard. Though I disagree with most of their opinions (given the fact, I have anti-PAP views, and thus we butt heads most of the time), at least they write with passion and their postings can be seen to have proper thoughts in them.
It's also what makes it fun to debate, when people have differences in opinions, and share them out with one another. Of course, try not to let it become too personal (though I acknowledge I myself can't control at times, calling xtreyier a dumbass and he calling me a madman).
If you stay a little longer, you will realize that there are those who think and write well. Singaporeans ain't as bad as you think. Of course, at the end of the day, it's your decision, and I respect that.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Dear friends Gedanken and Lionoasis
Really, you guys should agree to disagree, and then move on. :)
It's after all only a forum, no personal attacks are necessary. We are all people who have seen and experienced much (unlike a creature that has been raving like a mad dog in this thread), there is no necessity to get into a heated argument such as this one.
I urge both to just cool down, and take a step back, and let's just go back to the discussion.
Bro,
There was NO personal attack, as I had promised.
But enough is enough for certain things...
I am in the mood again...know what I mean?
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Funny you should mention that, soul_rage. I recall Lionoasis stating:
I wonder if he's missed the delicious irony of the present situation. he appeals for people to go and find out for themselves, and yet he tries to push his conclusion.
I'll chalk another point up for hypocrisy.
As for the consensus, are there not enough reasoned posts by members such as yourself, scrambledeggs and others to give one pause before barrelling along to a conclusion that there is no other place than Singapore? Surely the intelligent thing to do would be to take these into consideration, would it not?
And once again I have absolutely no argument with that. It's a balanced, reasonable and defensibleopinion to hold.
Well, I guess he found more houseflies than people who challenge his views. :)Frankly, it's good to see you disagreeing with his view, because though he and I are good friends, I also disagree with his view, but he is ok with it :)
Ultimately, he probably feels that the no. of houseflies outweigh those that think, that results in his personal conclusion.
And since this thread is started by him, I deem it his right to make his own personal conclusion here. Sure, he probably forgot to add certain assumptions, but we all made mistakes in our postings anyway (and learn as we go along).
Personally, if I ask him about myself, "do you think I cannot adapt?", he will probably answer no, he would feel that I adapt pretty well, given my stints in Europe and USA. But he will still stick to his conclusion that the majority of Singaporeans cannot adapt well. And that's his own opinion.
Of course, I can see that you feel he is pushing his opinion on others, and it may seem that he feels there is no need for others to try, since we are not adaptable anyway.
Still, as this is a debating forum, it should be left to each individual to agree or disagree with his views.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Bro,
There was NO personal attack, as I had promised.
But enough is enough for certain things...
I am in the mood again...know what I mean?
good good. So let's skip that disagreement.Anyway going on with other experiences. There are quite a no. of Singaporeans living around my area over here. The Singapore Embassy tries to encourage us to get together during National Day and Chinese New Year. Haven't been to one yet, but I intend to go next year and see how it turns out.
I heard that quite a no. of fellow countrymen will go to those events, and will make an effort to go and check it out and see how things turn out there.
Frankly, I do not make an extra effort to locate Singaporeans and try to forge bonds. My opinion is that I have the ability to forge bonds with everyone, regardless of race, language, or religion :p (Another strength from our education, to be comfortable with everyone regardless of differences, as was highlighted in our national pledge)
But if I do meet a Singaporean, and we start speaking, usually, it's quite a happy event coz we can always chat about something in common (NS, roti prata, PAP, etc).
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even animals can use tools but can they think????.
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and there we have it folks.........people outside spore behaving like the pap.as part of psychology warfare...one has to make a group of people feel they are the selected and chosen ones...accolades and medal pinning.and with that same idealogy given the pap or nazi system restarts itself once again.
history has told us so.....................so who is soul rag???why is he pinning on selected few which has a stark resemblence to pap???and was this what happened to pap in the first place??it all fits pretty well in here.
there are some people who are here to garner support for a worth;ess cause n ensure survival of their frends n such.
u can have da werld fer all i care!!1just to let u know u are being watched.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
good good. So let's skip that disagreement.Anyway going on with other experiences. There are quite a no. of Singaporeans living around my area over here. The Singapore Embassy tries to encourage us to get together during National Day and Chinese New Year. Haven't been to one yet, but I intend to go next year and see how it turns out.
I heard that quite a no. of fellow countrymen will go to those events, and will make an effort to go and check it out and see how things turn out there.
Frankly, I do not make an extra effort to locate Singaporeans and try to forge bonds. My opinion is that I have the ability to forge bonds with everyone, regardless of race, language, or religion :p
But if I do meet a Singaporean, and we start speaking, usually, it's quite a happy event coz we can always chat about something in common (NS, roti prata, PAP, etc).
In my early years in Shanghai (1993-94), whenever I heard Singlish, I would take a keen interest in that voice and the person behind that voice. These days, I keep quiet and dun bother to strike any conversations. There are around 20k Singaporeans in the greater Shanghai (if I remember correctly) region, and sometimes in certain places, it feels like a mini Singapore.
The situation in Shanghai is that most who have stayed here for more than 1-2 years dun attend such events, unless they are the committee members or SSBA (Shangai-Singapore Business Association) personnel.
Dun know the situation in US these days, but having lived there 5 years myself, the Singapore experience could be better given that you are in a PURE western environment, and anything Singapore is very refreshing. I am sure most people will feel liberated and that the invisible ceiling has been lifted, yeah? It was for me too. But towards my last 12 months there (my 5th year), I had a strong feeling that I didn't belong there, and felt very home sick.
Now that I have spent 16 years in China, I am feeling home sick once again. You have heard this before.
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soul rag,
go home to where ya from!!!dont come to australia.....i dont want australia to end up having PAP mentality as in spore.its infectious like maggots n flies on rotten meat.
soul rag.....get lost from australia,,,,go nurture yer own brand of PAP in some other galaxy.
SOUL RAG............please GET LOST from australia!
swats a fly...sees a tiny name tag called soul rag on it:)
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sees me riding into the sunset with my sporean cat in the front basket of my bicycle............no PAP........no lky......no lhl.........no army athelete remedial trainings.......rest in peace.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
In my early years in Shanghai (1993-94), whenever I heard Singlish, I would take a keen interest in that voice and the person behind that voice. These days, I keep quiet and dun bother to strike any conversations. There are around 20k Singaporeans in the greater Shanghai (if I remember correctly) region, and sometimes in certain places, it feels like a mini Singapore.
The situation in Shanghai is that most who have stayed here for more than 1-2 years dun attend such events, unless they are the committee members or SSBA (Shangai-Singapore Business Association) personnel.
Dun know the situation in US these days, but having lived there 5 years myself, the Singapore experience could be better given that you are in a PURE western environment, and anything Singapore is very refreshing. I am sure most people will feel liberated and that the invisible ceiling has been lifted, yeah? It was for me too. But towards my last 12 months there (my 5th year), I had a strong feeling that I didn't belong there, and felt very home sick.
Now that I have spent 16 years in China, I am feeling home sick once again. You have heard this before.
I guess home-sickness is something I have to be careful with. But well, i guess it's something all of us need to face when we are overseas.
But I tend to focus on the positives, like what I can get in USA, I cannot get in Singapore. Every decision has its pros and cons. I mostly focus on the pros. Not sure what happens 10 years later, but right now, I don't regret the decision to fulfill my wanderlust at all.
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I would most probably migrate to Taiwan or Korea, since there are still rural areas which would enable one to REALLY get away from city life and relax (not in Singapore, where people can actually get away from city life and experience real rural life)
Since Taiwan is a Chinese society, so I would fit nicely into it but I must not allow my command of English to fall, lol.
I'm attracted to the Korean culture, their language and food so if I can migrate to Korea it would be great yet it's hard to get PR status there.
But being home-sick would be a factor too as I had lived here for 21 yrs of my life and my family and friends are all here.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
I guess home-sickness is something I have to be careful with. But well, i guess it's something all of us need to face when we are overseas.
But I tend to focus on the positives, like what I can get in USA, I cannot get in Singapore. Every decision has its pros and cons. I mostly focus on the pros. Not sure what happens 10 years later, but right now, I don't regret the decision to fulfill my wanderlust at all.
Good that you can find what you want over there. Whether you choose to return home to Singapore, nothing should stop you from loving this country. But you alrady know that.Back in my days there, pre-internet and 3G phone (or 1 G for crying out loud), what I found appealing was the playboy channel, strip clubs, the opened culture, atmosphere that was in the air, access to many of the books and training courses (as most of these things originated from there) etc etc...
Have not returned to the west for almost 20 years now. Will travel there next year when my things are more settled. Will take up your offer...thanks.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
I would most probably migrate to Taiwan or Korea, since there are still rural areas which would enable one to REALLY get away from city life and relax (not in Singapore, where people can actually get away from city life and experience real rural life)
Since Taiwan is a Chinese society, so I would fit nicely into it but I must not allow my command of English to fall, lol.
I'm attracted to the Korean culture, their language and food so if I can migrate to Korea it would be great yet it's hard to get PR status there.
But being home-sick would be a factor too as I had lived here for 21 yrs of my life and my family and friends are all here.
Between these two places, I think the former is more suitable for you. Koreans are very different from us and there will probably always be a constant awareness that you are not a Korean, and you would not be embraced fully.
Again, my stance as always, is that you could visit Taiwan more often or try home stay for a few months, and I am sure you will have much more understanding of that place thereafter.
How have you learnt about Taiwan?
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better to be è�½å�¶å½’æ ¹
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Originally posted by John Penn:
better to be è�½å�¶å½’æ ¹
This is exactly my thinking...
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雾��洋 wu suo nan yang by you tube
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Between these two places, I think the former is more suitable for you. Koreans are very different from us and there will probably always be a constant awareness that you are not a Korean, and you would not be embraced fully.
Again, my stance as always, is that you could visit Taiwan more often or try home stay for a few months, and I am sure you will have much more understanding of that place thereafter.
How have you learnt about Taiwan?
I know there will probably be a constant awareness that I'm not Korean and not embraced fully but I guess I had to live with that if I choose to migrate to Korea. I'm currently learning about their language and culture, maybe it's a sudden interest that will fade away or maybe a long term one I would really like to experience life in Korea.
Having been to Taiwan once and during NS, I didn't really get to experience Taiwan thus I had been planning to visit Taiwan more often but from the TV programs I feel that their Chinese culture seems to be much stronger than our Chinese culture.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
I know there will probably be a constant awareness that I'm not Korean and not embraced fully but I guess I had to live with that if I choose to migrate to Korea. I'm currently learning about their language and culture, maybe it's a sudden interest that will fade away or maybe a long term one I would really like to experience life in Korea.
Having been to Taiwan once and during NS, I didn't really get to experience Taiwan thus I had been planning to visit Taiwan more often but from the TV programs I feel that their Chinese culture seems to be much stronger than our Chinese culture.
I find the TV Programmes rather entertaining as well. Yeah..., hope you will find what you seek. Good luck!
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WISHING ALL A MERRY CHRISTMAS!
!!
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Originally posted by angel7030:
WISHING ALL A MERRY CHRISTMAS!
!!And to you...
