Singapore At War
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for all those out there who thinks that others will come to our aid in times of war
forget it what do we have that will make others come and help us just because we have a good economy or what you ppl thinks that countries like the US will send their sons to fight for us you think their people will agree on that letting their citzens die for someone not realted to them if u are thinking of kuwait(where the US invovled itself) think again kuwait has oil and what does we have that will made them come and help us and if there is anyone who is able to defend Singapore in time of war it is up to us Singaporeans and not others and u think that we will really lose considering the fact that we have the 2nd largest armed forces in south east asia and with our technology we might not lose and even if we might lose we won't give up without a fight!!!!!!
if someone dares to drop a bomb on us we will make sure that we will drop back 10 bombs on him and our they know that whick explain why they do not dare to have hostile intentions against us at least for now. -
of coz others will surely help..if not wat r United Nation 4 ?? u wan Singapore to start a war against neighbouring countries and win?? forget it..the no. of soldiers in the Indonsia amry is more than the whole Singapore population.but do not worry..nowadays few ppl dare start a war ?? y ?? coz the americans will help. surely..the americans do not even need to any warships here..juzz a bomber plane will do..remember y the Japs surrerder in the WW2 ?? coz juzz a bomber plane the Enola Gay will flatened the whole city..thus if u say if other country would dare drop a bomb here & we would drop back 10 bombs ?? forget it..if they drop a bomb here..Singapore would be flatened to nothing..hw r u suppose to drop back 10 bombs ??Originally posted by JuzanotherGUY:for all those out there who thinks that others will come to our aid in times of war
forget it what do we have that will make others come and help us just because we have a good economy or what you ppl thinks that countries like the US will send their sons to fight for us you think their people will agree on that letting their citzens die for someone not realted to them if u are thinking of kuwait(where the US invovled itself) think again kuwait has oil and what does we have that will made them come and help us and if there is anyone who is able to defend Singapore in time of war it is up to us Singaporeans and not others and u think that we will really lose considering the fact that we have the 2nd largest armed forces in south east asia and with our technology we might not lose and even if we might lose we won't give up without a fight!!!!!!
if someone dares to drop a bomb on us we will make sure that we will drop back 10 bombs on him and our they know that whick explain why they do not dare to have hostile intentions against us at least for now. -
I think we people should be more tolerant of each other's country and races.
And War is a horrible thing which we all will not want to have rite?
What's the difference bet. a singaporean and a malaysian?
Besides the different nationality, we are basically the same.
We all have the same colour for blood(don't tell me that yours is blue in colour),we also have relatives and siblings.
From my point of view, M'sia is quite hostile towards Singapore at times(From what I have read of the press eg. water shortage, the airspace stuff, and the territorial rights bout the train station.)
But I think the people on the other side of the causeway also have the same perception that we Singapore is against M'sia.
(And by what you people have been posting in the forum, you might just have proven them right)
As for SNAFU I apologised for what my fellow citizens had said to you. But I also think that you are a tab too arrogant.
As for my fellow singaporeans, remember that the only way to win a man over is by virtues and not by violence or might.
As for flames you can direct them to /dev/null
(P.S. I am glad to see that many singaporeans are optimistic that we can defend our country, as many of my frens commented that why should we bother when a nuclear bomb can wipe us out in seconds)
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To obtain peace, We have to fight for it, but then do you really call it peace if we have to fight for peace?
[This message has been edited by SquallLH (edited 15 September 2000).] -
mama told johnny not to go downtown
airborne rangers all around
johnny went downtown anyway
see what the rangers got 2 say
yo lay oh lup rite layo
yo lay oh lup rite laya
rangers told johnny it was not so easy
it's not the place u want to be
johnny decide to check it out
pack his bag and left the house
1st day in school, they took his hair
full of sorrows he couldnt share
swim and run till he drag his tongue
wondering if this is what he wants
1 day 10 days time goes by
stronger he gets he couldnt hide
on his graduation day
now he says........
AIRBORNE RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!!!!
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^sharp ears, eagle eyes^ -
I think this topic seems interesting & attractive as I read on. I notice it takes 3 pages to finish. The best is, from a street kopitiam talk, it seems to rise to an expert talk as I start seeing stuffs like Cat-1 or Cat-2 which seems classified kind of things. Well, first of all, let me clarify that I'm no military expert and certainly no Cat-1 or Cat-2. But what I worry is the typical mentality of most S'porean. That is believing too much in theory without considering facts. But I do agree some points are quite true like the quality & the spirit of the people here. I personally feel that in this issue, the most important thing is the fighting spirit of the people. However, I doubt we have this kind of quality. Imagine if you have a government which talks about money in almost everything
& the kind of kia-soo-ism they implant in almost every s'porean, what do you think the first thing a s'porean would think when he is put to a warfare, his saloon car? His executive flat? The business that he has set up? And also the kind of robatic mentality which they have brought up most s'porean to be, you think we can win a war whether we have stuffs like F-16 or not? What I'm trying to say here is, what matters most here is the self-integrity but not just a rootless pride which the government seems trying to induce in people. In Vietnum war, the North Vietnum had managed to defend the attack from Superpower like US, France & so on, not because they feel PROUD of being a Vietnumnese, but simply they felt that their integrity could not be compromised with! (By the way, don't ask me how I know. I also don't know!) As for S'pore, I notice the government, in this matter, is simply trying to induce some kind of pride in S'porean based with the economic achievements & its independence since then. I personally don't see much sense in this. Why? material achievement may vanish one day! As for independence, to my knowledge, most countries on this earth had gone through this stage with blood shedding to get to independence, like USA itself. What's so great about it? As such, don't just blame the young or people here for no pride in the Army or whatsoever. Ask yourself, who has caused all these! And it also worries me when I began to see Cat-1 or Cat-2 in this forum. Why? If you guys are really from SAF classified units, I'd be worried about the security of the country. Well, let me share one saying from the great Chinese ancient strategist - Sunzi: "Do not talk about a strategy on a piece of paper!"
[This message has been edited by ahpak (edited 14 October 2000).] -
Can Singapore win a war? Yes i believe it can, militarily. As earlier posters have pointed out, the SAF is more than a match for the armed forces of most neighbouring countries in terms of equipment and training. You can find this out easily from open source info on the web, there is no need for any top secret info here.
Actually, i rather hope that the neighbouring countries visibly improve their armed forces so that Singapore doesn't get too cocky and over-confident and trigger happy. If the armed forces in the region are more balanced, it will decrease the chances of armed conflict breaking out because nobody can be sure that they will win it.
And as for the SAF pledge, which Altrex brought up:All male citizens above 18 pledged their "allegiance to the President", "to support and defend the Constitution" and "to preserve and protect the honour and independence of our country with our lives". These lines are taken from the SAF Pledge. How many of you actually understood what you've pledged yourself to and lived by it?
I would suggest that oaths taken under duress don't count for much. Singaporeans are forced to say pledges and are conscripted into the army by law, not because they really want to.
Besides, how many Singaporeans actually know what a constitution is, let alone what their country's constitution says? If you don't know what your constitution says, how are you going to "support and defend" it? And why should you risk your life doing so when the constitution that you die defending may be changed the next day to suit the whims of the ruling party? If, for example, the constitution was changed so that citizens who are most likely to vote for a certain party get 2 votes whereas those who are least likely to vote for them get no votes, would you still support it?
And as for "allegience to the president," what does that actually mean? If the president asked you to stage a military coup and install him as a dictator, would you do it?
And as for preserving the "honour and independence of our country with our lives," go look for a poem called "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori".
I urge all Singaporeas to think about the pledges and oaths that they take. Do they make sense? Do we mean what we say when we take the pledges or do we just say them just in order not to get in trouble with the authorities?
And do the authorities behave as though they themselves honour the spirit of the pledge? For example, the Singapore pledge says "...to build a democratic society, based on justice and equality...", but don't we keep hearing that "democracy" and human rights are western inventions and not suitable for us because we have "Asian values"? And what of "equality", in a materialistic "meritocracy" like ours, do we actually treat all citizens with equal respect, or are some citizens more equal than others? We spout high-sounding slogans like "every singaporean counts" but on the ground we act differently.
Some of the pledges and slogans Singaporeans say do indeed sound like they have noble ideals, but theory and practice seem to be quite different things here.
Anyway, back to the topic of war. I agree with Altrex that Singaporeans might not have the will to fight and win. If a war started, i expect that the most crucial factor on the singapore side would not be military capability, but rather will and morale.
In the war in western asia, the average Iraqi NS man was not convinced of the justice of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, and being further demoralised by American bombardments and PsyOps, they surrendered en masse when the coalition forces began their offensive. In Vietnam, it wasn't the military might of the North Vietnamese that won them victory so much as their dogged determination to rid themselves of foreign domination, and in spite of the American's technological superiority the USA lost because the American public was against the war and the average GI didn't see the point of dying in somebody elses' war.
So, in order for Singapore to win a war, both the pink IC holders and the green IC holders need to be convinced of the justice of the cause and to be determined to win come what may.
If Singapore is faced with a genuine military attack from another country, the SAF will very probably win a decisive victory, but if Singapore is the one who fires the first shot and invades another country, there will be doubt in the minds of many Singaporeans as to the moral rightness of their side.
Furthermore the international community will probably side the side that is defending and oppose the side that is attacking, and Singapore may then end up facing UN economic sanctions or even military action. As Lee Kuan Yew has recently noted, current norms of international behaviour do not allow one country to invade another to expand its territory. Even if, for the sake of argument, Singapore captures a piece of land, it will have to give it back and not be able to hold onto it. I sincerely hope that all Singaporeans take note of this, especially the older generation of SAF officers.
As such, if the decision makers in Singapore ever decide to start a war for whatever reason, i expect that they will try to provoke the other country to take menacing actions such as mobilising its troops and massing them near Singapore, and then use this to justify a pre-emptive strike in apparent self-defence. They might even follow Hitler's example and fake an initial military attack on Singapore from the country they wish to invade.
However i hope that if the political leaders in Singapore and other countries are ever tempted to start a war for their own political ends, they will remember the example of people like Sukarno and Milosevic. During the war they were able to impose martial law and rule their country, but once they lost it their population threw them out of office.
At the end of the day, war itself is the enemy, it causes immeasurable suffering and death to human beings, and we must strive to avoid it at all costs. Military action should only be carried out as an absolute last resort, and only for the most dire and necessary reasons. The costs will be very heavy and we stand to lose much more than we gain if we have a war.
Let us pray that it doesn't happen here. -
That was one of the best posts I have read in a long time. I have been posting in other forums with regards to the same thing.
People need to understand that winning wars nowadays is to do so without bankrupting your economy in winning. No point in winning and then your country gets weak and then lose out to third party. (Iraq invades Kuwait, Iran gets stronger!)
It is sad to see so many of the younger generations picking fights with the northern and southern neighbour. Do you think that the average person in Malaysia or Indonesia really cares about invading Singapore? They don't have to. Just by being unstable in their own countries can collapse the Singapore economy. Remember that Singapore is a very small market. Its purposes exist as a HUB for multinationals to do business in Asia (this came from EDB) If your 2 biggest markets in the region is upset at you or is having internal problems, the multinationals will pull out and shift to Hk.
That is what happened during 1997. Lots of Singapore trade missions to USA telling (hypeing) on the possible instability in HK during handover. Lots of companies relocated to Singapore then. Guess what now. The reverse. Lots of companies going to HK. Why? Because they feel that SEA is going down the drain and also Singapore is not friendly with their neighbours. So what is the best bet? Move their offices to HK.
If there is too much instability or anger in the north and the south, we do not need for them to invade. All they do is just to boycott selling water and food. Give simple reasons like internal difficulties. What happens when this happen? Singaporeans working for multinationals will be fired. Then there will be lots of unemployed on the street. How to pay for food? At least the Malaysians and Indonesians have food to eat and water to drink. How about us?
Also note that if it is a fight between the 2 governments, that is ok as they can thrash it out somewhere. But if the people of Malaysia and Indonesia start to hate Singaporeans, that is a bad sign. Do you know that before 1998, most Chinese in Malaysia supports Singapore. After 1998, most Chinese in Malaysia now hate Singapore. Do you think Taiwan or China care about siding Singapore if all 6-8 million Chinese in Malaysia are howling for our blood? They will care if we pay them.
So what I am suggesting is to stop all these super patroitism and just be friendly to the average malaysian, stop being so racist, make peace with the people.
P.s I hate the Malaysian motorist but once out of the car, I can consider him like an average human being. No problem with him otherwise. -
From the many postings,its pretty obvious there are many ppl concerned about the defence of Singapore
Squabble we might about our defence capabilities
But with so many of us concerned with the defence of this land of ours
We are in good hands
Our concern shows clearly more than anything our determination to defend what is ours
When the need arises, we'll rise up to heed the call to defend this land -
THAT IS A STUPID THING TO ASK!! DON'T FORGET WE GOT AIM-120 AMRAAM MISSILE AND MANY WEAPONS THEY DON'T HAVE. PLUS SINGAPOREANS NOT CHICKEN!!! SURE WE WILL WIN THE WAR.
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Very interesting thread.
For all those talking abt Cat 1 & 2:
1)The really interesting stuff does not even originate in MINDEF.
2)Cat 2 stuff can be found on Janes Defence. Cat 1 is just the tip of the iceberg.
But that does not mean that you guys should go around blowing your horns here. Be good soldiers guys, leave your knowledge where it belongs; in your head, not on a forum. -
Let's not talk emotionally...
Take a look at real figures and stats:
======AirForce Strengths======
Singapore:
F-16A/B : 7
F-16C/D : 42
IF-16DJ : at least 8
E-2C : 4
Fooker 50: 8 (Destroy Ships at 90km)
A4-SU : 60+
(To be replace by Rafale or F/16D by 2010)
F-5S/T : 49 *including 4 RF-5 Photo-Spy
Malaysia:
MIG-29 : 15 (6 without spares to fly)
F/A-18D : 8
F-5E/F : 23 (Unable to fire AIM-120)
AWACS : Zero
British Hawk : 22
Indonesia:
F-16A/B : 12 (4 without spares to fly)
A4E : 30 (only 20+ flyable)
British Hawk : estimated 20+ ?
AWACS : Zero
F-5E/F : 10
** Our neighbourings countries have ZERO AWACS (early warning aircraft that detects enemies at 300 km range). While Singapore have 4 such aircrafts - the E-2C AWACS.
You can see them flying around the CCK, Jurong everyday. Its the slow flying aircraft with a big dish that detects planes 300km away, and planes taking off at Malaysia/Indonesia.
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Indonesia and Malaysia's F-5 can only fire AIM-9P which can kill planes at 15km range. While Singapore's F-5S/T can fire AIM-120 which shoots enemy planes down at 40km range.
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Singapore's IF-16DJ is a special plane that only USAF and IAF have. This plane can penetrate and destroy enemy air defenses without being shot down, due to its special "Electronic Warfare" jammers.
Our neighbours have NONE of these.
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SIngapore pilots are trained by USAF, and have scored equal/better scores in USAF's Red Flag exercises.
Neighbour countries train by themselves in primitive methods.
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Given our large airforce and navy, with modern weapons, we can easily take control of the skies without much worry -
to that AlrGuy (or whatever)
...Sorry, dropping a bomb in Singapore doesn't flatten Singapore.
This is a no-brain nonsense.
Even a Mark-84 2000-pound (the heaviest conventional bomb) can only destroy things about the size of a football field.
LOL...if you do not know weaponry, please stop talking your nonsense, little kid.
And we have more advanced weapons than any of our neighbouring countries.
War is not fought just by dropping bombs, there are tactical details, and ranged-weapons.
Our FH-2000 can hit targets 40km in excess. Does any of our neighbours have such long-range weapons? Sadly...no. Cos its the world's longest range conventional artillery.
Any of them have almost 500 AMX-SM1 tanks? None...they have less than half, even with both countries combined.
These are real statistics. Stop your crappy childish nonsense -
Personally I think Singapore has the techincal aspects of winning the war but pyschlogically......sad to say, my answer is NO!
It is true that SAF on statistics is much more powerful than almost all the ASEAN countries but do you think Singaporeans are READY to fight against others?
Just go to some of the Western sides shopping centres during one of these mobilization excercise. I bet you can see lots and lots of NSmen walking in these shopping malls. Why? Because in case it is a full scale mobilization excersise they won't have to load up the stores and since they are given 8 hrs to report, why report early since the others are also reporting later.
We all keep having a mindset that SAF is much more advanced than our neighbours. Since we have so many secret weapons, why can't our neighbours have even better secret weapons? You may think that they are not finacially strong enough to attain all these weapons but look at Russia and China. They weren't too rich either but there military technology is much more advance. China displayed their weapons during their NDP in 1999 and the weapons to many experts were totally new to them.
I think we shouldn't underestimate our neighbours and at the same time improve on our training for the soldiers. I seriously think that the SAF has evolved to actually be there for the sake of being there. Jus visit BMTC one of these days and you will be shocked at them. Not because of the new chalet-like building but the training. Ask the BMTC instructors if any of your friends happen to be one.
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Where is Montgomery? I thought I am supposed to meet him for lunch????..... -
Hi to Desert Fox,
Its true that a large part of our men are not psychologically ready to face any threat circumstances. Have to agree that Singapore is weakest at psychological defense.
With regards to "secret weapons", I shall not openly reveal any classified information here, but the advanced weapons that we display and openly declare are NOT "secret", its known to all.
As to whether our neighbours have more "secret weapons", you can rest assure that the SAF's Air Photo Unit (which is an intelligence recon unit) and the SAF intelligence force has ways and means to get such information on potential threat, and they are well-trained to archive secrets of potential threats.
So rest assure, we are not sitting ducks who only know ourselves, we do have intelligence units deployed in certain countries to gain information.
Besides the highly-classified intelligence activies which we cannot discuss here, we also have the technology to gain intelligence information through E-2C and ground radars, together with RF-5S aircrafts which does secret recce missions on regular basis.
SAF is also launching a satellite with Israel to gain satellite intelligence information, and signal intelligence. This satellite is believed to be much more advannced than the current Israeli satellite system, with a 1 metre aperture lens and a 50cm resolution.
What's next??
We gotta increase the importance of psychological defence! Technology and weaponry is useless if we have half-hearted men. -
hi all,
just happened to see this interesting forum and would like to add some of my own comments and views on the topic.
first of all,i have done my ns,so i am not some schoolboy who have read or heard abt army life ,stories,experiences,thru testbooks or movies.i have done it.was it siong?of course!there were times when it was fucked up,but also some gd times.ok,ok,to more serious stuff.
nobody wants war!yah,our northen neighbours might scream once in a while,curse at us,blame us for everything under the sun,like their currency drops,trade suffers,no rain ,no fish etc...get the idea?
but we should all know that its all politics.dont get to worried or excited,and start swearing at all malaysians!for fuck?
become like israel and her arab neighbours isit?and once this sort of problems arises,it does stop,it just carries on and on and u think anyone in the world bothers??
just saw on cnn again,middle east trying for peace ,last attempt.my reaction?move to the sports section ,see how my favotite team is playing.
the point is that no body will care,give a fuck,anything.
saw a posting saying thatdont worry we have the best stuff,equipment in the region.true but only just so.everybody should have seen that malaysia is buying 155mm arty,attack helicopters from South africa,APCs from turkey.maybe will not reach our level yet,but soon,their defense Minister is a smart guy,almost can admire him(second time being DM somemore)
so we can talk a lot of cock who is ,bigger betta(sort of like comparing in the urinals ,haha),but only one tiny 5.56 bullet is need to blow any ones brains out.
so let our gov build up the military,let them handle the problems,and dont flame up shit and stuff in forums and places.
for peace man,but if anyone attacks us..... -
Do you know that before 1998, most Chinese in Malaysia supports Singapore. After 1998, most Chinese in Malaysia now hate Singapore.
Mind if I ask where did that informatin come from?
[/B] -
Like someone mention earlier.
Singapore is a international trading hub.
Given the economic infrastructure in Singapore, no neighbouring would want to attempt to invade Singapore.
Why?
We have many western countries who invest loads and loads in Singapore.
If any of the other countries' leader do attempt to invade Singapore, they risk being economically sanction by the participating UN countries and in the cause they risk suffering inflation in their country currency which makes them poorer and probably worse off. When inflation does takes place, unemployment rate will rise.
The public will blame the Government. The leaders risk losing their "powerful" positions too. Of course they could do the "nazi" way within their country but is it worth the trouble? Unless the leader of that country is brainless.
Most countries today are more interested building up their economy rather than "invade and take over" like it was back in the 40s. The Middle East is different from our situation so that is not comparable.
Sadly for us, the water and food supply issue is always of a great disadvantage to us. We just hope technology gets better each day till we won't have to rely on our neighbours for them, water supply that is.
IMHO, having better technology is a good thing but without any good soldier, it is useless. If any soldier is unwilling to risk his life but is being force to, how good of a soldier can he be? All he probably cares about is surviving and nothing like country above self.
If one has to blame that Singapore Army has not much morale, we can only blame our government and our culture.
Due to the hectic life in Singapore and standard of living, money is generally what most of us really care about. Few really cares about spiritual satisfaction.
When searching for a job, how many would actually search for one base on the priority of spiritual satisfaction over money? Most who look for jobs just base their priority on salary.
Doh, 311am. Got work tomorrow, maybe another time.
Interesting forum here
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Death is an illusion created by those who do not believe in themselves, there for i shall never die
Treasure your time, your love and yourself before you lose them. ~Tango~ -
Hi Tango...
True...
We are only as strong as our weakest link. -
Just want to comment.
If SG don't do some research on solving our specky population, then SAF ground soldier will suffer.
When I was in NS, 7 out of 10 soldiers are specky. It's really disturbing figure.
I also think that the government should do something about our psychology and moral when being asked to do NS. Most people just dreaded NS bcoz of the "bad" things their parents or friends told them about NS.
Most S'poreans think NS becomes more like a burden than a responsibility.
Many times we marvel at our technology, I bet some of us know what SAF have from head to toe....but the thing is, do you know what our brothers have?
What I'm trying so say is, don't look down on our army and think that it's useless....but also down underastimate our brother's army too. -
I got some free time to play around so i will answer your questions just to humor those kukus who think singapore cannot win a war.
1) How many soldiers can the SAF put in the field? Inclusive of regulars, NSFs and NSmen (remember they're ALL part of the SAF. NS does NOT end after ORD)
officially 350,000
unofficially 500,000
2) How many soldiers can our northern neighbour (the ONLY one with a land link to us) put in the field? Inclusive of their Volunteer Corps (ignoring their minimal training)
165,000 men
3) Which country in the region has any kind of strategic or tactical SSM? (Surface-to-surface missiles....the one all of u are so worried about)
indonesia had a few but now no more. in fact, no country in SEA has SSM.singapore is also a member of an internation organization that keeps track of all missile sales and transfer around the world.
4) How many naval bases do the Malaysians and the Indonesians have and where are they?
naval base dont win wars, this the british taught us in WW2 during the japanese invasion.
secondly, their naval base are all over the place and not even worth mentioning with the exception of malaysia's lumut naval base, reportedly the largest naval base in SEA that has no air defence! 8X
5) What is the operational status of the much-vaunted Malaysian MIG-29 squadron?
malaysia's 17 mig-29 is NON-operational since delivery years back due to severe engineering problem with respect to electronic integration, structural reinforcement and missile delivery.In fact, malaysian mig still carry duds trainning missile.
while singapore's F-16 has increase rapidly in numbers from original 8 to the present 79.
6) How many missile-armed ships do the Malaysians have and what is the range of the MM-40 Exocet missile compared to the Harpoon used by S'pore? Likewise for Indonesia.
they have more ships, but singapore got more missile per ships.
MM-40 exocet range is approx 60km
harpoon is approx 125km
7) How many tanks do the Malaysians have and what is the size of their mechanised infantry? Similarly, what about S'pore?
malaysia has approx 50 tanks
singapore has approx 500 tanks
malaysia have one mechanised infantry namely the 4th brigade. also known as the RDF.
singapore mechanised infantry unit is classified but last estimated to be of at least 2 division strength.it has become impossible to track this because of locally build bionix IFV, as SAF can build any number and easily under report the number.
The SAF is the most highly-respected and rated armed forces in the region by the US and most European nations. Why?
cos SAF has a proven record while malaysia always send the same unit for exercise with other country which brings to query what is the strength of other MAF units.
9) When ths SAF takes part in tactical (NOT training) exercises with foreign countries (even the US), who wins most of the time?
singapore. win by any means is the motto.
non of singapores neighbour has the ability to play fire against singapore.
1. they cant produce their own weapon and ammunition despite their so call bountiful resources. in fact, singapore has been supplying MAF with the ammunition that it uses for day to day usage and is the key support for malaysian defense industry transfering techonology and equipment to enable malaysia to make just the basic 5.56mm bullet.
2. they lack the techonology to build and maintain high tech weapons like fighter plane on their own. in fact singapore maintain RMAF fighter planes and choppers.
3. most of SEA nations weapons are purchased from other countries under stringent terms and conditions that specifies and limits the weapons usage, transfer and disposal. so if malaysia wanna wack singapore, it must first obtain permission from at least half the world nations or risk running out of spare parts in the mist of a war of national survival. -
Yes and the 500k people is 16% of the population. their 165k soldiers is 0.75% of the population. That is all the adult males of army age in our country. But guess what, in terms of casulty figures, we will be more hurt than them in a war as every singapore soldier dying is like 7 of their soldiers dying. How long do you think we should sustain this kind of casulty rate.
Just buy some scuds from Korea or Iraq .. who need SSM high tech nonsense .. hello .. Johor to Singapore is 2 minutes by air ... launch 10 Scuds into singapore from all directions, do you think we can intercept all in time?
yes ... but guess what .. the naval invasion (if any) will be from the south. Indonesia has bought the entire east german navy. You do not need high tech ships to launch missiles from the south to our CDB
we may rule the air and sea. Ok.
Malaysia may have only 50 tanks according to you but what is use of tanks in concrete city or jungle?
SAF is highly respected... yes. But have we been blooded? Do you think that our soldiers are as aggressive as one of those madman in East Timor? Even the thought of facing one of those buggers chill my spine. Have we ever taken part in peacekeeping missions (eg Somalia) where our troops had to fight to rescue some US soldiers? (Pakistan and Malaysian troops rescued USA peacekeepers during mission there)
If all malaysia can produce is m16 rifle and 5.56 bullet, it is enough . Why shoot at tank or plane when they can shoot at soldiers? Once all soldiers killed, you can drop homemade bomb into tank
Singapore will run out of food and water before Malaysia or Indonesia run out of spare parts our bullets.
So please don't be too proud of our NATIONAL capabilities. use it as a deterrence. Not to be so actsy ... Peace is the only option.
Singapore has no way of defending itself. Your own posts in the other thread just proves that we have to hold on before USa comes to our rescue.
And another thing ... even if we win the war, what happens next? All the foreign companies will have fled to HK. Who is going to rebuild for us? Malaysia and Indonesia will not be invested by the MNCs so USa will close all its companies in Singapore and based them in HK. How to rebuild? How to feed itself? What resources do we have left? -
Honestly, I could tell you, in a war, it is the people's mentality whom will make the difference.
Talking about weapons, technology, do you think any country will really show their true strength prior to any war? How can we be sure that Malaysia has no nuclear weapon? NO ONE CAN BE SURE OF THAT. If you tell me you're sure, unless you're the head of state in Malaysia, maybe.
As I said, only the people who fight for it makes the difference.
Let me ask you a simple question, if you play a game, etc. Chinese Chess, Starcraft, C&C or any competitive games, if you do not wish to fight, do you think you will win? Given you have every advantage but you don't feel like fighting?
I know games cannot be direct referal to real life situation.
So what if you know the statistic of any opposition army? It is all paperwork.
I would not say Singapore will not be able to win a war but eventually no matter what, it will boil down to the people who fight for us. Does SAF personnel have the morale? We won't know till the day come because no one can predict who will stay to fight and who will not.
For those people who like to sterotype with statistic, I can tell you, STFU. For I am sure only highly personnel will have the true statistic of their army. Unless you can telling me you're a high official from so many different armed forces in so many nations that you have access to their real army statistic. So, try not to sterotype with statistic anymore for this post has enough of such bullshits. -
I agree peace is the best opinion =).Originally posted by kenhor:Yes and the 500k people is 16% of the population. their 165k soldiers is 0.75% of the population. That is all the adult males of army age in our country. But guess what, in terms of casulty figures, we will be more hurt than them in a war as every singapore soldier dying is like 7 of their soldiers dying. How long do you think we should sustain this kind of casulty rate.
Just buy some scuds from Korea or Iraq .. who need SSM high tech nonsense .. hello .. Johor to Singapore is 2 minutes by air ... launch 10 Scuds into singapore from all directions, do you think we can intercept all in time?
yes ... but guess what .. the naval invasion (if any) will be from the south. Indonesia has bought the entire east german navy. You do not need high tech ships to launch missiles from the south to our CDB
we may rule the air and sea. Ok.
Malaysia may have only 50 tanks according to you but what is use of tanks in concrete city or jungle?
SAF is highly respected... yes. But have we been blooded? Do you think that our soldiers are as aggressive as one of those madman in East Timor? Even the thought of facing one of those buggers chill my spine. Have we ever taken part in peacekeeping missions (eg Somalia) where our troops had to fight to rescue some US soldiers? (Pakistan and Malaysian troops rescued USA peacekeepers during mission there)
If all malaysia can produce is m16 rifle and 5.56 bullet, it is enough . Why shoot at tank or plane when they can shoot at soldiers? Once all soldiers killed, you can drop homemade bomb into tank
Singapore will run out of food and water before Malaysia or Indonesia run out of spare parts our bullets.
So please don't be too proud of our NATIONAL capabilities. use it as a deterrence. Not to be so actsy ... Peace is the only option.
Singapore has no way of defending itself. Your own posts in the other thread just proves that we have to hold on before USa comes to our rescue.
And another thing ... even if we win the war, what happens next? All the foreign companies will have fled to HK. Who is going to rebuild for us? Malaysia and Indonesia will not be invested by the MNCs so USa will close all its companies in Singapore and based them in HK. How to rebuild? How to feed itself? What resources do we have left?
As for winning or losing a war, it will really depend on the mentality of the SAF personnels then as I said in my post. I have quoted my example though not a direct referal but I think it's a similar situation for human beings. -
rebuilding would take some time, but where there is profit, there will be buissnessman, dont think too holy of them. even if it is blood money or war money or money from the dead, those carrions will not spare any for you or me.Originally posted by kenhor:Yes and the 500k people is 16% of the population. their 165k soldiers is 0.75% of the population. That is all the adult males of army age in our country. But guess what, in terms of casulty figures, we will be more hurt than them in a war as every singapore soldier dying is like 7 of their soldiers dying. How long do you think we should sustain this kind of casulty rate.
first you must tell me the kill ratio.
Just buy some scuds from Korea or Iraq .. who need SSM high tech nonsense .. hello .. Johor to Singapore is 2 minutes by air ... launch 10 Scuds into singapore from all directions, do you think we can intercept all in time?
only 10 scuds?? after that?? even if i let all your 10 scuds hit singapore, what difference would that make??
oh... its quite simply, they buy 10 scuds, we buy a hundred scuds, they buy 100 scuds, we buy a thoudsand scuds. who wins?? north korea lor. makes both country look pretty dumb right?
yes ... but guess what .. the naval invasion (if any) will be from the south. Indonesia has bought the entire east german navy. You do not need high tech ships to launch missiles from the south to our CDB
problem is half of that fleet is under the sea already, secondly, shooting missiles at CBD isnt gonna win a war. it merely starts the hostility that will bring other units and weapons to use.
we may rule the air and sea. Ok.
Malaysia may have only 50 tanks according to you but what is use of tanks in concrete city or jungle?
the british ask the same question you just did more than 50 years ago. the japanese show them the purpose of tank in concrete city and jungle that the british never forget as many died in POW camps.
SAF is highly respected... yes. But have we been blooded? Do you think that our soldiers are as aggressive as one of those madman in East Timor? Even the thought of facing one of those buggers chill my spine. Have we ever taken part in peacekeeping missions (eg Somalia) where our troops had to fight to rescue some US soldiers? (Pakistan and Malaysian troops rescued USA peacekeepers during mission there)
pakistan units have to be forced to fight by US soldier holding a pistol to their head in somalia.
the malaysian troops in bosnia kowtowed and begged for forgiveness from the serbs when 2 of their more zealous soldier chop down a cross. they replaced the cross of course or as the serbs said, they will not guarantee MAF peacekeepers safety.
If all malaysia can produce is m16 rifle and 5.56 bullet, it is enough . Why shoot at tank or plane when they can shoot at soldiers? Once all soldiers killed, you can drop homemade bomb into tank
malaysian soldier use bow and arrow to shoot at tanks one. nothing to it. all bomoh magic mah.
Singapore will run out of food and water before Malaysia or Indonesia run out of spare parts our bullets.
who can tell?? they can target our food dumps and we can target their ammo dumps.
So please don't be too proud of our NATIONAL capabilities. use it as a deterrence. Not to be so actsy ... Peace is the only option.
peace is the only option given to us by the superpowers. we have no say nor power to demand peace or war.
Singapore has no way of defending itself. Your own posts in the other thread just proves that we have to hold on before USa comes to our rescue.
we dont need USA to come to our rescue, we only need USA to sit its big butts on malaysian govt.
And another thing ... even if we win the war, what happens next? All the foreign companies will have fled to HK. Who is going to rebuild for us? Malaysia and Indonesia will not be invested by the MNCs so USa will close all its companies in Singapore and based them in HK. How to rebuild? How to feed itself? What resources do we have left? -
I can see that you are more confident than most people are in defending our country. Except that i find that most of your rebuttals of my points VERY childish.
Malaysian troops using bow and arrows on our tanks.... the first thing that life teaches you is that NEVER underestimate your enemy. If you are fully confident of your capabilities, fine. If you are looking down on your enemy, I will be very sad for you.
As for USA sitting on Malaysia .. hah hah hah. Why should they? I will bet that our govt will definately beg them to intervene. When Kuwait was invaded by Saddam, half the cost was borne by Saudi Arabia. If we are invaded, be prepared to PAY for USA to send in their troops.
If you are a working person, you will know what value Singapore is to the region. We exists as a springboard into the SEA region. If peace does not exist, we are finished (even govt claims that our growth depends on Indonesian stability) as there will be huge drop in FDI. That means less jobs, less growth, more unress.
If the day ever comes, I feel sad that the sacrifice that I have put to make this country great will be demolished . Sure we will rebuild ... but what for ... we could have prevented it in the first place by being less arrogant.