Singapore At War
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Your first two questions already prove your ignorance about military matters and thus pointless for me to argue against you.Originally posted by perwira:tsk tsk tsk....
Singaporeans has no idea or the military of Malaysia.
-Does Singapore has a Rapid Deployment Force? And Do Malaysia have it?
-Does Singapore have a division sizes of troops trained in specialized tactics? And do Malaysia have it?
As for arrogance, name-calling etc etc. Look at my posts in reference to responding to that countrymen of yours, in this thread and other threads. -
The hell I'm proud!
I like it here, my friends ae here, my family's here and all my money's made here! Of course I love it here! At least here, I don't have to be a bloody Bumi to get anywhere.
My place in uni was acquired through merit and every single employer I've worked for didn't employ me because of skin colour.
And of course you're proud of your country. You should be if your little brown 'brudders take good care of its own kind. But thats not how we prefer to live.
So you bought new stuff! OK already! I am sick and tired of listening to this garbage. Yes, you have a rapid deployment force, so tell Mahathir to use it... if he dares... Let us all burn in hell together after that.
The MLRS are still in Brazil for your info... and it takes awhile before new weapons are integrated and acquire OP status... Think! Your country didn't just buy a kettle or a microwave which u can just plug in and use!
Catching up with our airforce? one suggestion: PLAN! think about it! has your people every showed any consistency or long term planning in arms purchase? If anything, its the MAF thats more for show and on paper than the SAF.
Yes, MAF has sent UN observers, peacekeepers and cannon fodder to Somalia and lotsa other places. So?? Does it make them bullet-proof? I for one thing, am not fussy about the small arms I use... M16, SAW, MG or even the SAR21... If it pumps lead, I can use it. Don't need a space-age phaser for an infantryman to do his job...
Grow up boy... This is a DISCUSSION FORUM on the INTERNET! If you don't agree, state your objection in a matured manner or don't come! No need to get personal or abusive here.
Nobody here wants war. Singapore is not the Israel of Asia. But I bet we wouldn't mind taking on that role when push comes to shove... Defence is so hotly debated here precisely because if we didn't have it, belligerent warhogs like you would be crying for war at every juncture.
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I never saw a wild thing
sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.
D. H. Lawrence -
tsk tsk tsk..... which shit hole you came from har??? hahahaaaa.....Originally posted by perwira:tsk tsk tsk....
Singaporeans has no idea or the military of Malaysia.
*** and how much do you know about SAF??
-Does Singapore has a Rapid Deployment Force? And Do Malaysia have it?
*** your RDF (aka 4th mech brigade??) will be shot down before it even take off... and for your info... singapore dont have a RDF... we only have 3 to 4 RACAD... Rapid ASSAULT combined armes DIVISION....
-Does Singapore have a division sizes of troops trained in specialized tactics? And do Malaysia have it?
*** NO... so sad... singapore's entire army, navy and air command are only trained in combined integrated offense.... we were supposed to burn KL to ashes on the first day and IPOH on the 3rd day!! how's that?? not really impressive hor.... i told them to buy a dozen nuke... they dont want... else we could burn KL and IPOH and KUCHING to ashes on the same day... in one hour!!
-Has SIngapore gone to wars before? I don meant UN observing or medical mission, I mean real combat missionss or combat peacekeepering missions.
*** NO.... but if you are willing to help... we dont mind pumping lead into your body!! :>>
-Yes Singapore has their boinixs APC and sar rifles...but they war-proved?
*** NO.... but likewise... if you will just stand over there... we will see if those APC can crush your bones and how many holes the SAR21 can make on you!! since it is not war proven... i think you need not fear hor!? heheehe.....
-Does Singapore has MRLS?
***NO..... we only have pathetic FH2000 with DPICM which is supposed to kill everything within an area of 3000 football fields EVERY 15 second...
we might be low-tech but our army can definately crush your army...all your soldiers mama boys and bullshitter thinking you know so much in you 2 years of army bullshit.
*** Well... i would love to hear you say that when you look down the barrel of the SAR21... in fact... foreign military observers think far highly of our mama boys.. then your so call 'professional' malaysian soldier!! *clap clap*
your airforce may be good now but we are catching up.
*** keep trying hor.... -
mine! mine! LOL! I'm back, and getting myself prepped for errr... 10 day field camp...(shudders) sigh...
Now, what's this Firefly thing? can anyone update me? I thought the Firefly is an american drone? What's that got to do with us? -
Dear Perwira, shan't even bother dignifying you with retorts to your stupid assertions.
You who have never served in the armed forces before have no standing to come here and tell us anything.
Continue wallowing in your ignorance and state perpetuated stupidity.
Bumiputra status for people like you was the
best thing to have every happened to Singapore. Thank you. -
LOL what's a 10 field trip? Try a 3week outfield in Aussie terrain...... :pOriginally posted by YourFather:mine! mine! LOL! I'm back, and getting myself prepped for errr... 10 day field camp...(shudders) sigh...
Now, what's this Firefly thing? can anyone update me? I thought the Firefly is an american drone? What's that got to do with us? -
Try going to Sai Yok 2 times, Rockhamton once and Heng Chun 2 times in the course of 2.5 years... U could literally scrape the layers of paint of my kit bag after 2.5 years...Originally posted by Silenthunter:LOL what's a 10 field trip? Try a 3week outfield in Aussie terrain...... :p -
Maybe it is a Mud Mat trying to do some stupid stuffOriginally posted by tripwire:Nahh.... i dont think he is from SAF... his web page contain a few error which would not have been missed if he is indeed from SAF... all those figures are just merely lifted off magazines and books which is available in public...
Anyway... he is a no brainer... with a brain the size of a pea... -
The main page has been pulled off the web, but the subpages remain.
Chickenshit -
sorry sorry :-) Field camp, not field trip.Originally posted by Silenthunter:LOL what's a 10 field trip? Try a 3week outfield in Aussie terrain...... :p -
To all the fellow Singaporean, I think it is time Mindef/SAF should look at getting a handful of offensive weapons like MLRS. I think some neighbour(s) think that by getting some offensive weapons, they have grown in confidence in bullying Singapore. They think that they now can easy crush Singapore and SAF. Sometimes the best defense is offense. And the best defense is psychological offense. If Mindef/SAF will get stuffs like MLRS, RSAF get long range guided munitions like Israeli made Popeyes, RSN equipped with Block 2 Harpoons which are capable of destroying land targets, I think potential enemies will then realise that everytime they try their scare Singapore or think that they can bully Singapore both militarily or politically, they are wrong. Dead wrong. Singaporean will shown them that Singaporean are a bunch of survivors. They will not be defeated before the enemies themselves are being stung so badly that they would be totally disfigured.
However, I do think that SAF can really be a real power if we do have a small division of entirely professional soldiers. Don't know what is the sign-on rate but I'm sure that given good vocation in the armed forces with a decent pay, there will be some people in who would be professional soldiers. Afterall, all the pilots are professionals. Most of the Navy personnels are professionals. Its time the army should form professional soldiers. Yes, get at least a few gurkhas or form some foreign legion where SAF could send for combat peacekeeping roles. -
Having a publicly known strong offensive capability is not gonna shut those pple up. Instead, it will only add fuel to their groundless accusations.Originally posted by Joe Black:To all the fellow Singaporean, I think it is time Mindef/SAF should look at getting a handful of offensive weapons like MLRS. I think some neighbour(s) think that by getting some offensive weapons, they have grown in confidence in bullying Singapore. They think that they now can easy crush Singapore and SAF. Sometimes the best defense is offense. And the best defense is psychological offense. If Mindef/SAF will get stuffs like MLRS, RSAF get long range guided munitions like Israeli made Popeyes, RSN equipped with Block 2 Harpoons which are capable of destroying land targets, I think potential enemies will then realise that everytime they try their scare Singapore or think that they can bully Singapore both militarily or politically, they are wrong. Dead wrong. Singaporean will shown them that Singaporean are a bunch of survivors. They will not be defeated before the enemies themselves are being stung so badly that they would be totally disfigured.
SAF is never in the policy of publicise our capabilities, especially any "toys" we may have, or researched. But I believe most of us agree that we can hold our own in any regional conflicts.
Let them those folks make all the noise they want, why bother? But if they dare try anything funny (military), we will make sure they will taste the full force, and let them burn in hell. -
Hey, we have always been buying American stuff, but have you ever thought of the day when we may be selling American equipment to..... America?!!!? Dont believe, then hear me out! It seems that their SOCOM is considering acquiring the 6 CH-47D Chinooks that we have as interim replacements for the MH-47E helis lost or damaged during the operations in Afghanistan or Philippines. Our Ch-47s are very attractive to them as ours are already structurally configured for the same enlarged 7,827 litre fuel tanks on the MH-47Es, which they would convert the CH-47s into, should they acquire them. With Singapore intending to standardise on the CH-47SD version, such a sale may actually have a good chance of coming true.
On other news, Malaysia seems to want to address their shortfall in MPA capability. It seems like they are considering upgrades on theirBeech Kings among other options. -
Hello Joe Black
I agree with you that many of casual military enthusiasts lack an appreciation of the military balance between Singapore and Malayisa. That is the reason why we have to defend the defensibility of our country to our singaporean friends and to retort the superficial dismissal of the SAF capabilities by our neighbours. This is not confine to civilians only and even within the 2 country services, the junior officers and men lack such an appreciation. This is dangerous as it leads to an inflated sense of self confidence and an underestimation of the opponent capabilities. However I believe that the higher commands on both side of the Causeway do have an understanding of each other's capability and in times of tensions,it should be their duty to brief the poltical leaders on such before the leadership decides on an provocative actions. Deterrence is lost when your enemy is incompetent and fail to see your strengths and signals. Offensive weapons?
I never believe in the distinction between offensive and defensive weapons All of you know MINDEF/SAF aquisition policies - low profile and staggered - we do not want to be seen as triggering off an arm race especially now. Any immediate announcement of arms purchase would lead immediate to charges of sparking an arms race by our neighbours and escalate the tensions. Let the SAF continue with its current policy. The whole world do not need to be aware of our capabilities but only the right people in the opposition. We are a peaceful country
As for the idea of a regular fighting force, a division is perharps a bit too big. 2 brigades would be ideal - These brigades could be our developemental forces. As for mercenary, don't mean to put you down Joe Black but the idea of recruiting mercenaries to fight for us is abhorring -
Read Machiavelli "the prince"Originally posted by solaris:As for mercenary, don't mean to put you down Joe Black but the idea of recruiting mercenaries to fight for us is abhorring -
Tripwire, perwira's question, no need to answer in detail.
No
No
No
No
The M'sian Defense minister can describe SAF as the most potent armed force in the region. I like Perwira's attitude, at least he believes that such deeds can be accomplished. If only Singaporeans can take such confidence in SAF..... sigh. -
Tripwire, perwira's question, no need to answer in detail.
No
No
No
No
The M'sian Defense minister can describe SAF as the most potent armed force in the region. I like Perwira's attitude, at least he believes that such deeds can be accomplished. If only Singaporeans can take such confidence in SAF..... sigh. -
Hey pple, we have always been discussing among ourselves the possible scenario of war with Malaysia. How about this time we see what others have to say about such a scenario? Take a look at this board, its mainly an Australian frequented one, but there are some from Malaysia and Russia as well... http://pub14.ezboard.com/fwarandpoliticsfrm47.showMessage?topicID=668.topic
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Interesting, we get a lot of crap here about how they're gonna get top of the line Scorpenes while we're stuck with old rickety Sjoormens. But like its been pointed out over there, so what? Even if the Scorpenes are delivered tomorrow they wouldn't have the crew to operate it.Originally posted by YourFather:Hey pple, we have always been discussing among ourselves the possible scenario of war with Malaysia. How about this time we see what others have to say about such a scenario? Take a look at this board, its mainly an Australian frequented one, but there are some from Malaysia and Russia as well... http://pub14.ezboard.com/fwarandpoliticsfrm47.showMessage?topicID=668.topic
We didn't get the Sjoormens and expect it to become our uber-Uboat, we got it to use as a training platforms instead of using up valuable hull and fatigue life to train our sailors.
Once we're got a nucleus of sub crews up, the newer subs would come, I've already heard noises from my French contacts on this and the training arrangements. -
i make a reply at the ezboard... i decided to copy it over... so that we might continue the line here as well.Originally posted by Viper52:Interesting, we get a lot of crap here about how they're gonna get top of the line Scorpenes while we're stuck with old rickety Sjoormens. But like its been pointed out over there, so what? Even if the Scorpenes are delivered tomorrow they wouldn't have the crew to operate it.
We didn't get the Sjoormens and expect it to become our uber-Uboat, we got it to use as a training platforms instead of using up valuable hull and fatigue life to train our sailors.
Once we're got a nucleus of sub crews up, the newer subs would come, I've already heard noises from my French contacts on this and the training arrangements.
I agreed... in fact.. there is another problem for the malaysian armed forces....
Malaysia is divided by the south china sea into peninsula malaysia (next to singapore) and east malaysia. its military forces are divided into 2 with a 60% (peninsula) and 40%(east malaysia) distribution...
Its navy and air forces are likewise divided up between the two pieces of land...
Already its military is weaker then singapore...on paper... after taking into account of the division of forces... its far weaker then many could see..or what the malaysian even want to see at all.
On paper alone... after taking into consideration of the division of malaysian forces... singapore would be in an overwhelming position to take out malaysia very very quickly... with 350,000 (SAF) men against 60,000 (MAF)men...
furthermore... malaysia has a very very extremely long coast line... just defending its entire coastline with its limited manpower would easily stretch its military resources to razor thin.... on the other hand... singapore dont have such a problem and could divert almost its entire military forces on offensive actions...
as to regional involvement... i doubt they can move fast enough to prevent SAF from overruning malaysia... with the exception of thailand... which have a common border with malaysia... indonesia would need sea and air lift to get to malaysia's aid.... which obviously... the RSAF and RSN is not gonna allow that to happen without impunity..
BUT.. should indonesia exploit SAF invasion of malaysia by taking over east malaysia... ( i doubt anyone would stop them). it is cheaper and much more beneficial.... afterall.. taking out 40,000 MAF troops to get a big chunk of land would certainly be better then sending its limited 300,000 man to take on SAF 350,000 men and get probably nothing in return....
The thais might also look forward to some land 'reclamation' as well... afterall... as history have it... the kingdom of siam (now thailand) owns land as far south as the Perak state of malaysia....
How will this war end?? perhaps with the disintegration of malaysia... i doubt singapore would permit malaysia to remain considering the cost to singapore in taking out malaysia... wont it be stupid... if we have to do it a second time?? and there is no guarantee... we will be as lucky as in the first. -
I reckon Singapore needs only the whole state of Johor and that will mean the greater survivability of Singapore for a long long time to come. Much more land means more places to develop and more spacing for the population, no water issues, bigger place for armed forces to train, no more complaint about RSAF incursion, no more long waits at the causeways just to get to the other side. Man, Sir Stanfort Raffles should have have bought Johor rather than just the Singapore island. Man, PAP should have pursuaded the Sultan of Johor to join Singapore when during the 1965 break off from the federation.Originally posted by tripwire:i make a reply at the ezboard... i decided to copy it over... so that we might continue the line here as well.
I agreed... in fact.. there is another problem for the malaysian armed forces....
Malaysia is divided by the south china sea into peninsula malaysia (next to singapore) and east malaysia. its military forces are divided into 2 with a 60% (peninsula) and 40%(east malaysia) distribution...
Its navy and air forces are likewise divided up between the two pieces of land...
Already its military is weaker then singapore...on paper... after taking into account of the division of forces... its far weaker then many could see..or what the malaysian even want to see at all.
On paper alone... after taking into consideration of the division of malaysian forces... singapore would be in an overwhelming position to take out malaysia very very quickly... with 350,000 (SAF) men against 60,000 (MAF)men...
furthermore... malaysia has a very very extremely long coast line... just defending its entire coastline with its limited manpower would easily stretch its military resources to razor thin.... on the other hand... singapore dont have such a problem and could divert almost its entire military forces on offensive actions...
as to regional involvement... i doubt they can move fast enough to prevent SAF from overruning malaysia... with the exception of thailand... which have a common border with malaysia... indonesia would need sea and air lift to get to malaysia's aid.... which obviously... the RSAF and RSN is not gonna allow that to happen without impunity..
BUT.. should indonesia exploit SAF invasion of malaysia by taking over east malaysia... ( i doubt anyone would stop them). it is cheaper and much more beneficial.... afterall.. taking out 40,000 MAF troops to get a big chunk of land would certainly be better then sending its limited 300,000 man to take on SAF 350,000 men and get probably nothing in return....
The thais might also look forward to some land 'reclamation' as well... afterall... as history have it... the kingdom of siam (now thailand) owns land as far south as the Perak state of malaysia....
How will this war end?? perhaps with the disintegration of malaysia... i doubt singapore would permit malaysia to remain considering the cost to singapore in taking out malaysia... wont it be stupid... if we have to do it a second time?? and there is no guarantee... we will be as lucky as in the first.
I'm sure the next time we have the opportunity to do so, we would definitely do it RIGHT !!!
If Indonesia wants any confrontation with Singapore, then they will have to be prepared to lose the Riau islands.
Anyway, with all these war talks putting aside, I hope we all can learn to live in peace and not being so overly sensitive or insensitive. Malaysia has got to learn to not bully Singapore whenever they are about to go for election. That's not very neighbourly. B4 they complaint about Singapore anything, perhaps they should take a mirror and look at themselves first.
Why are they constantly trying to pull out the mote in one's eye but not a beam in their own? -
I think that given RSN relationship with Kockums, it might be that RSN may extend that to getting new built boats from them. It is always good to have a second source of supplier just in case the first source does not continue a good relationship or somehow some politics get into the way.Originally posted by Viper52:We didn't get the Sjoormens and expect it to become our uber-Uboat, we got it to use as a training platforms instead of using up valuable hull and fatigue life to train our sailors.
Once we're got a nucleus of sub crews up, the newer subs would come, I've already heard noises from my French contacts on this and the training arrangements.
My thoughts are that RSN should get either the Kockums A19 (or a variant of it) fitted with Stirling AIP or the German HDW U-212 (Type 212) with the fuel cells. The German made Israeli Dolphine will be my 2nd choice. The subs should be fitted with either the French Thomson-Sintra or German Atlas Elecronik bow sonars with the possibility of adding passive flank arrayed and a tow arrayed sonar. -
I think that given RSN relationship with Kockums, it might be that RSN may extend that to getting new built boats from them. It is always good to have a second source of supplier just in case the first source does not continue a good relationship or somehow some politics get into the way.Originally posted by Viper52:We didn't get the Sjoormens and expect it to become our uber-Uboat, we got it to use as a training platforms instead of using up valuable hull and fatigue life to train our sailors.
Once we're got a nucleus of sub crews up, the newer subs would come, I've already heard noises from my French contacts on this and the training arrangements.
My thoughts are that RSN should get either the Kockums A19 (or a variant of it) fitted with Stirling AIP or the German HDW U-212 (Type 212) with the fuel cells. The German made Israeli Dolphine will be my 2nd choice. The subs should be fitted with either the French Thomson-Sintra or German Atlas Elecronik bow sonars with the possibility of adding passive flank arrayed and a tow arrayed sonar. -
this is such an interesting topic you guys are discussing. i've been reading your posts everyday. i'm getting hooked on S'pore & it's military now.
Joe Black: about your comment "PAP SHOULD HAVE PERSUADED THE SULTAN OF JOHOR TO JOIN S'PORE DURING THE BREAK OFF FROM THE FEDERATION" i think that those were such dangerous times back in 1965 S'pore is really lucky to have gotten it's independance! S'pore had virtually no military of any kind & was in total mercy of malaysia. LKY & the entire 1st generation leaders could have been arrested & executed for treason if someone had more radical views were in charge of malaysia back then. if mahathir mohammad were PM, he would have killed LKY & his team & S'pore would have never been born. not to mention alot of ethnic chinese malaysians would have been purged too. if they had tried to persuade the sultan of johor to leave malaysia & join S'pore, it would have been unacceptable to kuala lumpur. it's hard to imagine today becasue S'pore is armed to the teeth but in the beginning of it's independance it was very scary.
tripwire: your views about indonesia & thailand taking large chunks of malaysia if it is at war with S'pore is very interesting. thailand i would have no doubt will make a move on malaysia but as for indonesia i have second thoughts. you forgot the "muslim" factor. if S'pore is at war with malaysia then won't the population of indonesia rise up to side with their islamic brothers of malaysia?? in fact i'm afraid that much of the entire muslim world would be bent on supporting malaysia! they would be sending funds & arms to help them fight S'pore. & god know's what the savages in both indonesia & malaysia do to the ethnic chinese in those 2 countries. we would see violence directed towards them worse than the anti chinese riots of the 60's & the one's in indonesia in 1997.
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"Is it me or the sword you want?"~Jen Yu
CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON -
btw i'm interested in S'pore's indigenious arms industry. but only found bits & pieces about it so far. if anyone has links regarding S'pore local weapon's producing capabilities please post some up here. thanks.
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"Is it me or the sword you want?"~Jen Yu
CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON