Chinese In Singapore.
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I'm opening this thread due to the disgraceful attitude i see in Chinese nowadays.
Singaporean Chinese nowadays have no feelings for the Chinese Culture, the Chinese Language. I have never have seen a race which have detioriated into such extent. The Chinese in Singapore has forgotten the roots. Some can't even write their Chinese names. Why? They say that Chinese ain't important and that English is more important. The importance is not so importance. What erks me is that they are actually forgetting themselves, the blood that flows in them, the culture they have been brought up in..
I wish to cancel all doubts by distancing my article on Chinese as a Singaporean Chinese race and not some stuff propagating China Chinese. Even though i do treat all Chinese equally as the Malays treat one another, i do not feel so much for the China Chinese as for the Singaporean Chinese.
SG Chinese has dropped so far back that they are looking down on their race rather than looking up to it. Such is the mentality of "Jap and Korean" that many Singaporean Chinese would rather be a Jap or a Korean than a Chinese. I find that it is a downright shame. Imagine looking up to a race that invaded our ancestor's homeland and killed without blinking a eyelid. I do not understand what is so great about the japanese that wil make Chinese feel that Japanese is more cool and hence wants to "disown" Chinese. Some even rather have Japanese names den Chinese names. Some are even afraid to say their Chinese names, caus they feel it will make them look uncool.
I find that the Singapore Government has been a failure. In this aspect. In their strive for a multi-racial country they have been neglecting the Chinese race, leading it into total disarray. Their bloody lack of confidence makes them polticise every attempt to invoke a sense of pride in Singaporean Chinese. They fear of the backlash if SIngaporean Chinese turns communist. Big Joke. They are so insecure. So what has happened since? SIngaporean Chinese have lost their roots. Compare it with races like the Malay one. I am proud of them, why? They closely knitted society and they are proud to be a Malay. When Iraq was attacked, their arab brothers all around the war rose up to speak against it. What do we call people from China? Cheena. When someones say that they do not have an english name? You are a cheena-kia.
Such is the mindset of today's chinese that i feel disgusted. The PAP government has groomed a Chinese race that ain't so chinese. I hate it when people confuse Chinese with Singapore. Being a proud Chinese doesn't mean i support China. Being a proud Chinese does not mean you are not a good Singaporean.I feel that we should widen this cultural gap between the Chinese in SIngapore. Or else in the near future, we should not even learn chinese and call ourself a Chinese. -
right......
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oei, i got A1 for chinese at o levels leh, and english A2 leh so my chinese better.
which part of chinese culture are u toking about? If u are toking that chinese are ashamed of being chinese, then i would abhor such behavior. Should be proud of who u are.
But then, some chinese cultures shld be abolished lah, onli increases the hypocripsy of it all. Especially buring of incense papers after the person is dead, i say why treat them so nicely afther they die, if the person living u treat them well enuff liao, after die liao, funeral buy big paper house, buy car...i ask them why? they say must do lah or else pple will say. See? Hypocripsy.
anyway, i onli say it here, cos i once told my parents that and it resulted in a big quarrel hahaha.
anyway just be proud of who u are. -
Cannot write chinese name? Alamak..
Nowadays people don;t speak dialect is bad enough, now also don't want to speak mandarin. Finished already lah like that... -
funny... i've never felt that way about any race...
don't really look up or down to any other race.
but i do know i'm chinese and i know how to write my chinese name, hahah!
frankly i don't see what is there to look up to.
most important is the person inside, and how u choose to live your life. -
what needs to be defined here is race.....
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forget "race" lah... i hate that term... too loaded... ethnicity... its a much more apt term.
here's a more messy question... what is a chinese?
especially when u bring the question of the overseas chinese... the huaqiao and huayi...
is language a requisite to chinese-ness? or is it adherence to customs and cultures? or is it adherence to a set of beliefs and mindset? does the absence of either one make us any less "chinese"???
hey, there are tons of overseas chinese all over the world who can't speak mandarin, don't subscribe to confucianism and almost certainly, don't practice buddhism (which originated from india anyway ) or taosim but will strongly assert that they are CHINESE if asked the question...
of course i don't agree with those posers who wanna act jap or korean or ang moh lah...
but its important to draw the distinction between one who is ashamed of his heritage vs one who is proud of it, but know very little about it due to the passage of time and weakening links with their heritage.
no need to go on a rampage and steamroll all yellow skinned people who can't speak mandarin... thats just cultural chauvinism for u... most indonesian chinese can't speak mandarin... doesn't make them any less chinese if u ask me to some of them, their wealth is testimony of their chinese blood.
and what about thai chinese? try asking thaksin sinawatra... no big secret that he's ethnic chinese too... don't think he speaks the language though...
oh by the way, i can write my name and speak it properly... can't write it that well though -
oh... and if anyone asks me, i'll say i'm singaporean i have more in common with my fellow singaporeans, be they malay, indian, eurasian OR chinese than with some mainland chink...
some of them really give chinese a bad name... the chinese economic dragon may be rising, but they got lots to learn as far as civilised behavior is concerned... they're more vulgar than the worst american bourgeois capitalist... nouveau riche scums throwing their money around and arsewipe young punks with an unwarranted superiority complex...
again, not all are like that lah... but i've met enough to REALLY turn me off... and mind u... some of them don't even think that we're chinese they think we're "lao wai" ... foreigners.... not even the courtesy of huaqiao... -
I totally agree with what you said. We Singaporean Chinese are defintely losing our roots and culture. We are too westernised, throwing away our 1000 years culture and customs.Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:I'm opening this thread due to the disgraceful attitude i see in Chinese nowadays.
Singaporean Chinese nowadays have no feelings for the Chinese Culture, the Chinese Language. I have never have seen a race which have detioriated into such extent. The Chinese in Singapore has forgotten the roots. Some can't even write their Chinese names. Why? They say that Chinese ain't important and that English is more important. The importance is not so importance. What erks me is that they are actually forgetting themselves, the blood that flows in them, the culture they have been brought up in..
I wish to cancel all doubts by distancing my article on Chinese as a Singaporean Chinese race and not some stuff propagating China Chinese. Even though i do treat all Chinese equally as the Malays treat one another, i do not feel so much for the China Chinese as for the Singaporean Chinese.
SG Chinese has dropped so far back that they are looking down on their race rather than looking up to it. Such is the mentality of "Jap and Korean" that many Singaporean Chinese would rather be a Jap or a Korean than a Chinese. I find that it is a downright shame. Imagine looking up to a race that invaded our ancestor's homeland and killed without blinking a eyelid. I do not understand what is so great about the japanese that wil make Chinese feel that Japanese is more cool and hence wants to "disown" Chinese. Some even rather have Japanese names den Chinese names. Some are even afraid to say their Chinese names, caus they feel it will make them look uncool.
I find that the Singapore Government has been a failure. In this aspect. In their strive for a multi-racial country they have been neglecting the Chinese race, leading it into total disarray. Their bloody lack of confidence makes them polticise every attempt to invoke a sense of pride in Singaporean Chinese. They fear of the backlash if SIngaporean Chinese turns communist. Big Joke. They are so insecure. So what has happened since? SIngaporean Chinese have lost their roots. Compare it with races like the Malay one. I am proud of them, why? They closely knitted society and they are proud to be a Malay. When Iraq was attacked, their arab brothers all around the war rose up to speak against it. What do we call people from China? Cheena. When someones say that they do not have an english name? You are a cheena-kia.
Such is the mindset of today's chinese that i feel disgusted. The PAP government has groomed a Chinese race that ain't so chinese. I hate it when people confuse Chinese with Singapore. Being a proud Chinese doesn't mean i support China. Being a proud Chinese does not mean you are not a good Singaporean.I feel that we should widen this cultural gap between the Chinese in SIngapore. Or else in the near future, we should not even learn chinese and call ourself a Chinese.
I have an Indonesian friend here who is willing to support the Americans rather than the Chinese in any conflict. When i told him that it would be a disgrace to all Chinese including him, he just replied that he would become a Japanese. -
i don't really think we're abolishing our roots. like CX said, we were just unconsciously distancing ourselves from it.
i'm sure most singaporean chinese and speak chinese without a problem, they can read chinese, just not fluidly as we do english. it's the writing of chinese that most have a problem with.
can't really blame them, when you step out of secondary education, you have almost no contact with the language other than speaking it. but i also know of several other people that have problems with literature in particular. they can't write chinese, but they can't speak english either. (
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judging from the number of people who abhor local english shows, it should be prove enough that we disprove of our own people speaking like westerners, as do we disprove of our own people attempting to speak like anything other than singaporean.
maybe it really is time to abolish the race factor in singapore and just replace our ethnicity with singaporean. hopefully, in time to come, the ones in charge may even give in and agree that singlish is our national language. -
i think culture should not be stick to too stubornly... culture can and are going to change ... please dun think that the human culture has stop its revolution. WE have only being this condition for about 100 years.. that is rather a very very small period of time. Chinese culture itself has evolve for thousands of year... words has being changed, new customs added and many other changes.
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when we see the crap that comes from Mainland China, one could not blame people from trying to distance themselves away from them as much as possible.
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u know one thing i hate about chinese? (or maybe other races also). Is that they always side with own race rather than reason. I cannot stand this. Everytime is CHINESE is right. WHen China argues with USA, CHina is right. WHen CHina argues with Taiwan, China is right. When China says people bully them, China is right. When we mention that there is still corruption in CHina, CHina is still right. KAOZ.
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After reading these few posts, i found out that there are many "traitor" chinese as there are Singaporean Chinese. But after looking at posts by AzRaeL and CX, i can't help but notice why Chinese are always dragged to the topic on how China Chinese behaves and that their attitude erks Singaporean Chinese. I feel that Singaporean Chinese are definately different from China Chinese. Hence the way they behaves should'nt have a negative impact on us. The saying that Thai, Indonesian Chinese can't speak Chinese well but are proud of Chinese is quite true, though wad is said of them can't be applied to us. They do not have the freedom and liberty to study Chinese in their homeland. Why? In indonesia, there is Behasa Malay. In Thai, they have Thai Language. But in Singapore, there is no form of a national language, hence the language we take is our Race's Language, which is Chinese. Hence our case is much different from them.
What i do like to know is the public stand on the PAP's approach to the Chinese race. Most of the cabinet are Chinese, but many of them can't even speak Chinese as fluently as a Sec4 O Level student. They do not agree with Chinese in Singapore being too closely related to China in the past, as they were scared we would be "brain-washed" into a communist puppet. Now, even with the Chinese-Dragon rising, Singapore's Government ain't really taking the chance to revive the "Speak Mandarin" campaign for us chinese, and instead embark on an idiotic speak PROPER english campaign. I'm not against the use of Singlish. In fact i'm from it. The fact that the PAP is trying so hard to stamp out Singlish is just the way they want to make Singaporean's culture zero. Singlish has been a part of our language since the many races mingled together. But have since been put down by the PAP government. This method of stamping our culture out is based on insecurity of our PAP government. New blood should go in i feel, the old guards are losing their touch, so afraid of losing the majority of votes they have managed to win since 1965.
Japanese: This is really ashamed. What is so good about the Japanese i ask? Talking bout Economics, they are being overthrown by the Chinese. Talking bout Polictics, they are in a mess as in a spagetthi. They have nothing worth for us to look up to. But why are we Chinese so ashamed of our race but adore the Jap. They had invaded China and killed many. It was our ancestor's homeland for goodness sake. yet many Chinese nowadays no longer remember that fact.
I am very much disappointed with the current government and the view on the Japanese issue. I really hope one day, SIngaporean Chinese will be come a race which is proud of their Country and their Race. -
define being proud?
i am definitely proud of being a chinese. cos i speak mandarin at home, and i speak mandarin to some of my frens.
but u say be proud of being a Singaporean Chinese?
Look here. WHat roots do we have as a chinese in Singapore? If we strictly say SIngapore alone, there is nothing wrong with what our youngsters are doing cos Singapore is onli 38 years old! There are no roots or whatsoever and the younger chinese are trying to define that. In your arguments, you say not to bring in China Chinese or whatever other chinese, but hey the 'ROOTS' u are mentioning seems to be ROOTS that our grandparents or great grand parents bring over and guess where most of our forefathers come from? China....so u wanna exclude other countries but yet condemn our youngsters who are trying to find an identity, so which is which u wan? -
Reminds mi of a certain family in Joo Kiat.
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Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:
now, i DID say that not all are like that... and its not a distinctly chinese problem as well... try asking a local indian what they think of the foreign workers...
After reading these few posts, i found out that there are many "traitor" chinese as there are Singaporean Chinese. But after looking at posts by AzRaeL and CX, i can't help but notice why Chinese are always dragged to the topic on how China Chinese behaves and that their attitude erks Singaporean Chinese.
and its not so much a matter of issue of dragging this issue into the discussion unecessarily... it was to illustrate another point: Sg chinese are confident enough of their identity to assert it and identify AGAINST what they see as uncivilised behavior.
china was civilised and prospering when europe was still crawling out of the middle ages. this shows that civilisation is NOT a western monopoly. so WHY do people persist in disregarding their heritage of civilisation and adopt barbarism instead? of course we abhore them! not because they're mainlanders, but because they're not behaving according to our standards of civility.I feel that Singaporean Chinese are definately different from China Chinese. Hence the way they behaves should'nt have a negative impact on us.
if we're different from them, then wats your complaint? of course we don't speak, think and act like them and of course we won't mindlessly support china in a war and of course we won't like them if we find their behavior offensive.
strictly speaking, we're not really chinese chinese... we're descendents of overseas chinese. that makes a world of a difference.
stop thinking of chinese as a monolithic culture........But in Singapore, there is no form of a national language, hence the language we take is our Race's Language, which is Chinese. Hence our case is much different from them.
who say? the language of administration is ENGLISH while the national language is MALAY. mother tongue is taught as a 2nd language. so whats the first language taught in school??? so whats the difference? u're not banned from learning the language, but u can't exactly embrace it to the same fervert extent. think: nantah... chinese educated unemployed graduates... so would u ask your kid to be mono-lingual in mandarin?What i do like to know is the public stand on the PAP's approach to the Chinese race. Most of the cabinet are Chinese, but many of them can't even speak Chinese as fluently as a Sec4 O Level student. They do not agree with Chinese in Singapore being too closely related to China in the past, as they were scared we would be "brain-washed" into a communist puppet. Now, even with the Chinese-Dragon rising, Singapore's Government ain't really taking the chance to revive the "Speak Mandarin" campaign for us chinese, and instead embark on an idiotic speak PROPER english campaign.
u make your stand too public, u get race riots all over again... 'nuff said. concern over political subvertion sponsored by communist china in the 60s was an extremely valid fear. the cultural revolution was in full swing, the moderates were being persecuted and the Red Guards would've loved to inflame revolutionary fervour in overseas chinese communities.
and why should we be so reactionary and suddenly switch to mandarin just to do business in china? bear in mind that the main economic engines in the world is not china... china is at least 50 years away from getting there. there are opportunities abound there... but it takes a really blind person to believe that investments there guarantees profits just cos of the hype... u think the PAP dunno this meh?I'm not against the use of Singlish. In fact i'm from it. The fact that the PAP is trying so hard to stamp out Singlish is just the way they want to make Singaporean's culture zero.
singlish is not culture... its just bad english.Singlish has been a part of our language since the many races mingled together. But have since been put down by the PAP government. This method of stamping our culture out is based on insecurity of our PAP government. New blood should go in i feel, the old guards are losing their touch, so afraid of losing the majority of votes they have managed to win since 1965.
and they did not "stamp" it out... they merely brought awareness to the issues raised and some of them ARE really real issues. we had a discussion on this topic last month i think... go find the thread.Japanese: This is really ashamed. What is so good about the Japanese i ask? Talking bout Economics, they are being overthrown by the Chinese. Talking bout Polictics, they are in a mess as in a spagetthi. They have nothing worth for us to look up to.
thats just cultural chauvinism talking... every culture has something to teach. we shouldn't be shallo and dismiss them outright based on superficial factors.
why wanna be jap? the answer is soft power. jap technology, jap products, jap films, jap music, jap pop personalities have succeeded in gaining mainstream appeal. there must be something they're doing right in order to achieve this. so how come china didn't spawn sony? and why is creative tech born here, of an overseas chinese instead of in china?But why are we Chinese so ashamed of our race but adore the Jap. They had invaded China and killed many. It was our ancestor's homeland for goodness sake. yet many Chinese nowadays no longer remember that fact.
nobody forgets nanking... i don't. but what were the circumstances surrounding japan when they went to war in 1937? the situation is very different today. its nuts to see them in the same way.I am very much disappointed with the current government and the view on the Japanese issue. I really hope one day, SIngaporean Chinese will be come a race which is proud of their Country and their Race.
hey... look around u... this is a rabid, pro-sg forum! (but if its china u meant with regards to "country" then u're obviously in the wrong place.)
as for their ethnicity, u're just looking at the worst examples. my point remains. u do not stop belonging or not deserve to belong to an ethnicity just because u do not speak the language well or disagree with commonly held values. ways change. -
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I really hope one day, SIngaporean Chinese will be come a race which is proud of their Country and their Race
My Country is SINGAPORE and my Race is SINGAPOREAN and i'm proud of it and from what i see most people here are proud of it while you on the other hand do not seem to be proud of that fact!!We are a young country and are still finding out Identity.You do not hear people in the US saying their American english....nor do you hear the Canadians saying their Canadian French....they say their Canadian WITH French decent....just like i say I'm Singaporean with Chinese decent but i aint chinese.......i'm SINGAPOREAN!singlish is not culture... its just bad english.
Sorry CX but it's not bad english.....it's Singaporean english the same way US english is different from UK english
but other then that i agree with everything else you said CX -
yup...
I totally agreed that singaporean chinese has lost their roots,
and even love for our own traditions, culture and life.
WHY throw away such beautiful culture and adapt incoming ones?
Whenever i travel to China, i felt so ashamed because though i got A1 for my chinese during o level (years back), the normal villagers seemed to be more cultured and knowledgable than myself...
2 weeks ago, i bypassed Aljunied MRT and saw an event there "8th Singapore Taoist Day". Those guys done a great job with a mobile exhibition titled "zhong hua- traditions, culture, life"....
I feel that such projects should be encouraged.
But whatever, we need our dear government support to re-promote sg chinese culture.....
We have our own culture....very unlike to the China's..... -
I actually disagree with most of the initial post. I do not feel any shame that I CAN NOT SPEAK GOOD MANDARIN. Speaking mandarin has NOTHING to do with Chinese culture. And I feel that our evolution of the Singapore Chinese away from mainland chinese is a good thing.
I went to china before (as well as taiwan and HK). One thing that I think they lack is good manners. From young, my parents have conditioned me to greet elders as uncle, auntie, call people when you come back from work, wish people good morning. When we sit down to eat, wait for the elders to start first and also to call them "papa mama, eat rice"
This is lacking in ALL the china chinese people I met in Singapore, Australia and China.
The second thing is the passing down of traditions. How many people still remember why sugarcane is revered on the "pai thian kong day". How about the "thong yeen"? And how about visiting the graves of the ancestors during cheng beng?
This quaint traditions are no longer in practice in China. Only the Malaysians and Singaporean chinese faithfully follow them. Hence we have evolved to our own form of Chinese and we need not to look to China as the defender of our culture. The Communist have destroyed more cultural icons and practices than the west.
I will consider Malaysian and Singaporean chinese unique in our shared common heritage and we need not worry about it being inferior to whatever is practiced in China. Diversity is what will strengthen our culture, not a simpleminded photostat of what they do over in Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou. -
Well, we may be borned in singapore.But we must always that the blood that runs through our veins are from those who worked so hard, and struggled so badly to come to this island country. Be it chinese, malay or indian , we must always remember our roots, the hardship that our ancestors brought with them, to build this nation of singapore.
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U all super lame lehz... why start this topic.... racism la!! for goodness sake... Chinese are chinese they wan to act like jap or who is up to the person... chinese culture... heck about it... Let the parents do the job! they are suppose to tell their kids about chinese culture. Well basically i know some basic knowledge about the chinese culture cos my parents been telling this and that and so does my late grandmother... they told me during what festive season can do this cannot do this, if believe juz follow. If dun believe, face the consquences urself... i agreed to that... well sometime believe sometime not.... i mean why bother to be bounded by chinese cultures... Young man and Young ladies should have their own cultures also!! Like some Hip-hop guys like to spray walls which singapore government called it vandalism but in the US, it is normal... go where also see all the words on the wall!! well i guess thats becos we are living in different places and we dun think alike.... well i am a Singaporean Teen and i can accept all this. well i dun see a reason why other singaporean are so conscience about all this... Take it easy and RElax!! For goodness sake... not knowing chinese culture cannot be Chinese mehz... if a chinese dunno chinese culture, are they classified as traitor? if you have this kind of thinking then maybe next time when u are grown up, go work for the government be in the MP and state it out that all chinese should know Chinese Culture... set it as one of the law! Till that law is up, then i will clap for u whenever you make a speech no matter lousy or good... But seriously speaking i dun see why should we give a damn about chinese dunno chinese Culture....
-Just my opinon- -
aiya, agree to disagree lah... no need to say solly one lah...Originally posted by |-|05|:Sorry CX but it's not bad english.....it's Singaporean english the same way US english is different from UK english
but other then that i agree with everything else you said CX
i still think its bad english. but as i said last time in another thread, it depends where its used lah... u use it in the market or with close friends but u always lose the lahs and funny inflections in a more formal enviornment...
every culture does that... u can't spew ghetto talk in a more formal enviornment where u don't just assert your individuality, but establish your credentials.
its like doing the ang moh a favour. they're not used to the way singlish is spoken... -
"Singlish is bad English" ?
To be more correct - "Singlish is badly Spoken Chinese, more then badly spoken English".
"Ney sek mm sek ?" - "Li eh hiao bey ?" - "ni hway mah ?"
"You know not ?"
"ngor mm hiew..." - "gwa bey hiao...." - "wo bu hway..."
"i no know..."
One of the main reason for suppressing the various Chinese culture - (that is unique to the different dialect groups) - was that the different interest groups of the clans representing each dialect has a strong sense of destructive self-anihilating competitive spirit.
By nature, the Chinese people is one of the most competitive people on this globe, who never shy away from any challenge.
The competitive spirit has been widely displayed within the clan groups, that tear at each other to represent the Clan itself. Some of the best known battle royale to take charge of Management Committee of some Clans, had spilled into the High Court for independent settlement.
This competitive "disease" has shown itself capable of spreading across clans, and imposed itself onto the National stage, affecting inter-racial interests
This has led to feelings of distrust in the integrity and abilities of the other races - (the beginning of petty racism).
Some Chinese - (who are fluent in the knowledge of all things Chinese) - will consider themselves as "true" Han descendants; and will belittle other Chinese as no better then "babarians" found in the peripherals of the ancient "Middle Kingdom".
This is happening even in this Twenty First Century - where we have some Singaporean Chinese Chauvinists, who are strongly emotional about the issue of Chinese Identity.
Another reason for suppressing Chinese Chauvinism in the early 1950's and through to the mid-1970's, was the suspicion and fear of the largely English educated PAP Government towards its Political Opponent in the largely Chinese educated Barisan Socialist Party led by the late Dr Lee Siew Choh.
This was critical in the competition for the "hearts and minds" of the Singapore Electorate in the 1960's through 1970's, when the majority of the Chinese population was still a first or second generation migrant settlers from Mainland China.
Chinese Chauvinism still has an ugly side to it, even in the Twenty First Century - as would all kinds of chauvinistic behaviors.
Although one should not forget one's roots - covering the areas of one's ethnicity, culture, social practices, history, and family origin - will these issues not open the window to allow some breeze to provide some fresh air.
Like the famous statement from Deng Siow Peng - "black cat or white cat, what does it matter, as long as the mice is caught".