so sad...
-
ever since we gave the government a madatory vote in the last election(after PM goh request n NSS giveaway) it seems like the pappies is getting more n more yaya imho.
price kept increasing despite recession n paycut. HSL getting more n more arrogant in his public speech. GCT was lauffing at a fellow sillyporeans who break his quarantine order. mind you he n his fellow colleages were lauffing at the very pple who voted for them!!
wat's happening wif these guys? is our society evolving into dictatorship? total authority rules? or do we still declare our country as democracy like wad our pledge suggest?]]
and wad can we the citizens do? pledge ourselves as one united pple?
or do the government think we are just shallow pple. give some Nss n ERS to justify some price hikes n policy changes?do they think majority of the voters does not even noe basic mathematics? Or rather they took adv of poor men's situation (give them some upfront cash when they need $$to exchange for some unwarranted terms)
seriously there's nothing we can do... so sad. i will be making my big move soon. GLuck pple..think harder for ur next election. -
When the people in power see the normal Joe Average and Jane Ordinary as their personal chattel, it is time for a change. However, most are resistent to change.
There is also a question of who in their place? Those who really care for Joe and Jane are few and far between... there's the niceguy, CST. However, he's due for retirement. There's also LTK, and I do hope he'll not become bitter and angry like his predecessor... old "Lion-face" lost the plot a long time ago and it became a personal crusade against his hated nemesis that he could no longer distinguish the good people from the charlatans.
Then, there are the aforementioned charlatans... they would not hesitate to sell their own sisters down the river if they thought that could buy them a little bit of political advantage...
The incumbents are mostly people born with platinum spoons stuck up their behinds, or the "elite".. they have been made to feel that they are better than Joe and Jane so much they start to believe the hype. In that way, they are divorced from reality and become self-serving.
I understand your point of view, Bliss. In a few years, I would do the same with a heavy heart. This is my homeland. However, if the head of your family starts treating you like a number and someone to take advantage of, to leech dry, then it's time to move out and strike out on your own... it is heartbreaking but in the long run, it's the only way, else your own progeny will suffer worse than you did.
I have written this before:
In the past, when I was young and naive, I thought my country would love me as much as I loved it. Then I grew up and learnt practicality, I just wanted to work hard for my fair share of the pie. After being financially and politically sodomised, I didn't want my pie to be ripped from my mouth and told to like it. Now, older, hopefully, wiser and very much more cynical, I do not want my progeny to face this.
Flame me for all you want, many feel this way.
Alas... -
u noe wad?!?!!
ur just another bunch of moronic "elites" tho not exactly on the same side of our government,cuz u been supressed by another bunch of donkey pappies. u think and speak so unlike the commoners.
at least the pappies noe how to speak the commoners' language.
i supposed u do add cow dung while doing fake flower arranging??
i supposed ur a pretty self centered person? gogo far away... this place will be better w/o u LoL -
No Bliss, I don't do flower-arranging... neither am I into scat...
Neither am I an "elite"... is it so bad that one writes in proper English? Or am I to be an "elite" because I was brought up by a pair of English teachers?
As for the commoners, I may be an uncommon commoner? Who knows? Look around... I may have been "surpressed" but at least I'm going to find something better for my progeny...
Guess what? It's a lot easier staying here and continue to be surpressed.. some would rather the surpression rather than do some thinking for themselves. Think.. why the site of talkingcock is such a riot? It is because most of it is true, only with a PJ O'Rourke-type spin on it with local flavour.
Please see beyond the facade... "commoners' language" and the content are different things. What's the point of speaking in "commoners' language" when they are all a spin?
In the end, it's all chiow wey..
Talk's cheap...
BTW, talking about political stuff, can you see a crack in the PAP? It sure as hell looks like there are 2 factions now vying for power.
Country or Party first? Or to some of them, there is no difference? Maybe, therein is the root of all the problems.Originally posted by BLissBLess:u noe wad?!?!!
ur just another bunch of moronic "elites" tho not exactly on the same side of our government,cuz u been supressed by another bunch of donkey pappies. u think and speak so unlike the commoners.
at least the pappies noe how to speak the commoners' language.
i supposed u do add cow dung while doing fake flower arranging??
i supposed ur a pretty self centered person? gogo far away... this place will be better w/o u LoL -
thru the eye of the tornado do i see ur guiding light , ur progency.
from a distance , could i only decipher a mist. as i tried to take a step closer,there is these forces pushing me away.
could these forces be the perfect english ?or just some iritating winds?
was the structure philosophical or was it a tad too british or yankees.
do i hate my english teacher? or do i hate the MOE?or maybe i should throw my tantrums and a little vengeance at the Pap.
i could try and i could fly to the eye of the storm.
arrgghh...the eye of the storm.
brothers in arms,sisters in hands,who would wanna follow me to the eyes of the storm.
sadly they whispered to my failing ears, boh si kan lar.
was it a blessing or was it a mistake tat they might miss out in the eye of the storm?
suddenly all of them started to sang in chorus
"i dun wanna hold ur hands...i dun wanna hold ur hands" -
Originally posted by BLissBLess:
they've always been yaya... u dunno your political history.
[b]ever since we gave the government a madatory vote in the last election(after PM goh request n NSS giveaway) it seems like the pappies is getting more n more yaya imho.price kept increasing despite recession n paycut. HSL getting more n more arrogant in his public speech. GCT was lauffing at a fellow sillyporeans who break his quarantine order. mind you he n his fellow colleages were lauffing at the very pple who voted for them!!
wah... then i suppose we should applaud the hero who broke his quarantine order to drink beer then?
please lah... shall we empty changi prison then? since they all are potential voters anyway what... and Sg has got one of the highest rate of people in prisons in the world u know...wat's happening wif these guys? is our society evolving into dictatorship? total authority rules? or do we still declare our country as democracy like wad our pledge suggest?
ha ha... thats what u get when u confuse political rhetoric for actual policy...and wad can we the citizens do? pledge ourselves as one united pple?
its a time tested strategy... give them bread, and circus... then they'll gwai gwai take any nonsense u throw at them...
or do the government think we are just shallow pple. give some Nss n ERS to justify some price hikes n policy changes?do they think majority of the voters does not even noe basic mathematics? Or rather they took adv of poor men's situation (give them some upfront cash when they need $$to exchange for some unwarranted terms)seriously there's nothing we can do... so sad. i will be making my big move soon. GLuck pple..think harder for ur next election
what's there to think? its not as if u'll actually get to vote
my bet is that your GRC will probably walk-over again... unless u're living in an opposition ward of course
most of us lost our innocence long ago... its kinda dumb to be under those illusions when all the signs point to the contrary. i for one, believe that there's more to life than politics... -
Originally posted by BLissBLess:
they've always been yaya... u dunno your political history.
[b]ever since we gave the government a madatory vote in the last election(after PM goh request n NSS giveaway) it seems like the pappies is getting more n more yaya imho.price kept increasing despite recession n paycut. HSL getting more n more arrogant in his public speech. GCT was lauffing at a fellow sillyporeans who break his quarantine order. mind you he n his fellow colleages were lauffing at the very pple who voted for them!!
wah... then i suppose we should applaud the hero who broke his quarantine order to drink beer then?
please lah... shall we empty changi prison then? since they all are potential voters anyway what... and Sg has got one of the highest rate of people in prisons in the world u know...wat's happening wif these guys? is our society evolving into dictatorship? total authority rules? or do we still declare our country as democracy like wad our pledge suggest?
ha ha... thats what u get when u confuse political rhetoric for actual policy...and wad can we the citizens do? pledge ourselves as one united pple?
its a time tested strategy... give them bread, and circus... then they'll gwai gwai take any nonsense u throw at them...
or do the government think we are just shallow pple. give some Nss n ERS to justify some price hikes n policy changes?do they think majority of the voters does not even noe basic mathematics? Or rather they took adv of poor men's situation (give them some upfront cash when they need $$to exchange for some unwarranted terms)seriously there's nothing we can do... so sad. i will be making my big move soon. GLuck pple..think harder for ur next election
what's there to think? its not as if u'll actually get to vote my bet is that your GRC will probably walk-over again... unless u're living in an opposition ward of course
most of us lost our innocence long ago... its kinda dumb to be under those illusions when all the signs point to the contrary. i for one, believe that there's more to life than politics... -
How perceptive that you should make this remark. It reminds me of the morning ST Headline that had GCT saying: "Don't push me, or I will dig my heels in deeper" - and the report went on to say that he will quit from the political scene at a time of his choosing.Originally posted by the Bear:BTW, talking about political stuff, can you see a crack in the PAP? It sure as hell looks like there are 2 factions now vying for power.
This had occurred sometime in 2000 or 2001.
Now I wonder who is pushing him to quit?
Country or Party first?
Country or Party first? Or to some of them, there is no difference? Maybe, therein is the root of all the problems.
I will add that for some it will read as Country or Party or My First Family ?
It is amazing that in the Singapore Political Scene, everyone's sincerity and comitment to Singapore is open to question, and that political opinion is the monopoly of the PAP Executive Committee - there is a difference between the Members of the Executive Committee and the General Party. -
Singapore politics will probably go the same way as the American's. Once the first generation is gone, there'd be different schools of thought and eventually split up into different parties. From what i know of history it seems inevitable.
it seems a common human tendency to regard what will not change in his/her life time or in the forseeable future will remain the same forever, from what i can see in Bliss and The Bear's posts.
Personally i have a dislike for such narrow minded people. You throw out big words and get all poetic but essentially make no sense. I can't make head or tail to what you're saying. Personally i think Singapore would do better without whiners like you two. You can't even demostrate a proper knowledge of the government like Atobe and make wild, groundless accusations. Acting all enlightened and so holy.
Too harsh a response? Lack of respect? Perhaps if you could show you have a firm knowledge of politics and history you might actually earn some. Meanwhile, good luck in finding a country that can accept your pretty poor command of English.
It is difficult Atobe to state too much political opinions against the first generations who had toiled so hard to make Singapore work. LKY appears to me to be the type that could crush opposing political opinions quite efficiently and mercilessly.
There is also a degree of respect within the party for the first generation so political opinions are hard to voice because there isn't much support for them. But once LKY and the old guard steps into the grave that would most likely change. -
Actually the First Generation Leaders (note the plural) have my respect for their ability to motivate the disparate ethnic communities of Singapore, and galvanize the peopleÂ’s will with such a strong focus to enable all that have achieved up to this day by ALL who are SINGAPOREANS..
There is a difference between these achievements being reached from the sufferings and sacrifices made by our grand-parents and parents, who made Singapore a HOME; and from the success of the MANAGERIAL effort of the First Generation Leaders.
The success story should be the story of ALL Singaporeans, and not just ONE single individual, who was given his place in history by his colleagues, who prefer that he take the front seat, while they did as much hard work at the back.
Neither should the success of Singapore be the reflection of the achievements of the singular effort of the Ruling Political Party, as without the support from the citizenry their efforts would have been fruitless.
Sadly, the success seems to have gotten into the head of the “Ruling Party” till they find it so difficult to accept that there can be better people to take over the reins, and that some prefer not to be involved in Politics.
Hence, the ridiculous political line that there is limited talent in Singapore, but yet in a population of 4 million, we have a single family that has so many talents to be in the seats of Politics and Government Commercial Interests – (see the post “Life in the Little Red Dot – In the Eye of the Storm”).
Yes, there is deep respect and admiration as one would give to an Elderly Aged Person, who have succeeded and led the “Singapore Family” to where we are today.
However, there is also the quiet deference given out of “respect” to the “muscle” behind the Aged Frame of Power that is perceived to be behind the “Throne”.
Sometimes it is difficult to discern where respect fades and fear begins. -
You guys forget something....
The COUNTRY is way way WAY more important than any loyalty to a party, person or family.
The same goes for the respect for a generation of leaders. It is insignificant compared to the importance of our Nation.
When the leader has done his part, and he cannot contribute but will only be a liability to the country (which is paramount and bigger than any other entity within the country), he MUST step down and slide into the background. See Churchill... he stepped up when his people needed someone like him, and when it was his time to step down and let others who can do better take the helm, he did.
When the citizenry of the country is treated like they do not matter by the very people elected to power, what happens? They are Ministers.. they are supposed to minister to the people, not the other way around. What has happened to "We, the people of Singapore"?
These basic principles of leadership never occurred to the present lea-duhs.. only a few have remembered. These lea-duhs who have forgotten what being Ministers are, are the very people who will lead the country. What are their loyalties? To the party, damn the people! Or to the dynasty, damn everything else!
Be afraid. I am afraid for my country.
If the country is better off without people like me who tell it like it is, then so be it... listen to pretty lies instead of ugly truths.
Never execute the messenger for bringing you bad news, beware the one who doesn't. -
I won't say much Atobe, because i totally agree with you. But humans always prefer heroes, who could remember the others who supported Lincoln ? What happened to the people that helped Lenin in establishing the Soviet Union? It is so much easier to say that one man made it happen than to give credit to the collective. Human nature is more to be blamed.
But sometimes, it still depends on the leader(Notice, no pural). If the leader is weak minded, it doesn't matter how good his followers are. Look at the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Liu Bei had his famous Five Tigers and have one of the greatest strategists in perhaps not only of that period but possibly in the world. But he lost, because he is by nature a weak minded man who can't speak up for himself, once he lost his generals he was nothing. Yet, it is the ruthless Cao Cao's Wei that in the end unified China.
I agree that in a population of 4 million talents are difficult to get. I've never regarded the majority in the PAP as talents. Talents to me is to be able to stand out, like the creator of Creative, LKY, Bill Gates..etc. I find the majority only competent enough to do their jobs, but not neccessarily talents. My respect is for the 1st generation that worked hard and fully deserved it, not to the rest. They have not proven themselves.
I think perhaps you judge too harshly Atobe. To the majority of the people, nothing is more important than the stability of the society. We can walk safely at night without fear, children do not have to shiver when they sleep or go around with their stomachs empty. We don't have to worry about students running around with guns racism, or organized syndicates( I mean the real organized ones, not those uncles with tattoos and singlets).
it is possible that we might have a better life with more political freedom. But at the same time, what is the price? Simply allowing political freedom will not solve all our problems and most probably cause more, if history is to be served as an example. This is a pandora's box. -
Look bear, considering your statements it is very difficult to believe you're most likely older than me and supposedly more educated.
You're an idealist, believing only you or selected people are enlightened and know the truth. There is respect for the first generations because they are doing their job and doing it well. It IS significant to the importance of the nation.When the leader has done his part, and he cannot contribute but will only be a liability to the country
This statement is extremely laughable. So to you, leaders are disposable resources? Once used you dump em? They are there because they are intelligent and can inspire. That is not something that can easily dwindle with age. If they can still make good decisons, i would very well make sure they stay there.
And Churchill was VOTED out of office, he didn't step down. I remembered this very vividly. It was very funny to me at the time that the people can so easily forget the man who led them against Nazi Germany. Churchill was also constantly ridiculed by his fellow politicians.
Your next two paragraphs well, i cannot believe there can really be such naviety in a person who is more educated and older than i am. I wonder if i should give you a fraction of the respect i gave Atobe, even if i don't share the same views as he.
Alright, what DO you want Bear? You complain, you whin but you do not state exactly what you want. Why are the ministers not doing their job? Why are they arrogant? From what i see the government is taking very good care of the people. Hardly anyone is starving on the streets, crimes are low and education is given to all.
Ministers ARE supposed to minister the people, what is this? Marxism? What sort of a world do you live in? What is the basic principles of leadership? To assure your people do not starve, have a roof over their heads and are clothed comfortably. I think you don't even know what you want.
There is no If, Bear. The country WOULD be better off without people like you who complain and whin but don't know what you want, what you are demanding. You want an Ideal government which can exist only in an Ideal world.
And what is the Truth Bear? What are the pretty lies you speak of? The ugly truth is that the government you want cannot exist, it is impossible. Human nature cannot allow it. There is no utopia, not in Australia, not in Canada, not in America, not in Europe.
I don't execute the messenger, but i do tear the message apart to see if there's any truth in it. If you bring the truth so be it, if you bring lies and chaos don't bother. -
Yah.. but he could have stayed and made a stink, couldn't he? He left...
I've been called an idealist all my life. Just like a teacher told me, when I asked why she would not try her best to teach a child who did not understand a concept. She just said it was not worth the effort and that the child would forget it or it would not matter to the child. What happened to her? Did the grind become so bad that she is passing her cynicism to the next generation?
Are you?
I do not want to. I refuse to do so. If that makes me a mark, an unrealistic idealist, why not?
As for my country, are you trying to tell me that we are doomed to cynicism? To exist and never to live? To forget about thinking and letting others do the thinking for us?
I believe in things. What good and ideal things do you believe in? How would you want your child to look at you? What makes us human if we do not try to be better?
Complaints? They were not. They were observations. There are many things to be thankful for in our country. However, this thread is about sorrow. About what may sink us all. Our great infrastructure will not save us when our passion for life is drained from us. In the end, what is needed to take our country to the next level? Are the people ready? Are our lea-duhs willing to go there?
Have you even thought about these things before condemning everything positive with your cynicism? -
So you knew Churchill lost the elections but you claim he stepped down willingly? Not everyone is thick skinned, he knew he lost so what point was there to stay there and make a joke out of himself?
Yah.. but he could have stayed and made a stink, couldn't he? He left...
How do you expect to be respected if you are willing to exaggerate and lie about historical events to support your stand?
So your point is because you've heard a single teacher said that and so you assume everyone else is like that? Aren't you yourself, not cynical? If you go all out to teach a child to understand a concept you'd have to do so for all the children in your classes. Now i've known a few teachers that can do it, but the younger ones lacking experience often can't but most at least try their best.
Saying someone is cynical is to be sceptical of, sneering at goodness given to showing up human weakness; morose, sneering.
I'm not a cynical person, but i read up a lot and know that believing in absolutes is a terrible waste of time. It is better to try to see it from all points of view and learn to be more accepting of BOTH good and evil. You only want good, and pretend none of the evil exists.
Cynicism or maturing? We are not peasants in some rural countryside, if we are to survive we need to learn the world not to shut ourselves up and pretend we're one big happy family. Look at China and see what a mess they made by deluding themselves that Communism and Chairman Mao can bring happiness and prosperity?
Forget about thinking? Are not my arguments and statement made through thinking? Or do you seriously believe that only those thoughts that agree with you are products of a thinker? Learn to talk and interact with people around you, you will realise they are not as mundane as you think.
Do i not believe that the current government is performing "satisfactory" ? How am i cynical then?
You do not want to and do not wish to? Good luck to you then, find a nice quiet country side so you can keep telling yourself that. Free of people who chose to believe otherwise. Leave you a mark? You'd just fade into the streams of time, forgotten. People wouldn't even bother to ridicue you.
What good things i believe in? I believe that i should take care of my mother till she dies, i believe i should try my best to be good to those who have chose to be good to me and ask nothing in return.
I don't believe in absolutes, ideals to me are only products of a lazy and impatient mentality. Heh i want my children to know that i'd always be there for them, that's how i want them to look at me.
It is a natural human belief to want to be better, i do not dispute that. But we are trying to be better, you are the one that's lagging behind.
Observations are made with evidence, but your statements have none supporting it. You make wild theories and indulge in your delusion believing that it isn't possible that it might be not as you see. And you call me cynical?
You cannot kill passion for life, you can suppress but it can never be killed.
What is needed to bring us to the next level? Intelligence, and the maturity needed to guide it. "The people" have survived so far, no reason why they could not keep on going. The world population is 6 billion large, and you think you really know the world by living in a country of 3million?
I've thought of this and more. But more importantly i believe that my conclusions are made with the information i have on hand so i constantly strive to question and research to make sure it's as true as it gets. -
Typical, whin and complain with big words to gain attention. When the attention they're getting is not people agreeing they hide like some wounded animal. No different from the people they complain about i say.
Not talking about you Atobe
-
Hi Stevenson101,
This is embarrassing, but it looks as if "whining" is about the only "political action" that can safely happen in Singapore; and within the tolerable limit that is acceptable to the Singapore Government aka the Ruling Party.
Short of going full swing into the political arena, and get deciminated by the ruthless "kill or be killed" philosophy of the Ruling Party - is there any "Pro-Active" action that a Singaporean can actually do to make any impact to get the attention to the "Powers that be" ?
There was one other guy, who participated in another forum, and who advocated "an action plan" against Government Policies.
Last heard about him was in the Straits Times and it was reported that the judiciary sent him to the Institute of Mental Health for observation.
It has been about at least a month passed, and there do not seem to be any further news. -
Atobe,
That is a very unfair statement, i do not believe that there is a infaillible system. Any government is welcomed to try, but they'd still fail. That much i learn from world history.
I think you placed too little faith in the chaos of the human mind. We are not rural peasants in the countryside, believing the virtues of Marxism.
kill or be killed is the philosophy of every single political system in this world. If you cannot stand up to the heat, you crash and burn like every one else. Politics itself is a dog eat dog world, it is not for the weak of heart and mind. To believe otherwise is self delusion, the path of the Idealist.
My dislike towards idealists is not because that i'm a cynical person but the knowledge that no one can truly be a perfect leader. Look at Martin Luther King, the advocate for black equality yet he was a known sex fiend and was not short of lovers during his travels throughout America. An adulterer.
Yes, to kill or be killed. How can there be another way? Opposing the PAP directly is not different from trying to charge a fortress with only foot infantry. It's not a matter of the effort being futile, but a matter of the wrong method and lack of patience.
Ask yourself Atobe, is a man who advocates an action plan against Government policies without any public support sane?
I do not like to believe that no system cannot be beaten or twisted to one's own means. If i cannot think of any, someone else will eventually.
I like nothing more than to respect the person who chose to believe differently from i do. But i also highly dislike people who fight like a tunnel rat, striking out of nowhere and retreating to a dark corner, hissing and spitting when they've lost. Which is demostrated in my disgust to individuals like Bear.
Do you consider yourself a whiner Atobe? I do not believe so. But here you are speaking out against the government publicly.
Yes i believe the government is taking too strong a hand in suppressing alternate political views. But like i've said, this is a pandora's box. If you allow political freedom, you will also open the gates to questionable individuals as well as intelligent ones. I myself fear what might happen, who is to say another Adolf Hitler, Joesph Stalin, Mao Tze Tung popping out among our midst?
Forty years Atobe, we are a very young country. I'd rather grow old and see changes gradually than to see idealists on my television advocating final solutions or impractical policies. -
Hi Stevenson101
It is very surprising that you will consider my earlier statement to be unfair, given the politics that is practiced in Singapore.
I certainly do agree with you that no system is infallible, and that much is true too in Singapore, and more so with the much spoken “limitation in talent” - there should be more scope and diversity for voices to be heard freely.
Unfortunately, although Singapore has been lauded by the Ruling Political Party to have attained First World Standards – in almost every field – its mentality in “Politics” remain at the level of the Third World (just a shade better than Zimbabwe – as mentioned before)
“Kill or Be Killed” is the reality of the Animal World, where there is no room for the weak; and the strongest will sweep away the weakest.
In the enlightened world of the Homosaepians, we have the human feelings of humility, accommodation, tolerance, understanding, compassion, awareness of our own human limitations.
Regrettably, the extreme side of the Homosaepians that is a direct juxtapose to the above fragile characteristics are – arrogance, self-indulgence, intolerance, superiority, parochial close mindedness, condescending patronage, vanity, self-righteous, and over confidence.
Should politics degenerate to the level of “dog-eat-dog” and “Kill or Be Killed” that is characteristic of the Animal World, and in the Politics as practiced in the Third World.
It is little wonder that this Third World practices are adopted in the politics of Singapore, where the Ruling Party adopt a “Winner Take All” approach, claiming its perpetual right to govern Singapore in any methods that it believe are right to ensure its continued rule.
The “Winner Take All” approach has led to their own belief that they are the only talented ones, tried and tested by their “internal methods”, and therefore entitled to control the future of the peoples of Singapore and the Treasuries that goes along with it.
This has led to a situation where even the Elected President has no right to question the Government of The Ruling Political Party on matters pertaining to the National Reserves, which the Office of the Elected Presidency was created to oversee.
Why should we believe in the often repeated idea that is first made-up by the Ruling Political Party, that “it is dangerous to allow political freedom as it leads to the opening of Pandora’s Box”?
This is the belief that is wrongly and frequently stated by the Government (a.k.a. the Ruling Political Party). This line is frequently repeated for the sole purpose to discourage political opinions that are alternative to whatever the Government has directed.
The other belief that this Government encourages Singaporean to follow is that there is “limited talent in Singapore”.
In a small country such as Singapore, where the population is small it is all the more important that everyone should be active in politics, and be concerned with the political life of Singapore.
The current government policy of restricting public opinions of political views as the sole privilege of the Politicians, can only lead to dire consequences for a small country such as Singapore.
While many voices can lead to chaos, at least the diverse ideas from the many voices can come from the entire SMALL population, instead of being only from a select handful that is put through the meat-grinder to test their mettle. (The entire population of the EU is more then 10 times the size of Singapore).
Can Singapore allow its future to be experimented with, so as to allow the few “selected talents” to prove their mettle?
When a single arrogant leader believe in his infallible judgment is the best for Singapore, time will tell if the decisions made are correct.
As matters stand, a human life was locked up for twenty over years based on One PersonÂ’s judgment that the incarcerated is guilty of being a Communist. What about the lives of the other Singaporeans, who are now eking out a living based on the mistaken policies of the past, and whose voices were blocked out by those who consider themselves being better educated and infallible?
In a closed political system such as ours, who will dare to pass judgment on the ability of the Government personalities, especially the DPM-Finance Minister who will soon be designated to take over the PM position?
As the DPM started his youthful life through the various levels of his National Service, were the Commanding Officers – (in his Platoon, Company, Battalion, Brigade, Division, and finally in the Ministry of Defense) – objective in their assessment of the DPM’s true ability? Would anyone dare to pass judgment on the DPM’s youthful performance at each level of his political career?
Nations are born and made from ideals.
Without idealism from a bunch of youthful undergraduates that formed the first political leadership that set the path for a Singapore to be what it is today, where will Singapore be today?
It is with sadness that after FORTY Years, the early ideals spoken of by our SM is now forgotten, and the rules and regulations placed on the liberties of the Citizens of an independent Singapore, is harsher than those imposed by the British Colonial Master during the Colonial Days.
Our SM was a very vocal and capable advocate in his youth, and cried out for the Freedom to Gather in Public, Freedom to Public Speaking, and other Freedoms that enable him to gain a toe-hold in politics.
It is regrettable that after Forty Years, Singapore Incorporated is seen to be his “personal property”, the control of which can only be passed on in a continued “dynasty”.
It was shocking to hear SM speak in such a derogatory manner of the Prime Minister’s Office, after he took the back seat as the SM, when he replied that GCT maybe the PM, but he remain as the Secretary-General of the PAP – (it was politically very educating, that the office of the Secretary-General of the Ruling Political Party, is stronger than the PM Office of an Independent Country). GCT was the PM but remained as the Assistant Secretary-General until he proved his sincerity by attending to the illness of the DPM when both the SM and his wife was on an extended tour in South Africa.
This is politics in Singapore; and you are right in your observation that it will be insane for anyone to attempt to attack the fortress with only “infantry”. However, it is advisable to be transparent in all your endeavors towards Public Office, or you will be nipped in the bud, and accused of forming an underground communist cell to undermine the stability of Singapore.
This is Third World Politics practiced by homosapiens educated in the First World.
Most important political lesson to be learnt is not to be too quick in judging the opinion of others - give Bear a voice. -
Ok i know quotes are evil, but i'm just plain lazy.
I'd skip the first few paragraphs, i reckon i'd become very depressed and lose hope for the human race if i try to think up a response for them.
I believe i've already gave my answer to that. It was more of an adminstrative fluke than a conspiracy. More of human laziness than one of corruption. Look at the interview yourself. (March 10, 2002 Asia week)
This has led to a situation where even the Elected President has no right to question the Government of The Ruling Political Party on matters pertaining to the National Reserves, which the Office of the Elected Presidency was created to oversee.
I believe i've stated my views several times on this. I myself have never heard any speeches or paper made on this subject made by any within the PAP. I do my own research and study on the history of the world. You give me too much credit assuming i'm a PAP cronie. I'm only twenty, i'm not so exposed to Singaporean politics yet. But from the stories i've read, i'd like to think that i'm merely chosing the lesser evil.
Why should we believe in the often repeated idea that is first made-up by the Ruling Political Party, that “it is dangerous to allow political freedom as it leads to the opening of Pandora’s Box”?
There are alternatives, but it should come with time and slowly. History itself has proven dramatic changes are always accompanied by chaos. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Communist China, America Revolution...etc.
Like i've said, Singapore is a young country. It takes a while for the population to truly understand the machinations of politics. We have no indepth political history of our own and most of the people that migrate here came here to work, they didn't come here originally to get involved with politics.
In a small country such as Singapore, where the population is small it is all the more important that everyone should be active in politics, and be concerned with the political life of Singapore.
America may be bigger, but they have a few hundred years head start of us. And they got a lot more mistakes and successes to learn from.
Eventually yes, two or three more generations. But in the current generation? Unlikely.
One thing i've learned about diverse ideas is that little thought is given to the practicality of it. How to implement it, what are the possible reprecussions, how long would it take, how long can it last...etc.
How old is the EU compared to Singapore?How much more knowledge and politics have they inherited from their predecessors? I believe i've stated my point.
Every country is an experiment. We can never know whether it might turn out to be successful or not because it involves time which is beyond that of a standard human. America might fall back to be no better than Nigeria and Iraq can become the pinnacle of human civilization. How do we know if it might be successful or a failure ? That is the advantage Europe and America have over us, because they've tasted failure repeatedly and eventually work it all out.
Time will tell. I won't dispute with that.
He isn't the only communist being locked up indefinitely. In SE Asia, there's plenty of old communists rotting forgotten in some god forsaken prison.
And what about them Atobe? Every system always leave behind forgottens, the outcasts, the lost people. A small minority deserve the help rendered, but the vast majority will take advantage of the kindess given. Remember that man and his daughter who has nothing in his HDB flat? Jobs were offered to him and he complained the pay is too low or the working hours are too long. He is a classic example of whether help should be rendered to such individuals. If they would even appreciate it.
Even if our own media would not, foreign medias would. And we have access to them without restrictions. And that is why we're not a closed society.
Ah, but such Idealists are but a pitiful percentage. All i need to do is ask you to look at Communism. And look at the mess they're in now. How many failures are there for a single success story?
From what i've read on the British Colonial period, i would like to think we're actually more well informed and generally more free because we're not viewed as an inferior race. Servitude is not demanded of us. We are still free to leave and migrate if we want. The British would never bother to crack down on crime or give better social services.
If Bear had continued to view his opinions i would have paused to ponder if he really believed in what he's saying and try to decipher the truth in it. But he flees and hides in front of adversity, showing he doesn't even know what he choses to believe in. And worst of all, he lies to strengthen his position. Freedom of speech is often abused by those weak of heart and mind, who follow the flow, not knowing what exactly they're fighting for. The riots the Indonesian university students were staging are a perfect example. Freedom of speech will contribute to Mankind as a whole, but it is abused by those who know nothing and doesn't want to know anything else.
Bear is an example of the sort of Idealists i fear. Those who speaks of dreams and glory but have completely no idea in what they want and how to get it yet are still willing to fight to protect what is obviously a hollow dream.
Or perhaps it is unfair to call it hollow, but rather humans are so unaware of their own short life span that they expect perfect changes to occur within their life time. It may happen, but like all good things it always takes a while to work it all out, spanning across generations. That, is something a lot of idealists do not understand. -
Hi Stevenson101
You are most welcome to the position preferred and for your faith with this Government, which has to produce tangible results to justify their continued mandate from the People.
Concerning your reluctance to address the issues raised in the first few paragraphs of my previous post, here is a site you may wish to look into concerning the Third World politics that are practiced by Singapore Leaders who claim First World status.
http://www.singapore-window.org/teo.htm
Do you seriously believe that it was an ‘administrative fluke than a conspiracy’ in the delays with a response to the Elected Presidency request for a Report of the National Reserve. You are generous with your position taken, and are rightly entitled to it.
However, events do not seem to bear out those happenings to be a fluke of any kind, if one is to consider the volume and seriousness of tone with the rhetoric in Parliament; and with the subsequent safer choice for the Elected Presidency.
I am surprised that you will consider my post to have insinuated you to be a PAP crony. How did you come to such a conclusion?
In Singapore, there seem to be a stark contrast in positions taken, in which it is either black or white, and there is no middle road gray, no compromise, no attempt to understand and accommodate opposing or alternate views or opinions.
This seems to be a hangover of our Government too, in which to be seen to accept a view from the Opposition, would have been an admission of its own weak position or an acknowledgement that the opposite or alternate view is correct.
Would a ‘forty year old’ adult consider himself young and inexperienced like adolescence?
With a declining population, the majority age of present day Singaporeans will probably be in the age group of forty and over, and with most of them having lived through the history of Singapore. Is Singapore still “young and inexperienced” with the political development over the last forty years?
Singapore has achieved First World status by copying the economic models from other countries, and this was done in Thirty Years; while our Politics remains at Third World standards for the last Forty Years, and will continue to be so with the political arena constantly being manipulated to ensure the perpetuation of the Politicians from the Ruling Party.
The history that you have referred to that allowed dramatic changes to lead to chaos, had happened in countries where ONE strong voice led those countries, and with the entire population falling in total mesmerizing awe and hypnotic paralysis from fear or deference.
Nazi Germany had Adolf Hitler, Soviet Union had Stalin, Communist China had Mao; I wonder if the American Citizens will agree with you that their American Revolution was a result of anyone of similar character as those I just mentioned.
While Singapore is a Young Country (as you mentioned), it becomes more imperative that every citizen should be politically conscious and pro-active in the political life of Singapore.
While big countries can afford big and small mistakes, can small countries like Singapore afford any mistakes made that has consequences that stretch beyond one or two generations?
Past Policies that will affect us for generations to come will include:
SingaporeÂ’s shrinking population was a result of the skewered Family Planning Policy of the 1960Â’s; and the CPF measures that are effective today, is a result of the awakening to the shortcomings of the original CPF policy being supported by a shrinking population.
Can Singapore afford to wait another two or three generations to become politically pro-active in the Political Life of Singapore?
The American Revolution had its fair share of skeptics from amongst the many settlers in the New Country. Many had advocated the futility to fight against a disciplined and huge British Military, and there were long debates from all diverse sectors of the different communities across the various states. Yet consensus were made, and decisions quickly arrived at and executed.
Without participation and determination to “make a move”, will the American Revolution happen at all? Will USA be what it is today without the Revolution?
Concerning your response to those who have been incarcerated and forgotten by most Singaporeans, all of whom have to fend for their daily needs.
How can you compare the political stand taken by Chia Thye Poh, with the "man and his daughter in the HDB Flat" who refused work for a variety of reason? Your statement can only trivialised the incarceration of a human being for his political belief.
The sad part of this Chia Thye Poh story is that he was incarcerated for his stubborn refusal to admit that he is a Communist; and the refusal of the Government to give in to his claims for an Open Trial and for Legal Charges to be made against him - so that he can give a reply.
What right do we have to any claim to a First World status, when we cannot accord any civility towards our fellow Citizen, and can incarcerate him for Two-Third of his Life at the whim of a Single Person?
Idealism is not the sole preserve of Communist alone, as without the ideals of LKY and his compatriots, we would not have got ourselves immersed in a mad rush to join Malaysia – and with some very strong alternative voices against the merger with Malaysia being totally drowned.
The Father of the present day Sultan of Brunei, had the wisdom and foresight to smell out the weakness of the merger with Malaysia, and Brunei was better for it in not joining and was not left with any political baggage of being kicked out.
During the Colonial Days, Information was freely available for most Asians living in Singapore, it was a matter of someone getting it organized and distributing it, although not at the same level of speed and extensiveness with present day technologies.
Are you sure that Asians are still not looked at as an inferior race by the Caucasians in this 21st Century ? This racial prejudice has not evaporated away with our independence.
You are looking at a small part of the weakness of how the British Colonial Government is prepared to fulfill its role towards the people that it governs; but have not addressed the many new legislations that were made, to put new and all encompassing constraints to the liberties of the Citizens of an Independent Singapore; nor reply to the abuses that the Government made against any Citizens who dare to oppose the Government.
Concerning “Bear’s” position, I would think that he is a mature person, with ideals that may seem unrealistic to others, but perhaps he may act upon given a more open society that can tolerate alternative views.
Sometimes, what may seem to be a “lie”, could be a simple error of fact, or perhaps may not have been correctly delivered in the heat of a debate via keyboard. One should be magnanimous in victory, as it reflects the depth of oneself.
I would certainly agree with you that Singapore has a lot to learn in Politics, and it is sad to see our Political Leaders adopting a Third World mentality in Politics; and taking all the credit of SingaporeÂ’s achievement for themselves, as if the efforts of the common Singaporean Citizen has little contribution.
One of the many policies that the Ruling Party has made – that show up their distrust towards Singaporeans – is the Legislation that prevent any New Government from using any funds accumulated by the Previous Government, in the new Administrative Year.
If a New Political Party is given the mandate to rule by the People, it will show that the People would like to see the NEW Program being implemented for the benefit of the People and the Country - but the previous Government has the funds locked away.
No other country on this earth has a legislation that prevents an Incoming New Government using funds in the National Treasury that has been accumulated by the Previous Government. Do the funds in the National Treasury belong to the People, or to the Ruling Party of the Day ?
We allow the Ruling Party to take steps to evolve the Politics of the Country to hamper our own Freedom, and yet you will believe that Singapore is still too young to make any step to start the evolution to a more open political system.
Are you distrustful of ourselves and all other Singaporeans, to be able to participate meaningfully in the Political Life of Singapore? -
Hi Stevenson101
You are most welcome to the position preferred and for your faith with this Government, which has to produce tangible results to justify their continued mandate from the People.
Concerning your reluctance to address the issues raised in the first few paragraphs of my previous post, here is a site you may wish to look into concerning the Third World politics that are practiced by Singapore Leaders who claim First World status.
http://www.singapore-window.org/teo.htm
Do you seriously believe that it was an ‘administrative fluke than a conspiracy’ in the delays with a response to the Elected Presidency request for a Report of the National Reserve. You are generous with your position taken, and are rightly entitled to it.
However, events do not seem to bear out those happenings to be a fluke of any kind, if one is to consider the volume and seriousness of tone with the rhetoric in Parliament; and with the subsequent safer choice for the Elected Presidency.
I am surprised that you will consider my post to have insinuated you to be a PAP crony. How did you come to such a conclusion?
In Singapore, there seem to be a stark contrast in positions taken, in which it is either black or white, and there is no middle road gray, no compromise, no attempt to understand and accommodate opposing or alternate views or opinions.
This seems to be a hangover of our Government too, in which to be seen to accept a view from the Opposition, would have been an admission of its own weak position or an acknowledgement that the opposite or alternate view is correct.
Would a ‘forty year old’ adult consider himself young and inexperienced like adolescence?
With a declining population, the majority age of present day Singaporeans will probably be in the age group of forty and over, and with most of them having lived through the history of Singapore. Is Singapore still “young and inexperienced” with the political development over the last forty years?
Singapore has achieved First World status by copying the economic models from other countries, and this was done in Thirty Years; while our Politics remains at Third World standards for the last Forty Years, and will continue to be so with the political arena constantly being manipulated to ensure the perpetuation of the Politicians from the Ruling Party.
The history that you have referred to that allowed dramatic changes to lead to chaos, had happened in countries where ONE strong voice led those countries, and with the entire population falling in total mesmerizing awe and hypnotic paralysis from fear or deference.
Nazi Germany had Adolf Hitler, Soviet Union had Stalin, Communist China had Mao; I wonder if the American Citizens will agree with you that their American Revolution was a result of anyone of similar character as those I just mentioned.
While Singapore is a Young Country (as you mentioned), it becomes more imperative that every citizen should be politically conscious and pro-active in the political life of Singapore.
While big countries can afford big and small mistakes, can small countries like Singapore afford any mistakes made that has consequences that stretch beyond one or two generations?
Past Policies that will affect us for generations to come will include:
SingaporeÂ’s shrinking population was a result of the skewered Family Planning Policy of the 1960Â’s; and the CPF measures that are effective today, is a result of the awakening to the shortcomings of the original CPF policy being supported by a shrinking population.
Can Singapore afford to wait another two or three generations to become politically pro-active in the Political Life of Singapore?
The American Revolution had its fair share of skeptics from amongst the many settlers in the New Country. Many had advocated the futility to fight against a disciplined and huge British Military, and there were long debates from all diverse sectors of the different communities across the various states. Yet consensus were made, and decisions quickly arrived at and executed.
Without participation and determination to “make a move”, will the American Revolution happen at all? Will USA be what it is today without the Revolution?
Concerning your response to those who have been incarcerated and forgotten by most Singaporeans, all of whom have to fend for their daily needs.
How can you compare the political stand taken by Chia Thye Poh, with the "man and his daughter in the HDB Flat" who refused work for a variety of reason? Your statement can only trivialised the incarceration of a human being for his political belief.
The sad part of this Chia Thye Poh story is that he was incarcerated for his stubborn refusal to admit that he is a Communist; and the refusal of the Government to give in to his claims for an Open Trial and for Legal Charges to be made against him - so that he can give a reply.
What right do we have to any claim to a First World status, when we cannot accord any civility towards our fellow Citizen, and can incarcerate him for Two-Third of his Life at the whim of a Single Person?
Idealism is not the sole preserve of Communist alone, as without the ideals of LKY and his compatriots, we would not have got ourselves immersed in a mad rush to join Malaysia – and with some very strong alternative voices against the merger with Malaysia being totally drowned.
The Father of the present day Sultan of Brunei, had the wisdom and foresight to smell out the weakness of the merger with Malaysia, and Brunei was better for it in not joining and was not left with any political baggage of being kicked out.
During the Colonial Days, Information was freely available for most Asians living in Singapore, it was a matter of someone getting it organized and distributing it, although not at the same level of speed and extensiveness with present day technologies.
Are you sure that Asians are still not looked at as an inferior race by the Caucasians in this 21st Century ? This racial prejudice has not evaporated away with our independence.
You are looking at a small part of the weakness of how the British Colonial Government is prepared to fulfill its role towards the people that it governs; but have not addressed the many new legislations that were made, to put new and all encompassing constraints to the liberties of the Citizens of an Independent Singapore; nor reply to the abuses that the Government made against any Citizens who dare to oppose the Government.
Concerning “Bear’s” position, I would think that he is a mature person, with ideals that may seem unrealistic to others, but perhaps he may act upon given a more open society that can tolerate alternative views.
Sometimes, what may seem to be a “lie”, could be a simple error of fact, or perhaps may not have been correctly delivered in the heat of a debate via keyboard. One should be magnanimous in victory, as it reflects the depth of oneself.
I would certainly agree with you that Singapore has a lot to learn in Politics, and it is sad to see our Political Leaders adopting a Third World mentality in Politics; and taking all the credit of SingaporeÂ’s achievement for themselves, as if the efforts of the common Singaporean Citizen has little contribution.
One of the many policies that the Ruling Party has made – that show up their distrust towards Singaporeans – is the Legislation that prevent any New Government from using any funds accumulated by the Previous Government, in the new Administrative Year.
If a New Political Party is given the mandate to rule by the People, it will show that the People would like to see the NEW Program being implemented for the benefit of the People and the Country - but the previous Government has the funds locked away.
No other country on this earth has a legislation that prevents an Incoming New Government using funds in the National Treasury that has been accumulated by the Previous Government. Do the funds in the National Treasury belong to the People, or to the Ruling Party of the Day ?
We allow the Ruling Party to take steps to evolve the Politics of the Country to hamper our own Freedom, and yet you will believe that Singapore is still too young to make any step to start the evolution to a more open political system.
Are you distrustful of ourselves and all other Singaporeans, to be able to participate meaningfully in the Political Life of Singapore? -
Friends coming over for a night of mad gaming, will reply ya in a few days.
-
I won't call it reluctence, more of laziness. Much h8 for you, making me type out long essays again XD.
Generous? I found it rather mocking really. Making fun of the administration of their inability to prepare for the event that the President wanted to see the National Reserves.
This is adminstration that arghhh...damn you for making me find that interview again.
A direct quote:
Yes. It's complicated. It's never been done before. And for the assets of land, I can understand why. Every piece of land, even a stretch of road, is probably subdivided into many lots. There are 50,000 to 60,000 lots and every one has a number. If you want to value them all, it would take a long time. In the past, they have just locked everything up and assumed it is all there
What seems to be more likely is that the accountant general and auditor general thought President Ong wanted a dollar and cent valuation of it. And since earlier on, Wee Kim Wee had the ability to check but didn't, they probably assume future presidents won't want to see it and so was reluctant to devote the manpower neccessary to organise and produce the list. Which was probably very considerable work.
The record of all the assets were not kept in an organized manner because no one expected anyone would want to look at it since there was so much information.
And considering that the administration was so young and probably had no prior experience in work of this scale they probably thought it was more work than it was worth so didn't pay any attention to it.
Then please stop assuming that my statements are taken from as a direct quote " the often repeated idea that is first made-up by the Ruling Political Party, that “it is dangerous to allow political freedom as it leads to the opening of Pandora’s Box”?"
I am surprised that you will consider my post to have insinuated you to be a PAP crony. How did you come to such a conclusion?
It's really insulting to see all the reading and research i've done attributed to propaganda.
You are also taking that stand aren't you? Black and white. I'm taking the position that there is a middle road grey, a compromise. I won't say no attempts, but more of half hearted and reluctant attempts.
No idea to that one. I've never really seen the actual events to make that assumption yet.
Hah, i've seen grown up men and women lose their temper and act like a child. Being childish is not solely a child's privilege. Not to the extent of sitting on the floor brawling, but you get almost the same effect. As a result, i rarely give respect to a grown up until he or she earned it.
When one grows old, one grows stubborn. Reluctant to accept new ideas and thoughts. Especially highly educated academics. You sometimes got to throw the proof in their face before they would accept it. I mean, Bear is a perfect example. He prefer to call me cynical rather that admit his views may be flawed. Prefer to say that he is idealistic rather than admit the changes he want is impossible to obtain, at least in the foreseeable future.
Though Bear is a more extreme example, he is a demonstration that Singaporeans have not yet grown mature enough and still have much to learn about politics. A man may grow old, but not neccessarily grow up.
Great civilizations have preached freedom, but how many examples do you see really achieved this? You have not named a single example.
Humanity have been working for the past two milleniums to wipe out immorality. How close are they to that target now?
Continue to do so? For a few more decades perhaps, if they're lucky. But no more.
Sure they would. The americans for all their loudmouthness(Is there such a word ? -_-a). All i have to do is mention the Indians, the North/South war or Hatfields versus McCoys incident. Every single one of them full of blood and conflicts. Senators paying troops money for the scalp and ear of indians, of armies killing each other because one side decided slavery should be abolished. THESE are examples when you allow the wrong people to have a voice in governing.
America is still not free of problems even in the recent past, The FBI Director J Edgar Hoover would be the best example. And i do not want to be governed by a legal system that allowed a robber of my house to sue me.
I mention America because they had to go through a lot of dead bodies before they got it all right and they had the many voices you want. Not because of any Adolf and Stalin lookalike.
It is imperative, but you cannot just expect the entire population to be interested in politics. How in the world could you achieve that? Exactly, Singapore cannot afford to have mistakes. So, it would be wiser to exert tight control than to let go and expect all good and no mistakes to come out of it.
I've said before, up till now most people i've talked to rather like the CPF.
How quickly is this quick? Several years? Decades? I'll try to find information on this. But i doubt it was considered quick. And do not forget these were educated men, while the older singaporeans here only came here to work and were poorly educated. They knew how to work and be rich, but to be a politician?
And would the USA be greater than what it was today if it was instead ruled by a military dictactorship? Becoming the new global government? There is no point discussing what might have happened if things turned out differently.
Never did compared them, i was making the responses paragraph by paragraph. Shrug, i prefered quotes but the posts just get too damn long. You put the political prisoners and outcasts of the system in the same paragraph anyhow. Maybe i misinterpreted what you mean.
Well i wouldn't know what to say really. I haven't read up on this portion of history yet. I'd prefer to hold back my views till i know more.
Idealism? I wouldn't call joining Malaysia an idealistic decision. Joining them was a decision made on consideration of personal survival. It wasn't made to create a utopia. Idealism is reserved for those who think doing this would result in a paradise on earth.
Now, when you lose a debate, your arguments get drowned out. Do not those argue with you with points you can overturn easily get drown out as well? Because nobody cares since it could be overturn? This is like arguing that all cultures should be equal when the culture who uphold this view is superior to the one that does not.
Well, the Sultan of Brunei had the option because there was oil in his country. Brunei can survive on its own by buying what it needs through the sale of its oil. Singapore didn't have that option. Of course it could afford not to join Malaysia.
Some perhaps, but a majority? Unlikely. But many countries now at least respect that Singapore could come this far. They may not like us, but they wouldn't say anything in public.
The British wasn't worried about the freedom of information because they were so secured in their sense of invulnerabiliity. Everyone in the world thought the British cannot be defeated until World War 2. There was just no need to limit the people because no one would dare. Everyone just wanted to come here, work and go home. There was no identity, they didn't give a damn to what Singapore would become.
Maturity i would expect would be accepting and have a very in depth view on things. Not hurling presumptions and lies. Yes atobe, that is possible. But he himself admitted he knew Churhill was voted out in his following post. I agree that misunderstandings can be made by a simple mistake but there was none in his statements. He simply twisted the facts to make himself look better rather than admit he was wrong.
I pride myself as a good loser. I'm not afraid to admit i lose, but neither am i one that laugh at a person when i win. I merely express my disgust to a person that was a poor loser. Especially one who is older than me and expected to be wiser than i am. I respect both gracious losers and winners, but give none to those who are not.
I don't feel they're taking all the credits. But they've certainly deserved enough to merit it. And the policies they have made are though short term, a significant contribution to Singapore.
There should be a reason for the legistration i would assume since i've not heard of it myself. Or else there would be a serious public outcry. I'd find it when i have the time.
Neither Atobe. I have held firm that the slow and steady wins the race. But look, the only people taking part in this discussion is the two of us. No one else is participating. So am i correct to assume that Singaporeans are not yet ready to participate or are we to assume we're just two very bored individuals with nothing better to do? -
To both of you, as much as i would love to make a reply, I simply don't have any in depth knowledge to make a easonable statement which could be backed by facts. All i could say, is this.
I feel that the mindset of singaporeans are not matured enough.
We can't handle great changes within a short period of time.
Remember the time when the public requested to have a speaker's coner so that we can voice our political oppinion?
The people who made their speeches there were mainly discontented individuals who prefer to complain about their personal lives.very few of them made any constructive speeches.
If we can't even accept a small morsal of a change, how can we expect the government to release their grasp?
Right now, our maturity level are like those of a teenager.We want great changes, yet at the sametime, we espect the government to take care of us.When the golden years come, we sing praises to our government.When the bleak years come, we curse and swear.
Is it fair. to say we are mature then?We should think for the greater good of the nation rather then ourselves.
could you imagine, if tomorrow, the government says lets get rid of the cpf, lets use the pension system.why use medishield? use free health care services instead.Why bother with price hikes, lets get rid of it.Lets legalise strikes and demonstrations.
can you imagine what would happen? t the initial stages, we will all enjoy this free services. But as time passes, you will discover that it not only affacts your life, It affects the very existence of our nation too.Imagine how much more money would be lost in that case?
Comparitively, singapore has the lowest gst rates among the developed countries, even after the increase.So why are we complaining?
But we should be happy that even throughout this bad times, we are having 3 meals a day , a roof over our heads .Lets us all wait till times are better before we comment on anything.
I am just a young person, who don't have much experience with the outside world.But i have seen my parents who live life as per normal even after this changes by the government.But are they complaining? I have yet to see them do that yet.Like most of you , I come from a middle class family.Looking at my parents and some of the forumites, i often wonder, we are all suffering the same shit, and experiencing the same kind of pain.But why is it that some people prefer to work silently while others prefer to complain? Is it that our younger generations are just too well protected and do not know the tortures of hardships?
Well, this is just my two cents.Please pardon me for any imflamatory comments or any statements which are untrue.I am just speaking from a young individual's perspective.Pleasa guide me with your replies.