National Day Message 2010 by PM Lee
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Originally posted by likeyou:
Seriously I dont want $9k, let the boys out of rod asap! 2 yrs too long.
Having both is more ideal. But I would still take the $9k first, talk later.
They should give an option for donating that amount away, since people like you don't want it.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
that is why the opposition fall flat. The first issued to tackle isn't national service....40K - 45K active service isn't alot especially you considered the number include support personnel. a 2 yr rotation probably just address the minimum including ample training and exposure.
If you are going to have your sons serve national service please give them enough training so that they can fend for themselves and not be like those police in "Manila".
So if you are rooted for opposition...there are plenty of issued to address...!!!
I must salute you for having a clear mind and a broad perspective, amidst all these .......*&%$#@.
NS isn't an issue. 1 yr NS is out of the question. How can we train young boys to become operational fit soldiers in 1 yr? many of them are even not physically fit when they are enrolled.
But I think within 1 yr, to train them as special police force to handle terrorists on hijacked bus, they can certainly do a better job than the phillippino SWAT, just do not be at on the hostage side.
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I agree with NS men worth more than 9k, but anyway its better than nothing.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
I must salute you for having a clear mind and a broad perspective, amidst all these .......*&%$#@.
NS isn't an issue. 1 yr NS is out of the question. How can we train young boys to become operational fit soldiers in 1 yr? many of them are even not physically fit when they are enrolled.
But I think within 1 yr, to train them as special police force to handle terrorists on hijacked bus, they can certainly do a better job than the phillippino SWAT, just do not be at on the hostage side.
For a diehard (and most times ignorant) supporter of this govt, you are talking some real nonsense.
If the govt did not reduce NS from 2.5 years to 2 years, you would be saying that 2 year NS is out of the question.
Most of us complete our training within 1 year. The remaining 1.5 years were just lazing around, going for exercise, lazing around, going for exercise. The remaining 1.5 years can be just allocated to the reservist years.
I for one support a 1 year NS program and then perhaps a slightly longer reservist cycle.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
For a diehard (and most times ignorant) supporter of this govt, you are talking some real nonsense.
If the govt did not reduce NS from 2.5 years to 2 years, you would be saying that 2 year NS is out of the question.
Most of us complete our training within 1 year. The remaining 1.5 years were just lazing around, going for exercise, lazing around, going for exercise. The remaining 1.5 years can be just allocated to the reservist years.
I for one support a 1 year NS program and then perhaps a slightly longer reservist cycle.
I for one support a 1 year NS program and then perhaps a slightly longer reservist cycle.
I agree with this. The effectiveness will still be there. The contribution of 1 yr by all male citizens to the economy will be tremendous.
1) Male citizens will be able to save 1 yr of their life and contribute that 1 extra year. This results in an overall larger workforce, which implies lesser need for FTs and FWs since companies are complaining there's not enough employees.
2) Less complaints from citizens.
I think and hope the PAP is moving towards this direction eventually.
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9k is a red herring. Now, let's wait for GST increase.
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can pay $9k and don't need to do NS?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
I must salute you for having a clear mind and a broad perspective, amidst all these .......*&%$#@.
NS isn't an issue. 1 yr NS is out of the question. How can we train young boys to become operational fit soldiers in 1 yr? many of them are even not physically fit when they are enrolled.
But I think within 1 yr, to train them as special police force to handle terrorists on hijacked bus, they can certainly do a better job than the phillippino SWAT, just do not be at on the hostage side.
Looks like you never served Singapore NS.
My personal view is that people who have never served NS shouldn't comment on NS issues.
Because they have ridiculous ideas about NS.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
can pay $9k and don't need to do NS?
I don't mind pay 4 times the amount if don't need do NS.
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Originally posted by βÎτά:
I don't mind pay 4 times the amount if don't need do NS.
Same. But I already done. LOL...
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for that 2 years spent, we can easily earn ten to twenty times of 9k
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PM Lee’s $9000 “Carrot” to NSMen is an insult to all Male Singaporeans
I read with amusment and contempt at the latest announcement of PM Lee’s decision to give $9000 to every male Singaporean who have completed his National Service liabilities as a distorted and twisted means of appeasing the local population in a feeble attempt to placate the locals and assuring them that Singaporeans’ interest are still “first” in the eyes of the PAP.Insincerity of the Monetary Compensation
Perhaps the glaring and most obvious slap into the face of every male Singaporean is the fact that the $9000 monetary compensation for the 2.5 years that every male wastes in his National Service liability is that it comes in the form of CPF “money” and not cash. As much as the PAP would like us to think of our CPF money as our own money, the reality of the situation speaks otherwise. While there may be current seniors who were lucky enough to escape the recent spat of changes of ever more restrictive options of withdrawing CPF, a realistic analysis of the past behavior of PAP and their management of CPF will lead almost anyone under the age of 40 to conclude that he is probably unlikely to ever see his CPF retirement savings in his lifetime. With schemes like raising the Minimum Sum, raising the Retirement Age and most recently the reduced payout from CPF LIFE, as a mid-20s male citizen I am fairly confident that the only way that I will ever see my CPF money is when both my feet are in the coffin (an analogy that implies that the CPF money can only be withdrawn upon death or at a very old age). Thus, this token sum of $9000 CPF “money” that the PAP has offered is probably as useful as the “hell notes” that the Chinese burn as an offering to their ancestors. Quite simply, it is useless.
Inadequacy of Monetary Offer
Another slap into the face of every male Singaporean is the fact that TWO AND A HALF YEARS of the prime of our lives is only worth a pathetic $9000. In other words, the PAP has deemed that each male citizen is worth $3600/yr to $4500/yr (depending on whether you served 2.5 or 2.0 years of NS). In comparison, it makes every male citizen (in terms of monetary value) as valuable as the domestic maid you may have employed in your house. In fact, if one were to do a more accurate calculation and factor in the additional 10+ years of reservist liabilities, one will soon realize that (in terms of monetary value) maids have more value than male citizens in this country. Perhaps this was the point that PAP is trying to make – the lives of the male citizens in this country are less valuable than a maid, and probably approaching the value of a slave.
How Much is a NSMan Really Worth?
The following section attempts to calculate how much monetary compensation the PAP owes every male Singaporean. We shall use the most simple model to benchmark the lifetime earnings of a male Singaporean to that of a foreign “talent”. This models assumes the current age of 40 for the hypothetical person, 2 years of NS liability for the Singaporean, and 4 years of tertiary education for both the local and the foreigner, a starting salary of $30,000/yr, and an annual increment of 6.0%. With reference to the “Difference in Culumative Salary” column which denotes how much more a foreigner can earn in comparison to a local, the table below quite convincingly shows that a male citizen, age 40 as of this year should be entitled to claim around $150,000 based on the differential lifetime earning power when compared to a foreigner who has no such NS liability. In addition, to a first approximation, the table may be also used to derive the monetary entitlement for the compensation of National Service liability of any male from the age of 23 to 40 by looking up the respective value at the last column. When compared to the lowest value entitled for a 23 year old, which is $30,000, it does not take a genius to figure out that the $9000 monetary compensation from the PAP (even assuming it was paid out in cash) in a gross underestimate of how much the current government owes its male citizens.Year Age Singaporean Foreign “Talent” Difference in Culmulative Salary Annual Salary Culmulative Salary Annual Salary Culmulative Salary 1989 19 National Service Liability Tertiary Education NA 1990 20 NA 1991 21 Tertiary Education NA 1992 22 NA 1993 23 $30,000 $30,000 $30,000 1994 24 $31,800 $61,800 $61,800 1995 25 $30,000 $30,000 $33,708 $95,508 $65,508 1996 26 $31,800 $61,800 $35,730 $131,238 $69,438 1997 27 $33,708 $95,508 $37,874 $169,113 $73,605 1998 28 $35,730 $131,238 $40,147 $209,260 $78,021 1999 29 $37,874 $169,113 $42,556 $251,815 $82,702 2000 30 $40,147 $209,260 $45,109 $296,924 $87,664 2001 31 $42,556 $251,815 $47,815 $344,739 $92,924 2002 32 $45,109 $296,924 $50,684 $395,424 $98,500 2003 33 $47,815 $344,739 $53,725 $449,149 $104,410 2004 34 $50,684 $395,424 $56,949 $506,098 $110,674 2005 35 $53,725 $449,149 $60,366 $566,464 $117,315 2006 36 $56,949 $506,098 $63,988 $630,452 $124,354 2007 37 $60,366 $566,464 $67,827 $698,279 $131,815 2008 38 $63,988 $630,452 $71,897 $770,176 $139,724 2009 39 $67,827 $698,279 $76,211 $846,386 $148,107 2010 40 $71,897 $770,176 $80,783 $927,170 $156,994 Does the PAP really owe every NSMan up to $150,000?
The numbers from the table above may be shocking, but mathematics does not lie. To a first approximation, the PAP owes every male citizen from age 23 to 40 a sum ranging from $30,000 to $150,000. However, perhaps the more disturbing fact is that the figure is an approximation and the real value is likely to be higher. In this short study, we have failed to consider factors such as the preferential employment of foreigners over the locals and the higher retrenchment, unemployment and underemployment rates of locals. Moreover, we have also failed to account for investment returns from one’s savings which generate a geometric return over time, and given that a foreigner has a 2 year headstart compared to a local, this difference will accumulate to a non-trivial sum by age 40. Thus, it is the author’s honest assessment that the assumption of both the local and foreigner having the same annual increment of 6.0% is most likely incorrect and not realistic. In reality, a local will experience a lower annual increment value (or perhaps even an annual “decrement” value due to retrenchment/underemployment) over his working lifetime. Nevertheless, the short study provided here does provide a decently accurate estimation of the lower limit figure of how much the PAP owes its male citizens.
Garrett Goh
* Garrett Goh is a recent graduate from the National University of Singapore. To a first approximation, he calculates that the PAP owes him $65,000 in compensation for the 2.5 years he wasted in National Slavery Service.
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If they want to recognize our contributions, they should pay NSF the market rate for labour + bonus (contributions to NS).
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PAP thinks that they can buy off those who served 2 years or 2.5 years with just $9000.
This is an insult.
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Will you all be getting the 9k or not? If you don't buy house or further study, you are not going to get the 9k correct?
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Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:
PAP thinks that they can buy off those who served 2 years or 2.5 years with just $9000.
This is an insult.
Those who served NS in 2006 - 2008 were quite disappointed with Mas Selamat's disappearance incident back in 2008, when security was tightened up and NSFs were arrowed and called up for extra duties.
At the end of the episode, neither the Defence Minister nor the Prime Minister bothered to say a word of thank you or show appreciation for what the NSFs did.... The comment we hear from PM was "What to do, it has happened" ... -_-"
Source:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSDdKFpRQc -
Originally posted by tranquilice:
Will you all be getting the 9k or not? If you don't buy house or further study, you are not going to get the 9k correct?
Full details not out yet.
But my guess is no buy house, no further education = no full 9k -
why get excited over 9K? As far as i am concern this is a right pocket to a left pocket.
Can't even buy a basic cheese burger with this 9k.
Why not focus on the issues such as High pay jobs, housing, population. productivities.
PS: At least George Bush Tax Credit ...i received a cheque that i can cash in the Bank.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
PS: At least George Bush Tax Credit ...i received a cheque that i can cash in the Bank.
You American?
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Just check out CNA, all positive reviews about the NDR!! What are you people talking about?!?!?!
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Just check out CNA, all positive reviews about the NDR!! What are you people talking about?!?!?!
Then what you expect? criticism of NDR?
It's all controlled by PAP wah.
There is no need to keep on talking about CNA, ST or media corp being positive about PAP, or praise PAP.
These entities are all controlled in one way or another by the PAP.
It's like saying why the PAP mouthpiece petir keep on praise PAP?
It's a ridiculous question.
They are all one clique, one gang together.
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Originally posted by eagle:
I agree with this. The effectiveness will still be there. The contribution of 1 yr by all male citizens to the economy will be tremendous.
1) Male citizens will be able to save 1 yr of their life and contribute that 1 extra year. This results in an overall larger workforce, which implies lesser need for FTs and FWs since companies are complaining there's not enough employees.
2) Less complaints from citizens.
I think and hope the PAP is moving towards this direction eventually.
I hope the authorities will review this seriously....as what Eagle said...1.5 yr do what? lazy around, eat snake, what else? Do nothing and wasting the extra year for nothing. But prolong the reservists will be ideal for all the boys. And I am sure parents will be happy too. -
I not that excited about $9k for ns men.
If mindef can reduce the serving, it will be worth a million times more than $9k.
Dont you agree?
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
For a diehard (and most times ignorant) supporter of this govt, you are talking some real nonsense.
If the govt did not reduce NS from 2.5 years to 2 years, you would be saying that 2 year NS is out of the question.
Most of us complete our training within 1 year. The remaining 1.5 years were just lazing around, going for exercise, lazing around, going for exercise. The remaining 1.5 years can be just allocated to the reservist years.
I for one support a 1 year NS program and then perhaps a slightly longer reservist cycle.
for people like you who lazed around in the army, I sympathize with you. Looking at a bigger picture, I am sad that we actually need to keep ppl like you in the army. You wasted your time, the SAF wasted the resources feeding and clothing you.
Singapore came a long way in the development of its armed forces. They used to take almost 1 and a half years to train a support arm officer, such as combat engineer, when doctrine were being developed, equipment were lacking. They used to build bailey bridge, with a company, then the MGB, with a platoon, and now it is laguan with 3 or 4 men. They used to need strong guy, then poly engineer, now can play computer game ok liao.
the combined armed and specialist doctrine made certain training redundant, and time is saved.
Time is still needed for men to form units after training to carry out exercises to test the operational readiness. It took a while to test if our combined armed doctrine works.
With reducing manpower, we have done well in maintaining the strength of our SAF with technology upgrade and doctrinal changes. I think our armed forces planners will continue to improve.
We can reduce the total force readiness to just a few people, just buy a nuclear bomb.
Nobody wants to be in the army, they know that, and army also knows that there are many zho bo, jia liao bi in the army. What did you contribute to the SAF in the 2 years? you can be proud that you passed your IPPT.
Never see you in military nuts? you carried arms in the army?
August 31st, 2010 | 
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