find ns a waste of time
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not happy? i'm happy here... i'm just not happy with the likes of ungrateful and shallow individuals like u.Originally posted by MYPR:Come on, face the fact. Scum are everywhere. Did i say that i'm a loyal model good PR? Most successful business men are just like what you had mentioned, opportunistic scum. Your own government put you guys in the disadvantage and you turn around to blame us for being opportunistic scum? As you had mentioned, not happy you can migrate. you can always U-turn even if there is No U-Turn Sign
get this straight... u work here... i don't care what u do, u probably work hard for your money, but do have some respect for our national norms.
if a local guy says he hates NS, then at least he's entitled to that opinion cos he's been through it... the people complain when they're in it... once out of it, we kinda think its not such a bad idea upon hindsight. it forges an imagined community, a shared experience.
it is just plain insensitive of u to say something like that as a guest in this country.
or is that so hard for a mercenary foreign talent to understand? farked up third world individual... u're no difference from the closed-minded no-u-turn individual here... the only difference is, u're cheaper to employ. -
Originally posted by MYPR:
Money is not everything in this world. If that is the only thing in your mind, you have NO life.
No Choice no U-turn? Guess that's too bad for the rest of you guys then.....But i still think NS is a burden to you guys, that's wat the topic about. Time is money, what a waste.
b]
Money can never buy the fellowship and friendship you gain in NS.It can never buy the person to person relationship.True, it is tough, but it is never a burden. Whats good about having so much money when you don't know how to apreciate the true value of comradeship?
If you don't want NS, why don't you go back to where you came from, and set up a buisness there? Why come here the first place? Why go through all these trouble?
If you can't commit, then please, don't commit. Give up your citizenship for all i care. -
But think of it, lack of money also causes alot of problems if you read the newspapers...Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Money is not everything in this world. If that is the only thing in your mind, you have NO life.
Money can never buy the fellowship and friendship you gain in NS.It can never buy the person to person relationship.True, it is tough, but it is never a burden. Whats good about having so much money when you don't know how to apreciate the true value of comradeship?
If you don't want NS, why don't you go back to where you came from, and set up a buisness there? Why come here the first place? Why go through all these trouble?
If you can't commit, then please, don't commit. Give up your citizenship for all i care.
Some people didn't migrate because they have not enough money to leave Singapore. Not because they're loyal... Hahahaha...
And it's in NS, I see the true colours of humans - selfishness!!!
Comradeship?? Puiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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But it is true that some of your best friends come during the period of NS.
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you get all sorts lah... not fair to generalise... my former NS mates and i still keep in touch... there are outcasts and idiots who sabo people before in my former unit too, but life's like that... imperfect.Originally posted by fugue:But think of it, lack of money also causes alot of problems if you read the newspapers...
Some people didn't migrate because they have not enough money to leave Singapore. Not because they're loyal... Hahahaha...
And it's in NS, I see the true colours of humans - selfishness!!!
Comradeship?? Puiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in the same way, there were also those who stood by me and helped me when i got into trouble and helped covered my arse when others were trying to sabo me. there was nothing to gain from doing this, only goodwill and friendship. thats what friendship is about man...
selfish people are everywhere... not just in NS. you probably ended up in the wrong place, in the wrong time, with the wrong people. -
Originally posted by CX:
I believe this forums and topic is for everyone not just local guy that you mentioned to post their view and is not for insult from any uncivilised individual who think without brain. Review your own message and try to notice your own fault. As an outsider, i am posting my view regarding the topic from a broader view rather than being conscripted. Whether it has anything to do with national norm, it does not matter.
not happy? i'm happy here... i'm just not happy with the likes of ungrateful and shallow individuals like u.
get this straight... u [b]work here... i don't care what u do, u probably work hard for your money, but do have some respect for our national norms.
if a local guy says he hates NS, then at least he's entitled to that opinion cos he's been through it... the people complain when they're in it... once out of it, we kinda think its not such a bad idea upon hindsight. it forges an imagined community, a shared experience.
it is just plain insensitive of u to say something like that as a guest in this country.
or is that so hard for a mercenary foreign talent to understand? farked up third world individual... u're no difference from the closed-minded no-u-turn individual here... the only difference is, u're cheaper to employ.
[/b]
Fact remains that 2.5 years have to be committed for local to do NS and not for others. Maybe you guys like to think in the cage and find that since everyone in the cage is doing the same thing, it is hence fine. But if you care to look around, you would find that not everyone who want to live in singapore need to waste time doing NS.
As for me cheaper to employ? I guess you are really living in the cage. Find out more before you assume that the salary of foreign talent is lower than the local's. -
I agree with you here that money is not everything in this world but without it, i think you will have problem with your daily life. Of course i agree, fellowship, friendship, relationship and comradeship can never be bought but have to take time to nuture. I hope you are not implying only NS can help an individual to nuture all this. Even CX had recognised that NS has no monopoly in helping an individual to grow in these fields. Stop glorifying it as if it is the only mean to make a guy grow.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Money is not everything in this world. If that is the only thing in your mind, you have NO life.
Money can never buy the fellowship and friendship you gain in NS.It can never buy the person to person relationship.True, it is tough, but it is never a burden. Whats good about having so much money when you don't know how to apreciate the true value of comradeship?
If you don't want NS, why don't you go back to where you came from, and set up a buisness there? Why come here the first place? Why go through all these trouble?
If you can't commit, then please, don't commit. Give up your citizenship for all i care.
As for asking me to go back to where i came from, i guess you need to analyse your limitation. If i am not mistaken, FT are welcomed here by your government even if they don want to do NS. If the government conscript them instead, i don't think anyone would come here in the first place. As for citizenship? who would appreciate? I don have it in the first place cos i m just a PR. I guess PR status worth more than citizen status in the following sense. By converting to sg citizenship, we have to give up our own citizenship and land our next generation in conscription. Which idiot would do that? -
Originally posted by fugue:But think of it, lack of money also causes alot of problems if you read the newspapers...
Some people didn't migrate because they have not enough money to leave Singapore. Not because they're loyal... Hahahaha...
And it's in NS, I see the true colours of humans - selfishness!!!
Comradeship?? Puiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
In NS, you learn lots of things.
I think you have learnt something, from your quote I read. -
Of course you are not cheap to employ. One thing that is absolutely, certainly, definitely, for sure, is that the place you originate from was unable to offer you the same perks you are getting now and hence that's why you are here. You do have your right to your own view that NS is bad. In the same context, for us who had gone through NS, there will be a number of us who feel that NS is necessary. For without NS to safeguard the nation's sovereignty, the notion of politically stable and safe nation would not exist for foreign investments. And with that, there will be no company to employ someone of your "obvious hidden talent".Originally posted by MYPR:I believe this forums and topic is for everyone not just local guy that you mentioned to post their view and is not for insult from any uncivilised individual who think without brain. Review your own message and try to notice your own fault. As an outsider, i am posting my view regarding the topic from a broader view rather than being conscripted. Whether it has anything to do with national norm, it does not matter.
Fact remains that 2.5 years have to be committed for local to do NS and not for others. Maybe you guys like to think in the cage and find that since everyone in the cage is doing the same thing, it is hence fine. But if you care to look around, you would find that not everyone who want to live in singapore need to waste time doing NS.
As for me cheaper to employ? I guess you are really living in the cage. Find out more before you assume that the salary of foreign talent is lower than the local's.
True friendship does take time and the right environment to nuture and grow. However to us who have been through NS, true friendship is very commonly forged by the common training, s.h.i.t and grind that we went through. Should there be a war, most of us will trust our mates to fight for us so that the person next to us can go home to his family. For you, it will be pathetic that there is no one to do that for you. You might have the means to flee overseas but at the end of the day, you will not know what is truly a home, a country we call our own. For us, home is something precious, belongs to us and no one else, and we will do our utmost to protect it. And NS regardless if it is a blessing or bane, is the tool we will use to achieve that.
PR to you is precious but that's only applicable to people with your level of mentality. To most of us, local born and bred Singaporean, our country is precious to us and hence all the more most of us will discharge our national service duty without a doubt.
There is no need for you to go back to where you came from. The fact remains that you have no place which you can look upon as something worth protecting is enough to haunt you for the rest of your life.
Lastly, perhaps you are the one that is living in Lala land. Once we have the know how on the things we can exploit from FT, it is sayonara to you.
In the meantime, enjoy your stay and occasionally tune in to what the pigs are saying across the straits. Makes you wonder why it is Singapore, and not the plentiful-palm-oil-no-one-wants swine country up north, that can offer you this present opportunity. -
I guess this statement involves racism which i will not comment. It's getting too politic as well. Whichever government is better, that's none of my business. Money is my business. As mentioned b4, singapore does not have monopoly for providing good opportunity. There is no need to be arrogantOriginally posted by mfscrewu:Of course you are not cheap to employ. One thing that is absolutely, certainly, definitely, for sure, is that the place you originate from was unable to offer you the same perks you are getting now and hence that's why you are here. You do have your right to your own view that NS is bad. In the same context, for us who had gone through NS, there will be a number of us who feel that NS is necessary. For without NS to safeguard the nation's sovereignty, the notion of politically stable and safe nation would not exist for foreign investments. And with that, there will be no company to employ someone of your "obvious hidden talent".
[/quote]
Absolutely true that the place i originate from was unable to offer me the same perks, but in the same case living costs are cheaper than in singapore. That is why we earn from singapore but spent at home, get it? As for NS, that term only applied to singapore and not for most. Please take note that singapore is not the only or the first listed nation for foreign investments. Everywhere else in the world can be your desirable work place not just singapore. E.g. my cousin is working in USA and earning big buck to spent at home.
There is no need for you to go back to where you came from. The fact remains that you have no place which you can look upon as something worth protecting is enough to haunt you for the rest of your life.
Fact? Or your mistake of assumption made. It seem that you like to made assumption and treat it as facts
Lastly, perhaps you are the one that is living in Lala land. Once we have the know how on the things we can exploit from FT, it is sayonara to you.
Well, That would be admirable but provided you are able to exploit the know how from FT first. It seem that the unemployed on the street are mostly local. Maybe that's why i don't have any singaporean colleague. I wonder how my know how is going to be exploit? I m providing facts and not being arrogant.
[quote]
In the meantime, enjoy your stay and occasionally tune in to what the pigs are saying across the straits. Makes you wonder why it is Singapore, and not the plentiful-palm-oil-no-one-wants swine country up north, that can offer you this present opportunity. -
Originally posted by MYPR:
mind u, i am rather insulted by your "better-than-thou" attitude.
I believe this forums and topic is for everyone not just local guy that you mentioned to post their view and is not for insult from any uncivilised individual who think without brain. Review your own message and try to notice your own fault. As an outsider, i am posting my view regarding the topic from a broader view rather than being conscripted. Whether it has anything to do with national norm, it does not matter.
broader view? u're just speaking from your own prejudices. what's so broad or open about that?
two years of our precious time is indeed quite a pity, but when u're born here and u live here, u learn that citizenship has its privileges and its duties.
which country do YOU know of that allows its citizens perks without pain? of course i take offence at your "free-loader" mentality!Fact remains that 2.5 years have to be committed for local to do NS and not for others. Maybe you guys like to think in the cage and find that since everyone in the cage is doing the same thing, it is hence fine. But if you care to look around, you would find that not everyone who want to live in singapore need to waste time doing NS.
true. PR status gives u the privilege of residence without having to serve the duties of citizens. but thats only because we fully EXPECT u to leave once u're done. immigrants contribute in many ways to the economy, whether its an indian digging a ditch and earning $15 dollars a day or a wheeling-dealing-professional making tons of money.
there's no hard feelings when u pack up and leave. thats why we don't give a crap if u do NS or not. u're a sojourner.
we'ld prefer if those who do decide to stay for good have properly prepared themselves mentally to its conditions.As for me cheaper to employ? I guess you are really living in the cage. Find out more before you assume that the salary of foreign talent is lower than the local's.
yes... and i do wonder if all that money is worth it... you're just another arrogant, whiny foreigner talking his head off on issues u do not fully understand.
so why don't u just thank God for this opportunity u found in a little island one degree off the equator and stop insulting the hosts that so graciously took u in. -
Originally posted by MYPR:
don't quote me out of context. i believe that every society, and every individual will find his/her way to satisfy their social "self"... through participation in group activities, interaction with acquaintances, etc, etc.
I agree with you here that money is not everything in this world but without it, i think you will have problem with your daily life. Of course i agree, fellowship, friendship, relationship and comradeship can never be bought but have to take time to nuture. I hope you are not implying only NS can help an individual to nuture all this. Even CX had recognised that NS has no monopoly in helping an individual to grow in these fields. Stop glorifying it as if it is the only mean to make a guy grow.
NS, for all things we do not like about it, was there for us to help us grow, and make lasting friends. i see no wrong in glorifying in the experience because for all its shortcomings and limitations, it is OUR shared experience, OUR identity.
i don't care if u about learnt male comradeship in a gay club in san francisco, if u've got friends who agree that its a positive common experience, so be it. i'm not gonna comment on that because i simply don't know anything about it.As for asking me to go back to where i came from, i guess you need to analyse your limitation. If i am not mistaken, FT are welcomed here by your government even if they don want to do NS. If the government conscript them instead, i don't think anyone would come here in the first place.
read above post. we don't care if u serve or not. there are those who will commit even if free-loaders like you do not.As for citizenship? who would appreciate? I don have it in the first place cos i m just a PR. I guess PR status worth more than citizen status in the following sense. By converting to sg citizenship, we have to give up our own citizenship and land our next generation in conscription. Which idiot would do that?
ha ha... how dare u comment on without first finding out the facts...
Under the Enlistment Act, all male Singapore Citizens and Permanent Residents (PRs) are liable for National Service (NS) upon reaching 16 ½ years old. They are required to serve 2 or 2 ½ years of full-time National Service (NSF), followed by 40 days of Operationally Ready National Service (NS) per year till the age of 50 years (for officers) or 40 years (for other ranks).
source: http://app.ica.gov.sg/serv_pr/per_res/app_for_pr.asp
and i would hesitate to call anybody an "idiot"... but i will call u an opportunistic scum cos thats what u profess yourself to be anyway.
so scum, what size helmet does your kid wear? the only alternative is to ship him away at great expense before he turns 16 ½ ... there aren't many loopholes in the system. u can try to find them. have fun. -
Of course I get it, earn big bucks elsewhere and spend at home typical "hidden brain" like you. Do you think we are really that hard up for that few bucks that you have in your pocket? Just think the company you are working has already contributed to our economy, and hence you can keep your spare change (i.e your big bucks).Originally posted by MYPR:Absolutely true that the place i originate from was unable to offer me the same perks, but in the same case living costs are cheaper than in singapore. That is why we earn from singapore but spent at home, get it? As for NS, that term only applied to singapore and not for most. Please take note that singapore is not the only or the first listed nation for foreign investments. Everywhere else in the world can be your desirable work place not just singapore. E.g. my cousin is working in USA and earning big buck to spent at home.
As for NS, of course it is Singapore I was talking about. Never in my reply did I state any other countries. Talk about assumptions, maybe you are the one who is not only making assumptions but jumping into conclusions as well. Definitely it is true that other countries perhaps minus plentiful-palm-oil-no-one-wants swine land is a desirable work place. However, what makes them so desirable? That's the crux of this discussion. It is exactly what makes them so desirable that we are talkling about here. Have you wondered what makes us one of the desirable places to live and work in? With your "big" talent isn't it amazing that you have not figured out? Really felt sorry for your company employing you, kind of a waste of money? Oh, by the way, your cousin working in USA? Do you know that USA has BIG ARMY, BIG NAVY, BIG AIRFORCE and let's not forget BIG GUNS to probably decimate your Lala land up north? What does this tell us? A capable armed force is part of the equation to a stable political state so as to induce (i.e. promote, encourage etc) foreign investments. Foreign investments generate wealth to a country and create job opportunities which is why you are here and not feeding pigs or plucking coconut or harvesting palm oil to barter in the market (get the pun?). As USA have a large population and most of her armed forces personnel are volunteers there is no need for her to resort to conscription. For Singapore with a limited population, we have to conscript to maintain a capable deterence force. And if conscription is not useful, then why are countries like Israel, Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea etc doing that? Oh before I forget, wild boar country up north is also introducing NS soon isn't it? Really pathetic, apart from being copycats, it (not she as wild boar is an animal) aren't capable of any other things.
Hmm...are you sure we don't know how to exploit you? If we don't know, then why are you putting in so many hours of work and in turn producing good results, good returns for our economy? Duh?! Just think we are giving you a slightly bigger peanut, and we get a "professional" haplorhine primate to work for us. I mean that's a bargain , isn't it? You don't have Singaporean colleagues? That's because we are rather busy engaging in feeding the animals which we are exploiting. Of course you are providing facts, I don't deny this. Arrogant...hmm..yes, you are very arrogant. Otherwise, why did you state in your earlier post that you are so "capable", owned your car, announcing your assets, not cheap to employ...blah..blah..blah. Of course in Singapore, most of the unemployed are local. If you go to back to palm-tree-that-you-think-paradise, then most of the unemployed are the citizens there. Same for US, UK etc...where most of the unemployed are their citizens. Duh?! Peanut logic. "Sign" that's what you get when you feed the primates.Originally posted by MYPR:Well, That would be admirable but provided you are able to exploit the know how from FT first. It seem that the unemployed on the street are mostly local. Maybe that's why i don't have any singaporean colleague. I wonder how my know how is going to be exploit? I m providing facts and not being arrogant.
Singapore does indeed don't have the monopoly for providing good opportunity, but it is one of them. I am not being arrogant...I am just providing facts (Mimicking MYPR). Hmm..sounds familiar, where have I heard this before?! Money is your business, good for you. Work harder, boost our economy. And don't forget your spare change. So where does Mudland stand?Originally posted by MYPR:I guess this statement involves racism which i will not comment. It's getting too politic as well. Whichever government is better, that's none of my business. Money is my business. As mentioned b4, singapore does not have monopoly for providing good opportunity. There is no need to be arrogant -
i am sad to c how our youngster think abt national service. if war really break out i will definitely take up the rifle to fight, nobody gonna protect u. yes, the american may sent their army here to fight, but oni for their own interest...their bilions n billons dollars of investment here.
there is nothing wrong in area cleaning, hv u ever take over a old camp left over my someone, no area cleaning was done for mths or yrs. u can c mosquitoes flying, biting u everywhere when cleaning...oso dead cats n dogs...rots with worms clawing...
even when u go to war u still need area cleaning b4 leaving the place so that the emeny wont now u r here b4 -
Gents/
Just a little background before I start. I am 30 years old, still a young chap and I ORDed back in 97 as a LTA, so I am one of your so-called screwed-up oxcifer currently posted to one of the reserve battalion in 3rd Div.
It seems that in every single forum, there will be people complaining about having to serve NS. However, this single discussion thread really made me laugh. Imagine, spending all that effort and time from your work that allows you to bring home the bacon to argue so passionately over something as elementary as area-cleaning??
I don't know, but I have been brought up without a maid. So seriously, I don't know what it is like not having to clean up after my own mess. It has always been a case of after you shit, if you left stains in the toilet bowl, you're responsible for cleaning the toilet bowl. After eating, you're responsible for cleaning your own plates. I don't know, perhaps nowadays all NS boys have their personal maids to do all their cleaning up for them, but for my peers and me, we really don't enjoy the luxury of having a paid maid to pamper us.
So, what is all this argument about area-cleaning being part of regimentation, the ability to obey orders or even complaints about the government being responsible for making sure that the bunks are clean for the soldiers???? I am totally confused or maybe I am just way too bloody stupid to understand the arguments. You stay in a place, you mess it up, you clean it up. Simple logic. Maybe some people are right by saying that since the government owns the place, then they should be responsible for cleaning it up. However, lets take an analogy. We stay in HDB flats. We don't own the HDB flats, we merely lease it from the government for 99 years at ridiculous prices. So does that mean the government has the obligation to clean our toilet bowls after we take a crap????
Perhaps maids is an integral part of every young Singaporean's life now. Perhaps that explains why when I went back to ICT, I was so shocked when I realised I can simply dump my plate in the sink and let an old auntie wash. Perhaps that also explains why I was so shocked when I realise that when the rain-pour is too heavy, exercise gets cut immediately. I don't know what all that cat 1 to cat 3 rain stands for, all I know is that war don't end when it rains.
Perhaps we should just have an entire legion of domestic maids to help us clean our butts when we shit, or better still, to follow us into the field and carry our full packs. That way, we can concentrate on being soldiers and obeying orders and fight, or even better, that is the best way to prevent rape, by having an entire battalion of maids following the active battalion. 1 is to 1 Relative Screwing Power. Hmmmm, maybe I can get a WITS reward by suggesting that. After all, it is so apparent from so many discussions that our new generation soldiers are so used to having maids clean up after them that we should really continue that culture.
I agree totally with so many of you here that f--ked-up oxcifers like me are totally without personal hygiene and we live like pigs. We should be responsible for cleaning all the toilets, all the bunk areas and have 10 hours stand-by universe. Perhaps then in that case, somebody can take over us when we have to leave our projects halfway at work and inprocess for reservist a week earlier than the men and specialists and then outprocess only after all the men has done so and to stay for debriefing etc etc. Or perhaps, somebody can take over me while I stay up until late at night doing ops planning while the men are sleeping soundly.
Of course, I'm talking like a f--k up reservist oxcifer. So, please ignore my crap ok.
Cheers -
G'day MYPR,
I assume that you're a Malaysian PR from your nick. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I agree totally with you that everyone in this world has the right to voice their opinion as and when they want to. It is an integral part of basic human rights.
I agree totally with your viewpoint that you're merely stating the opportunity costs of having to serve NS.
Apparently our government can see talent in you, which perhaps is why they gave you the PR. Perhaps also this is why you deem our government stupid by wanting to give PR away like nobody's business.
Hence, in a way, can you blame Singaporeans for having grouse against foreign talents? Especially those who gain PR with no intention of treating this little dot as home? You raise the issue of the heavy opportunity costs in having to serve NS, while foreign talents or expats like your good self is able to make good money and invest it back at home. However, I believe that you manage to achieve that by working in companies who invested in Singapore because it is a stable place protected by a strong defence force manned by Singaporean men who absorbed this huge opportunity costs.
So often, we see PRs stating that all they want to do is make money and get out of Singapore. Best of all, I overheard a group of PRC PR recently commenting that the Singapore Government is so stupid to believe that they are actually in Singapore for the long-haul. Hence, can any PR blame Singaporeans for having a grudge against foreign talents????
I admit, Singapore cannot survive without a constant influx of talents. Our population is too small to produce a sustainable talent pool and hence we have to continue to attract foreign talent. What I am totally against is the absolute lack of gratitude for the opportunities that our country provided and the protection that people like me and so many other NSmen and NSF provides for these talents by sacrificing our opportunity costs.
Respect others before you ask to be respected. Rubbing salt into the wounds when one knows very well that Singaporean males are already behind the ratrace due to their NS obligation will definitely draw anger.
Why rub more salt MYPR??? Is it absolutely necessary to do so in a public forum knowing very well that this is a topic that bothers many Singaporean male? Or are you just having fun by insulting the sacrifices that locals have made for you so that you can have that nice house and car back in your home country???
Why?? -
As for my nick, it just stands for My PR. The rest is not important. I might not even be a PR. Who knows?Originally posted by Soh:G'day MYPR,
I assume that you're a Malaysian PR from your nick. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I agree totally with you that everyone in this world has the right to voice their opinion as and when they want to. It is an integral part of basic human rights.
I agree totally with your viewpoint that you're merely stating the opportunity costs of having to serve NS.
Apparently our government can see talent in you, which perhaps is why they gave you the PR. Perhaps also this is why you deem our government stupid by wanting to give PR away like nobody's business.
Hence, in a way, can you blame Singaporeans for having grouse against foreign talents? Especially those who gain PR with no intention of treating this little dot as home? You raise the issue of the heavy opportunity costs in having to serve NS, while foreign talents or expats like your good self is able to make good money and invest it back at home. However, I believe that you manage to achieve that by working in companies who invested in Singapore because it is a stable place protected by a strong defence force manned by Singaporean men who absorbed this huge opportunity costs.
So often, we see PRs stating that all they want to do is make money and get out of Singapore. Best of all, I overheard a group of PRC PR recently commenting that the Singapore Government is so stupid to believe that they are actually in Singapore for the long-haul. Hence, can any PR blame Singaporeans for having a grudge against foreign talents????
I admit, Singapore cannot survive without a constant influx of talents. Our population is too small to produce a sustainable talent pool and hence we have to continue to attract foreign talent. What I am totally against is the absolute lack of gratitude for the opportunities that our country provided and the protection that people like me and so many other NSmen and NSF provides for these talents by sacrificing our opportunity costs.
Respect others before you ask to be respected. Rubbing salt into the wounds when one knows very well that Singaporean males are already behind the ratrace due to their NS obligation will definitely draw anger.
Why rub more salt MYPR??? Is it absolutely necessary to do so in a public forum knowing very well that this is a topic that bothers many Singaporean male? Or are you just having fun by insulting the sacrifices that locals have made for you so that you can have that nice house and car back in your home country???
Why??
I am glad that you can recognise everyone has the right to voice their opinion and agree with my viewpoint that i am merely stating the opportunity costs of having to serve NS.
As for the government, i do not think they are stupid. In fact, they are the smartest of all. On one hand, they give out more PRs status to attract more FT to stay to be taxed and make them rich, on the other hand, they conscript the local to work cheaply for them and label it NS unlike most other country. Well, guess you are right, the local male really made the sacrifice for the sake of the few rich and best of all, we have people praising and glorifying NS. For what, i do not know or care of course.
As for why, I guess the truth always hurt. If the truths hurt, would you prefer lies to float around? Well, if so, i can start praising NS for goodness sake but of course i myself will not be stupid enuff to be slave for the government for a pink IC when others can get a similar one freely. -
After reading all the reply, i guess only soh's msg worth replying.
The rest of you guys should analyze your own message instead. It make me wonder how old are you guys.
As for CX, i find there's a need to reply him with some facts.
Do you think my kid will wear the singapore's helmet when he will be borned in other country? And, do you think i will settle down in singapore for long instead so that my kid need to wear the singapore's helmet?Originally posted by CX:ha ha... how dare u comment on without first finding out the facts...
Under the Enlistment Act, [b]all male Singapore Citizens and Permanent Residents (PRs) are liable for National Service (NS) upon reaching 16 ½ years old. They are required to serve 2 or 2 ½ years of full-time National Service (NSF), followed by 40 days of Operationally Ready National Service (NS) per year till the age of 50 years (for officers) or 40 years (for other ranks).
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Poor thing, after 2 ½ years of full-time National Service, that's not the end yet. Do you think foreigner will be stupid enuff not to know this and apply for PR just b4 they are 16 ½ years old?
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and i would hesitate to call anybody an "idiot"... but i will call u an opportunistic scum cos thats what u profess yourself to be anyway.
so scum, what size helmet does your kid wear? the only alternative is to ship him away at great expense before he turns 16 ½ ... there aren't many loopholes in the system. u can try to find them. have fun. -
MYPR may be actually telling the truth in how most of the PRs that come into Singapore are feeling. That our dear government invite them to just make money.
I for one can not see any way that our PAP is actually welcoming them to take the next step .. citizenship. As a PR, they have the lion share of all the benefits and not much of the liabilities.
As a matter of discussion, are there real tangible benfits that Citizens have over PRs that make it worthwhile to take the next step? -
When one walk down any road, one will encounter small pebbles that get swept away.
One will encounter stones that keep rolling and ground to pebbles to be swept away too.
Then, you will also encounter some bigger stones or rocks or boulders, that are brought by nature, or by human effort to help build "the Road", and become a foundation for a beautiful and strong Road for all to travel.
It takes all kinds and types for this Road, it depends on the vision as to where this Road will lead us, and if we share a common vision as to the destination. -
Big deal about your nick. Just because someone makes an assumption, and you are so anxious to rebutt. Tsk, tsk at the end, it only serves to bring more attention to who you really are. Yeah, just like you might not even be what you said you are.Originally posted by MYPR:As for my nick, it just stands for My PR. The rest is not important. I might not even be a PR. Who knows?
Of course you are entitled to your own view, but so do most of us. But there is a thin line between stating your viewpoint and insulting NS. Maybe you should watch where your viewpoint leans towards next time. So what if you spend 2 years to get a degree. Does that make you extremely smart? Nope you are not. Most local polygrad that goes overseas get their degree in 2 years and some even went on to get their PhD in another 3. And guess what, they too serve their NS. Opportunity cost...to you maybe. To us, it might not be. The opportunity cost to you is the fact that you never been through NS and not able to gain the sense of belonging and the pride of defending your homeland and what you believe in. Oops, maybe this might not make sense to you since money is your only business. At the end of the day, all you need realise that money is not everything is when those surrounding you abandon you because you have run out of money. Then, what do you have left?Originally posted by MYPR:I am glad that you can recognise everyone has the right to voice their opinion and agree with my viewpoint that i am merely stating the opportunity costs of having to serve NS.
Most of us serve NS because there is a need to. Conscripting the locals to serve NS is not a means of working cheaply for the government. This is only to instil the sense of belonging and the responsibility to protect the homeland and be part of the defence system. And most of us recognise the responsibility of being a citizen here. Unlike you, who can't even look upon the place where you eventually end up, as a country which you will be proud of because, you were never a part of it to begin with. For you, where there’s money, where you will be. So will your “presumed” friends who will only be with you when you have money. For us, at least we have our NS mates who will stick through thick and thin with us regardless of our wealth. If you do not care, why join the thread in the first place? Was it because you are simply jealous that people have something to praise about but not you? This just goes to show the dubious credibility of your contribution to this forum.Originally posted by MYPR:As for the government, i do not think they are stupid. In fact, they are the smartest of all. On one hand, they give out more PRs status to attract more FT to stay to be taxed and make them rich, on the other hand, they conscript the local to work cheaply for them and label it NS unlike most other country. Well, guess you are right, the local male really made the sacrifice for the sake of the few rich and best of all, we have people praising and glorifying NS. For what, i do not know or care of course.
Of course the truth always hurt. And a couple of us did prick you in the place where you hurt most. You are definitely not a slave for the government, but you are definitely the foolish one to stay and help Singapore's economy gets better. Ouch!!Originally posted by MYPR:As for why, I guess the truth always hurt. If the truths hurt, would you prefer lies to float around? Well, if so, i can start praising NS for goodness sake but of course i myself will not be stupid enuff to be slave for the government for a pink IC when others can get a similar one freely.
Maybe, YOU SHOULD ANALYSE WHAT YOU SAID SO FAR. Our age has absolutely no bearing on this discussion. It is not that you find it not worth your while in rebutting us, it is just that the fact most of us here can contradict what you say and make you look not like a fool but THE FOOL . Makes me wonder are you OLD AND SENILE or YOUNG AND STUPID.Originally posted by MYPR:After reading all the reply, i guess only soh's msg worth replying.
The rest of you guys should analyze your own message instead. It make me wonder how old are you guys.
As for CX, i find there's a need to reply him with some facts.
Do you think my kid will wear the singapore's helmet when he will be borned in other country? And, do you think i will settle down in singapore for long instead so that my kid need to wear the singapore's helmet?
As for your kid wearing our helmet, don't count your chicken before they hatch. Born somewhere else? Who knows he might end up being a conscript in that ‘somewhere else’. And he’ll come home praising and glorifying NS! Poor little MYPR junior, perhaps, you’ll end up measuring his helmet size. So doesn't that mean at the end of the day, you cannot call the place you originated from, your home. Too bad for you, you pathetic little man - dying somewhere else. -
Wondering why foreigners are so touchy about National Service, it's a good way to get your son some discipline isn't it?
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You can know the answer when you see a long queue of FT getting PRs instead of getting citizenship.Originally posted by kenhor:MYPR may be actually telling the truth in how most of the PRs that come into Singapore are feeling. That our dear government invite them to just make money.
I for one can not see any way that our PAP is actually welcoming them to take the next step .. citizenship. As a PR, they have the lion share of all the benefits and not much of the liabilities.
As a matter of discussion, are there real tangible benfits that Citizens have over PRs that make it worthwhile to take the next step? -
Thats not the answer .. thats only the question.