Singapore At War
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If a war with neighbouring country occurs,
are you willing to die for your country? Do you believe that SAF has the abilities to win the war considering the fighter planes, warships and the soldiers that we have? If a missile is fired from the neighbouring country, do you think we have the capability to counter the missile before it reaches Singapore? -
To Opposition Party,
If you want my opinion, my answer for all the questions = NO.
However we might just be able to win a battle with a smaller country, by brains. Definitely not by brawns.
cheers
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Chromeheart Minds: The Endless Search for Intellectual Freedom -
NO!!! dun ever forget SG is just a small tiny red dot on the world map, n given SG small 390 millions population, we have very little chances in winning the war if there is no additional external helps from countries like USA, u think we can win the war by ourselves??? the answer is no.
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tongue in cheek reply...........by brains, meaning for example by placating and aid to neighbouring countries in form of billions of dollars......Singapore's dollars so that they will be so grateful to us they will feel paiseh or think twice b4 attacking us? that's quite brainy an idea too, dun u think guys? read it all here.
http://www.gn.apc.org/sfd/ -
In pure military terms we will definitely win. And not just win. We will crush them. For those who are so quick to jump to the most dire conclusions, kindly consider and compare the military forces in the region with a critical and objective eye. Think of the mostly invaders, then look at our capabilities and you'll understand why MINDEF is confident.
Many Singaporeans come out of NS with vague ideas of our defensive capabilities and even lower morale and confidence thanks to nasty encounters with seemingly incompetent officers and regular staff. Don't let this cloud your judgment.
We may be a small red dot, but that's a meaningless fact. Israel is a fraction of the size of the Arab nations, yet defeated every one of them in successive wars. Size doesn't matter.
There have been a lot of posts on this topic. It appears to me that most have given little, if any, thought about the subject before strumming out their opinions.
oppositionparty, what's the big deal about a missile striking Singapore? We can't defend against every projectile hurled against us, but the same is true in reverse. Neither can they. And conventional missiles do not cause much damage. Anyone who performs this silly act is an imbecile squandering his very limited stocks of very expensive missiles in a totally pointless bombardment. -
how i hope we have 390 million people !Originally posted by adrian xtc:n given SG small 390 millions population,
we got so many meh ? hehehehe
you mean 3.9 million right ?
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hehe, that's a mistake.
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dun worry, i think you got mixed up between the chinese way and the english way of saying the "million" right ? You're not a lone, many pple out there are just as confused. hehe :pOriginally posted by adrian xtc:hehe, that's a mistake. -
ya loh, esp with so many digits.
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frankly,i think that we go to a war,we can only defend and not invade,and even if we defend,there is only a short period we can defend due to war's attrition rate.So we can win the war if it's a short one,but a long drawn out war,we may not be able to hold on that long
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moose, I assure you that if we go to war with our northern neighbour, we will not be defending. We will take the fight to them on their turf. You forgot the water.
Your logic is suspect too. If we can only defend for a short period, then we have basically lost.
[This message has been edited by Quisling (edited 27 March 2000).] -
SG could never win a war with its current military strength and technology...
Therefore the government was smart enough to have concentrated on political adn economical....
picture this...if other countries have investments in SG, do u think they would want to attack us...they might even volunteer to help us out during crisis. -
Conventional missiles are useless against us? Are you kiddin? Singapore is densely populated. How many HDB blocks do you think the enemy will have to blow down before the govt. gives up?
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And how many HDB blocks can be demolished by the limited number of expensive missiles our neighbours have in their arsenal? What is the opportunity cost of using missiles on HDB blocks? Meaning, which of our military targets will be left unmolested because the missiles are used on HDB blocks instead? And finally, how exactly does destroying HDB blocks diminish our military ability?
Are you kidding? -
Quisling, forget it. Arguing defence capabilities with people totally ignorant about strategic issues and the exact military capability of countries in the region is a total waste of time.
No offence to the other posts. This is a very common problem. How many people in S'pore actually have knowledge of S'pore's military capabilities and the neighbouring countries?
I have, because it's my childhood passion and now my ricebowl.
Can S'pore win a war? If it's in the region (the ONLY possible case), it's a no-contest. We'll win. No doubt. Why? Part of it has to do with what we can do. The more important thing is what THEY can do.
Let me ask a few questions to the doubters out there. These questions may NOT have an effect on whether S'pore can win or not, but it'll show how much about defence in S'pore and the region u know in the first place.
1) How many soldiers can the SAF put in the field? Inclusive of regulars, NSFs and NSmen (remember they're ALL part of the SAF. NS does NOT end after ORD)
2) How many soldiers can our northern neighbour (the ONLY one with a land link to us) put in the field? Inclusive of their Volunteer Corps (ignoring their minimal training)
3) Which country in the region has any kind of strategic or tactical SSM? (Surface-to-surface missiles....the one all of u are so worried about)
4) How many naval bases do the Malaysians and the Indonesians have and where are they?
5) What is the operational status of the much-vaunted Malaysian MIG-29 squadron?
6) How many missile-armed ships do the Malaysians have and what is the range of the MM-40 Exocet missile compared to the Harpoon used by S'pore? Likewise for Indonesia.
7) How many tanks do the Malaysians have and what is the size of their mechanised infantry? Similarly, what about S'pore?
The SAF is the most highly-respected and rated armed forces in the region by the US and most European nations. Why?
9) When ths SAF takes part in tactical (NOT training) exercises with foreign countries (even the US), who wins most of the time?
The answers to most of these questions are not really classified. Of course, S'pore's exact capabilites are classified. But lots of these answers can simply be found in Jane's Defence.
War is not such a simple thing. Besides the hardware, you need the men, the firepower, the logistical support and the will to win.
Israel thrashed the Arabs in the 60s because they were good. But what happened to them now? In 1972 (or was in 1976? one of them..), their commandoes could execute the daring Entebbe anti-terrorist raid. Now, MOSSAD can't even handle a simple task like killing a terrorist leader. 30 over years of peace had softened the Israeli armed forces. In the 60s, they were full of passion for defending their young state. Years of peace and the complacency which followed resulted in the drop in standard. The younger generation now question the value of national security and defence.
The same thing is happening to S'pore. Undoubtly, training-wise, support-wise and by sheer force of arms, we are superior to the others in the region, but what I doubt is the will of S'poreans to fight and win.
All male citizens above 18 pledged their "allegiance to the President", "to support and defend the Constitution" and "to preserve and protect the honour and independence of our country with our lives". These lines are taken from the SAF Pledge.
How many of you actually understood what you've pledged yourself to and lived by it?
What does the SAF lack? Pride in the service. War experience. Larger naval platforms. A main battle tank with a larger main gun.
Some of these are material and can be obtained, like the new frigates coming in by 2009. Others can't. War experience is not too bad as all the countries in the region all lack it. But if we have no pride in the service, we'll never make it.
Have a bit more faith in the SAF and more pride in it. Some of the people in it are screwed-up but this is the case in any organisation. As a whole, the SAF is still good as a defence force and we CAN win wars. -
Many people i talk to don't think that Singapore can be defended. I wonder why.
Isn't it then obvious that we've lost out on this psychological aspect of defense? -
Altrex wrote:
Quisling, forget it. Arguing defence capabilities with people totally ignorant about strategic issues and the exact military capability of countries in the region is a total waste of time.
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In my view, this is a very dangerous position to take because an army is made up of its soldiers. Officers lead in battle but ultimately you need the men to be confident of winning the war before you can win the war. If a large percentage of our population, even NS-men think that Singapore can't be defended, then we have a serious problem at hand.
You make the comparison with Israel but you forget that Israel has a strong war-fighting tradition. They have Uncle Sam's assistance, even not in men but in arms. And most importantly, they have nuclear weapons.
What do we have? A fine fighting force on paper, superior to everything the region has on paper, and a very low state of NS morale. All the enemy has to do is wage a strong psychological war on us and I'm afraid we we might not be able to hold out for long.....
Let me ask you, why doesn't our govt and SAF do more to correct this psychological perception and create the confidence in our men that we can win? I want to believe that we can win too but with so many of my friends and other forum writers thinking otherwise, it's kind of scary......... -
we can't go around shouting "I WILL KILL ANY INVADERS!!" everyday. Your career may be in the Military hence you feel it everyday, but not us.Originally posted by Altrex:the others in the region, but what I doubt is the will of S'poreans to fight and win
Before a war starts, the government will need to stir up the feelings of the people to fight. Sometimes, this is achieved through the mass media. So that we develop hatred in our enemy and vow to slice them to pieces. But such things should only come in times of war, not everyday, otherwise we will be living in hatred.
In the Chinese Art of War, the first 2 things you must have before starting a war is Money, followed by *reason*. The people must fight for a reason. The reason may be for food (possible North Korea war??), for freedom (William Wallace) or hatred etc etc. But there must be a reason. And by looking at the kind of tension being build-up between Singapore and M'sia, sometimes, it is indeed worrying .... we have too many reasons to go into a war .... -
first...singapore wont go into a war with another country...we are not so stupid..think of the conscquences.....eceonomic meltdown...social disorders blah blah..
if you mean that if singapore can defend against a hostile nation..well the answer is yes...but if you want singapore to attack another country..
well unles the governmemt ask all the 4 million people in singapore to fight!!!!
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Born to be wild... -
Singapore won't go to war? Hmmmm.. of course we won't wage war when there is peace and harmony and prosperity and where there is so much to lose....
But think about it.. a horrendous scenario if our Northern and Southern neighbours become very aggressive and violent against us... given their relative weakness in weaponery but strength in numbers.... think of what they can do to us without even resorting to an all out military war......
I put forward a few suggestions. 1) water 2)food 3) trade 4) sea-lanes 5) air-space
YikeS!....... -
Once again i will like to reiterate that most wars do not occur due to design but *accidents*Originally posted by Carrots:first...singapore wont go into a war with another country...we are not so stupid..think of the conscquences.....eceonomic meltdown...social disorders blah blah.. -
Altrex, I'm pretty impressed by your analysis that Singapore can actually fight and win a war, although I'm not sure how true it is.
Just wondering, which single defence is the most crucial to Singapore's defence, Airforce, Army or Navy? Let me ask the question this way. If we have to reduce the size of one of those three services, which one should we reduce so that it will not affect our defence as much as reducing one of the other two?
Personally I feel that it is the Army. I foresee most ferocious altercation coming first from either the air or the sea. -
Well, all these talks about Singapore's defence abilities. Why does Singapore build up on its military capabilities, not for war but for peace. Singapore will not be able to stand just on military grounds. That is why the defence of Singapore incorporates more than that, and device out their defence policy. What are the five type of defence anyone?? (Oh my, I sound like I'm doing a propaganda for the government.)
Anyway, just look at Taiwan and China. What is holding China back from attacking Taiwan?
If you can answer those questions, point taken?? -
By the way, about the morales or psychological thingie......it is during times of peace where you will never feel that Nationalist spirit. Just look at China again. Complaints about unemployment, corruption, etc, but when the Chinese embassy got bombed, and when Taiwan indicated its wish to break away from the motherland, where did all the Nationalist spirit suddenly come from??
Anyone watched BraveHeart?? The people didn't seem very motivated if u remember one of the war scenes, but when Sir William Wallace stepped out, and led the people, where did the nationalist spirit come from?? That is why the leader is important, and that is why Singapore is investing so much in producing these leaders. -
Revelation,
please allow me to side-track a bit ...
don't believe too much about what you watched in BraveHeart. I personally loved that show and had watched it more than 20 times (on VCD) and I had also personally went to Scotland to know more about this man called William Wallace. I had also went to Stirling, the place where William Wallace won the war against the English (not the one you saw on movie !). I had read about him, talk to experts (Scottish doing history) about him and to my atonishment, he was not the man who was being portrayed in BraveHeart ! Quite disappointing ....