Singapore At War
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Lol. I didn't know they got the Alamos. I was thinking they had the Apex instead.
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Hi,all
We have the latest & best equipment in this region however the software(people) is very small.
Majority of the software is in the infantry. The important & strategic equipment are handled by the regular.
In Malaysia it is a professional army, like the Navy specops PASKAL modelled from the British SBS. Out of 100 only 10 passes the course basically 10%.
They have the same training & equipment as any specops in the world.
You have to ask yourself, if there is a war where will our family go when the men goes to war. Who will save them ?
Malaysian can be evacuated to Sabah & Sarawak
to regroup. Although we have stocks in Australia, Taiwan & Brunei but is too far.
No M1 tank or Apache helicopter can save us.
America will only help if it suits their interest. After that you have to buy American car and maybe change to 120V and use
inches instead of millimetre.
It is time that we respect the MAF for it is.
I still remember what my warrant officer said to me, how are we going to war when we get lost in Lim Chu Kang. He is now growing grapes in Australia. -
Ok, i see your point.But if your house is robbed, would you say to the robber "lets make peace?" You will still fight right?So it applies to a country,when it is invaded, the people will still fight on regardless of how strong the enemy is.Patrotism counts you see.
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Anyway, what if Malaysia secretly bought 100 T90s and send them roaring down the causeway?Do you think we can withstand them with our current forces?
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This thread been dead for sometime.... u trying to restart it by prodding singaporean patriots into posting??
Surely, if u have read the whole thread.... u would have realized that ..... what u just posted is .....*yawn*... stupid..
But.... like a true singaporean.... we hate to be put down... think we are gonna play right into your hand. :>Originally posted by psyop:Hi,all
We have the latest & best equipment in this region however the software(people) is very small.
*** Quality.... Not Quantity.... that is y man is king of the earth... not bugs.
Majority of the software is in the infantry. The important & strategic equipment are handled by the regular.
*** so??
In Malaysia it is a professional army, like the Navy specops PASKAL modelled from the British SBS. Out of 100 only 10 passes the course basically 10%.
*** *yawn*..... since when does the capability of a unit is based on how low the passing mark is??? A SEAL is a SEAL not because it has low passing numbers... but simply because of their capability.
*** An orang utan like PASKAL is still an orang utan even if the passing mark is 0.000000000000001 percent.
They have the same training & equipment as any specops in the world.
*** Dont waste time lah... Specops alone cannot win a war... specops has failed and died in war as well....
You have to ask yourself, if there is a war where will our family go when the men goes to war. Who will save them ?
*** save them from what??? the men are already in the front line defending them..
Malaysian can be evacuated to Sabah & Sarawak
to regroup. Although we have stocks in Australia, Taiwan & Brunei but is too far.
*** malaysian can evacuate to sabah and sarawak???? oh.... i didnt know malaysian can swim 600km of south china sea with barang barang.... wwhaaaaa.... must respect.
No M1 tank or Apache helicopter can save us.
America will only help if it suits their interest. After that you have to buy American car and maybe change to 120V and use
inches instead of millimetre.
*** i dont know if americans will come and save us.. but i think nothing can save ur pathetic brain..
It is time that we respect the MAF for it is.
*** Respect MAF??? we??? for what???
I still remember what my warrant officer said to me, how are we going to war when we get lost in Lim Chu Kang. He is now growing grapes in Australia.
*** no problem..... MAF also get lost in their toilet... so dont worry... we are all human.... we eat and urinate... just like they do... -
they send all 100 T90 down the cause way... we win liow....Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Anyway, what if Malaysia secretly bought 100 T90s and send them roaring down the causeway?Do you think we can withstand them with our current forces?
blow up a few T90 on our side of the causeway to start a blockade... then massacre the rest.... -
Hi all,
In Australia, some of the troops training there have to fly by land because there is not enough Superpuma pilot, regular.
Orang utan precisely, that is why the American marine expeditionary units train in jungle warfare and survival in Malaysia & Thailand as they have very good Jungle survival instructor.
In Singapore only the commando,scout, BRC, LSV team are taught this jungle survival skill what the American term SERE, Survival Evacuation Rescue Escape. Living of the land.
If this people are no good, why do we have to deploy sensor that is able to detect divers in the water manned by American soldiers. They(Paskal) are supplied with the same rebreather units used by the Navy seal.
In world war two the German army lost the russian front because althought their tank was superior to the russian, they were not able to make up the number which were damaged. The russian has a simple tank which it is able to manufacture quickly, quantity.
That is why American has a large combat fighter in storage in the desert as they know that although they have a qualitative advantage, it takes time to make this modern aircraft and you can never have enough.
Specops is featured in Afghanistan playing a major roll. America has 46 000 specops personnel out of the whole army. The number speaks volume that a highly trained unit is able to demoralise the enemy.
What I am asking is if we go to war who will evacuate my family to safety and to where ? The new artillery range for the MAF is 1000km and the quantity stated in jane defence is 22.
Will our fighter have time to destroy them ?
When I am in a superpuma flanked by fennec helicopter to heli insert to fight the enemy. And you hear the artillery shell wheezing by knowing that your block of flat is going to be destroyed. I know that I will be demoralised.
What is the plan to save my family, evacuate them to where and how ??
Well 747 boeing to airlift the malaysian. -
eh....juz asking. But are we leaking out military secrets?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by psyop:
Hi all,
"In Singapore only the commando,scout, BRC, LSV team are taught this jungle survival skill what the American term SERE, Survival Evacuation Rescue Escape. Living of the land."
Same goes for them. Are all of their regular foot grunts trained to the same standards as their SpecOps personnel? No. All armies will have highly trained specops, theres no doubt. But do not look down on our own troops while giving theirs the respect they deserve.
"If this people are no good, why do we have to deploy sensor that is able to detect divers in the water manned by American soldiers. They(Paskal) are supplied with the same rebreather units used by the Navy seal."
Again, if they can have it, so can our troops. And then much much more than that.
"In world war two the German army lost the russian front because althought their tank was superior to the russian, they were not able to make up the number which were damaged. The russian has a simple tank which it is able to manufacture quickly, quantity."
The qualitative and quantative argument is less relevant today(although not totally irrelevant). The coalition defeated Iraq while numerically inferior. Israel took the Arabs to the cleaners in 1967 with less numbers of troops and outnumbered in almost every department against Egypt Syria Lebanon Jordan Iraq Libya and Algeria among others.
Germany lost the war due to a number of reasons, and quantity was just one of them. Logistics and poor planning were among them, no thanks in small part to Adolfs interfering and megalomania.
"What I am asking is if we go to war who will evacuate my family to safety and to where ?
Precisely, we have no option but to stand and fight if push comes to shove because there is nowhere to run. No one will evacuate our families because there is nowhere to run to.
The new artillery range for the MAF is 1000km and the quantity stated in jane defence is 22.
Excuse me, the name to the Brazilian MRL (multiple rocket laucher) system acquired by our neighbours escapes me for the moment, but as far as I recall the max range for the rocket system is 90km, not 1000km. Even the Russian battlefield missiles of the FROG and SCUD series do not have a 1000km range. We may not take every one out in any first strike, but I do believe that with the small number in their possession and the multitude of countersystems we have, it will negate the effectiveness of this MRL.
Will our fighter have time to destroy them ?
When I am in a superpuma flanked by fennec helicopter to heli insert to fight the enemy. And you hear the artillery shell wheezing by knowing that your block of flat is going to be destroyed. I know that I will be demoralised.
What is the plan to save my family, evacuate them to where and how ??
Well...lets just say thats been figured out long ago.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by hingzw:
eh....juz asking. But are we leaking out military secrets?[/QUOTE
I think they are. I'm not surprised if some neighbouring country spy get them on their payroll, or they get apprehended and land in some remote island, under house arrest for indefinite period of time.
Think of this, if we NSF are not supposed to reveal training programme, how is SAF going to deal with people who reveal operational secrets? -
Originally posted by Lexington:
help lar......
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hingzw:
[b]eh....juz asking. But are we leaking out military secrets?[/QUOTE
I think they are. I'm not surprised if some neighbouring country spy get them on their payroll, or they get apprehended and land in some remote island, under house arrest for indefinite period of time.
Think of this, if we NSF are not supposed to reveal training programme, how is SAF going to deal with people who reveal operational secrets?[/B]
you 2 ppl realli think general public will have any info that our 'neighbors' find tactically useful? their intelligence network probably knows hell of a lot more than any of us general public even discuss here. same for our side.
reason why nsf not s'pose to reveal even little stuff like training program is to inculcate the operational security mentality in saf men. furthermore safer to say all info cannot reveal (dats why theres no security classification lower than 'restricted' ie no disclosure to outside sources) than to say some stuff can distribute freely, coz if not higher chance of leakages. -
Little update on events across the causeway :
In February, the Malaysian Army plans to take delivery its first Astros II long-range rocket artillery systems purchased from Avibras Aerospacial SA (São Paulo, Brazil). The Astros II system is capable of firing five different kinds of rockets of different calibers and a variety of submunitions -
An artillery piece alone is a useful tool. But whether it is effective depends on its proper usage. Ever considered how the Astros can be used? What situations would they most likely use it? Or will it be used by the orders of a company level commander when he believes he made contact?
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Astros just needs to be used on our runways, and that will do more than enuff damage to our capabilities, which hinges heavily on air-support.
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Then they would have to include other targets like highways n etc. Cos our vipers can take off from runways and land on runways. Main problem would be the taxiing, and movement of combat logistics to turn these highways into temp runways.
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If I am not wrong, there are only 2 stretches of highways convertible to RSAF usage - one of them is the ECP, the other I forgot the place name. But both are public info, all that's needed would be to use the rockets on these too. Also, its not that easy to convert highways - must be very LONG and FLAT and WIDE, as well as having the proper space to station the support equipment for the aircraft etc......
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So how can it be done? I know they remove the lamp-posts in order to convert these highways.
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Isn't the other highway somewhere around chua chu kang area? It will be somewhere close to Tengah AFB.Originally posted by YourFather:If I am not wrong, there are only 2 stretches of highways convertible to RSAF usage - one of them is the ECP, the other I forgot the place name. But both are public info, all that's needed would be to use the rockets on these too. Also, its not that easy to convert highways - must be very LONG and FLAT and WIDE, as well as having the proper space to station the support equipment for the aircraft etc...... -
I saw Pics of vipers taking off there once. It doesnt even look like a highway. Looks like just a very long and straight 2 lane road. But a rather wide one.
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I agree wif what u said. How long can we hold out? How many of those that have completed their NS or r now still serving NS dare say that they can last a mth out in the forests, let alone jungles? Maybe those RANGERS could but how many r there in SINGAPORE? Considering the fact that abt less then 50 pass out from the course every batch...Could u stand not bathing 4 a mth in the jungles? eating combat rations for 3weeks?Sleeping with the bugs snakes wild animals n mosquitoes for 2weeks?....Originally posted by moose:frankly,i think that we go to a war,we can only defend and not invade,and even if we defend,there is only a short period we can defend due to war's attrition rate.So we can win the war if it's a short one,but a long drawn out war,we may not be able to hold on that long -
I'm glad u realise that some of the people in the SAF are secewed up. Maybe we should have some form of screening or terminate contracts of those non-performing regulars that screwed up SAF n waste tax-payers money. But it may mean an easy way out for those wanting to quit? Anyway, i find the SAF flooded wif incapable fucked up lazy Enciks n officers planning to retire at 45.Originally posted by Altrex:Quisling, forget it. Arguing defence capabilities with people totally ignorant about strategic issues and the exact military capability of countries in the region is a total waste of time.
No offence to the other posts. This is a very common problem. How many people in S'pore actually have knowledge of S'pore's military capabilities and the neighbouring countries?
I have, because it's my childhood passion and now my ricebowl.
Can S'pore win a war? If it's in the region (the ONLY possible case), it's a no-contest. We'll win. No doubt. Why? Part of it has to do with what we can do. The more important thing is what THEY can do.
Let me ask a few questions to the doubters out there. These questions may NOT have an effect on whether S'pore can win or not, but it'll show how much about defence in S'pore and the region u know in the first place.
1) How many soldiers can the SAF put in the field? Inclusive of regulars, NSFs and NSmen (remember they're ALL part of the SAF. NS does NOT end after ORD)
2) How many soldiers can our northern neighbour (the ONLY one with a land link to us) put in the field? Inclusive of their Volunteer Corps (ignoring their minimal training)
3) Which country in the region has any kind of strategic or tactical SSM? (Surface-to-surface missiles....the one all of u are so worried about)
4) How many naval bases do the Malaysians and the Indonesians have and where are they?
5) What is the operational status of the much-vaunted Malaysian MIG-29 squadron?
6) How many missile-armed ships do the Malaysians have and what is the range of the MM-40 Exocet missile compared to the Harpoon used by S'pore? Likewise for Indonesia.
7) How many tanks do the Malaysians have and what is the size of their mechanised infantry? Similarly, what about S'pore?
The SAF is the most highly-respected and rated armed forces in the region by the US and most European nations. Why?
9) When ths SAF takes part in tactical (NOT training) exercises with foreign countries (even the US), who wins most of the time?
The answers to most of these questions are not really classified. Of course, S'pore's exact capabilites are classified. But lots of these answers can simply be found in Jane's Defence.
War is not such a simple thing. Besides the hardware, you need the men, the firepower, the logistical support and the will to win.
Israel thrashed the Arabs in the 60s because they were good. But what happened to them now? In 1972 (or was in 1976? one of them..), their commandoes could execute the daring Entebbe anti-terrorist raid. Now, MOSSAD can't even handle a simple task like killing a terrorist leader. 30 over years of peace had softened the Israeli armed forces. In the 60s, they were full of passion for defending their young state. Years of peace and the complacency which followed resulted in the drop in standard. The younger generation now question the value of national security and defence.
The same thing is happening to S'pore. Undoubtly, training-wise, support-wise and by sheer force of arms, we are superior to the others in the region, but what I doubt is the will of S'poreans to fight and win.
All male citizens above 18 pledged their "allegiance to the President", "to support and defend the Constitution" and "to preserve and protect the honour and independence of our country with our lives". These lines are taken from the SAF Pledge.
How many of you actually understood what you've pledged yourself to and lived by it?
What does the SAF lack? Pride in the service. War experience. Larger naval platforms. A main battle tank with a larger main gun.
Some of these are material and can be obtained, like the new frigates coming in by 2009. Others can't. War experience is not too bad as all the countries in the region all lack it. But if we have no pride in the service, we'll never make it.
Have a bit more faith in the SAF and more pride in it. Some of the people in it are screwed-up but this is the case in any organisation. As a whole, the SAF is still good as a defence force and we CAN win wars.
They really gave the NSFs distorted opinons about the SAF.These mentality will stay wif them even after they ord. -
I agree wif what u said. How long can we hold out? How many of those that have completed their NS or r now still serving NS dare say that they can last a mth out in the forests, let alone jungles? Maybe those RANGERS could but how many r there in SINGAPORE? Considering the fact that abt less then 50 pass out from the course every batch...Could u stand not bathing 4 a mth in the jungles? eating combat rations for 3weeks?Sleeping with the bugs snakes wild animals n mosquitoes for 2weeks?....Originally posted by RAIDER:[QUOTE]Originally posted by moose:
[b]frankly,i think that we go to a war,we can only defend and not invade,and even if we defend,there is only a short period we can defend due to war's attrition rate.So we can win the war if it's a short one,but a long drawn out war,we may not be able to hold on that long
[/B][/QUOTE]
RAIDER, no soldier can last a month in the jungle. And they are not supposed to. If you are staying in the jungle for 1 mth, then something is already seriously wrong with your mission. -
Not necessary, for special forces, their mission could easily be 1 month or more with minimal resupply. Special forces snipers could romp in a jungle for a really long period of time, creating havoc to the enemy's physchology. Just imagine that if you know there is a sniper out there in your backyard and you spent lots of time trying to hunt him down but failed. And the sniper keep taking your men down 1 at a time.... that's really demoralising.Originally posted by Shotgun:RAIDER, no soldier can last a month in the jungle. And they are not supposed to. If you are staying in the jungle for 1 mth, then something is already seriously wrong with your mission. -
Well, I didn't included special operations unit in that description. A regular mobile army, shouldn't be sitting in the jungle for a month.
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The SA-18 Grouse that sg bought from ru is not the latest or best version of the Russian Igla. They should have bought the SA-16 Gimlet instead. The SA-18 was released 3 years before the SA-16, and the SA-16 has better features like a 2-colour seeker that is less likely to be fooled by decoy flares. I guess the MINDEF procurement people thought "18 is a bigger number than 16 so it must be better".
SA-18
<http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-18.htm>
SA-16
<http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-16.htm>
In October 1997, RepSAF procurement was announced of 9K38 Igla (SA-18 "Grouse") advanced infantry SAMs, as Singapore's first Russian weapons.
<http://www.awgnet.com/shownews/00sing1/topsto02.htm>
[This message has been edited by bengyong (edited 20 March 2002).]