Chinese In Singapore.
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oh man................ are u really really old? U sound like it. Im not a chinese, im a Singaporean. I may be Chinese in ethnicity, but i seriously cannot feel a connection between myself, and a bunch of people with terrible fashion sense, bad hairdos, atrocious manners, and no money?Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:I'm opening this thread due to the disgraceful attitude i see in Chinese nowadays.
Singaporean Chinese nowadays have no feelings for the Chinese Culture, the Chinese Language. I have never have seen a race which have detioriated into such extent. The Chinese in Singapore has forgotten the roots. Some can't even write their Chinese names. Why? They say that Chinese ain't important and that English is more important. The importance is not so importance. What erks me is that they are actually forgetting themselves, the blood that flows in them, the culture they have been brought up in..
I wish to cancel all doubts by distancing my article on Chinese as a Singaporean Chinese race and not some stuff propagating China Chinese. Even though i do treat all Chinese equally as the Malays treat one another, i do not feel so much for the China Chinese as for the Singaporean Chinese.
SG Chinese has dropped so far back that they are looking down on their race rather than looking up to it. Such is the mentality of "Jap and Korean" that many Singaporean Chinese would rather be a Jap or a Korean than a Chinese. I find that it is a downright shame. Imagine looking up to a race that invaded our ancestor's homeland and killed without blinking a eyelid. I do not understand what is so great about the japanese that wil make Chinese feel that Japanese is more cool and hence wants to "disown" Chinese. Some even rather have Japanese names den Chinese names. Some are even afraid to say their Chinese names, caus they feel it will make them look uncool.
I find that the Singapore Government has been a failure. In this aspect. In their strive for a multi-racial country they have been neglecting the Chinese race, leading it into total disarray. Their bloody lack of confidence makes them polticise every attempt to invoke a sense of pride in Singaporean Chinese. They fear of the backlash if SIngaporean Chinese turns communist. Big Joke. They are so insecure. So what has happened since? SIngaporean Chinese have lost their roots. Compare it with races like the Malay one. I am proud of them, why? They closely knitted society and they are proud to be a Malay. When Iraq was attacked, their arab brothers all around the war rose up to speak against it. What do we call people from China? Cheena. When someones say that they do not have an english name? You are a cheena-kia.
Such is the mindset of today's chinese that i feel disgusted. The PAP government has groomed a Chinese race that ain't so chinese. I hate it when people confuse Chinese with Singapore. Being a proud Chinese doesn't mean i support China. Being a proud Chinese does not mean you are not a good Singaporean.I feel that we should widen this cultural gap between the Chinese in SIngapore. Or else in the near future, we should not even learn chinese and call ourself a Chinese. -
dun stereotype those from china.Some of them are not what they seem to be.If you look at shanghai, many of them exceeds us both acedamically and socially.
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Em,you've got a problem with that...
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precisely...Stick in the mud...Originally posted by CenturionMBT:dun stereotype those from china.Some of them are not what they seem to be.If you look at shanghai, many of them exceeds us both acedamically and socially. -
so the problem here is that not enough shanghainese come here to study right? thats why we got screwed up impression of mainlanders...Originally posted by CenturionMBT:dun stereotype those from china.Some of them are not what they seem to be.If you look at shanghai, many of them exceeds us both acedamically and socially.
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CX, I agree with you completely. You made some valid points.Originally posted by CX:forget "race" lah... i hate that term... too loaded... ethnicity... its a much more apt term.
here's a more messy question... what is a chinese? especially when u bring the question of the overseas chinese... the huaqiao and huayi...
is language a requisite to chinese-ness? or is it adherence to customs and cultures? or is it adherence to a set of beliefs and mindset? does the absence of either one make us any less "chinese"???
hey, there are tons of overseas chinese all over the world who can't speak mandarin, don't subscribe to confucianism and almost certainly, don't practice buddhism (which originated from india anyway ) or taosim but will strongly assert that they are CHINESE if asked the question...
of course i don't agree with those posers who wanna act jap or korean or ang moh lah...
but its important to draw the distinction between one who is ashamed of his heritage vs one who is proud of it, but know very little about it due to the passage of time and weakening links with their heritage.
no need to go on a rampage and steamroll all yellow skinned people who can't speak mandarin... thats just cultural chauvinism for u... most indonesian chinese can't speak mandarin... doesn't make them any less chinese if u ask me to some of them, their wealth is testimony of their chinese blood.
and what about thai chinese? try asking thaksin sinawatra... no big secret that he's ethnic chinese too... don't think he speaks the language though...
oh by the way, i can write my name and speak it properly... can't write it that well though -
Abbrevations :
Oversea Chinese : (OC)
China Chinese : (CC)
Personally, I do not feel any connections with China or the main land chinese.....one reason could be that there is a wide gap in thinking, values and mores that we uphold.
To ask if the PAP govt had done enough to promote or preserve the chinese culture in our youth, I feel that they had done enough considering the circumstances here. Some people tend to forget that Singapore is a multi-racial state and there could not be too much emphasis on one race only.
I am proud to be of Chinese origins but I feel no affinity to China or China Chinese. Given any day, I would feel more comfotable spending my time in the kopi tiam with my Singaporean Malay and Indian friends over "kopi" and "prata" then to forcibly try to assimilate myself with China Chinese just because the social or economical trend demands it.
It will take time for OC and CC to understand each other culture. It is pointless to debate whoese culture is superior since we have evolved differently. -
I'm not old. I in my teens. I still do not understand why people here seems to drag the whole subject to the behavior of the China Chinese. We are Chinese. When i said proud to be a Chinese, it means proud of your roots, not proud of those mainlanders.
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And regarding those issues in which a person said that China people have bad hairdos, bad fashion sense, and no money. Haha, it seems that this guy either have no IQ or doesn't read the papers. Each culture is different. We may find people from China with wierd fashion sense, but in their country, that may not be the case. We are a nearly-westernised country, hence to judge them from the westernised views of ours is duely unfair. If that is so, ain't women in the Arab World has worse fashion sense, covering every part of their body? But it's part of the Arabic culture.
No money? I've a feeling the guy whom said this must not be rich, or do not have a wealthy family. Those in middle class and above families should now knoiw that China is growing, growing at a rate 7 2.5 times ours. Our GDP growth rate was 2-3%, China's was 7-9%. I
In this world like this where people belittle their own race.They may well be better off dead. As the famous Chinese saying goes "ying shui shi yuan" Never forget your roots. -
Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:
sigh... quite obvious that u're not putting things into their proper perspective...
And regarding those issues in which a person said that China people have bad hairdos, bad fashion sense, and no money. Haha, it seems that this guy either have no IQ or doesn't read the papers. Each culture is different. We may find people from China with wierd fashion sense, but in their country, that may not be the case. We are a nearly-westernised country, hence to judge them from the westernised views of ours is duely unfair. If that is so, ain't women in the Arab World has worse fashion sense, covering every part of their body? But it's part of the Arabic culture.
with regards to dress sense and fashion, it really depends which benchmark u're adhering to... if u're way up there and u attend cocktail receptions and stuff, a versace dress one season old is considered passé.
if u're down here with the mortals, its fine to just dress neat... doesn't have to be branded or expensive, but colours must blend lah...
if u're required or prefer to adhere to ethnic or religious traditions (like muslims who prefer to cover themselves up), obviously no one expects u to wear what j-lo wore to the grammies right!
thats the issue here... in today's world, ethnic costumes are considered formal dress. no one will make make noise if u wear a chinese men's gown or a cheongsam (which is incidentally influenced by ang moh designs actually...)
so what standards do your average chinaman have? of course, after spending some time here, some dress nicer than u and me lah... but they're generally clueless when they first get here... just as anyone would be in a new enviornment.No money? I've a feeling the guy whom said this must not be rich, or do not have a wealthy family. Those in middle class and above families should now knoiw that China is growing, growing at a rate 7 2.5 times ours. Our GDP growth rate was 2-3%, China's was 7-9%. I
don't be silly lah... if u break down the figures regionally, u'll find that most of the growth is happening in the south eastern coastal region. so how equitable is the growth anyway? duh... china very big u know... are u sure every single area is growing at the same rate and every chinese citizen's income is increasing at the same rate?In this world like this where people belittle their own race.They may well be better off dead. As the famous Chinese saying goes "ying shui shi yuan" Never forget your roots.
i keep asking u... do we sound like we're belittling our roots??? all i can think of is that u're hanging out with some really screwed up people man...
let me go out on a limb a bit... Overseas Chinese have actually made a conscious choice to reject chinese citizenship and adopt local citizenship. many have preserved their cultural practices and some have even maintained links with relatives in mainland china.
thats basically what being overseas chinese means... local citizenship, 1/2 a mind on chinese culture and the other 1/2 focused on the world where we belong. chinese culture is not china. -
jus wondering why this discussion is not in Chinese.....
hua ren, hua yu, hua wen -
No money? I've a feeling the guy whom said this must not be rich, or do not have a wealthy family. Those in middle class and above families should now knoiw that China is growing, growing at a rate 7 2.5 times ours. Our GDP growth rate was 2-3%, China's was 7-9%
heh dude....you do know there was a report in news week that questions China's growth index due to the fact that that country is courropt to hell.....i mean every year they report growth NATION wide.......even in counties in the interior.This is highly suspicious and most experts belive the growth rate is between 3% to negative 2.5% and their budget is confrimed to be in deficit and that was before they increase their defence budget but what? 10%?[/code] -
......You know what? People in Arab countries do have terrible fashion sense. And so what if I think people in China look ridiculous? Just because im Chinese, i have to think that Chinese people look good? So, is it right to say that just because you are indian, u have to eat roti prata, or just because you are malay, you have to listen to metallica and skateboard? I really don't see your point. From what I gather, you think we should'nt say that people from China are badly dressed just because they have a different culture? Come on... And please, don't be so naive. Just because their growth rate is higher than ours, doesnt mean they are richer. It just means that their economy is growing faster. That's because they're poor. Back in the 60s - 80s in Singapore, our growth rate was very high too. This was because before that, we were relatively poor. Currently, our GDP doesn't grow so much because our country is rich. And how exactly do you arrive at the conclusion that I'm poor? My father earns more in one month than some chinese dude probably earns in a year. Do you even know anything about economics? A country's GDP is not a measure of the average income of a person. Please get your facts right before you come n talk rubbish, because you just end up looking damn bloody stupid. I think you're the person with a low IQ. I'm not ashamed to be a Chinese. However, I do find mainlanders to be rude and obnoxious. Is that wrong? It's a free country. That's my opinion. Live with it. I think you're the more pathetic one. You're the overseas Chinese with an inferiority complex, who needs to link himself to a big country like China and blow the trumpet of Chinese culture just to make himself feel important. You may think you're a Chinese, they're Chinese, we're all one happy family, but when you go there, you'll realize you're not one of them. You may have the same color skin, speak the same language, but you're still not one of them! To them, you speak Chinese weirdly, you have western mannerisms, etc. You're a singaporean, get used to it.Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:And regarding those issues in which a person said that China people have bad hairdos, bad fashion sense, and no money. Haha, it seems that this guy either have no IQ or doesn't read the papers. Each culture is different. We may find people from China with wierd fashion sense, but in their country, that may not be the case. We are a nearly-westernised country, hence to judge them from the westernised views of ours is duely unfair. If that is so, ain't women in the Arab World has worse fashion sense, covering every part of their body? But it's part of the Arabic culture.
No money? I've a feeling the guy whom said this must not be rich, or do not have a wealthy family. Those in middle class and above families should now knoiw that China is growing, growing at a rate 7 2.5 times ours. Our GDP growth rate was 2-3%, China's was 7-9%. I
In this world like this where people belittle their own race.They may well be better off dead. As the famous Chinese saying goes "ying shui shi yuan" Never forget your roots. -
hey guys.. u guys still don't get the point don't u.. k.. i explain it in paragraph mode.
When referring to Chinese. I AIN'T referring to CHINA CHINESE, but SINGAPOREAN CHINESE. Why do u CX keep on harping on CHINA, when i ain;t even REFERRING TO THEM.
AND the M guy.. Look CAREFULLY, AIN'T u contridicting yourself. I SAID THE VIEWS of yours depend on wad sense are YOU LOOKING AT.. EG. For YOu you are looking in a WESTERN manner, HENCE the CHINAMEN may appear FUNNY... THAT's WHy i use the example of THE WAY WE VIEW THE ARABIC WORLD..
And for goodness sake.. stop dragging my term "Chinese" To CHINA CHINESE.. It just makes thing complicated.. ANd why should You when u are already making things so complex. If you are not proficient in your CHINESE.. Den AT LEAST be PROFICIENT IN YOUR ENGLISH for GOD's SAKE.. Dont embarrase SINGAPORE by ur LANGUAGE's USAGE...
BY the WAY, i AIN'T being PRO-CHINA.. I wasn'T even prasising it. UP TILL NOW, WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOUT CHINA was in DEFENSE of IT... -
stop draggin the word chinese to china chinese?? ahahah what is a person from china called??Chinese......what is a person from malaysia called? Malaysian.....what is a person from hmm...i dunno why dont you pick a country?Germany maybe? what is he called? a german....you dont see themselves proudly proclaiming to be a goth or a Norwigian? though they came from the same place.But i do not see them complaining! Face it dude we are no longer Chinese......we are now Singaporeans!Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:And for goodness sake.. stop dragging my term "Chinese" To CHINA CHINESE.. It just makes thing complicated.. ANd why should You when u are already making things so complex. If you are not proficient in your CHINESE.. Den AT LEAST be PROFICIENT IN YOUR ENGLISH for GOD's SAKE.. Dont embarrase SINGAPORE by ur LANGUAGE's USAGE... -
i agree with ProudSGChinese, i am really ashame of chinese when my friends bring a calculator instead of a abacus to school.
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(sarcasium on)Ya and i'm ashame that people drive instead of using a rickshaw ,a horse draw cart or even a sedan chair!(sarcasium off)Originally posted by pocketpig II:i agree with ProudSGChinese, i am really ashame of chinese when my friends bring a calculator instead of a abacus to school.
riteeeeeee -
Because this is an English forum and Chinese aren't the only ones participating and reading. Perhaps You'd like to translate the last sentence of yours for the benefit of others.Originally posted by FireIce:jus wondering why this discussion is not in Chinese.....
hua ren, hua yu, hua wen -
HAHAHAHAAHA..... eh how ignorant can you be?Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:No money? I've a feeling the guy whom said this must not be rich, or do not have a wealthy family. Those in middle class and above families should now knoiw that China is growing, growing at a rate 7 2.5 times ours. Our GDP growth rate was 2-3%, China's was 7-9%.
If you've read The Coming Collapse of China, that huge GDP growth was due to overproduction in the many factories in China which have crappy quality control. All that unwanted goods are just sitting in warehouses waiting to be bought and they're contributing to that GDP growth you were talking about.
China?! GROWING?! You must've been blinded by those crazy financial advisors who're just so overwhelmed by the "potential" of the huge market. Well, there isn't much of a market to be overwhelmed about. An average Chinese national earns about US$0.50 a day, and he can't even feed himself. What makes you think that he can buy those goods the foreign investors are trying to sell? How about corruption? Sure... the CCP is trying to solve this problem by increasing Civil Service workers' salaries by US$12. Will that even solve it?! The amounts they receive by bribery exceeds that amount by the thousands.
You only look at Shanghai... but that's a real small part of China. It's only a small showcase of China for the CCP to wayang about. The government is abusing the very same people they used to rise to power - the peasants. So how confident are you that China will rule over us??
Anyway, I was way off the topic. But I'm Chinese and proud of it. I can't write the language for crap (that's why I'm in Chinese B syllabus) but I can speak it. I can still write my Chinese name and all the basic sentences learnt in primary school. I abhorr those morons who wanna "ascend" to the "higher" races like the Japs or Koreans. I respect the Japanese for their creativity (think about their real great games they produce) and they being hardworking. Koreans.... I don't wanna criticise them but they're a real great people. Been there once. But don't degrade yourself by trying to "acsend", because you're already born Chinese and you can't change it.
Many of our traditions don't make sense, like burning paper for dead ones. They just annoy me by those black shit floating around. But the traditions still kept are like filial piety etc. They make us unique. The darn angmohs out there just grow up and say f off to their parents after that. -
enigmatic, these are the meanings
hua ren = chinese people
hua yu = the chinese language
hua wen = chinese language again -
Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:
i'm not referring to mainland china per se... just as u use your arab example to illustrate your point, i use china to illustrate my point that its pointless to see local chinese in the same way as mainlanders...
hey guys.. u guys still don't get the point don't u.. k.. i explain it in paragraph mode.
When referring to Chinese. I AIN'T referring to CHINA CHINESE, but SINGAPOREAN CHINESE. Why do u CX keep on harping on CHINA, when i ain;t even REFERRING TO THEM.
thats why defining chinese-ness becomes very shifty when u apply arbitrary boundaries on those where the factors are not applicable.
speaking the language for instance... are we talking about being conversant or being literate? does it mean that u're not "learned" if u dunno wen yen wen?
as for wanting to be jap, i think your friend just being lame and stupid lah... most of us don't care for being jap (we just watch their lame tv shows), koreans (who used to be a jap colony) or ang moh (who're really quite duh sometimes
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so do u get my point or not? if not, state what u don't understand and i'll try to be more specific.And for goodness sake.. stop dragging my term "Chinese" To CHINA CHINESE.. It just makes thing complicated.. ANd why should You when u are already making things so complex. If you are not proficient in your CHINESE.. Den AT LEAST be PROFICIENT IN YOUR ENGLISH for GOD's SAKE.. Dont embarrase SINGAPORE by ur LANGUAGE's USAGE...
understanding that the matter u raised is complex beyond your original simplistic assertation is a good start... at least we've established the premises that being "chinese" means more than one thing. in fact, i feel that it means different things to different people.BY the WAY, i AIN'T being PRO-CHINA.. I wasn'T even prasising it. UP TILL NOW, WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOUT CHINA was in DEFENSE of IT...
why defend it at all? its full of holes. i for one, don't agree with all that crap about china being the land of opportunities. its just another economy. its big, of course, but like all economic systems, it always disappoints when u're not in the right line, at the right place, at the right time and with the right people. -
You must have a hole in your brain, because obviously, you didn't really comprehend what I wrote. First of all, so I'm looking at it from a western viewpoint. Ok... So? I don't really get your point. I'm making things complex? Sorry if I am... Perhaps your gripes about my so-called language impairment are actually the cries of a tormented subconscious. The way I see it, you are the one who isn't literate in english. For example, look at your spelling. "Embarrase"? Look at your grammar and sentence structure. If you would have bothered to read my posts (which i find highly unlikely seeing as to how you appear to possess a grasp of the english language comparible to that of an ungulate), you'll find that they are at least grammatically correct, which is far more than I can say for yours. I think its amazingly ironic how you can tell me that my English is bad when it is plainly clear that yours is far worse. "ain't"? I hate it when people try to talk like niggers even though they aren't. So what... are you a Chinese, or an African american? Or perhaps you're just westernized. Which then leads me to wonder: "Why the hell are you complaining about Singaporeans being westernized?" Maybe you're the one who's wallowing in self-loathing. Think about what I've said, eh.Originally posted by ProudSGChinese:hey guys.. u guys still don't get the point don't u.. k.. i explain it in paragraph mode.
When referring to Chinese. I AIN'T referring to CHINA CHINESE, but SINGAPOREAN CHINESE. Why do u CX keep on harping on CHINA, when i ain;t even REFERRING TO THEM.
AND the M guy.. Look CAREFULLY, AIN'T u contridicting yourself. I SAID THE VIEWS of yours depend on wad sense are YOU LOOKING AT.. EG. For YOu you are looking in a WESTERN manner, HENCE the CHINAMEN may appear FUNNY... THAT's WHy i use the example of THE WAY WE VIEW THE ARABIC WORLD..
And for goodness sake.. stop dragging my term "Chinese" To CHINA CHINESE.. It just makes thing complicated.. ANd why should You when u are already making things so complex. If you are not proficient in your CHINESE.. Den AT LEAST be PROFICIENT IN YOUR ENGLISH for GOD's SAKE.. Dont embarrase SINGAPORE by ur LANGUAGE's USAGE...
BY the WAY, i AIN'T being PRO-CHINA.. I wasn'T even prasising it. UP TILL NOW, WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOUT CHINA was in DEFENSE of IT... -
Wahahaha... damn I'm good! Score one for me!
Mazohyst 1 - Stupid cheena nigga wannabe illiterate dogshit mofo 0 -
.... you're patting yourself on the back because you think you "owned" someone with your fanciful use of vulgarities? You're probably the only wannabe in this post.
Wahahaha... damn I'm good! Score one for me!
Mazohyst 1 - Stupid cheena nigga wannabe illiterate dog%@&@ mofo 0
SGChinese made some good points but different people have different opinions, your friend's opinion about wanting to be japanese is his choice not the majority's as a whole. All races have their rebels who feel that their race is inferior but they do not speak for the whole race.
Some people feel that they don't want to be Chinese, there are also people that are interested in Chinese Calligraphy, Literature, History, Art...etc. Surely you cannot expect us to all be interested in it. By what model do you consider the ideal Singaporean chinese ?
Also, it is not solely the government's responsiblity to ensure we keep our Chinese heritage. We are supposed to be a multi racial society, we cannot expect our government to play favouritism. That is also a reason why they can't embark too zealously on the campaign for Chinese. -
In what way does that make me a wannabe? Don't see your logic. Sheesh... was i talking to you? Who the hell are you anyway... mind your own business, noob.Originally posted by Stevenson101:.... you're patting yourself on the back because you think you "owned" someone with your fanciful use of vulgarities? You're probably the only wannabe in this post.
SGChinese made some good points but different people have different opinions, your friend's opinion about wanting to be japanese is his choice not the majority's as a whole. All races have their rebels who feel that their race is inferior but they do not speak for the whole race.
Some people feel that they don't want to be Chinese, there are also people that are interested in Chinese Calligraphy, Literature, History, Art...etc. Surely you cannot expect us to all be interested in it. By what model do you consider the ideal Singaporean chinese ?
Also, it is not solely the government's responsiblity to ensure we keep our Chinese heritage. We are supposed to be a multi racial society, we cannot expect our government to play favouritism. That is also a reason why they can't embark too zealously on the campaign for Chinese.