Lee Kuan Yew's foreign talent policy destroys Singapore.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
"The Thai Canal is a pipedream" - xtreyier.
To think that this canal can materialize is a wet dream.
You know, when you guys say that this Thai Canal won't happen, what is the basis for your conclusion? Economical, or political? -
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You know, when you guys say that this Thai Canal won't happen, what is the basis for your conclusion? Economical, or political?Many claimed that if Suez canal be built, so too can the kra canal. But such reasoning are childish and flawed. Using today's tech and science, it may be possible, but the politics involve is staggering.
Very briefly and simply for better comprehension:-
1. The middle eastern desert Suez canal was exvacated mainly on soft sand and over an ancient canal built to boot. It took 10 years and used 30,000 convicts and slave labour to carve it out. Thousands died.
The Kra canal is to be created over geological granite hard formations, totally different from Suez. 24 nuclear explosions have to be detonated to form the foundation line. Keyword: Nuclear explosions, not 1 but 24! If IEA would even agree!
2.Even if possible, China in 2005 had agreed to foot the bill. But the chinese
are not doing it out of goodwill. Paybacks and management of it will fall into
chinese hands. Will Thailand agree to surrender their soveriegnity to China, an avowed enemy of ancient past?
3. Even if possible, Thailand is not a corruption free state. Think of the fights between the powerful army and the civlian elites to seize control of the lucrative port management biz. Battle Royale! not to mention efficiency to match other world class ports.
4. The cost is est to be 21billion dollars. Will the impoverished redshirts allow such extravagence instead of using it to elevate their lives?
5. Southern Thailand had been and still is a restive region, control seeked by buddhists, christians and muslims. Whomever gains control will control the wealth and ideology of the region. Another battle royale! not to mention the losers playing terrorist tactics akin to the nigerians over their oil pipelines.
6.Pirates had been active for centuries, and will only shift their operations north if the trade routes are changed. There will only be more fiercer pirates, the viets and khmers to contend with, with more island hideouts.
7. Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore had invested huge sums on developing their economies based on the traditional trade route. They will not take it lying down if it is shifted and by hook and crook will take issue with the Thais.
8. Will USA allow China to dominate and control a vital international port? Will Europe allow an inefficient restive south coupled with pirates to dominate their vital trade routes?
Thses are only the barest points. There is more. The kra canal is a pipe dream.
But with all due respects, no one can see into the future. We can only define it as logically as we can and react for the best, and adapt to changes. But today and for the next 20-30 years, Singapore will reign supreme, build up our treasury and diversify.
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This post is excessively exaggerated! IMHO, that is.
A destitute unemployed uneducated citizen is told that it is all his own fault and he should go and line up ever day at his PAP Member of Parliament’s office for a few crumbs of bread which he may or may not get. Now what about his children? They starve.
There is seriously no reasoning behind this. Proof? I'm not being a PAP-loyalist or anything like that, but hello? I mean, I would appreciate it if you could substantiate your point above, rather than to bombard the PAP in a way which does not garner much support.. not at least from me.
The people have no means of venting their grievances in this state controlled island.Are you not venting your so-called grievances? Are you not in a "state controlled island"? Do you not have the EXPLICIT freedom of speech in cyber space, AT LEAST?
The newspapers are state controlled and will not print anything negative of the government.
Hasn't negative comments of the government been printed? And widely circulated? Talk about the report on MM Lee saying that Singapore has adopted a "wrong" policy to bilingualism. Is that not negative? Besides, I dare say that you haven't been keeping a close eye on the Straits Times Forum replies by the Workers' Party regarding the LUP. The replies from the WP did not seem to portray the government in a wonderful light.
There is blatant and open racial discrimination. Malays and Indians are disadvantaged in jobs, housing and benefits, what little there is.
Clarification, please.
I'm sorry I've got to have you clarify and explain so many things, but being a Singaporean with a rather simple mind, I haven't got the brains to comprehend your very profound arguments and logic.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
hehehe...arrogant, igorant, selfish, no principle, no guts, and now lazy.
........you can also add `lau chee-ko' to your resume. which one do you swear by, tongkat ali or viagra? -
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You know, when you guys say that this Thai Canal won't happen, what is the basis for your conclusion? Economical, or political?
Thai Canal??? what canal??, i think peoples now are more interested in the Mekong River. With the insurgency of muslim and uncertainties of indochina politics and domestic condition, you think peoples will invest in a canal?? -
Originally posted by redDUST:
........you can also add `lau chee-ko' to your resume. which one do you swear by, tongkat ali or viagra?
oh! adults also flame each other like kids hor, what is tongkat Ali?? -
Originally posted by angel7030:
oh! adults also flame each other like kids hor, what is tongkat Ali??1. google it...
2. i am not flaming him. just telling him as a matter-of-factly, since he was the one to make the claim in one of his earlier posts about his prowess with his dick.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
1. google it...
2. i am not flaming him. just telling him as a matter-of-factly, since he was the one to make the claim in one of his earlier posts about his prowess with his dick.
1. hmm,..i got it they said, tongkat Fatimah is good for me, really??? must go and try.2. Anyway, not a problem, i understand, at time, adult tends to go back to childhood days. Just so funny..hehehe
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Many claimed that if Suez canal be built, so too can the kra canal. But such reasoning are childish and flawed. Using today's tech and science, it may be possible, but the politics involve is staggering.
Very briefly and simply for better comprehension:-
1. The middle eastern desert Suez canal was exvacated mainly on soft sand and over an ancient canal built to boot. It took 10 years and used 30,000 convicts and slave labour to carve it out. Thousands died.
The Kra canal is to be created over geological granite hard formations, totally different from Suez. 24 nuclear explosions have to be detonated to form the foundation line. Keyword: Nuclear explosions, not 1 but 24! If IEA would even agree!
2.Even if possible, China in 2005 had agreed to foot the bill. But the chinese
are not doing it out of goodwill. Paybacks and management of it will fall into
chinese hands. Will Thailand agree to surrender their soveriegnity to China, an avowed enemy of ancient past?
3. Even if possible, Thailand is not a corruption free state. Think of the fights between the powerful army and the civlian elites to seize control of the lucrative port management biz. Battle Royale! not to mention efficiency to match other world class ports.
4. The cost is est to be 21billion dollars. Will the impoverished redshirts allow such extravagence instead of using it to elevate their lives?
5. Southern Thailand had been and still is a restive region, control seeked by buddhists, christians and muslims. Whomever gains control will control the wealth and ideology of the region. Another battle royale! not to mention the losers playing terrorist tactics akin to the nigerians over their oil pipelines.
6.Pirates had been active for centuries, and will only shift their operations north if the trade routes are changed. There will only be more fiercer pirates, the viets and khmers to contend with, with more island hideouts.
7. Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore had invested huge sums on developing their economies based on the traditional trade route. They will not take it lying down if it is shifted and by hook and crook will take issue with the Thais.
8. Will USA allow China to dominate and control a vital international port? Will Europe allow an inefficient restive south coupled with pirates to dominate their vital trade routes?
Thses are only the barest points. There is more. The kra canal is a pipe dream.
But with all due respects, no one can see into the future. We can only define it as logically as we can and react for the best, and adapt to changes. But today and for the next 20-30 years, Singapore will reign supreme, build up our treasury and diversify.I assume this is from wiki, since the points you offered are basically 100% from the wiki page.
Let me offer you an internal perspective from the maritime industry. This project benefits countries across the globe from Europe, to Asia. Several countries were very interested in this project. The investors were not mainly from China, not as what was on wiki page. The largest container shipping companies are not from USA, but are mainly from Europe and Asia. Maersk, Evergreen, Cosco, NOL, just to name a few. All the largest shipping lines were from Europe and Asia. I don't have to continue on this to make you aware of how the combined nations were very interested in this project.
It was a real threat, one which PSA was ready to take on, by bidding for a port location on the canal. Plans were underway.
That was, until the Thai govt got into problems. An unstable govt equals to the risk of long-term investments going down the drain.
All other remarks made by you are just pure speculation.
USA intervening is pure speculation.
Pirates moving up north is another pure speculation. The reason why pirate activity exists in the straits is partly because it is NARROW, and henceforth more conducive for pirate attacks
AND, can you please understand the geographic location of Vietnam and Cambodia before making stupid remarks? They are NOT on the shipping route to countries on the eastern side of the globe. Perhaps Vietnam might be should the canal project be successful. But with the open sea, it is much more difficult for pirate activity in that area.
So for god's sake, if you don't understand how the shipping industry works, please don't open your mouth and make a fool of yourself
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Originally posted by angel7030:
oh! adults also flame each other like kids hor, what is tongkat Ali??
he is playing with himself. -
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You know, when you guys say that this Thai Canal won't happen, what is the basis for your conclusion? Economical, or political?Sources if you need verification online. For better ones, you will need to go to the reference section at our National library. Sorry I cant provide info from secure data bases, nor the right to do so.
Canal Construction on Thai Isthmus
http://www1.american.edu/TED/canalth.htm
Latest known Kra Canal activities (2005)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/jan/17/20050117-115550-1929r/?page=2
As for the situation in Thailand, I am sure you read the news daily on what's happening, for decades, present and probably in the future. I am not going to list down every article of it here, nor am I here to educate any lazy uneducated person who make demands, and pretentious assumptions. My post is meant only for your perusal for discussion sake, and for those who might want to know better instead of for dumbasses using it for egoistical reasons.
Cheers
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You know, when you guys say that this Thai Canal won't happen, what is the basis for your conclusion? Economical, or political?This canal, the kray canal has been on the board for a long time. It would have already happened if it were viable.
Suez canal and panama canal save vessels from going around africa and south america respectively. Both are continents. Kray will save vessels from travelling around the malaya pennisula. Big difference in the economics.
Suez canal save time for vessels from europe to the middle east, strategic for oil supplies and panama for vessels between the east and west coast of the US, and is of strategic importance for the US. does the kray canal has any strategic significance for any country?
Southern Thailand is potentially a problem area for Thailand with the muslim insurgents. The tension there is higher now than ever before. the project will certainly affect port klang and pelapas so I dont' think malaysia is keen to help solve the problem in southern thailand.
If singapore remains competitive as a shipping hub, shippers would still want to use Singapore for distribution to countries in the region and australia. If Singapore remains competitive and efficient as a petroleum refining center, only tankers with cargo with specific destinations would want to go via the kray, if it is economical.
So exactly how much would be the investment and how long it takes to recover the costs, nobody is certain.
If the canal is built, Singapore would be affected, no doubt, IF it is built. I think Pelapas remains a greater threat to PSA .
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PTP is not a threat to PSA (yet), because of its business model.While PSA chose to stay on a neutral model (with the exception of having dedicated terminals to certain shipping lines), PTP chose to allow Maersk to take a 30% equity stake in the port. This effectively increases priority shipping for Maersk at the expense of other shipping lines without an equity stake. PTP is attractive only to shipping lines that are small.
For the rest, they stay with PSA with its 100+ connectivity lines to all parts of the world, plus they are able to get preferential rates and fair shipping when visiting our ports. That is also the reason why the rumour about PSA combining with NOL is unfounded.
PTP will remain as part of Maersk's plan, to develop itself into a port operator-cum-shipping line business.
And, I believe Evergreen is actually back in Singapore.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
he is playing with himself.who is the delusional guy playing with himself?
dickhead your age should get a life than to post egotistical message like below.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:did they kiss in front of you? everytime? a peck on the cheek or wet tongue wrangling?
my friends don't kiss that in front of me, and I don't kiss my girlfriend or wife in front of others, may be I am very conservative. But in my bed room, in my car, when nobody around, its different...... -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
he is playing with himself.
Oh! a guy playing with himself!!, that's is bad for health and mind. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Oh! a guy playing with himself!!, that's is bad for health and mind.
a girld playing with herself is also bad. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Oh! a guy playing with himself!!, that's is bad for health and mind.
The Taiwanese "hum" returns again for its morning ritual to be irrelevant with its passion to spam each and every thread off-track with its flippant remarks filled with its characteristic idiocy.Why will the "hum" not play with itself while cloistered in its shell ?
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Sources if you need verification online. For better ones, you will need to go to the reference section at our National library. Sorry I cant provide info from secure data bases, nor the right to do so.
Canal Construction on Thai Isthmus
http://www1.american.edu/TED/canalth.htm
Latest known Kra Canal activities (2005)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/jan/17/20050117-115550-1929r/?page=2
As for the situation in Thailand, I am sure you read the news daily on what's happening, for decades, present and probably in the future. I am not going to list down every article of it here, nor am I here to educate any lazy uneducated person who make demands, and pretentious assumptions. My post is meant only for your perusal for discussion sake, and for those who might want to know better instead of for dumbasses using it for egoistical reasons.
Cheers
Taking umbrage with a worthless excuse that it "cant provide info from secure data bases, nor the right to do so" - when it had repeatedly plagiarized ideas from other data sources, without changes to the data and without making any qualification - and will shamelessly pass it as its own thoughts.
How accurate was the X-rated Fraud's claim that the canal to be built at the Isthmus of Kra is impossible due to its geology being hard granite rock formation ?
Where on earth did a X-rated Fraud dig its information from - that it will bombastically throw out for the consumption of its imaginery wider audience ?
24 Nuclear Explosions to carve a canal through imaginery rocks that exist in the mind of a X-rated Fraud addicted to its grand standing performance ?
Obviously, its addiction to being a bombastic alarmist prevents its idiocy from even realising that the residue radioactivity in the soil will render the larger areas around and adjacent to the Kra Canal to be useless - which makes the use of nuclear devices to carve the canal as a worthless hot gassed idea.
Anyone who has travelled through the northern states of Peninsular Malaysia - from Kedah to Kelatan, and crossing the Thai-Malaysia border to the Thai towns: Songkhla and Hatyaai - will notice the unique geological formation from nature's sculpturing that carved striking features of limestone outcrops.
‘Travel Promotion Websites even promote the beauty of the limestone geology of Southern Thailand’ (*1) - and invite participants to explore the many limestone caves that stretch from the coastal areas in the west, across the limestone ridge that form the north-south backbone on the Isthmus of Kra, and rolling to the eastern shores.
The website even provide a geological history of the Southeast Asian Region -
Limestone karst gives Phang Nga its complicated beauty. And anything this beautiful is always complicated.
The first important geology happened 300 million years ago when South East Asia was the largest coral reef in history.
Obviously formed under the sea, the crescent-shaped reef ran from Bali and Borneo north off Australia and drifted past Thailand, creating incredible pressures that rippled the landscape into giant ridges running North and South.
The biggest ridge became the Isthmus of Kra (Malay Peninsula), one of the World's Classic "land bridges" that wildlife used to migrate all the way to Bali and Borneo.
In its characteristic anxiety to rush to post its grand-standing ideas - did the X-rated Fraud again failed to be circumspect with its reading, and post the wrong information that it intend to use to impress its wider audience to its immense ability ?
Its claims - that the Isthmus of Kra has a geological foundation of hard granite rock formation - would have been more accurate if it had referred to the Gulf of Thailand on the east side of the Isthmus, in the disputed waters with Cambodia and Vietnam.
Here, on this eastern seaboard of the Isthmus, many Oil & Gas exploration ventures has information on the ‘Petroleum Geology of the Gulf of Thailand’ (*2) - which states:
The Gulf of Thailand contains several structurally complex trans-tensional basins.
These are made up of asymmetrical grabens filled with non-marine to marginal marine Tertiary sediments as old as Eocene. Underlying the graben sediments are a variety of Paleozoic marine carbonates, granitic intrusive rocks, and metasediments.
Many of the basins contain thick sequences of oil-prone source rocks, but the limited lateral extent of these deposits, combined with vatiations in heat flow and depth of burial of the source rocks, causes the distribution of hydrocarbons to be complex and difficult to predict.
All that said, does the limestone geology of the Isthmus of Kra present such a challenge for the construction of a canal to link the Bay of Bengal and the Indian Ocean - to the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea and beyond ?
‘The study of an alternative route to link the Indian Ocean with the Pacific Ocean to connect the coastal cities has been ongoing since the 19th century’ (*3) - research paper -
"highlights the significance of the strait to global maritime trade, volume of traffic, and rising environmental and social consequences in the strait.
The paper explores suitable sites for a potential shipping canal in the Kra Isthmus using physiographic spatial data i.e., elevation, sea charts, geology, soils and river systems.
Each spatial data was considered as a separate decision variable for site evaluation. Separate evaluation criterions were prepared for each variable based on shipping canal requirements.
Overlaying the maps in GIS environment, the variables were carefully evaluated, and five geographic sites for the canal were derived.
The length of the shipping canal over sea and land was computed for each site. Site B located in south of Ranong and Chumphon provinces, was the shortest one, whereas site C in Surat Thani, Pangnna and Krabi provinces was the longest. However, each site consisted of benefits and constraints."
Those who doubt that the canal with be built on the Isthmus of Kra has not considered that the maritime traffic passing through the Straits of Malacca has reached near congestion status, and with no possibility for the Straits to be widened - even as the vehicular-expressways can be widened if adjacent land is available.
As mega-sized bulk carriers are built for economies in scale to be achieved in the transportation sector, it will create more congestions and danger to the maritime traffic negotiating the narrow Straits of Malacca that presently allow two-way traffic.
In geopolitcal terms, China will not allow herself to be subjected to chokepoints to her maritime life-line in the event of any outbreak of political-military crisis - as in any war that breakout over the possible Taiwan unilateral declaration of independence.
As matters stand, China has explored and implemented plans to revive the Old Silk Route overland that linked China westward to Europe and the Middle-east, opened new roads and gas pipeline across the Yunan mountain range into Myanmar western coastline, and participated in the opening of the Pan-Asian Rail and Road Program that will connect Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam to China.
Concept of Kra Canal
Journey's end at Panama Canal
Is Thailand alone interested in the canal across the Isthmus of Kra ?
The construction of this canal was again considered - ‘in the 1980s, when Japan's Mitsubishi Research Institute under the leadership of Masaki Nakajima proposed over a dozen infrastructure super-projects worldwide to spur renewed global growth, the Kra project among them.’ (*4)
Now that Thailand and Malaysia had seen an opportunity for economic co-operation that will jump-start economic activities in their respective regions that have not seen development for the last 50 years, and with international interests from China, Japan, and South Korea to ensure a secure maritime route for their oil and commerce, as well as Sovereign Funds from the Middle-eastern Countries - the prospect of the canal being built looks more real in the next decade or two.
The instability of Southern Thailand is not as threatening as that which existed in the Acheh war of autonomy against central rule from Jakarta, and is even less significant that the MILF insurrections in the southern Philippines.
The Isthmus of Kra is a smaller region than the northern territory of Sumatra, and if peace has returned to the conflict regions in Sumatra and Southern Philippines, why should cynicism persist that the "storm in a tea cup" in Southern Thailand cannot be similarly resolved ?
Such jingoistic cynicism can only lull Singapore to sleep - when others will pursue with a dream to reality even if it takes a hundred years and more.
Can X-rated Fraud be trusted for its cynical short sighted views ?
Will the dog defer to its tail that controls it state of mind ?
‘Lee Kuan Yew, architect of modern Singapore, observed in an interview with the BBC in the early 70’s’ (*5) - that China plans for the next 50 to 100 years, while other countries plan for the next 10 years.
Additional reading materials: -
‘After three centuries, a Kra Canal ?’ (*6)
‘Center Stage for the 21st Century - Power Plays in the Indian Ocean’ (*7)
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A very interesting article was posted on 18 March 2009 and carried an interesting details concerning the status of the Kra Canal project.
‘Kra Canal Indian Ocean / South China Sea Project to be Re-Visited’ (*1)
The Kra Canal Project, which would link the South China Sea directly to the Indian Ocean by cutting across the Thai isthmus, has shown recent signs of being reactivated given the economic benefits it would bring to the region as well as the continuing problems with piracy in the Straits of Malacca and the current route for trade to and from India and South–East Asia to China.
The canal, which was first recognized as a potential for boosting trade in 1677, would have the same impact on South-East Asia as the Panama and Suez Canals have had elsewhere.
The canal would need to traverse a length of only 44 kilometers at the narrowest point of the Thai peninsula, however with rocky land of up to 75 meters above sea level; the engineering and labor requirements would be huge.
China, not surprisingly, has offered to lend considerable assistance to the development of the project, which was tentatively approved by the Thai Senate in 2007.
The project is currently stalled due to “environmental concerns”, however, this is largely interpreted as meaning political wrangling over the project, which has plenty of detractors. Two major voices of dissent are the Singapore Government, who would stand to lose their preeminent position as a shipping hub for South-East Asia, and the previous Bush administration in the United States, who’s then Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld showed concern about the plan amidst growing concern of developing Chinese influence in the region.
The cost of the project is estimated at US$20 billion, and would take ten years to complete, with some 30,000 workers being involved.
The project would also compliment the Highway 44 overland route, which links the West and East coasts of Thailand, and has currently been stalled with some 50 kilometers to go at either end – a victim of the recent political turmoil in Thailand.
However, with domestic politics apparently heading for smoother waters and the previous Bush regime now out of the way, the Kra Canal project is certain to come back into public view, and with South-East nations keen to develop trade with China, the project looks certain to come back to the drawing board.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
A very interesting article was posted on 18 March 2009 and carried an interesting details concerning the status of the Kra Canal project.
This one call interesting, in my primary school day in the 90s, already read so many time this type of news about kra Canal, but until now, that place is only good for Singapore political refugees. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
The Taiwanese "hum" returns again for its morning ritual to be irrelevant with its passion to spam each and every thread off-track with its flippant remarks filled with its characteristic idiocy.Why will the "hum" not play with itself while cloistered in its shell ?
The only problem with older adults is that they alway think that they are smarter and cleverer, and when kids talk abit only, they start to tell us off...yak!! -
This article appear in Shin Min Daily - Chinese Newspaper - Thailand canal. Due to political issue.
Zao Bao (Jun - Jul) - forgot the exact date 2009 Front page - Malaysia govt propose to built a bridge at the Straits of Malacca from Malaca to Indonesia. Just need Indonesia Governement agreement only.
So, Singapore Govt hope by yr 2015, Singaporean able to travel to China (Kun Min) through railway - train only.
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Originally posted by Greytan49:
This article appear in Shin Min Daily - Chinese Newspaper - Thailand canal. Due to political issue.
Zao Bao (Jun - Jul) - forgot the exact date 2009 Front page - Malaysia govt propose to built a bridge at the Straits of Malacca from Malaca to Indonesia. Just need Indonesia Governement agreement only.
So, Singapore Govt hope by yr 2015, Singaporean able to travel to China (Kun Min) through railway - train only.
Uncle, tigerairway to kuming on $19, about 6 hrs, you go on train??? wha lau, wu siao bo!!! -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Uncle, tigerairway to kuming on $19, about 6 hrs, you go on train??? wha lau, wu siao bo!!!
hello, can you just shut up! "Genius". -
