Dewan Rakyat unanimously condemns attack on Iraq by US
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KUALA LUMPUR, March 24: The Dewan Rakyat, led by Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad, unanimously passed a motion today condemning the unilateral military action by the United States and its allies against Iraq.
The Prime Minister, in tabling the motion, had proposed seven resolutions, including condemning the attack on Iraq and demanding an immediate end to the conflict.
Taking the cue from Dr Mahathir, who called on Malaysians to unite in protesting the senseless war, Members of Parliament, including those from Opposition parties, threw their support behind the motion.
It was the second time this month the lawmakers stood united on the Iraq issue, having supported a motion two weeks ago which lambasted threats by the US to take unilateral action against Iraq.
The House adjourned its proceeding under Standing Orders 27(3) to debate today's motion, which was telecast live by RTM.
Among those who spoke in support of the motion were Datuk Seri Dr Ling Liong Sik (MCA), Nasharuddin Mat Isa (Pas), Wan Junaidi Tuanku Jaafar (PBB), S. Sothinathan (MIC), Dr Maximus Ongkili (PBS), Kerk Kim Hock (DAP) and Ramli Ibrahim (Parti Keadilan Nasional).
Dr Mahathir had proposed that the House adopt the following resolutions: l To condemn in the strongest terms possible the unilateral military action by the United States and its allies; l To urge the US and its allies to immediately end military action against Iraq; l To urge all related parties to strive to immediately return to the use of peaceful means in ensuring that Iraq adheres to Security Council resolutions in the event Iraq is found to possess weapons of mass destruction; l To demand that the US and its allies respect the human rights of the Iraqis and principles of international humanity, especially the "Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war"; l Resolve that Malaysia co-operate with Non-Aligned Movement members and countries sharing similar views in defending international laws and the United Nations Charter in dealing with issues among nations; l To appeal to the international community to immediately extend emergency humanitarian assistance to the people of Iraq; and, l The House resolve to convey the resolutions to all legislative assemblies and parliaments, especially those of the US, Britain, Spain and Australia.
Describing the attack as a black spot in history, Dr Mahathir said a superpower, together with its allies, had chosen to attack a weaker nation which was incapable of defending itself.
"Casting aside international laws, humanity and justice, they attacked a country which no longer has the capability to defend itself, what more posing a threat to the superpowers.
"Claims that Iraq is dangerous and a threat to the world with its weapons of mass destruction are totally illogical and cannot be accepted as the reason for launching the attack." Dr Mahathir said the US-led attack, with massive bombing and employing sophisticated weapons, was directed against Iraq which had earlier been stripped of its defence by the UN.
"This is not war because the attackers are the world's superpowers and the one under attack is a defenceless country. Surely, victory will side with the attackers in a matter of time.
"But whether it will be a short or long war, the fact is that many Iraqis will be killed or injured." Malaysia, Dr Mahathir said, concurred with the views that weapons of mass destruction were a threat to the international community.
"The world does not need this kind of weapon. What needs to be done is to destroy these weapons without any country being given special treatment. "But we find that while prohibitions are imposed against Iraq, no such thing is being applied to its enemy, Israel." He said: "Can Israel, which is wantonly murdering the Palestinians, be trusted not to use weapons of mass destruction like nuclear bombs against its enemies?" The Prime Minister said the unilateral action by the US had farreaching consequences as it meant weak and small nations were no longer safe and the UN could no longer offer them any protection from major powers.
"The UN and international laws are now meaningless. We have returned to the Stone Age where might dictates right. "We can predict in the future of countries whose sovereignty will be trampled by the superpowers.
"Accusations can be levelled that certain countries are not democratic and they have failed to observe human rights and freedom of religion. "The accusers will interfere directly to change governments, effect a regime change, evict leaders from their countries and even order the assasination of those who they dislike.
"This is the world after the destruction of international laws and the UN by the US. There is no more ‘the rule of law' because those who created this slogan have now violated it." Dr Mahathir called on the weak nations to unite.
Considering that the major powers had no qualms about dismissing the UN, they would face continuous threats and be re-colonised, he said.
"Whatever our differences are, I am confident nobody among us wants the country to be re-colonised." Dr Mahathir also called on nongovernmental organisations in the country to contact their counterparts in the US and Britain, urging them to convince their governments to stop the war.
"Only the Americans and British can stop their governments from attacking Iraq and return to the UN. If governments rejecting the role of the world body are rejected by their own people, perhaps the new governments will subscribe to the UN." The Prime Minister said the Government would like to see all mosques performing sembahyang hajat (special prayers) to pray for an immediate end to the war. He urged the followers of other religions to pray for an end to the war.
P/S: PROUD TO BE MALAYSIAN -
i support U.S, George Bush is a hero, Tony Blair is a hero
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wat good does passing a resolution that says "we condemn u!" do?
so what, they're gonna boycott all US companies and block all trade wif US, UK, spain, et al? -
Sorry to say this, but as Mahatir gets through each day that adds to his age, he is showing himself to be an IDIOT, as bad as the Malaysian Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar.
During the Non-Aligned Movement meeting in Kuala Lumpur, he and his Foreign Minister tried to upstage the Arabs, by trying to organise a Muslim Forum to counter US and UK aggressive intentions towards Saddam Hussein (not Iraq).
Unfortunately, for Mahatir and Syed Hamid, both were denied the opportunity by the Arab member countries attending the NAM conference in Kuala Lumpur - resulting in this Muslim Forum being aborted.
To save face, the Malaysian Foreign Minister had to make a lame excuse that Malaysia was only making an effort on behalf of O.I.C
Just before Malaysia's PM Mahatir left for the Conference of the Organisation of Islamic Countries, he made a blustering speech that USA upcoming attack on IRAQ, is an ATTACK on ISLAM.
Surprisingly, on his return from the O.I.C. conference, he adopted a low profile, and the Malaysian Newspapers did not feature his attendance at the O.I.C conference.
More surprisingly, Mahatir now says that USA aggression towards Iraq is NOT AGAINST Islam. -
what can i say? that crybaby wanted to quit, even our LKY can last longer. he's going to quit soon that's why he want to spout as much rubbish as he can before he quit.
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it is not about mahathir or hamid albar... it is not about OIC or NAM... the matter was discussed in the summit because Iraq is a member of the two organisation... it is not about any political issues... it is not about religion of Islam... even PAS and DAP admited it that this is not a religous issue...
this is about humanity... this is about our stand on the attack against iraq... we are able to put aside our political ideology... unanimously... and stand united... to say in one voice that we are against the war... or any war...
what can we do... we cant stop the war... but we have sent our doctors and nurses under the MERCY organisation... we have organised donation campaigns to help the Iraqis... at least we do something... -
At the recently concluded conference of the Arab League - (all Arab Countries with the exception of Kuwait), these ARAB Countries only issued a statement "demanding" USA to stop their aggression towards Iraq.
NONE of these Arab countries issued any statement CONDEMNING the USA for their aggression.
Why should Malaysia - a NON-Arab Country - take it on themselves to CONDEMN the US for their work to disarm Iraq ?
The problem with the Arab world - (and unfortunately, by extension most Muslim Countries) - is that they see the world with "RED" lenses each time when the alphabets USA is written or spoken.
With Saddam Hussein holding a strong grip over the Iraqi Citizens - by terror, rape, and murder - who in Iraq will be able to stand up against Saddam Hussein, his murderous sons, his "Fedayeen" henchmen, and his Republican Guards ?
Yet the entire Muslim World turn a blind eye to the maiming, the torture, the murder of up-right Iraqi Nationals, who dare to object Saddam Hussein, his government, and his family.
If PM Mahatir and the Malaysian Parliament has any sense of goodwill towards the Iraqi People, then they should consider the larger interests of ridding the world of a cruel and murderous ruler who claim to be a devout Muslim - ONLY when it is convenient.
Does Islam condone the use of rape, torture, terror and murder to rule an Islamic Country ?
Try visiting this site:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/World/2020_iraqiwomen030321.html
Unfortunately, this article was taken off ABCnews website, but fortunately, the entire article was posted by Atobe at the following thread:
"Why I oppose the happening on Iraq"
Page 1, 22 March 2003 09:53pm. -
Hahahah...then hor Malaysia will eat shit liao...... say onli lah.... becos of them "True God". I dun believe any god will teach their followers saying that they are the onli true god...that was totally bullshitting. onli the devil does thatOriginally posted by nismoS132:wat good does passing a resolution that says "we condemn u!" do?
so what, they're gonna boycott all US companies and block all trade wif US, UK, spain, et al? -
Originally posted by Atobe:
correction... we do not condemn the US for disarming Iraq... we condemn the war against iraq... what happen is not disarming... disarming is different from bombing civillians...
[b]Why should Malaysia - a NON-Arab Country - take it on themselves to CONDEMN the US for their work to disarm Iraq ?
If PM Mahatir and the Malaysian Parliament has any sense of goodwill towards the Iraqi People, then they should consider the larger interests of ridding the world of a cruel and murderous ruler who claim to be a devout Muslim - ONLY when it is convenient.
Does Islam condone the use of rape, torture, terror and murder to rule an Islamic Country ?
[/b]
do we have to be arabs to say that we are against the attack...? as i told you it is not about religion or race (if i may add)... it is about humanity...
islam does not allow all that... we cannot just interfere any country whenever we want... we believe that any action against any country must with the consent of the UN... in line with the international rules... -
No, you are right, you don't have to be an Arab country to condemn USA for the aggression against Iraq; BUT surprisingly the statement release from the recently concluded Arab League "DID NOT condemn USA for its aggression"
If the Arab League (or the Organisation of Arab Countries) did not condemn USA for the "aggression" against Iraq, but merely "REQUEST" the USA to stop its invasion of Iraq, why should Malaysia be more vocal then the Arabs care to be, in the defense of Saddam Hussein, or even on behalf of Iraq or her citizens ?
Where is the sense of Malaysian Government "Humanity" towards the ORDINARY Iraqi Citizens, whom Saddam Hussein's henchmen put to terror, torture, rape and murder, just so to preserve his hold on political power ?
What kind of humanity is this that allow Iraq to play games to hide its WMD, and put the world's security at risk ? -
Originally posted by Atobe:
why can't we be more vocal than the arabs? just because that we are not arabs? i would like to repeat this is not a racial issue... and you are wrong if you say that we did not care about what happened in iraq... we must not interfere other countries business except by going through proper channel UN that is and no action must be taken without the consent of the UN...
No, you are right, you don't have to be an Arab country to condemn USA for the aggression against Iraq; BUT surprisingly the statement release from the recently concluded Arab League "[b]DID NOT condemn USA for its aggression"
If the Arab League (or the Organisation of Arab Countries) did not condemn USA for the "aggression" against Iraq, but merely "REQUEST" the USA to stop its invasion of Iraq, why should Malaysia be more vocal then the Arabs care to be, in the defense of Saddam Hussein, or even on behalf of Iraq or her citizens ?
Where is the sense of Malaysian Government "Humanity" towards the ORDINARY Iraqi Citizens, whom Saddam Hussein's henchmen put to terror, torture, rape and murder, just so to preserve his hold on political power ?
What kind of humanity is this that allow Iraq to play games to hide its WMD, and put the world's security at risk ?
[/b] -
Do you want to know the thought that is going around?
Not Arab... but stooge to the Arabs.
Same thing the (there's not getting away from this.. it isn't religious but it says a lot when religion is mixed up in politics) Muslim world calls UK, Australia and whoever follows the US, US Stooges.
Whenever the Arabs say something, the Muslim world seems to support it, right or wrong.
Well, 1 way of stopping this is to become MORE SENSITIVE to others while avoiding accusing others of being insensitive to Malaysia. Heck! Seems that Malaysia can say whatever they want about everyone in the world, but no one can say anything about Malaysia except to lick their boots? People are silent when they see Malaysia accuse others of insensitivity not because they agree, but because they are not kurang ajar... they think of Malaysian politicos as hypocrites but will not say so.
sheesh...
If they can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.Originally posted by kyas:why can't we be more vocal than the arabs? just because that we are not arabs? i would like to repeat this is not a racial issue... and you are wrong if you say that we did not care about what happened in iraq... we must not interfere other countries business except by going through proper channel UN that is and no action must be taken without the consent of the UN... -
Tell that to PM Mahatir - if it is not about race, each time USA appears on the screen, one can see that Mahatir never can sit tight on his seat : it always ends up with "USA attacking the Muslims".Originally posted by kyas:why can't we be more vocal than the arabs? just because that we are not arabs? i would like to repeat this is not a racial issue... and you are wrong if you say that we did not care about what happened in iraq... we must not interfere other countries business except by going through proper channel UN that is and no action must be taken without the consent of the UN...
I am surprised that on his return from the O.I.C conference in Doha, he has been less vocal in this line of talk.
Did he get a dressing down by the "real Muslims" at that conference ?
"We must not interfere other countries business except by going through proper channel UN that is and no action must be taken without the consent of the UN..."
Unfortunately, this is not always the practise of the Malaysian Government - as can be seen in its continued interference in Singapore's internal affairs (concerning the hijab, the Singapore Muslim social, cultural and political development, Islamic Education and other Singapore domestic matters).
Even Singapore's current Foreign Policy has to be interfered with by the Malaysian PM - who for once, has not got the approval from his Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar, who believe that it is within Singapore's Sovereign Right to pursue our own stand on Iraq (amazing that he could have thought so straight for once).
Why has the Malaysian PM not raised the issue at the UN, or even the Dewan Rakyat, concerning Saddam Hussein's cruelty towards the Iraqi Citizens, when there is so much publicity about the terror, torture, rape and murder of the Iraqi Opposition ?
Why has the Malaysian PM not raised their concern that Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen is forcing the Iraqi citizens to act as Human Shield in their attack towards the US forces ?
Why is there no protests in the Muslim World in the methods used by Saddam Hussein to allow his military assets to take cover behind Iraqi civilian properties ?
If Saddam Hussein think himself as befitting the title of an Arab HERO, he and his henchmen and his military should not be hiding behind his citizens. He should follow the example of the Jordanian King Hussein - who led his famed Jordanian Lions into battle against Israel during the 6-Day War.
The Jordanian King Hussein was at the front line with his soldiers, battling the Israelis, unlike Saddam Hussein who has not been seen in public since the opening shot by the US-UK coalition force.
Where is the apology from PM Mahatir to USA, when the evidence was finally produced - of Osama Bin Laden involvement in the 9-11 incident in NYC - AFTER the US forces drove the Talebans and the AL-QAEDA out of Afghanistan ?
If the UN becomes paralyse due to the fact that no one is prepared to take down a tyrant, who is taking advantage of the process afforded by the UN, should the World sit tight and be paralyze ?
Perhaps, the Arab World (and the Muslim Community) can tolerate such a situation, and may argue forever to TRY and obtain common consensus, and remain stuck in the quagmire of lofty principles.
This probably is the reason for the vast difference in the standards of development in the social, economic, and political spheres between the Arab-Muslim and the other Communities in this World.
Progressive countries such as USA, UK, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Singapore, HongKong, Taiwan, and other countries that aspire First World Standards, will never tolerate the unending deliberation with no actions.
Not when an impending threat exist. -
WARNING: Please do not scold MAHATHIR an IDIOT. THis is not NICE.
IT is an INSULT to IDIOTS. -
Today Tuesday March 27 2003
Dr M regrets S'pore backing US on war
SINGAPORE'S support for the US-led war on Iraq is reqretable, Malaysian Prime MInister Dr Mahathir Mohamad said yesterday, Malaysia's Berita Harioan reported.
"I think it is rather unfortunate because if you(Singapore) support war as a way to solve problems between countries, then you shlould also expect war to be waged against your country." said Dr Mahathir in Malay at a news conference.
But Malaysian Foreign Minister Syed Hamid albar said that as a soverign nations, Singapore and Philippines - the only two countries in the Association of the Southeast asian Nations that support the US-led war on Iraq - had a right to take their stand on global issues, the New Straits Times reported yestereday.
shocked to c this..WAD THE HECK DR M SAY THIS!!! A provoke?
"I think it is rather unfortunate because if you(Singapore) support war as a way to solve problems between countries, then you shlould also expect war to be waged against your country." -
I am also shocked to see this .. but my question is who put the (Singapore) there? Is it our ST or is it Utusan?
Can Dr M be talking about America instead?
Can you also post the link? The article look suspicious .. look at the date .. -
Here is the full article .. can anyone translate? I think the important parts are in bold.
Dr Mahathir kesal Singapura sokong perang terhadap Iraq
Oleh Kadir Dikoh
KUALA LUMPUR: Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad kesal dengan tindakan negara jiran, Singapura, yang berpendirian menyokong peperangan diketuai Amerika Syarikat terhadap Iraq.
“Saya berpendapat ia agak malang sekali kerana jika anda (Singapura) menyokong perang sebagai jalan penyelesaian kepada masalah antara negara, maka anda juga harus menjangka perang terhadap negara anda sendiri,” kata Perdana Menteri.
Beliau berkata demikian pada sidang media selepas membentangkan usul membantah tindakan ketenteraan secara unilateral oleh Amerika Syarikat dan sekutunya ke atas Iraq di lobi Parlimen, semalam.
Dr Mahathir diminta mengulas mengenai tindakan Singapura yang turut menyediakan kemudahan kepada pasukan tentera Amerika Syarikat bagi kempen serangan terhadap Iraq dan kini meningkatkan kawalan keselamatan bagi menghalang kemungkinan serangan pengganas.
Sebelum ini, Menteri Pertahanan Singapura, Tony Tan, dipetik sebagai berkata bahawa risiko republik itu diserang pengganas semakin meningkat berikutan pencerobohan ke atas Iraq oleh Amerika Syarikat kerana Singapura menyokong tindakan itu.
Perdana Menteri ketika ditanya sama ada kerajaan membenarkan rakyat mengadakan bantahan umum beramai-ramai sebagai bantahan terhadap perang, berkata apa yang membimbangkan ialah kadang-kadang demonstrasi seperti itu tidak dapat dikawal.
“Mungkin dalam perasaan marah, geram, tindakan yang tidak sepatutnya diambil, akan diambil,” katanya.
Perdana Menteri juga berkata, belum tiba masanya bagi rakyat Malaysia menimbangkan kemungkinan memulaukan barangan keluaran Amerika Syarikat dan Britain seperti saranan sesetengah pihak bagi menandakan bantahan.
Malaysia juga, katanya, tidak akan mengkaji semula hubungan diplomatik dengan Washington meskipun ada pihak mendesak supaya berbuat demikian.
“Ini kerana kita percaya bahawa tindakan diambil kerajaan Amerika itu tidak menggambarkan pemikiran kebanyakan rakyat Amerika,” katanya.
Mengenai kemungkinan kecaman kuatnya terhadap Amerika Syarikat memberi kesan jangka panjang kepada Malaysia, Dr Mahathir berkata: “Ia boleh berlaku tetapi jika kita menutup (mulut) sepenuhnya, maka kita tidak jujur kepada diri sendiri.”
Beliau berkata, Amerika Syarikat adalah negara yang paling berkuasa sehingga menakutkan banyak negara kerana ia berupaya untuk melakukan apa saja termasuk sekatan ekonomi, selain menyerang.
“Saya masih ingat ketika membuat satu kenyataan yang tidak disukai Amerika, mereka mula memberitahu orang Amerika supaya jangan melabur di Malaysia. Jadi kita terdedah, kita negara lemah.
“Kita tidak boleh melawan dalam perang, malah kita tidak berupaya untuk mempertahankan diri. Ini termasuk serangan ekonomi terhadap kita. Jadi sudah semestinya kita takut, ia boleh berlaku,” katanya.
Ditanya oleh seorang wartawan BBC mengenai mesej yang mampu dilakukannya untuk menghentikan perang di Iraq memandangkan beliau sebagai pemimpin berpengalaman dan suaranya dilihat mewakili negara Islam, Dr Mahathir berkata, beliau akan cuba menulis surat kepada ‘kawan-kawan’ di Amerika dan Britain.
Selain itu, badan bukan kerajaan (NGO) tempatan juga boleh menghubungi rakan sejawat mereka di negara terbabit untuk menyampaikan pandangan yang sama bagi membantah perang.
“Kita mengesyaki media di Amerika terutamanya tidak memberi gambaran sebenar mengenai pendapat dunia. Contohnya, apabila ada demonstrasi di seluruh dunia termasuk satu yang disertai sejuta orang di London, gambaran diberi kepada orang Amerika adalah demonstrasi di Baghdad.
“Sudah tentu ia tidak akan membantu tetapi kita akan cuba mempengaruhi pendapat umum di Amerika dan Britain supaya mereka berupaya untuk mempengaruhi kerajaan masing-masing,” katanya sambil menambah, Malaysia tidak melihat dari sudut faedah yang diperolehnya apabila membantah serangan ke atas Baghdad. -
This is an amateur's attempt to translate the article which Kenhor had taken from the Berita Harian, of the speech made by Malaysian PM Mahatir.
The text and paragraph construction follows a literal translation of the Malay language, and no attempt has been made to perfect the sentence - {except for only one paragraph which completely made no sense in the original translation).
Dr Mahathir kesal Singapura sokong perang terhadap Iraq
Oleh Kadir Dikoh
Dr Mahathir sorry Singapore supports war towards Iraq
by Kadir Dikoh
Datuk Seri Dr Mahatir Mohamad is sorry with neighboring countryÂ’s action, Singapore, which has supported the war headed by United States towards Iraq.
“I think that it is quite unlucky as if you are (Singapore) supporting war as settlement road to problem between country, then you must also expect war towards your own country” Prime Minister said.
He said this at a press conference after laying out suggestion opposing military's action by unilateral by United States, and his proposals to suport Iraq was yesterday offered to Parliament
Dr Mahathir request comments now on issues raised on the control of safety to hinder terrorist's possibility of attack as they are now preparing their facilities defense, following action of Singapore action to support attack towards Iraq in the company of American Forces team.
Before this, Minister Of Defence Of Singapore, Tony Tan, is quoted as saying that the republic risk of being attacked by the terrorist increasingly rises after violation by United States onto Iraq because Singapore supports the action
Prime Minister when questioned whether the government allows the people to hold the protest that is general en masse as protest towards war, said what worries is sometimes that such demonstration cannot be controlled.
“Perhaps in feeling angry, exasperated, action that should not be taken, will be taken.” He said.
Prime Minister also said, to have not time has come for Malaysians consider possibility of boycotting the product goods of United States and Britain such as suggestion some the group to mark the protest.
Malaysia also, he said, will not reexamine diplomatic relation with Washington even though there is the group urge to do such.
“This is because we believe that the government of America is taken to action not to portray thought of the many Americans,” quoted.
Mahathir said: “It can occur but if we close (the mouth) completely, then we are not honest to himself.”
He, said that United States is a country which most controls because it makes serious effort to do whatever including economic cut until frighten many countries, besides attacking others.
I am remembering when making a, statement that they begin to inform American so as not to investing in Malaysia that is disliked by America. To become we the most exposed, we are weak countries.
“We cannot fight in war, in fact we don't make serious effort to defend itself. This including economic attack towards us. Therefore must we afraid, it can occur,” He said.
Questioned by a journalist of BBC and its voice seen concerning message that can be done by to stop war as worldly leader in Iraq considering him representing islamic state, Dr Mahathir , said that he will try to write the letter to “friends” In America and Britain.
Besides that, the body is not the government (NGO) local also can contact their colleague in the country the most involved to deliver the same view to oppose war.
We suspect media not to give the true picture concerning world opinion in America especially. For example, when there being demonstration worldwide including that is joined by a million person in London, the picture is given to American to is demonstration in Baghdad.
“It surely will not assist but we will try to influence the general opinion in America and Britain so that they make serious effort to influence each person ' s government,” He said when, adding that Malaysia doesn't see with respect to benefit that is obtained by when opposing attack onto Baghdad -
That means that the following statement
“I think that it is quite unlucky as if you are (Singapore) supporting war as settlement road to problem between country, then you must also expect war towards your own country” Prime Minister said.
is a response to what was said by OUR defence minister
Before this, Minister Of Defence Of Singapore, Tony Tan, is quoted as saying that the republic risk of being attacked by the terrorist increasingly rises after violation by United States onto Iraq because Singapore supports the action
. so its a simple clause and effect statement, I don't see how it's provocative or an implied threat by Dr M. Taken out of context, those statements look provocative, but within context, they look normal (typical Dr M busybody) -
To Atobe
You said
Why should Malaysia - a NON-Arab Country - take it on themselves to CONDEMN the US for their work to disarm Iraq ?
Malaysia is not condeming the USA for disarming Iraq. They are condeming the War against IRAQ. Malaysia is going to be the chair for the OIC and is the current chair for NAM. They have every right to make noise. What kind of leadership is present if they don't make noise?
The current chair of Arab League is Qatar .. and that is deep in the pockets of USA.
When the commenwealth wanted to expel or suspend Zimbabwe, the motion was sponsored by Australia and England. But Malaysia and South Africa rejected the motion. So there is a history of Malaysia doing what it thinks is best.
Malaysia was also condemned by the EU for trying to bring in Myanmar into ASEAN (or ARF) and they still tried their best to do so. (Singapore stood by and did little)
So do not condemn what Dr M or the Malaysians are doing. They are not Singapore. They can do whatever they want. If it is wrong, they will suffer the consequences. -
To kenhor,
Thanks for your clarification on MalaysiaÂ’s statement of in condemning US for their aggression towards IRAQ.
Although Kya had previously explained that Malaysia was not condemning USA for DISARMING Iraq, but only for the US led AGGRESSION towards Iraq, I find it quite amusing that it is tolerable to see Iraq NOT disarming itself of WMD – despite numerous UN orders - but when FORCE is used to disarm, it is seen as an AGGRESSION.
My point in questioning “Why should Malaysian – a NON-Arab Country – take it on themselves to CONDEMN the US for their work to disarm Iraq?” - was that it has been part of PM Mahatirs’ knee jerk reactions towards USA’s foreign policies (AND also the First World of the Caucasion).
This is a common feature even in his attitude towards Australia and UK – which basically reflects his attitude of Us, Third World against Them - the Caucasian First World.
Perhaps in his retirement plans, he intends to remain active in Politics, but on a bigger World Stage.
As was mentioned in my earlier posts, it remains intriguing that not only Qatar (as you claimed is a fan of USA), but Egypt, Saudi Arabia and even Jordan were able to persuade the other general members of the O.I.C in NOT issuing a statement that CONDEMN the aggression by USA towards Iraq.
The Statement only requested (or demanded impotently) that the aggression towards Iraq be STOPPED – (no CONDEMNATION).
With regards to Zimbawe expulsion from the Commonwealth, it is only standard foreign policy of Malaysia in US against THEM.
If one claims to be so sensitive towards Human Rights violations, and the sanctity towards Human Lives, then that belief should be practiced first in Malaysia, by not locking up his Deputy PM Anwar on trumped up charges approved by a Kangaroo Court with a Judge that is kept under PM MahatirÂ’s thumbs.
If Malaysia claims the leadership position of the Third World, what has PM Mahatir done to alleviate the problems faced by the Third World that are caused by corrupt despots and tyrants that rule by terror, torture, rape and murder ?
As a declared Muslim, should PM Mahatir turned a blind eye towards such atrocities towards the helpless citizens in Zimbawe and Iraq – and some other Third World Countries (with almost an embarrassing third of them being Islamic governed). -
Dear Atobe, You said,
As was mentioned in my earlier posts, it remains intriguing that not only Qatar (as you claimed is a fan of USA), but Egypt, Saudi Arabia and even Jordan were able to persuade the other general members of the O.I.C in NOT issuing a statement that CONDEMN the aggression by USA towards Iraq.
Those members that you mention are definately those I expect that will support the USA .. Egypt is in deep recession, and the billions gained in supporting USA is welcome. Saudi is being sued in USa for its citizen's doing the 9-11 acts. Jordan is bordering Isreal. In terms of population, those 4 countries have economic, population, spiritual and economic clout to bamboozle the whole IOC and Arab League. The USA is smart to know who to pressure.
You said,
With regards to Zimbawe expulsion from the Commonwealth, it is only standard foreign policy of Malaysia in US against THEM.
The US in your statement above includes South Africa. The country that is bordering Zimbabwe and most to gain/lose in any action against them. If they decide to support Robert Mugabe, I think their opinion counts the most. I truly am appaled at what is happening in the murder and intimidation of the opposition in that country. However, expulsion of Zimbabwe from the Commenwealth does more harm than good.
Remember Myanmar. ASEAN has a policy of constructive engagement. Kicking them out is not the answer. Same as with Zimbabwe.
If one claims to be so sensitive towards Human Rights violations, and the sanctity towards Human Lives, then that belief should be practiced first in Malaysia, by not locking up his Deputy PM Anwar on trumped up charges approved by a Kangaroo Court with a Judge that is kept under PM MahatirÂ’s thumbs.
The same is in Singapore, with lawsuits applied to the opposition with the intent of bankrupting them. There was an instance where some PAS politician said that Dr M watches porno with his grandchildren. They resolved that issue with an appology. In this country, that politician who said that would have been bankrupt and his whole family destroyed.
If Malaysia claims the leadership position of the Third World, what has PM Mahatir done to alleviate the problems faced by the Third World that are caused by corrupt despots and tyrants that rule by terror, torture, rape and murder ?
Obviously you did not know what Malaysia has done. Read the Far East Economic Reveau and the Economist. You will find that.
a) Give palm oil credits to emerging markets. Of course this is peanuts to them, and also a smart way of making inroads to new markets, but those credits number into the 100s of Millions
b) Guess who is the number 2 investor in South Africa. No 1 is USA, no 2 is Malaysia.
c) Guess who lost 400 million in a failed telco bid in Ghana. Telekom Malaysia. Guess what the heck they are doing there? They are there because Dr M has send hundreds of business men all over africa on sales, investment and training trips.
d) Guess which Petroleum company is the largest investor in Sudan, South Africa and Iran.
e) Guess which companies are actually building houses in North Korea?
f) Guess which companies are building highways in Bangladesh, India and Pakistan? As well as housing projects there was well.
h) Guess which country is trying to be the islamic financial centre of the world?
i) Guess which country has FW from Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, India, Myanmar, Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Philippines and China. And yes, those FW number over 2 million. How many do we have?
j) Which country actually sent troops to Somalia and Bosnia?
For all their influence, yes, they can't stop the despots. However, we don't do ANYTHING either. At least they invest in those countries and give FDI there.
If you want to say that those actions prop up dictatorship and torture, my dear own country sells military equipment to Myanmar.
Their actions may not be enough for your taste, I agree, but they have done more for third world countries than we have. -
To kenhor,
Thanks for your carefully pieced effort in gathering the large treasures of Malaysian involvement “worldwide”.
To begin with, is USA truly suing Saudi Arabia for the 9-11 incident committed mostly by Saudi nationals ?
This will open the door to future accountability for Nations whose citizens commit major crimes outside of their borders.
Surely this is made in jest ?
Concerning Malaysia being associated with South Africa in opposing ZimbabweÂ’s expulsion from the Commonwealth, I would not put too much status in such an association.
Not when you have an idiot as a President of South Africa, who claim that AIDS is not a result of Virus infection, and opposed all medical treatment in this direction to help those South Africans afflicted by AIDS or HIV.
Too bad, two idiots together does not make their efforts look any better.
Fortunately, in the Myanmar situation, it was the political consensus of all members of ASEAN to retain MyanmarÂ’s involvement, and not simply Singapore GovernmentÂ’s position alone.
The manner in which political threats are handled, do not differ too much between Singapore and Malaysia, with both depending on the Internal Security Act to clamp any opposition.
While the Singapore Government will be ruthless in maintaining the reputation of its politicians, can it be simple political generosity in not pursuing the same path in Malaysia? Or is it due to prudence for Malaysian Politicians in not pursuing relentlessly on libel issues, once deference has been made. Perhaps in Malaysian Politics there maybe more skeletons to be exposed in any confrontation.
Trade credit cuts both ways, and may not necessarily be done for altruistic reasons – but for the sake of National and PERSONAL benefits.
In the Malaysian way of politics and business, it will be surprising if the normal exercise of PATRONAGE do not carry benefit to all concerned.
How else do poor "kampung boys", with no historical connections to wealth and fame, can succeed in one generation to have their sons owning and operating corporations that are involved in mega-million dollar enterprises ?
Challenging one to make guesses as to the obvious leading outcome concerning Malaysian involvement in all the multiple enterprises is not so challenging.
It would have been more challenging to figure out how many of those projects that draw on the mega-million funds generated from PETRONAS is being wasted on all those money losing projects that stretch from Ghana to North Korea; and with all those losses of state funds not subject to questions and being unaccounted.
This probably explain for the stakes involved in Malaysian Politics, in which every component party in Barisan Nasional will try their utmost to maintain equilibrium and the status quo.
Everyone gets a finger in the pie, and everyone gets to taste the "stickiness" on the fingers.
Certainly, in doing so much for the Third World, they have done more for themselves; but what have they done for Malaysia with so much more natural resources than Singapore ?
Should they not have a burgeoning and over bloated national reserves that exceed that of Singapore a hundred times over, considering the extent of the land and sea area that Malaysia cover, compared to this "little red dot" ? -
Originally posted by Atobe:
To begin with, is USA truly suing Saudi Arabia for the 9-11 incident committed mostly by Saudi nationals ?
Yes, USA citizens are suing the Saudi government and bin Laden family for the 9-11 saga. As the Saudi's have billions in wealth in USA, this can be seized by the USA legal system if the verdict is in favour of the plaintiffs.
Concerning Malaysia being associated with South Africa in opposing ZimbabweÂ’s expulsion from the Commonwealth, I would not put too much status in such an association.
You may not put much "status" in this association, but Malaysia is an active participant in the OIC, ASEAN, G-15, NAM etc. It chooses to be active and regards being a member useful. So let them be. After all, the condemnation of the USA was done in their Dewan Rakyat.
Not when you have an idiot as a President of South Africa, who claim that AIDS is not a result of Virus infection, and opposed all medical treatment in this direction to help those South Africans afflicted by AIDS or HIV.Too bad, two idiots together does not make their efforts look any better.
Well, I see that you are pretty petty in your arguments. Thabo Mbeki has outdated views on AIDS and you write off whatever other good he has done. Well, LKY did say that graduate couples produce better offspring. Deng did not stop the Tiananmen masscre of happening. Clinton had Monica. Ariel Sharon started the middle east mess by visiting the disputed temple site. So by your measurements, all politicians are idiots.
While the Singapore Government will be ruthless in maintaining the reputation of its politicians, can it be simple political generosity in not pursuing the same path in Malaysia? Or is it due to prudence for Malaysian Politicians in not pursuing relentlessly on libel issues, once deference has been made. Perhaps in Malaysian Politics there maybe more skeletons to be exposed in any confrontation.
Of course there are skeletons in Malaysia politics. The difference is that people there know of the secrets. Do you know that the alegations that Anwar was a homo came out before he became the DPM? Do you also know that the Chinese in Malaysia cheered his imprisonment as he was reputedly more anti-chinese than even Syed Hamid Alba?
Trade credit cuts both ways, and may not necessarily be done for altruistic reasons – but for the sake of National and PERSONAL benefits.
Of course there are other reasons. Singapore donated some airplanes to Indonesia out of the goodness of our hearts. (year right) .. But the fact is that the deed was done, and it will be remembered.
In the Malaysian way of politics and business, it will be surprising if the normal exercise of PATRONAGE do not carry benefit to all concerned.
The cronies are notoriously inefficient in managing their money, hence resourceful people can gain much from dealing with this datuk and what not. Crumbs often fall off the tables of this wealthy and grease the outstretched palms of the peons.
How else do poor "kampung boys", with no historical connections to wealth and fame, can succeed in one generation to have their sons owning and operating corporations that are involved in mega-million dollar enterprises ?
So you never heard of Li Kah Shing?
It would have been more challenging to figure out how many of those projects that draw on the mega-million funds generated from PETRONAS is being wasted on all those money losing projects that stretch from Ghana to North Korea; and with all those losses of state funds not subject to questions and being unaccounted.
Those funds may be lost, but we are no saints either in our investments, with the likes of DAO HENG (which billions went into the Hong Leong Family), Suzhou, Optus to name a few. Only good thing I see is that Malaysia and SIngapore do not compete with each other in investing overseas. We go to China, Australia, NZ, they go to ASEAN, India, Pakistan, Africa. Very good synergy.
This probably explain for the stakes involved in Malaysian Politics, in which every component party in Barisan Nasional will try their utmost to maintain equilibrium and the status quo. Everyone gets a finger in the pie, and everyone gets to taste the "stickiness" on the fingers.
And almost all political parties in the world do this. Probably with the exception of Iraq, North Korea and Singapore.
Certainly, in doing so much for the Third World, they have done more for themselves; but what have they done for Malaysia with so much more natural resources than Singapore ?
Malaysia has done better with its natural resources than countries like Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines.
Should they not have a burgeoning and over bloated national reserves that exceed that of Singapore a hundred times over, considering the extent of the land and sea area that Malaysia cover, compared to this "little red dot" ?
Only countries with no land and natural resources need to have over bloated national reserves, countries like Taiwan, HK and Singapore. The rest of the world will use the money to develop the country.
The measure of a country's economic growth is how much more can their economy grow over its population. -
Quote – originally posted by kenhor:
“Yes, USA citizens are suing the Saudi government and bin Laden family for the 9-11 saga. As the Saudi's have billions in wealth in USA, this can be seized by the USA legal system if the verdict is in favour of the plaintiffs.“
Thanks for the clarifications at least it is the US Citizens - affected by the 9-11 incident, and not the USA as a Nation – suing the Saudi’s.
This is an insignificant event, and is part of life in the USA, where one will litigate for the slightest of reasons.
“Concerning Malaysia being associated with South Africa in opposing Zimbabwe’s expulsion from the Commonwealth, I would not put too much status in such an association.”
Good for Malaysia in being involve in all the Third World Organizations, so that they can assert their level of superiority and lord over those who are slightly or far behind them.
Measure oneself with the Best of the Best, and help those who cannot measure up to oneself or measure oneself with the worst, and assume leadership of the backward, and holler against the Best.
When you cannot compete with the Best, and unable to gain acceptance by the “Best” - for the skewered “pariah” views of the World, you will then wallow with those who empathize with your position.
“Well, I see that you are pretty petty in your arguments. Thabo Mbeki has outdated views on AIDS and you write off whatever other good he has done. Well, LKY did say that graduate couples produce better offspring. Deng did not stop the Tiananmen masscre of happening. Clinton had Monica. Ariel Sharon started the middle east mess by visiting the disputed temple site. So by your measurements, all politicians are idiots”
Is this not the common views that Politicians are idiots – to put it mildly?
Others would judge them in a worst light, by calling them snakes.
You are too generous to put Thabo Mbeki alongside great luminaries such as LKY, Deng, and Clinton(?).
“Of course there are skeletons in Malaysia politics. The difference is that people there know of the secrets. Do you know that the alegations that Anwar was a homo came out before he became the DPM? Do you also know that the Chinese in Malaysia cheered his imprisonment as he was reputedly more anti-chinese than even Syed Hamid Alba?”
There is a difference between truth, half-truths, and lies.
In politics, viciousness knows no bounds; one’s private preferences in life should be one’s private business – that even applies to Clinton.
The Malaysian Chinese cheering of AnwarÂ’s downfall was largely due to his policies and views taken as a Finance Minister, who listened too much to IMF and Foreign Financial Advisors, and implemented policies to combat the Financial Crisis in 1997, without being too circumspect to the effects that those policies will cause to the Malaysian Economy.
With Anwar's ambition to be the next Malaysian PM, it will be suicidal for his ambitious plans if he had continued with his "anti-Chinese" attitude which he espoused during his early day in politics as a youth.
“Of course there are other reasons. Singapore donated some airplanes to Indonesia out of the goodness of our hearts. (year right) .. But the fact is that the deed was done, and it will be remembered.”
You miss my point in my “Trade credit cuts both ways, and may not necessarily be done for altruistic reasons – but for the sake of National and PERSONAL benefits”.
The emphasis was on “PERSONAL” benefits.
“The cronies are notoriously inefficient in managing their money, hence resourceful people can gain much from dealing with this datuk and what not. Crumbs often fall off the tables of this wealthy and grease the outstretched palms of the peons”
If by “peons”, you mean those high sounding “titled” personalities, it would be far more accurate a description in the Malaysian “Patronage” system.
“So you never heard of Li Kah Shing?”
At least, Li Kah Shing started off by being entrepreneurial, borrowing his start-up capital, and through his own ingenuity, foresight, and industry, he is where he is today.
Did he have a Prime Minister for a father, to help him get a head start in having his own multi-million dollar PRIVATE corporations formed for him ?
“Those funds may be lost, but we are no saints either in our investments, with the likes of DAO HENG (which billions went into the Hong Leong Family), Suzhou, Optus to name a few. Only good thing I see is that Malaysia and SIngapore do not compete with each other in investing overseas. We go to China, Australia, NZ, they go to ASEAN, India, Pakistan, Africa. Very good synergy.”
It is unfortunate that on both sides, the funds from both countries have been wasted in some over ambitious overseas investments – but for each country, the political objective behind such investments are quite different.
SingaporeÂ’s funds utilized in overseas investment is largely with the CountryÂ’s national reserves, managed by the G.I.C or companies formed to manage such investments.
In MalaysiaÂ’s case, much of the funds are from Oil Revenue, and the large amount of cash that is generated internally, by inflated contracts awarded to companies operated by cronies, that represent the interests of some in the leadership.
“And almost all political parties in the world do this. Probably with the exception of Iraq, North Korea and Singapore.”
Would this not tell you that those dubious Malaysian investments in the list of Third World Countries – that stretch from the poorest in Africa to North Korea – should have raised eyebrows more, and that those investments are not actually altruistic in nature?
“Only countries with no land and natural resources need to have over bloated national reserves, countries like Taiwan, HK and Singapore. The rest of the world will use the money to develop the country
The measure of a country's economic growth is how much more can their economy grow over its population. .”
Countries without natural resources will have to depend on human resourcefulness, and in the course of it, large reserves are formed.
Countries such as Australia, Brunei, and the other oil-rich Arab states, with abundant natural resources, have relatively healthy reserves.
While the other well endowed countries such as Nigeria, Ghana, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia, some South American states, and Russia have abundant natural resources and DO NOT have any large reserves largely due to mismanagement, corruption, and failed economic, social and political policies.