A rich & prosperous M'sia will mean better relationship with
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What LKY said some years back that a rich neighbour made a good neighbour was realistically true. And this is going to be true as far as Malaysia-Singapore relationship is concerned.
Malaysia is under great distress after the Calpers funds pulled out recently. But even before that when the 9-11 fallouts hit Malaysia, it could not hide its stress and problems when they started to attack Singapore on the pricing of water which was inked some decades back. Then the "tudung" issue followed and now the land reclaimation in Singapore. More will be coming if the Evergreen Shipping Line stays put with PSA. There will be barrage of other issues which may force SAF to make more "recall" in the near future!
The ICQ problems had prompted the Malaysian armed forces to move south during that period, and SAF to make recall to counter that tense situation.
All these problems would be reduced ONLY IF Malaysia is at the same footing with Singapore. This sounds easy but it may be quite impossible! Frankly if Singaporeans choose not to shop and invest in JB or Malaysia, that scenerio may be quite hideous!
Malaysia's attempts to spend billions to improve its infrastructures in Johor to compete with Singapore for the investor's dollars is a positive move that may jerk Singapore out of its complacency. However, if Singapore is climbing further up its economic ladder, that economic gap which generates frictions will still remain, and there is not much remedy unless the Malaysian leaders can see thing in perspective! -
Nooo! If Malaysia gets rich, their stinky 'big-brother' attitude will only get worse...
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Amen! It'll start telling the Malays in Singapore that their racist Bumiputra policy works, and encourage them to fight for an equivalent in Singapore. Can you imagine what it'll lead to in Singapore?Originally posted by YourFather:Nooo! If Malaysia gets rich, their stinky 'big-brother' attitude will only get worse...
Whats even worse, it'll actually HAVE the money to buy all the weapons its having wet dreams about now, and be able to threaten us militarily.
At this moment, Malaysia is a chained up mad dog with all bark and no bite. Giving it riches will simply unchain the mad dog. -
Any word about Malaysian T-72s? Or their MBT purchase?
Malaysia is definitely stepping up the competition. And there is a possibility that Malaysia will actually do better than us if they play their cards right. Their attitude towards us will really depend on their leaders, and how they view Singapore. -
T-72s? They were looking for T-90s (!), last I heard...
Another update on Malaysia:
ST reported that the "Royal Malaysian Air Force fighter plane fleet is to be strengthened with the purchase of AEW Command and Control aircraft, Air Force Commander Suleiman Mahmud said."
What AEW plane you think they'll be getting, if they are getting any at all? Anybody got more in-depth info, please post.
[This message has been edited by YourFather (edited 10 March 2002).] -
Viper52 - Singapore & Malaysia do work hand in hand together, problem happens everywhere and even Singapore do touch other people internal stuff, big deal about that, and as for you ... just blind..only sees what others do, but not your own.
you think singapore are rich? learn about economy friend, especially singapore & malaysia. you might learn something from that. trading & natural resources ... which is more stable.... you running out of land & place to leave?
only people like you and your kind likes to create problem and wanting something bad to happen, your wish will not come through.
thank god..satan...jesus...buddha..etc. that both leaders are smart!! if people like you run the country ... it will all be ruin.
hey.. don't you get it, if there is going to be any war, it would happen long time ago. You want to be at the front line? be a hero? is good to be a PROUD SINGAPOREAN but not by slacking others off ... makes you so CHEAP.
why don't you do something good insted of barking at the wrong tree. Do something for your country, not what the country can do fo you .... productive & positive.
Racist? ... aren't you too ... go and work, make money & loads of it..then change the world.. or you want to be warlord? you like fighting? Malay have problem in Singapore, they are singaporean after all. Chinese have problem in Malaysia, they are after all Malaysian too .... learn to work together is better then just bluntly shooting at eachother.
Who is Singaporean? Who is Malaysian? Chinese & Malays only? learn about it okie.
can we be positive with our thinking and attitude towards others.
This world can be a better place.
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There are only two kinds of Chinese: those who give bribes and those who take them. -
Since when have I said I wanted war? I know that war is the last thing I want and we need. But if you read the newspapers, look at the rhetoric thats coming south acroos the causeway, Mahathir saying in 1997 that war cannot be discounted, and again last year when some idiot colnel advocated poisoning Singapore's water supply. Do you hear such "war" talk from Singapore?
Ohhh...yeah....silly me...I forgot...Malaysia has natural resources, thus making it rich. Call me cynical but I don't think that the current prices of tin rubber and oil palm can turn Malaysian into a developed economy anytime soon. Who needs an secons lesson now?
The 2 countries have worked together in the past. But the pasts the pasts, there has been in increase in anti-Singapore sentiment in recent years, and although I feel that most of it is simply playing to the local gallery, it still unsettles me, and others on this board and elsewhere that we are constantly used as a bogeyman whenever certain politicians feel like it.
Me, a racist?? You're really sticking your neck out on this one my boy. How well do you know mw personally? On what basis do you derive the remark? My criticism of the Bumi policy? Go read a dictionary boy and tell me what defines a racist. I did not make a blanket condemnation or discrimination of any race; Chinese Malay Indian or Caucasian. I hit out at a policy which makes a blanket discrmination against certain groups based on only one criteria: skin colour. Get your facts right.
I don't intend to be a hero, a warlord, or warmonger and anything. I made my comment based on what I feel and what I've read. Don't twist my words and make it seem like I've said something I haven't.
Positive? Sure. I count among my friends after mnay years of study in another country Australian, Malaysians(of ALL races incidentally), HongKongers, Indians among many others. I've yet to be labeled a racist by someone who knows me. And I don't make personal attacks on others postings on internet forums unless attacked first. hows that for positive?
BTW, I'm still waiting on that bribe.
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If theres war it would have happened long ago? Get real. Kuwait supported Iraq through its war against Iran, provided money, help, sanctuary from 1980-1988. Lok what happended on 2 August 1990. Theres not such thing as a permanent friend or enemy. Just because we were friends in the past does not mean thats the case for the future. I have no wish for a spat with Malaysia, but we must always realise that the potential will forever be there.Originally ranted by Tachiiri Kinshi:hey.. don't you get it, if there is going to be any war, it would happen long time ago. You want to be at the front line? be a hero? is good to be a PROUD SINGAPOREAN but not by slacking others off ... makes you so CHEAP.
why don't you do something good insted of barking at the wrong tree. Do something for your country, not what the country can do fo you .... productive & positive.
I have done what my country has asked of me. And will continue to do so. I've not raised a word against that. Have you done the same? -
Viper52- Nice to know that you not looking for spat or anything bad to happen between Malaysia & Singapore.
Things can happen, I dont deny that.. as long as we can put our head together & understand eachother better, will lead to harmony life.
Politician will hit on eachother, let it be Malaysia or Singapore, that does not means they are right by doing so. If you look at the past history between Singapore & Malaysia, both politician been saying good & bad about eachother... some of it is not true, this is all base on their judgement.. in the end of the day, we the citizen will have the final voice & vote to make the different.
Economy wise, Singapore have always been banking on trading & foreign investment which will be greatly effected by the world economic & financial structure... slight changest can upset nation.
Malaysia not only banking on trading, they do have natural stuff ... petroleum, rubber, tin, water..timber...etc.. which will always be in needs by other country...like Singapore & the rest of the world. Look at the economy crisis right now ... Singapore is in worst state then Malaysia.
'Racist bumiputra policy'- that is calling the people(Malay) as being racist. Do understand there is a long history regards to this matters.... after all the policy is made by the people with support by other race too... Singapore runs by it too .. 'Racist Chinese policy?' ... is every right of a nation to do some... some are hidden & some are fully lite up.
Military - Singapore have the best equipment & technology, this is the fact. As for Malaysia they are getting there, infact the latest internal news is that by mid of next year the will be producing, joint venture with Russia ... fighter plane, tanks & ships.
This is for business... not WAR.
Done a lot for my country, will never be enough compare to what my country have done for me... in fact I'm giving jobs to Singaporean & Malaysian.
As for you calling me 'BOY' .. I dont mind that after all this boy is playing with big toy.
Bribe?... that is the down fall of a Nation, I dont do & take bribe... lol.
Take Care Dude.
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There are only two kinds of Chinese: those who give bribes and those who take them. -
Originally posted by Tachiiri Kinshi:Viper52- Nice to know that you not looking for spat or anything bad to happen between Malaysia & Singapore.
Things can happen, I dont deny that.. as long as we can put our head together & understand eachother better, will lead to harmony life.
Politician will hit on eachother, let it be Malaysia or Singapore, that does not means they are right by doing so. If you look at the past history between Singapore & Malaysia, both politician been saying good & bad about eachother... some of it is not true, this is all base on their judgement.. in the end of the day, we the citizen will have the final voice & vote to make the different.
**** WRONG!! if mahatir tomolo declare war on singapore... what r u malaysian gonna do??? parang him down??? so.... please dont be a naive idiot.... heheehee.... u only vote once in 4-5 years.... but how many decisions are made without public approval in that 4-5 years???
Economy wise, Singapore have always been banking on trading & foreign investment which will be greatly effected by the world economic & financial structure... slight changest can upset nation.
Malaysia not only banking on trading, they do have natural stuff ... petroleum, rubber, tin, water..timber...etc.. which will always be in needs by other country...like Singapore & the rest of the world. Look at the economy crisis right now ... Singapore is in worst state then Malaysia.
***** WRONG!!!! pls pick up a book on economics 101 Q&A.... natural resources is not a measurement of wealth or success.. If your belief is TRUE... then by the same assumption INDONESIA must be the most well off nation now in view of their 'natural resources'
'Racist bumiputra policy'- that is calling the people(Malay) as being racist. Do understand there is a long history regards to this matters.... after all the policy is made by the people with support by other race too... Singapore runs by it too .. 'Racist Chinese policy?' ... is every right of a nation to do some... some are hidden & some are fully lite up.
***** WRONG!!!!! (man u are really dumb or dame naive) minority has little say and thus they are pressured into accepting racist policies... especially more so in malaysia when military and judicial power has been used against minority races to accept the bumiputra policies... e.g. military killing of chinese in 1969 riots... and judicial power in the form of sedition charges filed against anyone who dares to voice their disapproval of the policies..
***** so... cut the wayang lah...
Military - Singapore have the best equipment & technology, this is the fact. As for Malaysia they are getting there, infact the latest internal news is that by mid of next year the will be producing, joint venture with Russia ... fighter plane, tanks & ships.
This is for business... not WAR.
***** YAWN........ (well... wat can i say... poor bugger obviously didnt know the russians very well... heeehehee....) THE russians only wants money.... but they are not stupid... they will teach maharajas to build something, but not everything.... usually they always leave the key component out... so that...... (HEHEHEEEE) 1. malaysia will always be dependent on them for supply of those key components....2. they can control the numbers of military items malaysia can hold.... 3. they can jack up the price of those key component to the roof when needed to squeeze until maharaja bends over....
***** lastly... the ruskies never gave the best... even the AMRAAMSKI that they supposed to give malaysia is a double downgraded version.
Done a lot for my country, will never be enough compare to what my country have done for me... in fact I'm giving jobs to Singaporean & Malaysian.
As for you calling me 'BOY' .. I dont mind that after all this boy is playing with big toy.
Bribe?... that is the down fall of a Nation, I dont do & take bribe... lol.
Take Care Dude. -
tripwire :
**** WRONG!! if mahatir tomolo declare war on singapore... what r u malaysian gonna do??? parang him down??? so.... please dont be a naive idiot.... heheehee.... u only vote once in 4-5 years.... but how many decisions are made without public approval in that 4-5 years???
*Mahathir declare war? he alone is in no position to declare war. There is channel to follow before any war can be call upon. Every 4 years there will be an election. How about Singapore? Is there any different with the decision making without PUBLIC APPROVAL? This happen in every country so what is your point? .... 'naive idiot'? *
***** WRONG!!!! pls pick up a book on economics 101 Q&A.... natural resources is not a measurement of wealth or success.. If your belief is TRUE... then by the same assumption INDONESIA must be the most well off nation now in view of their 'natural resources'
* Economics 101 Q&A book ... you base economics on book? .....who is talking about wealth & success, in a long run country economic & financial stability would be better by having natural resources with good ground works by the people & goverment. As in Indonesia case, the political structure is in bad shape, public wants changest to be done quickly but they forget that to build a strong nation takes a long time, especially with that size of a country.... Singapore is not having that problem, maybe in the future if you keep reading Economic 101 & Q&A without applying logic & conditions... what is your reason & application in economics?*
***** WRONG!!!!! (man u are really dumb or dame naive) minority has little say and thus they are pressured into accepting racist policies... especially more so in malaysia when military and judicial power has been used against minority races to accept the bumiputra policies... e.g. military killing of chinese in 1969 riots... and judicial power in the form of sedition charges filed against anyone who dares to voice their disapproval of the policies..
*You are living in Singapore, this apply in Singapore as you already know. Only recently the policy start to give way to others. This is done due to security of the internal and international interest of the country which is being run by the majority... 'dumb or dame naive'?... are you?.. we show it.
13th May 1969 riots- The chinese attack & kill malay people first, Military & Police stop the riot of both side with majority death on the Chinese side, after all there are more malays in Malaysia. So what is the issue with the military in this manner?.. I hope you know what you are writing about.
'Sedition chargest'- We do have opposition party going against the goverment by media which is allowed.... we have people voicing their disaggrement, provided they have proves, action will be taken... same goes with Singapore. No system is perfect. People abuse power too .. so what is your ground?*
***** so... cut the wayang lah...
*wayang? what is your next film going to be?*
***** YAWN........ (well... wat can i say... poor bugger obviously didnt know the russians very well... heeehehee....) THE russians only wants money.... but they are not stupid... they will teach maharajas to build something, but not everything.... usually they always leave the key component out... so that...... (HEHEHEEEE) 1. malaysia will always be dependent on them for supply of those key components....2. they can control the numbers of military items malaysia can hold.... 3. they can jack up the price of those key component to the roof when needed to squeeze until maharaja bends over....
*You know the russian, french, american, israel & South Africa very well .. in term of supplying military equipment. You know the protocol?... very happy for you, then again you just base on your reading.
In business, money matters the most... remember that & you will go very far.
Key component? as long as you dont design it, you dont have the right over it. They can keep whatever they want, provided the contract & terms being followed. So whats the problem here?.... I forgot, you know all this too, after all Singapore do purchase military equipment from foreign country, want to buy SME training ammo.? How about Malaysian made Styer?... slightly heavier then the SAR21 but stronger.*
***** lastly... the ruskies never gave the best... even the AMRAAMSKI that they supposed to give malaysia is a double downgraded version.
*coming from you, whatever Malaysia buys will always be bad, downgraded, broken down, no spares..etc. Singapore always get the best military equipment from foreign country? Everything brand new? Latest deals? If that is the case ... good for you, as for me ... it doesn't make any different. Every country have the rights to buy whatever works for them. That is good.*
*As long as we are able to defend our country and keep the internal at peace, that would be enough. As simple as that.*
What is the economic growth target for Singapore this year? Did you manage to achive the target for last year? ... we did under the so call Malay goverment. This year hoping for better improvement, Year Of The Horse as the Chinese call it, but then again Malaysia is run by majority of Malays. Suprisingly .. even America look up at us on the way we handle the economy crisis. Not by economics 101 Q&A book for sure.
We can have better understanding if we want too.
Take Care & hope you do well in your study & future work.
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There are only two kinds of Chinese: those who give bribes and those who take them. -
How many decisions have M'sia made WITH public approval within 4-5 years? Does it take public approval to decide what military weaponry M'sia buys within 4-5 years? Making decisions THEN telling the public about it is called "public approval?" If somehow, US declares war on M'sia, bombs the peninsular to bits, and finds public "disapproval," what the hell happens next? I pick up a knife and stab you to death, then others look at me "disapprovingly," what the hell happens then? REWIND?Originally posted by Tachiiri Kinshi:tripwire :
**** WRONG!! if mahatir tomolo declare war on singapore... what r u malaysian gonna do??? parang him down??? so.... please dont be a naive idiot.... heheehee.... u only vote once in 4-5 years.... but how many decisions are made without public approval in that 4-5 years???
*Mahathir declare war? he alone is in no position to declare war. There is channel to follow before any war can be call upon. Every 4 years there will be an election. How about Singapore? Is there any different with the decision making without PUBLIC APPROVAL? This happen in every country so what is your point? .... 'naive idiot'? *
***** WRONG!!!! pls pick up a book on economics 101 Q&A.... natural resources is not a measurement of wealth or success.. If your belief is TRUE... then by the same assumption INDONESIA must be the most well off nation now in view of their 'natural resources'
* Economics 101 Q&A book ... you base economics on book? .....who is talking about wealth & success, in a long run country economic & financial stability would be better by having natural resources with good ground works by the people & goverment. As in Indonesia case, the political structure is in bad shape, public wants changest to be done quickly but they forget that to build a strong nation takes a long time, especially with that size of a country.... Singapore is not having that problem, maybe in the future if you keep reading Economic 101 & Q&A without applying logic & conditions... what is your reason & application in economics?*
***** WRONG!!!!! (man u are really dumb or dame naive) minority has little say and thus they are pressured into accepting racist policies... especially more so in malaysia when military and judicial power has been used against minority races to accept the bumiputra policies... e.g. military killing of chinese in 1969 riots... and judicial power in the form of sedition charges filed against anyone who dares to voice their disapproval of the policies..
*You are living in Singapore, this apply in Singapore as you already know. Only recently the policy start to give way to others. This is done due to security of the internal and international interest of the country which is being run by the majority... 'dumb or dame naive'?... are you?.. we show it.
13th May 1969 riots- The chinese attack & kill malay people first, Military & Police stop the riot of both side with majority death on the Chinese side, after all there are more malays in Malaysia. So what is the issue with the military in this manner?.. I hope you know what you are writing about.
'Sedition chargest'- We do have opposition party going against the goverment by media which is allowed.... we have people voicing their disaggrement, provided they have proves, action will be taken... same goes with Singapore. No system is perfect. People abuse power too .. so what is your ground?*
***** so... cut the wayang lah...
*wayang? what is your next film going to be?*
***** YAWN........ (well... wat can i say... poor bugger obviously didnt know the russians very well... heeehehee....) THE russians only wants money.... but they are not stupid... they will teach maharajas to build something, but not everything.... usually they always leave the key component out... so that...... (HEHEHEEEE) 1. malaysia will always be dependent on them for supply of those key components....2. they can control the numbers of military items malaysia can hold.... 3. they can jack up the price of those key component to the roof when needed to squeeze until maharaja bends over....
*You know the russian, french, american, israel & South Africa very well .. in term of supplying military equipment. You know the protocol?... very happy for you, then again you just base on your reading.
In business, money matters the most... remember that & you will go very far.
Key component? as long as you dont design it, you dont have the right over it. They can keep whatever they want, provided the contract & terms being followed. So whats the problem here?.... I forgot, you know all this too, after all Singapore do purchase military equipment from foreign country, want to buy SME training ammo.? How about Malaysian made Styer?... slightly heavier then the SAR21 but stronger.*
***** lastly... the ruskies never gave the best... even the AMRAAMSKI that they supposed to give malaysia is a double downgraded version.
*coming from you, whatever Malaysia buys will always be bad, downgraded, broken down, no spares..etc. Singapore always get the best military equipment from foreign country? Everything brand new? Latest deals? If that is the case ... good for you, as for me ... it doesn't make any different. Every country have the rights to buy whatever works for them. That is good.*
*As long as we are able to defend our country and keep the internal at peace, that would be enough. As simple as that.*
What is the economic growth target for Singapore this year? Did you manage to achive the target for last year? ... we did under the so call Malay goverment. This year hoping for better improvement, Year Of The Horse as the Chinese call it, but then again Malaysia is run by majority of Malays. Suprisingly .. even America look up at us on the way we handle the economy crisis. Not by economics 101 Q&A book for sure.
We can have better understanding if we want too.
Take Care & hope you do well in your study & future work.
And again, how do you calculate wealth and "success" of a country or countries. How do you compare them? The way I look at it, there isn't really a fair comparison, cos the neither countries are equal. You take the annual growth of Singapore and Malaysia, and you compare. Would that be a fair assesment? Have you taken land mass into consideration, population, resources and etc etc. I feel there is NO fair comparison. However, my judgement is that Singapore IS more successful than Malaysia, and in a way wealthier. Singapore on its own, is a piece of rock, with virtually NOTHING. No particular resources. But it has prospered and is still prospering. It is without a doubt doing better than her neighbours in SEA. Even after independence, things did not fall apart, when many others predicted it to.
Bumiputra policy, racist chinese policy, whatever. Its called democracy. Whichever ethnic group is largest, and decides to vote for a policy favoring themselves, there will not be a way for a minority ethnic group to vote their way out of it. Ditto for Singapore. UNLESS, we have something similar to the "First Amendment" in the US.
The game Russia plays with their arms sales isn't rocket science. And you stated it yourself, its business. So, if they control the hardware, they control the business. There aren't many countries supplying arms freely, without any policies or laws prohibiting. I can only think of the Russians and the French. Maybe the Israelis... but the day M'sia buys Israeli equipment...................... Point being, Russians are willing to undercut competitors cos they really need money bad. BUT, they won't be as dumb as to sell you everything you need in one go, thus losing valuable business.
What ABOUT Malaysian made Steyrs? And what the HELL are you talking about. Steyr is a gawddamned Austrian company. Unless you're referring to the Steyr AUG - assault rifle. And why on earth would Singapore want to buy Augs from Malaysia when we are capable of producing our own SAR-21s? In fact, WHO would want to buy them? Hell at least China buys our FH-2000s.
Malaysian AMRAAMSKI is double downgrade or not, I don't know. But its definitely a downgrade. Russian EXPORT equipment has ALWAYS been downgraded. If you want upgrades, you have to DIY or pay to have it upgraded.
So what was your "economic growth target" last year? How high were u aiming? If you aim low and achieve low, whats the point. Singaporean mentality has always been, "Aim high." Of course, high within our limits. If one is able to continually hit his targeted mark, it means that he is not being pushed to his limit, under-achieving. If he falls below his aim, he will be pushed harder to his his mark. A quality much needed in the current economic situation. -
Since when did China buy our FH-2000s? Is there any other export customers?
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Not too sure about that. We sell em together with the ammunition too. Not too sure if we sold them the FH-2000s or the FH-88s, can't remember clearly.
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Shotgun - Downgrade? Upgrade? ... that is what a country need so let it be.
America sells top mark equipment to Singapore? ..... if so good for you, well you won't know except what the goverment wants you to know.
**How many decisions have M'sia made WITH public approval within 4-5 years? Does it take public approval to decide what military weaponry M'sia buys within 4-5 years? Making decisions THEN telling the public about it is called "public approval?" If somehow, US declares war on M'sia, bombs the peninsular to bits, and finds public "disapproval," what the hell happens next? I pick up a knife and stab you to death, then others look at me "disapprovingly," what the hell happens then? REWIND?**
Is that a problem to you? What is your point here? Is fine when Singapore do it? You buy what you want & we buy what we want. Simple as that.
Singapore is successful then Malaysia, infact is better then any country in SEA. I totaly agree with that. After all look at the size ...etc. As you already mention. Singapore & other SEA country do help eachother in many ways, as for more space to grow in developement of a country, Malaysia have more. Once you are on top, the only other ways you can go is down... for awhile, which is going on now. Not to worry, things will be better soon for Singapore & the rest.
Steyrs is being made in Malaysia, also being exported to other nation. This year we start selling training planes & remote spy plane.
3% for Singapore is very little for Economic Growth target, that is not aiming high, still you cannot achive it. This shows that Singapore is at the peak. You do realize that don't you? ... Singapore & Malaysia are caught big time with the current economy falls.
I hope in couple of years time, we can recover fully.
Ta Dude.