Contradiction
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The original post -_-
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/singapore/story/0,4386,192731,00.html?
Straits Time Home section June 4 2003 -
Liked your attention here.
ONE by one, it became clear yesterday that the junior college students at the annual Pre-University Seminar did not care to speak to the press.
'No comment', said seven of them in rapid succession when asked what they thought of Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's dialogue with them.
Slowly it emerged that they dared not speak because of a rule printed in the programme kit distributed to all of the 510 participants at the annual seminar, held jointly by the Education Ministry and Victoria Junior College this year.
While some students scuttled off, a few others opened their files and pointed to a paragraph that read: 'If at any time you are independently approached by a member of the press... give a listening ear to the request but politely decline to be interviewed.'
The students were also told in the kit to refer members of the media to the organisers.
When asked, the organisers replied in a statement that the rule was 'to allow organisers to balance the need to ensure that the activities at the event and interviewees' schedule are not unduly disrupted with the need to facilitate the media in covering the event and interviewing participants'.
They also said they would have been happy to have a press officer escort reporters if they wanted to approach participants directly.
And that 'rule'? It was merely 'advice', the organisers said. -
Ok sheesh, you organise something to educate the public and tell them NOT to make any comments, anyone find this ridiculous ?
-_-a
The idea of interviewing the students that joined the seminar is to hear the STUDENTs' view on what DPM said, how could you "advise" them not to say anything to the press? How are we supposed to be entreprenurs if you don't even feel safe enough to let us say what we think of it.
The moment the students see an reporter approaching with a press officer they would have ran instead of giving their comments. -
Such is the dilemma of encouraging the growth of a creative mind.
A creative mind will also need to learn to be critical, to be discerning, and to be able to differentiate the rhetoric from reality.
To see through the smoke, and get to the light. -
This is Singapore wat... what do you expect...
Besides, sometimes I feel that prehaps to help the clone troopers JC students to be creative is a bit of a fool errand. There's no such problem in Poly, either because there's no need to or they can't be bothered. But by any method, it's easy to see if students from which side are more creative. Bah. -
Remember what some minister once said "Creativity can only be conditioned in a DISCIPLINED environment" that is b UL L SHIT! U should let go to let all possibilities be available... but anywayz that is Singapore.. Lucky I wont have to be here forever...
When was the last time anyone ever saw a local TV COMMERCIAL winning an award??? Anyone? -
Haha pretty funny. Being creative IS being undisciplined.
Don't have meh? thought i remember got. -
In todays Straits Times Forum:
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http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,4386,193891,00.html?
Advice not meant to prevent students from speaking out
I REFER to the letter, 'Gag 'advice' at odds with push for independence' (ST, June 6), by Mr Ng Aik Kwang, who was concerned that the advice given to students on speaking to the press at the Pre-University Seminar 2003 would stymie our aim to 'encourage students to be creative individuals who can articulate their views in an independent manner'.
The advice in the Pre-University Seminar folder for participants was not meant to discourage students from speaking to the media. The intention was to allow participants who were not comfortable with being interviewed the option of declining the media's request for interviews.
We regret that the advice has caused some students who were approached by The Straits Times to decline interview requests. We will remove the advice from the folders in future.
The media, including The Straits Times, were able to speak to some students on the day of the Opening Ceremony to get their views on the keynote address by Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.
Notwithstanding this, the Ministry of Education facilitated another round of interviews by The Straits Times with the participants for them to share their comments and insights into DPM's keynote address. This was carried in The Straits Times on June 7.
CHAN JEE KUN (MRS)
Director
Curriculum Planning and Development
Ministry of Education
--------------------------------------------
What a load of horsecrap!!! The media kit says and I quote "If at any time you are independently approached by a member of the press... give a listening ear to the request but politely decline to be interviewed."
That sure sounds like an instruction not advice. Or can't our vaunted Ministry of Education, who constantly produces world class students, tell the difference? -
load of crap it is.
I think they can't even think of any reasons or explanations to it anymore.
It's just like answering the question on whether the glass is half full or half empty. -
i suggest you find out more about the local design industry before opening your gap of truth and wisdom.Originally posted by chaar123:Remember what some minister once said "Creativity can only be conditioned in a DISCIPLINED environment" that is b UL L SHIT! U should let go to let all possibilities be available... but anywayz that is Singapore.. Lucky I wont have to be here forever...
When was the last time anyone ever saw a local TV COMMERCIAL winning an award??? Anyone?
http://www.kinetic.com.sg
i'm glad you won't be here forever. ungrateful scum like you should leave as soon as possible. -
Even more ridiculous, the organisers claim to have a list of students that was allowed to talk to the press.
They did publish some responses given by the students, but they're so politically positive that i wonder if they were from the list the organisers gave. -
Exactly, everything must be done with the all-seeing eye of big brother, all responses must be by an officially sanctioned list of respondents, no independent views are allowed.Originally posted by Stevenson101:Even more ridiculous, the organisers claim to have a list of students that was allowed to talk to the press.
They did publish some responses given by the students, but they're so politically positive that i wonder if they were from the list the organisers gave.
I've said this before elsewhere and I'll say it again, Our push for creativity and entrepreneurship is doomed to fail until those in power in Singapore realise that creativity/entrepreneurship and tight controls are 2 mutually exclusive events and cannot co-exist with one another. You cannot have both together, and the leadership has to choose one and give up the other.
One path has brought us as far as it can go and will lead us nowhere, the other will open new doors. -
Even though I am usually on the pro-government side, this time I have to admit that I share similar sentiments as you.Originally posted by Parka: load of crap it is.
I think they can't even think of any reasons or explanations to it anymore.
It's just like answering the question on whether the glass is half full or half empty. -
But is it a door that leads to the horrors of the past or to the brighter future?
One path has brought us as far as it can go and will lead us nowhere, the other will open new doors.
No paths will ever go nowhere but the wrong path will bring you right back to where you've begun.
Cynical though this opinion may be, but do not forget that communism and facism also opened new doors.
One should look towards the future with hope but never forget the lessons of the past. -
Originally posted by Stevenson101:Even more ridiculous, the organisers claim to have a list of students that was allowed to talk to the press.
They did publish some responses given by the students, but they're so politically positive that i wonder if they were from the list the organisers gave. The first thing that comes to mind is that even if they are asked to comment, the comments are those that are pre-prepared not by the students. -
I stand corrected, I think a more appropriate statement would be "One path has brought us as far as we can go, while the other opens new doors"Originally posted by Stevenson101:But is it a door that leads to the horrors of the past or to the brighter future?
No paths will ever go nowhere but the wrong path will bring you right back to where you've begun.
Cynical though this opinion may be, but do not forget that communism and facism also opened new doors.
One should look towards the future with hope but never forget the lessons of the past.
Communism and facism has indeed opened new doors, but the path of creativity that is open to us should we take that path would unlikely open the same doors communism and facism did, would it? -
Well, I doubt the organisers would go that far as to get the students to read from a script, what I believe is that the students were interviewed by the press with minders (human Dobermans) within earshot.Originally posted by Parka: The first thing that comes to mind is that even if they are asked to comment, the comments are those that are pre-prepared not by the students.
In the landscape like what we have here, would they dare to say anything out of line with what officialdom wants to hear?
Which is why the students were "advised" not to let the press conduct independent interviews. Because without human Dobermans around, the students might actually speak their mind! And thats no good for Singapore isn't it *dripping with sarcasm*
"Advised"...my a**e! -
Given the history of humanity, i wouldn't be so sure myself.
but the path of creativity that is open to us should we take that path would unlikely open the same doors communism and facism did, would it? -
x2Originally posted by [ Neo ]:Even though I am usually on the pro-government side, this time I have to admit that I share similar sentiments as you.
I'm usually pro-govt, but i'm generally anti-'education' ministry . . .
i think the response from the ministry was trash. And if the students really need instructions to know how to decline an interview, it only shows their clone nature and lack of ability to do anything without being specifically taught and told how to do it.
not bad, straits times has never or seldom published this kind of stuff till now. I hope they keep up this good work and lend some credibility to local media on local issues. -
Laser51088, I must applaude you.Originally posted by laser51088:x2
I'm usually pro-govt, but i'm generally anti-'education' ministry . . .
i think the response from the ministry was trash. And if the students really need instructions to know how to decline an interview, it only shows their clone nature and lack of ability to do anything without being specifically taught and told how to do it.
not bad, straits times has never or seldom published this kind of stuff till now. I hope they keep up this good work and lend some credibility to local media on local issues.
You have hit head on, on a major nail that is currently still obstructing and hindering on the progress of the nation's full potential towards manpower optimization.
The focus on the abilty to take in hard, logical and 'scientific' facts, memorize them and then to subsequently regurgitate the memorised facts has long been an established and undeniable phenomena in the local Educational focus.
While I take pride in noting that our progress in this area is ranked and recognized throughout the world through the achievement of excellence preformance in International Competitions, I also lament on the tragedy of our inadequate focus on areas that contain a less 'scientific' and logic driven nature.
To cut the words short so as to avoid digressing from the topic, important areas such as foreign languages, arts, philosophy, and cultural studies are but familiar names of specializations that has had a long history of being left cold.
As a small nation who is highly dependent on international trade and relations, I really feel very strongly that the underappreciation of these seemingly 'commercial less valued' areas is a potentially dangerous pithole.
Just as our primary cores in the maritime, semiconducters, electronics, and manufacturing industries would serve in a similar order as the line 'depts' in an organization, the contributions from underappreciated areas such as foreign languages and cultural studies would serve the country well in the likeness to the supporting 'depts'.
The cloning and unidirectional thinking that you have mentioned as in your above post has to undergo reconsideration for the world itself does not run on on our familiar SG system. If we dun start to shape up now and embrace Education with a global perspective, we'll only end up strangling ourselves eventually. -
after looking at all the comments i relived alot of thoughts that i had while i was a student. and turth to be said i am going to be a student again, this time in NUS, after my time in national service
however now i have differents views than when i was a student..
all these talk act focused on y the government shudnt be so authoritarian and be more relaxed.
but we shud take into consideration how our country started. During that period of chaos and over-shadowing neighbours the government had to maintain a high level of control... control meaning directing how the country will progress. be it in economic matters, educational matters or even social probs. all that for a new country a new government. i may sound pro-gov here but i believe its because most ppl here are anti-govern.. anyway thats just a feeling i have..
and so how long has it been since we declared independency??
i wud say not long enough....
the prob here is we are getting alot of exposure to other countries.
countries like america, the european countries
these countries enjoy great freedom and naturally we are affected
now we want it too...
but our country is realli different from them
for one we have no natural resources not even land
had we had land like malaysia imagine what a hub we can become
but even now malaysia is undercutting us because land is cheap
this is the peril that singapore faces
so relate this to the topic. if so singapore onli has its population as a form of resource.. which explains why the education system is geared as such
engineers were required in the last 2 decades
so... the universities had engineering courses now bio-eng is the point
the point here is singapore is realli struggling to survive in this biting world and the government needs to plan for the future
how did we get this far?
creativity definitely has its merits and should never be ignored
but how much is the question....
unity may be what we need isnt it?
or diversity?
isnt that going to be a risk?
a risk for the future of singapore?
thats quite abit -
Dke,
[quote]Originally posted by dke:
after looking at all the comments i relived alot of thoughts that i had while i was a student. and turth to be said i am going to be a student again, this time in NUS, after my time in national service
however now i have differents views than when i was a student..
all these talk act focused on y the government shudnt be so authoritarian and be more relaxed.
but we shud take into consideration how our country started. During that period of chaos and over-shadowing neighbours the government had to maintain a high level of control... control meaning directing how the country will progress. be it in economic matters, educational matters or even social probs. all that for a new country a new government.
You're right when you say that the situation in the 60s and 70s demanded strong control and a tight lid on things. But this is the 21st century, what kind of "chaos and over-shadowing neighbours" are we facing now? Malaysia? Please. Not looking down on them, but they know as much as we do not to rock the boat. The communists are long gone. Or do you mean the chaos sowed by bankrupt oppositionists who sell books at MRT stations or the ones who live in 3-room flats in Toa Payoh and drive a van around? The same old line has been hashed over and over again by the government, but its wearing thin and no longer making sense.
i may sound pro-gov here but i believe its because most ppl here are anti-govern.. anyway thats just a feeling i have..
Anti government? I take it you never visit sammyboys forum or places like sintercom's forums. IMO the opinions here are quite fair and balanced here compared to other forums I've seen. You'd think from the views there the PAP was the Devil incarnate.
FYI I'm not pro- or anti-government. I just think there are a lot of improvements can be made in governing and running Singapore, but I do give credit where its due as well.
and so how long has it been since we declared independency??
i wud say not long enough....
So whats long enough? 100 years? 200 years? A thousand?
the prob here is we are getting alot of exposure to other countries.
countries like america, the european countries
these countries enjoy great freedom and naturally we are affected
now we want it too...
but our country is realli different from them
I don't know about the others but I do not want us to emulate the UK and US. This is another myth that the ruling party's propaganda machine has perpatuated among those who do not understand the nature of the changes that the younger set here are clamouring for.
What we want is the relaxation of the draconian rules regarding people speaking out and promoting discourse and exchanging ideas. Key to this is the removing of the "Politics for politicians" mindset that seems to have a stranglehold on the ruling party and the majority of the people in Singapore. We're Singaporeans all of us, we pay our taxes, the men have served their time defending the country, and the policies that shape Singapore have a direct and very real impact on all of us whehter they succeed or fail, so why can't we have more say in it?
for one we have no natural resources not even land
had we had land like malaysia imagine what a hub we can become
but even now malaysia is undercutting us because land is cheap
this is the peril that singapore faces
so relate this to the topic. if so singapore onli has its population as a form of resource.. which explains why the education system is geared as such
engineers were required in the last 2 decades
so... the universities had engineering courses now bio-eng is the point
the point here is singapore is realli struggling to survive in this biting world and the government needs to plan for the future
how did we get this far?
Yes but that is exactly why the authorities need to step back and let market forces dictate the supply and demand of grduates. The problem with our version of social engineering is that such beureaucratic (sp?)intervention, while having good intentions is almost always not nimble enough to cope with the changes in market forces. More so in todays dynamic global economy, where market forces shift on the drop of a hat. Just look at the population policy as another example of social engineering gone haywire.
creativity definitely has its merits and should never be ignored
but how much is the question....
unity may be what we need isnt it? or diversity?
Suppressing our opinions and thoughts about doesn't promote unity and understanding of our diversity. It provides a semblance of it by keeping people quiet through a culture of fear. Only if we are allowed proper discourse will true unity and understanding be promoted through a frank (but rational) exchange of ideas and opinions
isnt that going to be a risk?
a risk for the future of singapore?
Like I said, the old system has served us well in the past. But in recent years it has become rather glaringly obvious that the system is becoming an anachronism that has no place in the modern world and we run a very real risk of being left behind.
As it is, the government is reluctant even to fine-tune the system, not the mention the "Leave no stones unturned" and "No cow is too sacred to be slaughtered" the various wayang-committees trumpeted when they were first announced.
Isn't being stuck in the comfort zone of our own past success and refusing to change for the future to make adjustments for a new world more risky?
THe misunderstanding here is that we're not calling for a total shake up or removing all the controls, what we call for is a greater space for the people to particpate and contribute in national issues -
[quote]You're right when you say that the situation in the 60s and 70s demanded strong control and a tight lid on things. But this is the 21st century, what kind of "chaos and over-shadowing neighbours" are we facing now? Malaysia? Please. Not looking down on them, but they know as much as we do not to rock the boat. The communists are long gone. Or do you mean the chaos sowed by bankrupt oppositionists who sell books at MRT stations or the ones who live in 3-room flats in Toa Payoh and drive a van around? The same old line has been hashed over and over again by the government, but its wearing thin and no longer making sense.
that is in the military sense....... but what about the economical prob? can u deny that we are being undercut by malaysia especially when important companies like Merask go to their port?
its a fact that malaysia is cheap for company set-ups which is y in recent years it has become more attractive. in singapore though things are alot more competitive.. which is y the system is geared towards churning out engineers especially.. i would say that it is increasingly becoming more and more dificult for our economy to survive but perhaps that may be a little too pesimistic...
but well this is the reason the education system is geared in such a manner.. BUT no doubt its out-dated i agree, still it has its merits and results..
in my opinion the singaporean market needs guidence because its small and because of that little changes can cause a big ripple, which as u mentioned occurs at the drop of the hat,,, few companies are willing to invest in sing due to its limited capacity and there is the risk of monopoly if a private company does come in..heh i wonder if u agree....
and what is long enough? haha that is realli difficult to say but a few decades of indepedence simply isnt enough.. heritage does count and heritage comes from the experience gained through generations now the general mentality is simply to earn money get a car a house blah blah at least generally as a whole our country hasnt realli matured and that shows in the mentality of the ppl like the person who came up with the idea of telling students not to comment..
all in all i guess i forgot to say the few decades isnt realli enough for the govern to break their habits which are more veered on the authoritarian side.. but there is a reason y its like that
and i do agree that things shud change then again things always change... but singapore is realli small changes can bring about alot of other changes
lots of considerations shud be taken into account
heh this is realli interesting but i still prefer to talk
it is realli difficult to convey what u want to say through typing
haiz
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[quote]Originally posted by dke:
that is in the military sense....... but what about the economical prob? can u deny that we are being undercut by malaysia especially when important companies like Merask go to their port?
The decision MSC and Evergreen to move to PTP was due in a big part to the arrogance of the ex-minister running PSA who arrogantly refused to lower handling charges and give preference to big customers like them in running a couple of their own berths, claiming "premium prices for best service" (a line constantly fed to Singaporeans). A few months after they left(kicking PSA and Singapore in the teeth), PSA lowered their berthing costs and allowed shipping lines to operate their own berths? Why did they wait to be kicked before they acted?
The lower charges offered by PTP were only a small part of the equation, both companies have stated publicly that their preference was to stay in Singapore despite the higher costs, if not for PSA's arrogant ways of negotiating the new contract.
If you read other sources of news rather than the local propaganda, you'll know all this.
its a fact that malaysia is cheap for company set-ups which is y in recent years it has become more attractive. in singapore though things are alot more competitive.. which is y the system is geared towards churning out engineers especially..
Yes, and a not insignificant number of the engineers we churn out production line methods are selling hawker food or twiddling their thumbs at home.
i would say that it is increasingly becoming more and more dificult for our economy to survive but perhaps that may be a little too pesimistic...
but well this is the reason the education system is geared in such a manner.. BUT no doubt its out-dated i agree, still it has its merits and results..
It HAD it merits and results. Thats not the case now and its time to change before its too late.
in my opinion the singaporean market needs guidence because its small and because of that little changes can cause a big ripple, which as u mentioned occurs at the drop of the hat,,, few companies are willing to invest in sing due to its limited capacity and there is the risk of monopoly if a private company does come in..heh i wonder if u agree....
Yes I do agree, but aren'y there monopolies in the economy now with practically everything from telcos to casket services being run by GLCs? Whats the difference between GLC monopoly and MNC monopoly? I've heard the argument that gov't monopolies will look after the people and the country unlike MNCs which look only after their bottom line, but look at Singtel and Starhub, do you think there're looking out for Singaporeans with their wayang lawsuits?
The fact is that big ripples in the world economy that affect Singapore are happening whether we make changes or not. We can change to make the best of these big ripples, or we can hide in our shells, insist that the way things are right and will always be right, and let these big ripples pull us under...
now the general mentality is simply to earn money get a car a house blah blah at least generally as a whole our country hasnt realli matured and that shows in the mentality of the ppl like the person who came up with the idea of telling students not to comment..
And who profited the most in promoting Singaporeans craze for their overpriced pigeon holes and powered wagons? Who is the employer of the person who told the students not to speak out?
all in all i guess i forgot to say the few decades isnt realli enough for the govern to break their habits which are more veered on the authoritarian side.. but there is a reason y its like that
Of course there's reasons, and IMO chief among those is to protect their interests and keep their hold on power.
and i do agree that things shud change then again things always change... but singapore is realli small changes can bring about alot of other changes
lots of considerations shud be taken into account
I don't really think thats an excuse to site idle and be self content in our past success and insist that thats the way for a better future (despite evidence to the contrary) issit?
I'm not questioning the track record, I'm questioning if their plan for the future is the correct plan for ensuring Singapore will be a better place to live in in the future. -
[/b]Originally posted by Viper52:Yes, and a not insignificant number of the engineers we churn out production line methods are selling hawker food or twiddling their thumbs at home.
true.... thats one of the reason y i chose not to take engineering
It [b]HAD it merits and results. Thats not the case now and its time to change before its too late.[/b]
so.... change what?
Yes I do agree, but aren'y there monopolies in the economy now with practically everything from telcos to casket services being run by GLCs? Whats the difference between GLC monopoly and MNC monopoly? I've heard the argument that gov't monopolies will look after the people and the country unlike MNCs which look only after their bottom line, but look at Singtel and Starhub, do you think there're looking out for Singaporeans with their wayang lawsuits?
i cant say that i agree with what they are doing but that is one issue right? But look at it this way, how many ppl own handphones now?
The fact is that big ripples in the world economy that affect Singapore are happening whether we make changes or not. We can change to make the best of these big ripples, or we can hide in our shells, insist that the way things are right and will always be right, and let these big ripples pull us under...
My point is in any economy there must always be a balance of free market forces AND command market forces. its the balance of these 2 that will make the economy STABLE thats the key. so far singapore has been realli stable compared to other economies in the region.. i am not saying we should hide in our shells todays open world economy does not allow that but instead we shud be cautious (maybe i am a careful person). and no we cannot insist things are right if they are wrong then they are wrong
And who profited the most in promoting Singaporeans craze for their overpriced pigeon holes and powered wagons? Who is the employer of the person who told the students not to speak out?
the reason the cars are so expensive is realli to maintain control of the number of vehicles there are on the road the prices are already this high but look.. the sales are not going down~! its veri possible we may end up like thailand some day if there isnt enuff control here u know
Of course there's reasons, and IMO chief among those is to protect their interests and keep their hold on power.
well some ppl do think that way.. and i dun dispute them but i dun tink that way
I don't really think thats an excuse to site idle and be self content in our past success and insist that thats the way for a better future (despite evidence to the contrary) issit?
are we sitting idle?
I'm not questioning the track record, I'm questioning if their plan for the future is the correct plan for ensuring Singapore will be a better place to live in in the future.
i agree but a plan in this magnitude has to be long drawn out things do not change overnight