Singapore At War

• Patriotic Tim

  14 Oct 01, 09:47

  In the source, how many missiles the T90S can carry and weather it have a radar anot is mentioned. I saw the T90S in a series of VCD called Firepower2000. Its shows the T90S demonstrating its capabilities in the United Arab Emirates. It is being exposed to a desert battlefield. Maybe the T90S is most effectively used in this kind of warfare? Russian tanks has an advantage in open plains because of their fashion of making tanks low and flat. e.g T72.
• Shotgun

  14 Oct 01, 21:51

  Which makes it a wonder why Malaysia wishes to use T-90s in the local enviroment.
• Shotgun

  15 Oct 01, 11:17

  Btw, the Malaysians are probably gonna get their Su-30MKs. The Russians aren't just starting the line for Malaysia's purchases, but rather together with India's order for the initial 40. India's order may rise up to 100 Su-30MKIs. Either the Malaysians will recieve the same configurations the Indian air force or a default export version. The Indian Su-30s are very err, "customized."
  
  Their Su-30MKIs include AL-37F with thrust vectoring nozzels as well as several french avionics. Maybe Malaysia might recieve the same configuration... or maybe they will just get the old AL-31s. I mean, all we have to do is have President Nathan fly over to India to have a little tea-time chat right?
  
  In anycase, RSAF Typhoons are still gonna come up tops. Most already believe the Typhoon to be 2nd only to the F-22, yet at only fraction of the price. In fact, there is a vicious rumor that Typhoons were specifically designed to counter Su-27 and its family. Nah, I don't think so... I doubt the RSAF will do something so bad as to counter Malaysia's future purchase.......
• YourFather

  15 Oct 01, 12:42

  Well, actually what you heard was NOT a rumour. It is true. One of the program goals was to be able to defeat the next generation Soviet fighter, which happens to be the SU-37 and SU-30MKIs... It seems the Malaysians will have the SU-30MKE, which is based on the MKI with a few modifications...meaning they will be getting a very good fighter... do you really think they will do something stupid like buying 2 fighter designs again? (Flankers and SuperHornets). I'd rather they buy Russian, as Russian aircraft can be handled from long range due to less capable avionics...If they get the SuperHornet along with the IDECM... it might be bad for us...
• Shotgun

  15 Oct 01, 21:40

  If the Malaysians still don't cooperate with the US with terrorist investigations. They can kiss their Superhornets goodbye.
  
  However, don't underestimate Russian fighters and avionics. Russian fighters can easily be "refurbished" with french, or german avionics. Then again, both European nations are on very good terms with Singapore.......
  
  Given a proper AWACS and air traffic control, flankers can be a more than troublesome to handle.
• YourFather

  15 Oct 01, 22:39

  Originally posted by Shotgun:

  If the Malaysians still don't cooperate with the US with terrorist investigations. They can kiss their Superhornets goodbye.
  
  However, don't underestimate Russian fighters and avionics. Russian fighters can easily be "refurbished" with french, or german avionics. Then again, both European nations are on very good terms with Singapore.......
  
  Given a proper AWACS and air traffic control, flankers can be a more than troublesome to handle.

  As for them kissing their Hornets goodbye... I dont think they will be that drastic. Also, recently, their current Hornets just got the ASPJ jammer pod from USA. For their Flankers, yah, I forgot that the MKE version will have foreign avionics, though I dont think France and Germany will give a hoot about our relations with them when it comes to business.
  You think they will get the Flanker, or the SuperHornet, or both?
  
• Shotgun

  15 Oct 01, 22:43

  If they are smart, they will get the flankers. If they are dumb, (which they are), they will get the Superhornets. =)
• YourFather

  16 Oct 01, 12:14

  Originally posted by Shotgun:

  If they are smart, they will get the flankers. If they are dumb, (which they are), they will get the Superhornets. =)

  update for ya guys:
  
  Russia: French company to help SU-30MK fighter win Malaysian tender
  
  The French company Tales is involved in development of on-board equipment for the SU-30MK multifunctional fighter that Russia is planning to put up for a Malaysian tender, Tales representative in Malaysia and Brunei Francois Dupond said on Friday. The fighter will be put up jointly by the Rosoboronexport state-owned arms trader, Sukhoi aircraft corporation and Irkutsk Aircraft Production Association (IAPO), Dupond told Interfax-Military News Agency.
  
  Tales has a huge experience in co-operation with Russian developers and producers of avionics, the representative said. The company's experts took part in development of on-board equipment for the MIG-AT trainer, as well as for the SU-30MKI Flanker fighter, which Rosoboronexport and IAPO are exporting to India.
  
  The Malaysian variant of SU-30MK will have the cabin's information and control field designed on fifth-generation plane technologies, Dupond said. The minimum of liquid crystal displays will provide the maximum of data for the pilot, which will allow the crew to keep its attention on the main task - piloting and conducting combat operations. The second peculiarity of the SU-30MK avionics is application of laser gyroscopes that, unlike regular gyroscopes, guarantee high accuracy of aerial navigation.
  
  Dupond did not specify the volume of works that Tales would be responsible for in the course of the SU-30MK design, saying only that his company's participation in the project would be very broad.
  
  
• Shotgun

  18 Oct 01, 01:26

  oh well, what can i say? French gonna accept barter trade too?
• Patriotic Tim

  21 Oct 01, 12:34

  I saw the launch of the METIs anti-tank missile at Channel Newsasia.com. I would like to say that its range is short and the picture features the missile flying vertically upwards. I know that the Russians are trying to attack from the top since one of the weakest part of an armoured vehicle is on the top for most tanks and armoured vehicles. The U.S Army Dragon Anti-tank missile works the same way too. If thats so, the future Singapore Army's light tank must add one more feature: High protection from above or ERA on the roof. The METIS is indeed a big threat. for you guy's infp, the Malaysian Army also operate the Eryx HEAVY short-range anti-tank missile. If the Royal Malaysian Army can't afford large tank fleet like Singapore, heavy and high-tech anti-tank missile can slow down a Singapore armour onslaught as stated in 'Defending the Lion City'.
• tripwire

  21 Oct 01, 17:38

  Originally posted by Patriotic Tim:

  I saw the launch of the METIs anti-tank missile at Channel Newsasia.com. I would like to say that its range is short and the picture features the missile flying vertically upwards. I know that the Russians are trying to attack from the top since one of the weakest part of an armoured vehicle is on the top for most tanks and armoured vehicles. The U.S Army Dragon Anti-tank missile works the same way too. If thats so, the future Singapore Army's light tank must add one more feature: High protection from above or ERA on the roof. The METIS is indeed a big threat. for you guy's infp, the Malaysian Army also operate the Eryx HEAVY short-range anti-tank missile. If the Royal Malaysian Army can't afford large tank fleet like Singapore, heavy and high-tech anti-tank missile can slow down a Singapore armour onslaught as stated in 'Defending the Lion City'.

  any form of resistance can slow SAF down... even cutting a tree and laying it across the road can create the same effect....
  
  the problem is not slowing us down... how far can you slow SAF down anyway??? even if you can slow SAF down for a day, a week or even a month... what can MAF do with a day, a week or a month??? train a whole new army in a day?? a week or a month??
  
  MAF still need to import many of their weapons and ammunitions plus spare parts from oversea.....mainly from european and russian supplier. how fast do you think a ship can move on the sea???
  
  AND with RSAF and RSN around... its gonna take a miracle to get those war materials into malaysia unmolested...
  
  What really matter... is the increase in casualty to SAF.... since singapore has a small population...
  
  BUT all is not lost... i already have a way out....hhahahaaaaa......
• m113apc

  22 Oct 01, 01:36

  which is?
• Patriotic Tim

  22 Oct 01, 22:05

  Originally posted by tripwire:

  any form of resistance can slow SAF down... even cutting a tree and laying it across the road can create the same effect....
  
  the problem is not slowing us down... how far can you slow SAF down anyway??? even if you can slow SAF down for a day, a week or even a month... what can MAF do with a day, a week or a month??? train a whole new army in a day?? a week or a month??
  
  MAF still need to import many of their weapons and ammunitions plus spare parts from oversea.....mainly from european and russian supplier. how fast do you think a ship can move on the sea???
  
  AND with RSAF and RSN around... its gonna take a miracle to get those war materials into malaysia unmolested...
  
  What really matter... is the increase in casualty to SAF.... since singapore has a small population...
  
  BUT all is not lost... i already have a way out....hhahahaaaaa......

  Ar huh? you way is.....?
• Shotgun

  23 Oct 01, 10:57

  First rule of jungle warfare, Eliminate the jungle.
  
  In anycase, the tanks can choose not to be slowed down if they opt to. Just blow up any damm tree you see in the way.
  
  In anycase, the AMX-13s need to be replaced soon. THe armor is worthless.
  
  Speaking of which, infantry men would probably suffer the most. They are lightly armed, and do not have any combat armor other than a helmet. A single bullet can finish him off.
• Joe Black

  23 Oct 01, 15:40

  Originally posted by Shotgun:

  In anycase, RSAF Typhoons are still gonna come up tops. Most already believe the Typhoon to be 2nd only to the F-22, yet at only fraction of the price. In fact, there is a vicious rumor that Typhoons were specifically designed to counter Su-27 and its family. Nah, I don't think so... I doubt the RSAF will do something so bad as to counter Malaysia's future purchase.......

  Why do you think that RSAF will get Typhoon? In fact I read reports that SuperHornets are their number 1 choice, followed by Rafale then Typhoon. F15E is probably their 4th followed by Su-30.
  
  Does anybody know if RSAF is looking at getting some Rafael Derby BVR missiles. They can give F-5S BVR capability for the first time without having to modify the GIFRO radar or much of the weapon control system.
  
  Lastly, there are reports that F-5S may be upgraded with HMS, but from which origin? Will it be the Israeli Dash-3 or the JHMS from US?
  
  Maybe RSAF should also look at getting either ASRAAM or AIM-9X.
  
  
• YourFather

  23 Oct 01, 18:47

  Originally posted by Joe Black:

  Why do you think that RSAF will get Typhoon? In fact I read reports that SuperHornets are their number 1 choice, followed by Rafale then Typhoon. F15E is probably their 4th followed by Su-30.
  
  Does anybody know if RSAF is looking at getting some Rafael Derby BVR missiles. They can give F-5S BVR capability for the first time without having to modify the GIFRO radar or much of the weapon control system.
  
  Lastly, there are reports that F-5S may be upgraded with HMS, but from which origin? Will it be the Israeli Dash-3 or the JHMS from US?
  
  Maybe RSAF should also look at getting either ASRAAM or AIM-9X.
  
  

  Did you get your info from ETS? I hope they dont go for the SuperHornet. Other than its performance deficiencies, if Malaysia gets them too, it could be troublesome... to say the least...However, its avionics will be pretty good (referring to its APG-79 radar and its IDECM suite as well as its ATFLIR pod, not the avionics for the first batch of SuperHornets which have F-18C/D avionics for the moment).
  
• aamramski

  24 Oct 01, 01:22

  Don't you think Malaysia can purchase systems made from France ie Matra which has the same qualities of the amraam or the python?By the way according to their budgetary news for next year they push for Russian planes but with WESTERN systems and RADAR suites.Even the Hornets got the green light.Consider Mcdonnel/boeing vs Lockheed Martin well this is a nice match up.Wonder which one better?Care to clear this question why so scared of OUR neighbours?Peace is much better think like WW2 then u r living in the past cummon think of the economy now!
• Joe Black

  24 Oct 01, 09:33

  Originally posted by Shotgun:

  First rule of jungle warfare, Eliminate the jungle.
  
  In anycase, the tanks can choose not to be slowed down if they opt to. Just blow up any damm tree you see in the way.
  
  In anycase, the AMX-13s need to be replaced soon. THe armor is worthless.
  
  Speaking of which, infantry men would probably suffer the most. They are lightly armed, and do not have any combat armor other than a helmet. A single bullet can finish him off.

  In my opinion, SAF should get the likes of M8 to replace the AMX-13SM1, and probably a few upgraded Lepoard 1A5s to replace the Centurions. Alternative to the Lepoards are the M60S (M60 with M1 turret) or Sabre (Israeli modified M60).
  
  As for Infantrymen, I reckon SAF should upgrade the new locally made S-21 rifle with a lightweight grenade launcher (something smaller than the 40mm M201, eg. a 20mm grenade launcher with 3 to 5 rounds each - somewhat like a pump-action shotgun). It would give each men the firepower of something like the marines in the movie Aliens 2.
• YourFather

  24 Oct 01, 12:55

  Some update on Malaysia's purchase of MBTs, and payment form is, as expected, with palm oil (after all, what else do they have?)
  
  Malaysia may buy battle tanks under palm oil contertrade deal - report
  
  Malaysia may buy several main battle tanks under a countertrade arrangement, where part-payment could be in the form of palm oil and palm oil products, Business Times quoted industry sources as saying.
  
  "The countertrade can help promote palm oil in arms and weaponry-producing countries such as Russia, Turkey, the UK, Italy, France and the US," one industry source told the newspaper. "However, it is too soon to say. The agreement will be conducted on government-to-government basis," he added. The purchase would also be part of long-term development programmes such as transfer of technology, mutual maintenance programmes and other development programmes rather than a one-off deal, he said.
  
  
• Shotgun

  24 Oct 01, 14:19

  The typhoon deal is like almost confirmed. If you have been to the RSAF open house, u'd seen Typhoon models with RSAF insignias painted on them. The red lion.
• Patriotic Tim

  24 Oct 01, 17:26

  Originally posted by Joe Black:

  In my opinion, SAF should get the likes of M8 to replace the AMX-13SM1, and probably a few upgraded Lepoard 1A5s to replace the Centurions. Alternative to the Lepoards are the M60S (M60 with M1 turret) or Sabre (Israeli modified M60).
  
  As for Infantrymen, I reckon SAF should upgrade the new locally made S-21 rifle with a lightweight grenade launcher (something smaller than the 40mm M201, eg. a 20mm grenade launcher with 3 to 5 rounds each - somewhat like a pump-action shotgun). It would give each men the firepower of something like the marines in the movie Aliens 2.

  The SAR-21 already have a version fitted with a 40mm M-204 AGL. The AGL is slided into the Laser-Aiming Device's space while the Laser-Aiming Device is somewhere fitted beside the scope. I saw this at the SAR-21 website but i don't know if its in full production.
  
  
• Joe Black

  24 Oct 01, 19:19

  Originally posted by Patriotic Tim:

  The SAR-21 already have a version fitted with a 40mm M-204 AGL. The AGL is slided into the Laser-Aiming Device's space while the Laser-Aiming Device is somewhere fitted beside the scope. I saw this at the SAR-21 website but i don't know if its in full production.
  

  Yap, I think SAR-21 is already in full production. I thought I saw the soldiers carrying SAR-21 on NDP...
  
  I know Charter Industry did come up with SAR-21 that has an attached M203. What I would like to see is a version of SAR-21 that has the firepower of the American OIWS rifle (5.56mm/20mm combination weapon) plus the current laser aimming device.
• horizon

  30 Oct 01, 12:59

  say, i also see some Rafales in RSAF colours, so i guess RSAF is getting RAfales too? So let's not prejudge, Typhoon and RAfale are still almost equal favourites.
  If everyone of us are so sure of what RSAF is going to choose, and believe in our own choices; why not we guys at this forum have a fair bet, whoever got the correct warplane to be chosen by the RSAF in 1-2 years' time will get a treat from those who get it wrong.
  
  As a starter, my choice is Rafale B, any takers?
• Joe Black

  30 Oct 01, 14:32

  Originally posted by horizon:

  say, i also see some Rafales in RSAF colours, so i guess RSAF is getting RAfales too? So let's not prejudge, Typhoon and RAfale are still almost equal favourites.
  If everyone of us are so sure of what RSAF is going to choose, and believe in our own choices; why not we guys at this forum have a fair bet, whoever got the correct warplane to be chosen by the RSAF in 1-2 years' time will get a treat from those who get it wrong.
  
  As a starter, my choice is Rafale B, any takers?

  I can't join, but I like the chances of Rafale F2/F3
  
• Shotgun

  30 Oct 01, 15:57

  I'm backing the Typhoon fully. The rafale is a very capable multirole fighter. But, the typhoon is a primary built for air to air combat, with a secondary strike role. Also, the typhoon was built to counter future Su-27 variants such as Su-30s which malaysia is purchasing.