Chinese In Singapore.
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as much as i detest religion and all. your arguement is so flawed i don't know where to start correcting you from.Originally posted by mixedblooder:blah -
Firstly, there is some truth in what u say about Christianity being a sort of 'brand'. However, kindly show more respect for it, it still is alot of people's religion.Originally posted by mixedblooder:Nevermind, i should not speak so much stuff, cos yall will get sidetracked from the point and critic me heh, anywayz, fine fine Jesus was a jewish guy i said he most likely might have been a caucasian looking person, but that is not the point. I don't give a **** how Jesus looked like. What i said was just my thoughts whizzling in me head.
The point is; as i said before, i believe Christianitiy as a religion is a kind of brand of being Westernized, the "in" thing is to be Christian cos the Americans are Christian, and we all love America soo much don't we? Well not America, but perhaps its "way of life". Anywayz, "sorry I have forgotten your name" said the people i am reffering to are yuppies, okie, i assume yall are not yuppies then, okie well are there many of these kind of "yuppy" people then? Or are they a minority? Cos i am sure such people do exist.
Next, Christianity in Europe is dying out, more Europeans regard being Christian as something just to put under the "State your religion" category on official forms, they don't really believe in it much,,, especially after the book Holy Blood and Holy Grail came out (this book provided detective type evidence that Jesus' crucifiction was false and denounced what Christians believe Jesus was today)... in England and France, Churches have been turned into pubs, lounges, resteraunts and sometimes apartments or even manufacturing lines (but quite rare cos of the decor that churches possess). Whatever Churches are left (Canterbury, Edinburgh Cathedral) are only there for tourist purposes and to teach young kiddies how to sing in Latin, i've been there, tourists can dress up like cardinals or priests and have photos taken with the beautiful stained glass for 10 pounds. Most Europeans are more into the Eastern religions nowadays like Buddhism and Taoism. So there!
"Want to fight iszit"
Chaar, i can see why the mods must hav edited your post, cos you like to turn everything into a joke, i've seen you in other forums and posts, you make fun of cross-dresses and bangladeshi workers. No wonder u have got your posts edited.
Secondly, People dun become Christian cos they want the American way of life. Its rather stupid to go down to Church every week for something u don't believe in in the first place.
Thirdly, there are still many churches around, I think there are prob more churches around then Churches who have been converted to pubs and what-not.
Fourth, being Christian doesn't mean u're a yuppy.
Fifth, maybe u should visit those churches that are NOT tourist attractions b4 u comment.
Sixth, I think you're sentence 'Most Europeans are turning to Eastern religions' is abit off. It should be 'More Europeans are...' Yes there are more Europeans turning to religions such as Buddhism but most are still Christians.
Seventh, realise that alot of people are Christians cos they were born into it. And similarly, alot of people were also born into Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, etc. So don't just go attacking people for their religion.
Eighth, I'm Buddhist and I think u should pipe down ur religious arguments a little.
Yah I think I'm done. Anyone wanna add on?
my two cents -
haha, ' American Circle SPhere of Influence' interesting term...Originally posted by mixedblooder:no offence taken? How was it trash? Anywayz but I am sure that people convert to Christianity to be in the American Circle Sphere of Influence... like to be in their culture and stuff; aka westernized.... like wearing ties and shirts and shoes etc
Well, the world has long since been dominated by Western culture as a DIRECT RESULT of its visible successes. As such, Asian countries like Japan and South korea have EMULATED the European systems because it was viewed as the way things should be done.
However, the world is changing. Countries like India and China, the two Asian powers, are rising in prominence and increasingly, Asians are realising that the Western idea of democracy is NOT the only way in which things are done.
But we cannot keep all Asian values. Many are are like gags which simple do not apply in a world of cutthroat competition and in an economy with a capitalist engine. But is the capitalist system wrong? So far, it remains right. It increases the power of the individual as compared to traditional Asian systems which focused on the power of the state or organisation as a whole.
Basically, I know my argument sounds like it contradict itself, but the point I'm trying to hit is that, yes, the Western method and Western culture is dominating, but this is because of their successes in other areas, and that the erosion of Asian values is the fault of Asians who in the process of modernisation adn keeping up with the times, have failed to preserve their own culture.
But then again, NOT ALL Asian values can be kept and not all are right, (the same applies to Western culture). -
Wah lau....this is the first lame post i see in this thread. Will look out for more.Originally posted by |-|05|:stop draggin the word chinese to china chinese?? ahahah what is a person from china called??Chinese......what is a person from malaysia called? Malaysian.....what is a person from hmm...i dunno why dont you pick a country?Germany maybe? what is he called? a german....you dont see themselves proudly proclaiming to be a goth or a Norwigian? though they came from the same place.But i do not see them complaining! Face it dude we are no longer Chinese......we are now Singaporeans!
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To: laser51088
I have shown no disrespect, but even if i have, sorry. I don't mean all Christians are yuppies, i mean the kind of people who specifically convert just to be more Americanised (as i have said); yes! That specific group exists, but my question is whether this group is a large one or not?
I have visited the churches in france (i am a french citizen) and england, as i have said, whatever real churches are left are to amuse tourists and to teach kids to sing in latin. Hell, watch some British television, watch "Harry and Miller" show for example, they poke fun @ Christianity, they get top notch ratings for the show, most of the dissing-CHristianity punchlines come from the book Holy Blood & Holy Grail anyway. Ofcourse such openess would be prohibited here, but the very fact it exists in England goes to show how the Europeans there regard their so called religion, that an the numerous magazine polls and the craze for eastern religions. So don't talk to me like i'm a thicky
Yes I agree, on paper, those people are "Christian" but the spirit of belief in it all has diminished frankly... to them/us, it is just something we write down on application forms that ask us "State Religion under dotted line". -
Apparently you belong to the group of Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (M.S.S.)es that believe that Christians are finished in Eurpoe.
"There will be no christians in europe! Soon! Never!"
"Their places will be turned into pubs and lounges, we have driven them back!"
"I triple guarantee you, there are no Christians in Europe!"
"I speak better latin than those european church kids!"
Maybe you should take a look around at the real church in Europe, rather then just checking out tourist attractions and pubs. The last I checked, they seem pretty much vibrant and alive.
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lets not tok abt europe christianity..i think they r still quite alive..not tat dead..
y not tok abt local christian..i noe most local christian r nice pple..
but not all...somehow there is something wrong in the picture...ive been to various church..invited by some christian frens..most r ok..
but when it come to some church..there is something reali wrong wif the christian teens...some of them have red hair green hair..purple hair..golden..well its ok for me..den i saw some of them smoking outside their church...its still alrite wif me...i was waiting for my fren to fetch me...all of sudden..one of the golden hair boy began to spew all sort of vulgar broken hokkien language on me(i can retaliate wif better hokkien but i gotta give face n respect to my christian frens) one of them askin for a 1 on 1(ok..i tot to myself tats lame)...i keep my cool..asking them did i do something tat piss them off..blah blah blah...tis goes on for a few min..my fren approach them..cool them off..i went up to my fren car...the end
ok wats wrong wif tis picture now...the incident happen in one of the church i went...but seen such pple in other church...not all.. -
Ohhhhh heyyyy so you were that guy ah? Hahaha! My friends did like your face dats all lar, would'nt have happen to be something big lar relax lar, but nvm your other friends also bail u out that time wad hehe.
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Hey Barney, when was the last time you checked? I'll bet it was on some internet site showing pictures of happy Christian kids running around for the Lord with some giant blue screen showing words of some hymn and a rockband in the background playing christian music. I am not part of any Muhammad god knows what the **** he's called, muslims should be banned but this is not the forum for such views
Anywayz, all i am relating is my personal experience when I was last in contact with British people and their way of life (Harry&Miller TV; National Front magazine and tv-show etc) last week, just returned from London. And what do u mean by "Lively" Christians, what exactly defines "Lively"? -
oh izit? haha..i dun like frens face too...but im decent enuff to keep my cool..n not blubber vulgar language like ur frens who need to be tot by their parents again..i believe the same thing goes to u...nowadays kids..just wana pick a fight they cant win...Originally posted by chaar123:Ohhhhh heyyyy so you were that guy ah? Hahaha! My friends did like your face dats all lar, would'nt have happen to be something big lar relax lar, but nvm your other friends also bail u out that time wad hehe.
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Let me begin:
The idea of "speaking so much stuff" is to allow people to see your point of view and give their opinion of it. What you are doing is calling everyone who doesn't agree with you(Basically everyone) sidetracking. If you don't like criticisms of your views i suggest you find a nice spot in the Sahara desert, dig a nice little comfortable hole, get a nice sofa and cable TV and spend the rest of your miserable life there.
Nevermind, i should not speak so much stuff, cos yall will get sidetracked from the point and critic me heh
If you make a point, you are opening yourself to criticisms. If people don't get your point, enlighten them instead of ridiculing them. Such behaviours are only used by people who know they're losing an argument and seek to salvage some dignity.
First you said this:
Then you say this
I am sure that people convert to Christianity to be in the American Circle Sphere of Influence.
You contradict yourself. Please at least correct your statements before giving a final verdict. The yuppies you mention do exist, the same way i can say that priests that molest boys exist. But that doesn't make every priest a child molester does it?
the kind of people who specifically convert just to be more Americanised (as i have said); yes! That specific group exists, but my question is whether this group is a large one or not?
And to move on......
Now u want to fight iszit? Bring it lar, u think I think u think u mix blod i scared u iszit? U tink you dick big then i scared ah? Huh? Bring it lar, East coast park man! Follow the graffiti.
Please chaar, if you feel fustrated go to the Bar forums. Please do not disturb the people here who wants nothing but a nice civil discussion.
Ohhhhh heyyyy so you were that guy ah? Hahaha! My friends did like your face dats all lar, would'nt have happen to be something big lar relax lar, but nvm your other friends also bail u out that time wad hehe.
And even if i went to East Coast Park and by a stroke of luck find you there and by an act of miracle you managed to beat me up badly what would that prove? I would still retain my view and you would be lying on a rack with your buttocks exposed to some lecher rotan man.
Enough with the insults, time for some serious discussion
A single TV show and two books alone does not represent the views of a country or its people. Like you said, the english are opened to new ideas so these people are allowed to make fun of the religion. But i'm fairly sure that only a minority truly believes what they say, others probably enjoy the show because seeing people doing taboo things are quite amusing. And these numbers are derived from the people that even watched it in the first place
watch "Harry and Miller" show for example, they poke fun @ Christianity, they get top notch ratings for the show, most of the dissing-CHristianity punchlines come from the book Holy Blood & Holy Grail anyway. Ofcourse such openess would be prohibited here, but the very fact it exists in England goes to show how the Europeans there regard their so called religion, -
Hmm... I am familiar with such people in churches... these are the youth that we have pulled off the street and are trying to help. Needless to say, one needs to understand that you do not have to be a placid, righteous, regal person carrying a two ton bible to go to church.Originally posted by NathanG5:but not all...somehow there is something wrong in the picture...ive been to various church..invited by some christian frens..most r ok..
but when it come to some church..there is something reali wrong wif the christian teens...some of them have red hair green hair..purple hair..golden..well its ok for me..den i saw some of them smoking outside their church...its still alrite wif me...i was waiting for my fren to fetch me...all of sudden..one of the golden hair boy began to spew all sort of vulgar broken hokkien language on me(i can retaliate wif better hokkien but i gotta give face n respect to my christian frens) one of them askin for a 1 on 1(ok..i tot to myself tats lame)...i keep my cool..asking them did i do something tat piss them off..blah blah blah...tis goes on for a few min..my fren approach them..cool them off..i went up to my fren car...the end
ok wats wrong wif tis picture now...the incident happen in one of the church i went...but seen such pple in other church...not all..
Of course, while such people are not condemmed, they must also take steps to change their behaviour. I do not think it is a problem if you see such people in church, or coming out from it, it is only a problem when they have been going there for four years, and have not changed a wee bit. -
well i see nothing wrong with my statement......i mean honestly what makes a race?Perhaps you can answer that and thus explain why i was lameOriginally posted by M©+square:Wah lau....this is the first lame post i see in this thread. Will look out for more. 
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Hmmmmm.....flames getting abit hot here. Tone down abit....and use more rational language when discussing. Will be watching here abit more now.
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NathanG5: I suppose the church you went to was City Harvest...? It has lots of "fake" christians there who join the church for the sake of joining or just going there every saturday/sunday to look at girls.
Of course.. there are quite a few nice people there who still care about God and are serious about it.
besides that... I feel that mixedblooder should have a broader view about christianity.
sure.. England has the two television series and the book to make fun of the religion.. but please do note that England and Singapore are different and have a different set of moral values. Perhaps the people at jolly ole England are more open about such issues and just laugh at the show about the loopholes of the religion but still take the show with a pinch of salt.
Your view of Christianity is a picture of children running after Jesus and following him. You seem to only look at the outside of this... not the inside... about the core values of Christianity and the morals it teaches. Perhaps some hypocrites at churches have put you off about this... but please do note that generalising religions like this will put you into a situation of trouble and serious embarassment. -
NathanG5: I suppose the church you went to was City Harvest...? It has lots of "fake" christians there who join the church for the sake of joining or just going there every saturday/sunday to look at girls.
City Harvest? I went there several times because of friends' invitation and my own curiousity. It's very crowded, but organised fairly orderly. I don't see any aggressive behavior as Nathan has suggested. The church arranged for the members with bigger physique to perform as security.
Of course.. there are quite a few nice people there who still care about God and are serious about
Agreeably i feel their idea of workshipping god clashes with mine(I'm old school) but fake christians? -
nah its not CIty Harvest...but been there when its still at its old place...but seriously City Harvest freaks me out...there r still multi color hair pple there also..so far had no problem wif them...abt y im freak out..i cant explain...not sure y...went there once tats it..Originally posted by NEWater:NathanG5: I suppose the church you went to was City Harvest...? It has lots of "fake" christians there who join the church for the sake of joining or just going there every saturday/sunday to look at girls.
Of course.. there are quite a few nice people there who still care about God and are serious about it.
besides that... I feel that mixedblooder should have a broader view about christianity.
sure.. England has the two television series and the book to make fun of the religion.. but please do note that England and Singapore are different and have a different set of moral values. Perhaps the people at jolly ole England are more open about such issues and just laugh at the show about the loopholes of the religion but still take the show with a pinch of salt.
Your view of Christianity is a picture of children running after Jesus and following him. You seem to only look at the outside of this... not the inside... about the core values of Christianity and the morals it teaches. Perhaps some hypocrites at churches have put you off about this... but please do note that generalising religions like this will put you into a situation of trouble and serious embarassment. -
seriously City Harvest freaks me out...there r still multi color hair pple there also..so far had no problem wif them...abt y im freak out..i cant explain...not sure y...went there once tats it..
Haha i feel the same way too. It's too energetic for my liking. -
Um... "fake" christians as in those who join the church and "agree" to accept Christ for the sake of social recognition and joining the church for social reasons and not spiritual (such as looking at girls and socialising)Originally posted by Stevenson101:Agreeably i feel their idea of workshipping god clashes with mine(I'm old school) but fake christians? -
it's more like a (city havest)business to me...
always can see on stage asking ppl to buy this and that...
don't really like that idea...
if really want to spread words of god, shouldn't it be free?
it's too much of a trade in city harvest...
don't really like the idea of it...
as for the order that, it's not bad... considering the amount of ppl
who went there, i would say they did a great job maintaining the order.... however, there's something wrong with the preaching....
just a thought -
Well i heard they were planning to build a 3rd church, that's why they're trying to raise the funds for it.
Their church is already so fancy, surely you can't expect everything to be for free? -
[b][b]Let me begin:
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Nevermind, i should not speak so much stuff, cos yall will get sidetracked from the point and critic me heh
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The idea of "speaking so much stuff" is to allow people to see your point of view and give their opinion of it. What you are doing is calling everyone who doesn't agree with you(Basically everyone) sidetracking. If you don't like criticisms of your views i suggest you find a nice spot in the Sahara desert, dig a nice little comfortable hole, get a nice sofa and cable TV and spend the rest of your miserable life there.
If you make a point, you are opening yourself to criticisms. If people don't get your point, enlighten them instead of ridiculing them. Such behaviours are only used by people who know they're losing an argument and seek to salvage some dignity.
First you said this:
quote:
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I am sure that people convert to Christianity to be in the American Circle Sphere of Influence.
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Then you say this
quote:
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the kind of people who specifically convert just to be more Americanised (as i have said); yes! That specific group exists, but my question is whether this group is a large one or not?
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You contradict yourself. Please at least correct your statements before giving a final verdict. The yuppies you mention do exist, the same way i can say that priests that molest boys exist. But that doesn't make every priest a child molester does it? [/b][/b]
Stevenson:
I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea what your on about, you say I contradict meself via your highlights, but exactly how? Let me try and explain it in simple steps with order... since you locals are so into science.... okie: the people i mentioned who are Christians just to be in the American sphere of influence.... are the same people who specifically convert just to be more Americanised (as i have said); is that clear so far? And these people (yes we are still talking about the same people) are yuppies in my definition (or this definition was helped by someone else who used the exact word yuppy which i agree).
Ahhhhh... Okie twas a little miscommunicae there, all along i was talking about the group of people who convert to be blah blah blah *as above... ofcourse to say that every bloody one of you Christians is Christian because of USA is stupid... it is very obvious, i am sorry if i gave the wrong impression. For I do not rule out the possibility that people become Christians because they have heard the LORD's Word... I thought you all understood that I was talking abt what i was talking about... obviously you people did not understand... no no! Damn! Wrong choice of words... sorry my fault, did not phrase it properly. I write too much like I am speaking, will correct that.
As for the sidetracking bit, the fact that I am acknowledging my possible mistake indicates I am not someone to be in the desert as u said earlier. I merely hate these sidetracks (like this) when I want to say more abt what i have to say without explaining it to people in plain english.
A single TV show and two books alone does not represent the views of a country or its people. Like you said, the english are opened to new ideas so these people are allowed to make fun of the religion. But i'm fairly sure that only a minority truly believes what they say, others probably enjoy the show because seeing people doing taboo things are quite amusing. And these numbers are derived from the people that even watched it in the first place
Again let me elaborate a bit more, not just 1 single tv show and books ... a total of... oh yes.. to clarify so I don't get more sidetracks.. i am talking about Wessex, god knows about N.Ireland they're still in the dark ages for all i care.
1. BBC productions documentories on Holy Blood + Holy Grail abt Jesus' supposed fraud crucifiction... altogether more than 10 episodes... dealing with interviews about British citizen's view on the faith after the book came out and historical accounts of Christian atrocities...
2. Historical references to Christian atrocities, there are many history books... crusades... burning people... hanging people for saying the earth was round etc... visit flat earth society webpage...etc
3. Harry n Miller over 3 years of seasons with interviews of people about their attitudes to Christian faith which is mostly quotes like... "nah don't believe in it" from British citizens... I remember it i was there i watched them... every week at 9.
4. Pope publically apologising for Christian atrocities and admitting Church made a mistake that Earth was round.. not flat... as they previously preached..
5. Sex and drug abuse happening in Churches converted into pubs... Churches being used to shelter against rain... (Voted number 1 use of a Church in London Herald Life section)... Churches being converted to houses.... resteraunts... etc etc, and the only people making noise about such "atrocity being commited in the house of god" are the bishops and the small Ultra-Fanatical Christian populaton...
6. Priests (especially black or bangladeshi or paki) getting assaulted by national front people...
7. Almost every Westerner (supposedly Christian in the eyes of indigenous Asians) i met at parties gallery openings (more times than the average local) will have a lot of unpleasant things to say abt the religion... most of them are Buddhists...taoists... 1 or 2 muslim even... but i think they were excommunicated from Family cos of the "terrorist" stuff...
So far, yea in total this is my proof... most of it covering basic daily life in London this past decade. Ok... my motion is... Most people in England don't really believe in Christianity anymore, many turning towards traditionally Asian religions...
NOw satisfy hereditary hunger to shout and roar and contradict AND CRITICISE ME HA HA! -
Mixed blooder you cannot speak english properly... i'm guessing that is the next reply critic hehe..
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wow, is this problem of Chinese losing their roots really that serious? I mean i look everywhere and i see my friends speaking Chinese.
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ProudSGchinese is worthy of praise for initiating a discussion on the subject of Chinese S'poreans slowly losing our identity. I hope in the process of this discourse, the tide will turn for the better so that S'poreans will be truly a people of international stature, cultured, educated, socially responsible and have a strong sense of identity, in tandem with our economic status as a developed country.
It is hoped that those who have viered off the course will be enlightened and return to the rightful path as an educated person shall.
No doubt English language give us the economic well being but a tryly educated person ought to look beyond the mere material consideration and reach for a higher cultural and spiritual state which characterize us as a human being of certain ethnicity (i.e.Chinese or Huaren). Otherwise, it would be ridiculously incompatible to have a human frame of a Huaren look and the words coming out from his mouth is only English. In today's world and in the S'pore context, we can survive meaningfully if and only if we master the 2 languages, one for our economic survival, the other to anchor to our cultural roots which in turn assure us of surviiving in the face of adversity.
I hope the English-only countrymen can attain their realization in the not too distant future.