The French are really an idiot.
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The Palestinians are the pariahs of everywhere they have been...
No one wants to deal with their treachery...
As in why no one wants to step in, it's going to be more problems cropping up because of the Arab world's insane hatred for Israel.
"Palestinians" were allowed as refugees and were basically left alone to find jobs and stuff in Jordan. What did they do? Yasser Arafat tried to assassinate their King. The late-King Hussein of Jordan was so enraged that he ordered all of them deported... with much violence... it is estimated that about 10,000 Palestinians were slaughtered.
In the recent past, Barak, in what was an extremely unpopular move, tried to make peace with the Palestinians. He offered 98% of their demands unconditionally. The remaining 2% was negotiable and subject to step-by-step handing over of power. In what would be the most damaging move to everyone involved, Arafat walked out! And then he went and launched the current Intifadah.
The Palestinians are just cannon-fodder and used by the Arabs to destroy Israel. They did not exist before Israel's current incarnation and these people willingly let themselves be used.
Arafat has secretly amassed over US$2 billion in Swiss accounts. Outwardly he is supposedly one of the richest around with a personal disclosed fortune of a few hundred million. This fortune is from maintaining a monopoly of all trade in his territories.. something which he will have to let go of if there is peace.
So for letting his own family live in luxury in the French Riviera, "his own people" (who are not, he's actually Egyptian) must suffer, die and fight Israelis.
The Palestinian problem cannot be solved unless there is a power move away from the PLO, which is first and foremost a Terrorist Organisation.
The Palestinians brought this upon themselves.... before, the Israelis allowed them citizenship, rights same as any Israeli. But no.. they'd rather be cannon-fodder... they'd rather suffer and die so that they can play victim... to them, maybe it's easier than taking personal responsibility and work, live and make a proper life for themselves and their children.Originally posted by kyas:Think about this as well... What about Israel and Palestine ... it has been more than 50 years... still unresolved... they keep supplying weapons for israel... and the palestine? zero... so many people were killed... why don't they just step in... and say " wey... enough la wey..." heheh... instead of the talks... the negotiations... 50 years man... 50 years... if i were a palestinian, my whole life is full with cries and sadness...... -
Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed and Sloth
Pride... the Pride of past glories which cannot be in the present
Envy... of the developed countries which hold economic power
Gluttony... which caused them to lose their edge and ultimately their downfall
Lust... for the power which other people hold because they achieved
Anger... at their own impotence and the objects of their envy
Greed... which made them want more than they are willing to work for
Sloth... they were unwilling to work and pay the price what they envy and are greedy for.
which leads to why people like Saddam wade into Kuwait to loot... and on a smaller scale, why people rob and steal..Originally posted by kyas:WHY CAN'T THEY JUST STOP THE KILLINGS... THE WARS... WHY MUST THERE BE ACTS OF TERRORIST... WHY CAN'T THEY JUST SIT TOGETHER... ENJOY THE PEACE... WE HAVE SEEN ALL THESE... THE CRIMES... THE MASSACRE... THE VICTIMS... THE JEWS .. THE BOSNIANS... THE CHECHEN... THE PALESTINE... KASHMIR... THE KURDISH... MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE BECOMES THE VICTIMS... WHAT IF ONE DAY SOMEBODY STEP INTO MY HOUSE AND SHOOT MY FAMILY BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT WE ARE POTENTIAL TERRORIST....
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First of all, why are you stereotyping a race or nation?? Are you American? Because only someone as ignorant as an American would say that. (Mind my hypocrisy) Have you ever been to Paris? How are the French idiots? If they're idiots, why do they hold a permanent seat on the UN security council? Do you just hate them for opposing the United States view of Iraq? (which is greatly biased, if you have not been researching) Why are their LuClercs and Rafaels comparable to Abrams and F16's? Please don't be racist like that, because it's only something low people would say. This is Singapore, not America.
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politics is a game....
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I am stunned by the views of the people here... Before I start I better say this is gonna be anti US comments
Wat is the justification of war to the Iraq ? Yes, they did a lot of things in the past. They gassed people they fight the kuwait and iran. Howeevr they lose the war years ago and was punished then. During these 10 years, wat have they done ? They didn't start any war and they didn't do any mass killing. Why fight them now ? US say they have weopons of mass destruction, and want them to disarm. Isn't tat wat Iraq is doing before the war ? They destroy lots of missile isn't it ? Why ask them to disarm when they doesn't give them time for it ? Why planned the attack by deploying tons of troops even before they had produce any concrete evidence or inspectors finding anything ? Do u think if they find nothing, they won't attack after such cost of deploying them ? Up till now, they have no concrete proof yet. Chief Inspector still ask for more time and say Iraq cooperate fully.
Iraqis wanna avoid this war. Their weopons r 3 generations behind and their missile can't go for more than 100km. US fighting with such force is bullying. And they can't fight violence with mroe violence. This only works temporary. After this war, more terrorist is borne,more terrorist acts will start. Wat is the root of terrorism ? They r adding fuel to it instead of plucking the problems from the roots.
If they r so sincere about preemptive strikes, why don't they attack North Korean then, which they officially declare that it has weopons of mass destruction. The leader in North Korea isn't an angel either. U talk about cruelty during these past 10 years, I find that u can talk more about him than Saddam. They have weopons of longer range, more power and they r closer to US. Why not disarm them first ? REason is.. Iraq have lots of oil. North Korea has lots of hungry people. If they win Iraq, they can control the second highest oil producing country. If they beat Koreans, they have to spend tons of money trying to improve Korea's living conditions. It is all about oil. I can't think of a better reason than this.
Yes, maybe french and US is same. They r after the money. But the act they did is diferent. French is protecting its investment. US is robbing it. French of course should be in the permanent council !It is because they have the guts to be in the opposition. US is bullying everyone to support its policy. HE is giving the attitude tat if u support me, I give u the carrot. If u don't I give u the stick. He doesn't allow nations to take their stand on their own free will !!! If there is no French, every nation will be bullied into supporting US for all its policies !! It takes lot of morale courage to do tis !
Kicking doors open to find evidence is another stupid argument. Last time for attack in Afgan, they have the evidence and naturally support from UN is given. The finding of evidence later acts as a BONUS. We cannot attack, hoping to find evidence after it if we cannot justify our attack first ! War is not about just kicking doors open ! It is about going in your house, killing all your family members and friends and burn down your house and robbing all your possessions ! Wat happend if there isn't any evidence as they hope they can find ? wat ? Say sorry ?? -
This question should be directed to a Muslim audience, as the NON-Muslim cannot possibly give any satisfactory answer as to why "many muslims in Singapore....feel that Osama's and his Jihads are justified".Originally posted by rudyiskandar:From my knowledge, many muslims in singapore still belive that they have been unjustly targeted by other races and I am not suprise to learn that actually, many feels that Osama's and his Jihad's are justified.
Why is that so?
If you are a Muslim, perhaps you could give a calm and clear dissertation as to why Singaporean Muslims feel this way (do they ? and how do you come to this conclusion?) -
Excuse me for replying to your post with insertions, as you have opened many points that is best addressed specifically:
The Iraqis - or its government led by Saddam Hussein - was given TWELVE Years to disarm, but did not.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I am stunned by the views of the people here... Before I start I better say this is gonna be anti US comments
Wat is the justification of war to the Iraq ? Yes, they did a lot of things in the past. They gassed people they fight the kuwait and iran. Howeevr they lose the war years ago and was punished then. During these 10 years, wat have they done ? They didn't start any war and they didn't do any mass killing. Why fight them now ? US say they have weopons of mass destruction, and want them to disarm. Isn't tat wat Iraq is doing before the war ? They destroy lots of missile isn't it ? Why ask them to disarm when they doesn't give them time for it ? Why planned the attack by deploying tons of troops even before they had produce any concrete evidence or inspectors finding anything ? Do u think if they find nothing, they won't attack after such cost of deploying them ? Up till now, they have no concrete proof yet. Chief Inspector still ask for more time and say Iraq cooperate fully.
After the 1992 Gulf War (Dessert Storm), the Iraqi Government DENIED possessing any Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD), but by the time the First UN Disarmament Inspection Team worked through from 1992 to 1998, this first UN Inspection Team was shocked to discover that Saddam had an organised and secret development PLUS production plan for producing Chemical and Biological WMD, and was in an advance stage of developing a Nuclear Device. This First Team confronted Saddam Hussein with evidence of his WMD program, which Saddam adamantly denied and accused the Head of this First Inspection Team of being a C.I.A spy, and threw out the entire UN Inspection Team in 1998.
Since 1998 till November 2002, Saddam was left alone without any UN Inspectors to monitor or verify the stockpile discovered during the Frist Inspection Team, and with present revelations of records that remain INCOMPLETE as to the status of those stocks, and the RAW MATERIALS that were purchased to produce MORE stocks.
BTW, Han Blix is a soft fool, and is easily manipulated by the likes of Saddam. He made a bungle by not discovering the Iranian Nuclear Program, and actually gave the Iranians a clean bill that no nuclear program exist in Iran. What have we today in Iran - if you are into current affairs in daily news ?
Also, in his last report to the UN Security Council, Han Blix did not say that Saddam Hussein's government is cooperating fully. He actually said that Saddam Hussein's government could have DONE MORE than they are currently doing.
if you believe that Saddam desire peace, you might as well believe that "Mahatir loves Singapore".
Iraqis wanna avoid this war. Their weopons r 3 generations behind and their missile can't go for more than 100km. US fighting with such force is bullying. And they can't fight violence with mroe violence. This only works temporary. After this war, more terrorist is borne,more terrorist acts will start. Wat is the root of terrorism ? They r adding fuel to it instead of plucking the problems from the roots.
Even if the current weapon in Iraq is 3 generation behind, even if the Iraqi population is starving since 1980, that did not stop Saddam Hussein from waging an 8 year war with Iran that cost more then 1,000,000 lives; it did not stop Saddam Hussein from invading and plundering Kuwait and resulted in the useless destruction of the lives that resulted in the reduction of his military by half the original manpower and equipment; it did not stop him from building more then 10 palaces, and dozens of monuments that glorified him while his people die from lack of food and medicine
Yet he continue to play for time, instead of giving up his WMD within THREE Months - similar to Hans Blix experience to ensure that South Africa's voluntary destruction of its nuclear program is verifyably accounted for inside THREE MONTHS.
You are giving USA a hard time, in your statement that amount to "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't".
If they r so sincere about preemptive strikes, why don't they attack North Korean then, which they officially declare that it has weopons of mass destruction. The leader in North Korea isn't an angel either. U talk about cruelty during these past 10 years, I find that u can talk more about him than Saddam. They have weopons of longer range, more power and they r closer to US. Why not disarm them first ? REason is.. Iraq have lots of oil. North Korea has lots of hungry people. If they win Iraq, they can control the second highest oil producing country. If they beat Koreans, they have to spend tons of money trying to improve Korea's living conditions. It is all about oil. I can't think of a better reason than this.
The difference between North Korea and Iraq is that North Korea has friends and supporters, who will intervene directly if the USA attack North Korea. In Iraq's case, it is because of Saddam Hussein, that Iraq has no friends that will help. In any case, the Arab world is famous for "many head talk and scream but no action". With regards to the handling of the North Korean matter, USA has given respect to the presence of China and Russia, as well as South Korea and Japan. USA has stated that this is a problem that has to be addressed by the countries of East Asia; while Saddam Hussein is a pariah even within the Arab world.
You will forget the oil issue as a reason, if you find out the size of the oil reserves that remain untouched as its natural resource inside the USA, and you will be shocked.
Are you now saying that Singapore was bullied to be one of the 40 odd nations that are siding with the USA in forming the Coalition of the Willing, in this current Operation Iraqi Freedom ?
Yes, maybe french and US is same. They r after the money. But the act they did is diferent. French is protecting its investment. US is robbing it. French of course should be in the permanent council !It is because they have the guts to be in the opposition. US is bullying everyone to support its policy. HE is giving the attitude tat if u support me, I give u the carrot. If u don't I give u the stick. He doesn't allow nations to take their stand on their own free will !!! If there is no French, every nation will be bullied into supporting US for all its policies !! It takes lot of morale courage to do tis !
How did you come to this conclusion ? Were there some big stick hanging on our heads before the Singapore Government openly declare the Singapore Stand on this War as being JUSTIFIED ?
Did the United Nation give a clear vote for the USA to enter Afghanistan ?
Kicking doors open to find evidence is another stupid argument. Last time for attack in Afgan, they have the evidence and naturally support from UN is given. The finding of evidence later acts as a BONUS. We cannot attack, hoping to find evidence after it if we cannot justify our attack first ! War is not about just kicking doors open ! It is about going in your house, killing all your family members and friends and burn down your house and robbing all your possessions ! Wat happend if there isn't any evidence as they hope they can find ? wat ? Say sorry ??
Although the entire world was horrified at the visuals news reels of the collapsing WTC in NYC on 9-11, nearly the same nations were hesistant and demanded to understand the legality of USA threats in destroying the Taleban Government of Afghanistan - if it does not surrender OSAMA bin Laden. Nearly the entire Muslim World were condemning USA for threatening the Taleban Government, and demanded PROOF, SOLID and VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE to convince the World that OSAMA is responsible for the 9-11 WTC incident ? Are we not hearing the same echoes again ?
Tell that to our Singapore Internal Security Department that they cannot kick down the doors of anyone of the Twenty odd J.I. members and arrest them BEFORE the evidence were found.
Just because you suspect them, and have no evidence YET, you cannot break down the doors, to enter and search for those evidence.
i am not so sure if you and I will be exchanging ideas in this Forum if those J.I. fellas had succeeded, and our I.S.D fellas had practised your style of managing security. -
Excuse my saying but ur hypocrisy is not excused. If to take ur measure, does siding with the french, russians or chinese make us any of these nationals? If so, isn't that also stereotyping them? Everyone is entitled to his/her view and opinion.Originally posted by Nighth4wk:First of all, why are you stereotyping a race or nation?? Are you American? Because only someone as ignorant as an American would say that. (Mind my hypocrisy)Please don't be racist like that, because it's only something low people would say. This is Singapore, not America.
What entitles u to presume that racism exists only in america and not elsewhere? Just because our front pages are not splashed with headlines that scream "racism strikes!" does not imply that singapore is free from racism. In any case how does anti-saddam constitute to being a racist?
Please dun make sweeping assumptions about others just because u interpret comments from an acute angle. That itself is a biased view. -
Originally posted by Atobe:really long stuff
always enjoyed reading your stuffs.
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Current Affairs Manager, COB
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Way to go Atobe
Your points are valid and exactly to my sentiments
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I was talking about this with the guys in the office.
I introduced this scenario:
Think about the 4 tons of ammonium nitrate the JI wanted to use to blow up Yishun.
Let's say Saddam gave them a flask of Plague.
Exchange that 4 tons with a vacuum flask. Brought into Singapore, opened or broken in Orchard Road on a Saturday afternoon.
By Tuesday morning, most of Singapore is dead.
It is real... very real...
I am not in favour of violence but some things need to be done. -
With modern computer and mobile phone technologies, you can switch on your airconditioners at home, by dialling your handphone.
Picture this scenario, send one unit of a TWENTY FOOT container, stuffed with radioactive material, and mixed with 10,000 kg of TNT, connected to a detonator that is hooked up to a mobile phone.
Let the TWENTY FOOT container be shipped and delivered to our PSA warehouse, with a false Consignee.
On arrival, the TWENTY FOOT container will be unloaded from the Ship, and stored at a PSA warehouse, waiting for clearance.
A long distance call, using a satellite phone can easily reach the mobile phone within the TWENTY FOOT container, sending an electrical impulse to the detonator, which provide the initial blast to blow up the 10,000 kg of TNT, that will flatten the entire PSA warehouse, and in the process blowing all the radioactive waste into the upward rush of a mushrooming cloud over Singapore.
Good-bye Joes and Janes - and for the next few generations, the horrors of nuclear radiation and poisoning will cut across all ethnicity, race and religion.
This is the real threat of mad men such as Osama Bin Laden, with ambitious schizos such as Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong IL - all of whom are little men with big ego, and an unstoppable ambition to put their mark on the world history.
The French seems to have forgotten their experience during the period prior to, and the period of horrors of occupied France in WW-2. -
wah kaoz.. are u a minister behind the computer?Originally posted by Atobe:With modern computer and mobile phone technologies, you can switch on your airconditioners at home, by dialling your handphone.
Picture this scenario, send one unit of a TWENTY FOOT container, stuffed with radioactive material, and mixed with 10,000 kg of TNT, connected to a detonator that is hooked up to a mobile phone.
Let the TWENTY FOOT container be shipped and delivered to our PSA warehouse, with a false Consignee.
On arrival, the TWENTY FOOT container will be unloaded from the Ship, and stored at a PSA warehouse, waiting for clearance.
A long distance call, using a satellite phone can easily reach the mobile phone within the TWENTY FOOT container, sending an electrical impulse to the detonator, which provide the initial blast to blow up the 10,000 kg of TNT, that will flatten the entire PSA warehouse, and in the process blowing all the radioactive waste into the upward rush of a mushrooming cloud over Singapore.
Good-bye Joes and Janes - and for the next few generations, the horrors of nuclear radiation and poisoning will cut across all ethnicity, race and religion.
This is the real threat of mad men such as Osama Bin Laden, with ambitious schizos such as Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong IL - all of whom are little men with big ego, and an unstoppable ambition to put their mark on the world history. -
he does not have to be... this has been described as a "dirty bomb".
terrorists were stopped trying to do something like that before.Originally posted by Master -_-:wah kaoz.. are u a minister behind the computer? -
Don't know about u guys but u think a war will stop tat ? Terrorrists will be more determined and they will gathered more support from community due to this war. The threats of dirty bombs r incredible and hope everyone realise no matter how cautious a government is, there will always be a loophole somewhere. Just a person driving a car can crash into a police station or a big truck crashing into DBS building will cause enough devastation. War only make terrorists problems worse.
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If you think doing nothing would stop the terrorist, you are going to exist (not live... but exist) in fear for the rest of your life.
Appeasement?
Look what happened to that philosophy in WWII...Originally posted by stupidissmart:Don't know about u guys but u think a war will stop tat ? Terrorrists will be more determined and they will gathered more support from community due to this war. The threats of dirty bombs r incredible and hope everyone realise no matter how cautious a government is, there will always be a loophole somewhere. Just a person driving a car can crash into a police station or a big truck crashing into DBS building will cause enough devastation. War only make terrorists problems worse. -
so now... UN is no longer relevant...
there is no need to have international laws...
US can do watever they want... and you guys are happy with that... -
As if the UN ever mattered.
The US played the game... while others flipped the UN the bird. Saddam did that for 12 years! Israel did that, the Palestinians did that, the various despots everywhere did that.. while the US are expected to follow "the rules" which no one gives a rat's ass about?
What international law is everyone on about that allows Sierra Leone's rebels to hack of limbs of children to intimidate the population?
What international law came to the aid of the Israeli civilians when Palestinian maniacs ran into a university deli and detonated a bomb strapped to himself?
What international law allowed Saddam to get away with looting a country and still be able to walk free in his own country?
International law is crap when no one is allowed to wield a stick to enforce it. Unenforceable law is no law.
Frankly, I'd rather the US wield that stick than let a bunch of terrorists and despots do whatever they like, whenever they like and to whomever they like!Originally posted by kyas:so now... UN is no longer relevant...
there is no need to have international laws...
US can do watever they want... and you guys are happy with that... -
i am a muslim... a malaysian muslim... and i do not agree with your statement...Originally posted by rudyiskandar:From my knowledge, many muslims in singapore still belive that they have been unjustly targeted by other races and I am not suprise to learn that actually, many feels that Osama's and his Jihad's are justified.
Why is that so?
IF... i repeat the word... IF... he is really the one who kills thousands of innocent people in the WTC... that was not jihad... that was a crime
but US is now also act terrorists... many civilians were killed and injured... it also proved that they are actually incompetent... Osama is still around after killing so many people... now they claimed that Saddam was killed or injured... heheh... -
they can create fake evidence... as usual... they cannot be trusted... they lied before... not impossible that they will lie again...Originally posted by stupidissmart:Kicking doors open to find evidence is another stupid argument. Last time for attack in Afgan, they have the evidence and naturally support from UN is given. The finding of evidence later acts as a BONUS. We cannot attack, hoping to find evidence after it if we cannot justify our attack first ! War is not about just kicking doors open ! It is about going in your house, killing all your family members and friends and burn down your house and robbing all your possessions ! Wat happend if there isn't any evidence as they hope they can find ? wat ? Say sorry ?? -
True...
I kind of place my trust in Justice. The US, when their lea-duhs are found guilty of betrayal of a public trust, are put through the wringer...
Nixon was one who was discredited.
Clinton was almost... but they realised it was something personal.
As those who are found lying will be put through the wringer.. and you can believe that because they have people there who would very happily expose the lies.
However, with things like Saddam, his forays into biological weapons and scarier things, his covert support for terror, he has no one to answer to.
There is nothing more fearsome than someone with dangerous weapons, delusions of grandeur, complete lack of conscience and a devious mind who knows what advantages these traits and tools can provide...
I would hope that Saddam goes... and somehow along the way, Dubbya also gets discredited...
p.s.
I forgot to add... Saddam also has a world audience with short memories which he can pander to, a whole Arab world who is easy to manipulate to hate the US and Israel and every pacifist out there who has forgotten how brutal he can be.
BTW, for those who say that Bush has no right to muscle Saddam out of power, should see how Saddam muscled his way intop power.
oh well.. everyone has the right to think whichever way they want to think...Originally posted by kyas:they can create fake evidence... as usual... they cannot be trusted... they lied before... not impossible that they will lie again... -
Finally, when the evidence - (of AL-QAEDA involvement in 9-11) - were found and gathered in the ruins of Taleban operated safe houses that were hastily vacated, the entire Muslim World ignored this fact.Originally posted by kyas:they can create fake evidence... as usual... they cannot be trusted... they lied before... not impossible that they will lie again...
There was no apology for the accusations of USA attacking Islam, or that USA was destroying Afghanistan and the Afghanis.
There was only muted silence and resentment in the Muslim for being proven wrong.
The same is being repeated.
Why does the Arab countries - (and the Muslim World) - remain muted to the atrocities of terror, rape, and murder against the Iraqi Citizens by Saddam Hussein, his sons, and his henchmen ?
Yet, when the opportunity of ridding the world of another despot by USA, the Arab countries (except for Kuwait) and the general Muslim World howled and screamed that Iraqi citizens are being killed and maimed.
We should be listening to those Iraqis, who have escaped with their lives, and are able to speak freely - as they are enthusiastic of the opportunity for freedom and a brighter future when the USA has liberated Iraq of its cruel despot. -
yeah yeah...... so how do not doing anything solve the problemOriginally posted by stupidissmart:Don't know about u guys but u think a war will stop tat ? Terrorrists will be more determined and they will gathered more support from community due to this war. The threats of dirty bombs r incredible and hope everyone realise no matter how cautious a government is, there will always be a loophole somewhere. Just a person driving a car can crash into a police station or a big truck crashing into DBS building will cause enough devastation. War only make terrorists problems worse.
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That is something that surprised me to a certain extend tooOriginally posted by Atobe:Why does the Arab countries - (and the Muslim World) - remain muted to the atrocities of terror, rape, and murder against the Iraqi Citizens by Saddam Hussein, his sons, and his henchmen ?
Yet, when the opportunity of ridding the world of another despot by USA, the Arab countries (except for Kuwait) and the general Muslim World howled and screamed that Iraqi citizens are being killed and maimed.
We should be listening to those Iraqis, who have escaped with their lives, and are able to speak freely - as they are enthusiastic of the opportunity for freedom and a brighter future when the USA has liberated Iraq of its cruel despot.
Maybe not that surprised as sometimes people have a clouded and unclear, limited, short-term mind.
I feel that for the interest of the majority in the world, this war must be fought and success MUST be the only outcome.
The anti-war group of people always chant "peace, no war", "make love not war" but how do they expect peace without war in this particular Iraq situation
12 years is a time too long to right things. They offer talks only but no solution better than war