Singapore At War
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**best i clarify something, the F-16 need only 300 meter runway when it is carrying only just the normal loadouts for AAI mission.Originally posted by tripwire:Regarding to you last post, you said it takes 300m for an F-16 to take off. It definately take more. If you're in NS, 300m is like the distance of our range. That's too short. The shortest airstrip is about 1.5 klicks and F16 is not F14/F18 or harrier.
*F-14 and F-18 are catapult launched, harrier uses VSTOL. F-16 is a light figher with a powerful engine, 300 meter is all it needs to take off.
* the long runways that you see are made for large aircraft like C-130, Fokker 50 and E2C which does not have a higher power to weight ratio.
*a 4 km runway is meant for boeing 747. how much heavier is a 747 compare to a F-16?
**but if you load the F-16 with all sort of weapon and gadget to the maximun load of nearly 20TONS of bombs, missile, pods, fuel or whatever, then the F-16 would need a runway of 750meter. but how often do you think there is a need to deck the F-16 with so much arsenal?? -
That road aka runway is found in the west,somewhere near Tengah,went there before,was super ulu even in the daytime,ehehe
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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour
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Waiting for Diablo 2 Add-on -
haven't been here in almost a year....
interesting posts in the past 1 year, i see.
well, with regards to the accuracy of tripwire's postings, he's accurate over 90% of the time, but there are some things which i disagree, but nvm, it's not impt and i think we've said a lot of things which shouldn't be said here in a public forum
granted, a lot of information can be found in the world today if u bother to look for it, but personally, i dun feel that it equates publicising it.
which is why i merely asked a few qns the last time to invoke some thoughts into pple out there. yes, i know the answers which tripwire so kindly provided, but i didn't want to publicise it.
anyway, just a few add-ons....
a) abt the Apache...what wasn't approved for sale was the Maverick missile. personally, i think that as long as we have Hellfire and Longbow, it's enough. We don't need the Thunderbolt (for what???), so the Apache's fine for anti-armour from the air.
b) yes, bases don't win wars, but what is in the bases do affect wars. i asked the bases qn as what is in the base will have to get to the area of operations from where the base is. if your base is in a non-strategic area and the time lag to the AO is too great...
anyway, on a final note, tripwire, i really think that we shouldn't post too much details on public forums... -
Tony Tan felt the need to educate the public because he saw that many people (like some on this forum, and even some of our own NSFs) refuse to believe that Singapore can be defended. For once, they decided to show lots of military hardware on National Day, and make sure that all commanders brief NS men with National Education lectures during ICT. Just to try to convince us that Singapore can win a war and can be defended. There are 4 control points around our little island that allows us to defend our island in times of war.
However, even with this openness, do not divulge too much information, unless it is "open secret". I know a number of things from my training in ICT. A number of which are so sensitive, that the mere mention of such kind of capability invites political backlash in the media from our northern neigbour. Even Jane's don't mention them. I'm very sure some of the NSmen here are also being trained in some of the new capabilities.
So, let's keep our mouths shut here. After all, this IS a public forum. -
are u in the project inferno levi or project color wind.
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wow,3 mths have passed since i last visited and so much interesting stuff in the forum!
for someone who surfs everyday to check out bits and pieces of what military hardware singapore has,and thinks that he knows what spore has,this has really been a surprise.
i am not goin to add my list of what we have,but i was surprised in todays straits times that Spore Tech has just unveiled a new wheeled AFv in idex2001!
anyone out there has any idea do we have any in Armour?
if its in the papers,we can be pretty sure that its not a secret anymore.
so ,anyone have any info? -
They even annouced our underground missile storage facilities of the new naval base in our papers. Years ago, this was classified info. Given the limited openness these days, It's not surprising that they announce new armour in the papers.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Altrex:
[B]Quisling, forget it. Arguing defence capabilities with people totally ignorant about strategic issues and the exact military capability of countries in the region is a total waste of time.......
Msg Starts here:
Altrex...a very nice presentation. Having done my 2 and a half, i do agree that any offensive by the enemy will be met with a convincing pre-emptive attack of our own..
a word of caution however...it would be wise not to SPECIFY the countries which are our likely foes. Such serious allegations can lead to severe repercussions for yourself..
cheers! -
Dear everyone who have posted on this forum,
First of all let me just declare that im a Malaysian (and Malay) so that people would know where my views are coming from.
I am not here to pick a fight with any of you but just to present my opinion on what have been posted on this particular forum.
First of all, relations between Singapore and Malaysia will continue to have turbulent moments for quite sometime due to our history. We used to be one country which later acrimoniously broke up. But just remember this: There will always be politicians who will talk nonsense (usually from our side) and those that are more than happy to capitalise on the turbulence between Malaysia and Singapore (to some extent I think both sides are guilty of this). But thats all to it. No one gets physically hurt. Period.
Anyway, to some extent, Malaysians nowadays are less succeptible to manipulation by politicians from the gov. after Anwar's case (but they could still be manipulated by those from the opposition i think).
Now regarding any potential conflict btween Malaysia and Singapore.
I think it is clear from Malaysian defence spending pattern (how much we spend overall and what we buy), our training (minimal joint arms, fibua and amphib)and our dispositions (units scattered all over the country in peace time formation, armour forces on all approaches to KL rather than bunched in Johore) we do not intent to ever use force on Singapore. And I think Singapore leaders (mil and gov) know about this too.
SAF capabilities are known to everyone in the region. We never tried to fully match SAF capabilities but only try counter them in a limited manner (i.e. limited number new long range arti , sams, atgw ) even when SAF clearly develops offensive capabilities to be directed against Malaysia (i.e. Combined arms divisions, Heliborne trained inf, Amphib trained inf, long range Arty, New LSTs, Attack Helicopters). These are capabilities designed to rapidly attack & destroy our forces and hold land without prior warning.
I understand from your defence doctrine that these are essential capabilities but I think the quantity of assets and training SAF have has crossed the line between having a deterrent force (If you attack me you will suffer) to a threatening force(I will and can attack you any time). It is also becoming more and more provocative.
From looking at our purchase of naval and aviation assets, it is clear in my opinion that our threat orientation is towards the Spratly Island and dealing with LIC.
We bought frigates with close in AD weapons and fast corvettes (second hand by the way) simply because our navy is hard pressed to maintain a credible detterent force in the Spratly area. We rushed into buying some of these assets and were very annoyed when they were delivered late as we (i.e. our navy commandos)were very exposed in the Spratlys.
It could also be noted that the new Naval base for the proposed Sub Force will be in Sabah, East Malaysia.
Our navy simply do not have the resources to put a strong and credible blockade without exposing our territory. We just have short of enough vessels (to illustrate, during the Sipadan crisis, our assets were streched really thin).
As for our fighters, our principal strike fighters (the FA-1
is geared towards Maritime Strike with the MIG-29s providing air cover. The Migs were purposely modified recently to allow them to provide sufficient air coverage over the South China Sea.
The unprotected bases such as Lumut Naval Base, Kuantan AF & Naval base and Butterworth AF base are clearly signs to Singapore and SAF that these assets are not directed towards Singapore. Our aircraft are only parked in sun shelters not too dissimilar from a car garage (no hardened shelters). All our bases (Lumut, Kuantan, Butterworth + army bases)and facilities (i.e. EW radars) does not have medium or long range air defense.
Our officers are trained and exposed enough to know that these assets are sitting ducks to Singapore but I think the goverment have decided long ago that this will be a sign of our goodwill.
What more do Singapore wants as a sign that we will never use force on them?
We do not have illusions that our Armed forces is the mightiest in the region capable of destroying anyone (nor do we aspire or profess to be one).
And we do not want to try matching SAF simply for the fact our money is simply needed for development.
What is my point from writing this post?
Stop thinking that Malaysia poses a serious military threat to Singapore. We never were and hopefully never will.
But if Singaporeans continue to treat Malaysia as a military threat even when all the signs given is that we are not,it might become a self fulfilling prophesy simply because we also need a deterent against all potential threats (in this case the SAF threat is real). It also provides fuel for those who want to capitalise on our turbulent relation.
If you want to compare strenght of armed forces, do it with another country. We were never in a contest with Singapore.
Force would not make our relations smoother.
Should there be anyone offended by my post, im sorry as i do not mean any offense.
Thank You.
Note to all readers: All the above opinions were based on publicly available information that i have inferred from.
[This message has been edited by eye (edited 14 April 2001).] -
First of all, I would like to ‘enlighten’ someone named Adrian yxt, I’m very sure that u r from Indonesia, hence, once after ur president (that guy that almost get blind) had given this stupid comment as Singapore was just a little red dot in the map, and u guys start to ‘laugh’ and give disgusting statement on us!!! Perhaps, the way u said theres 390 million of population I can assure that u r not Singaporean!!!! Hi pretender!! Isit too disgrace to for u to identified urself as Indonesian???
Rite, back to topic. First of all, I must say that I’m a ex- regular solider in the SAF and have spent 7yr in one of the active unit. I’m sure (always!!!) that for the current strength of SAF, we can defense our country not only on one intruder but few!!!! If u r smart enough, just try to get some information on war and u will notice that, all war will depend heavily on air- force. The Republic of Singapore Air force was to be consider as one of the most ‘current’ unit with its later equipment. If theres war. Our air force will be capable to control the sky and directly it indicates that we will have full control of the war. Still remember Gulf War? Can u recall the power of air bombardments?? Its as simple as ABC…. Just fully utilize of the fighter jet u have and it will increase the possibility of winning!!! Again, if u have doubt in our air force, pls pls pls… do some research again!!! Do u know that Singapore have how many fighter jet??? If u r Singaporean, and it happen that u r in the air force….. then do u know the exact nos of jet we have??? Overhere, I don’t think anyone can give me the answer… hence, the amount of fighter jet we have will definitely make some ‘crazy dog’ at the north of us to have a sleepless nite!!!! -
eye:Originally posted by eye:Dear everyone who have posted on this forum,
First of all let me just declare that im a Malaysian (and Malay) so that people would know where my views are coming from.
I am not here to pick a fight with any of you but just to present my opinion on what have been posted on this particular forum.
First of all, relations between Singapore and Malaysia will continue to have turbulent moments for quite sometime due to our history. We used to be one country which later acrimoniously broke up. But just remember this: There will always be politicians who will talk nonsense (usually from our side) and those that are more than happy to capitalise on the turbulence between Malaysia and Singapore (to some extent I think both sides are guilty of this). But thats all to it. No one gets physically hurt. Period.
Anyway, to some extent, Malaysians nowadays are less succeptible to manipulation by politicians from the gov. after Anwar's case (but they could still be manipulated by those from the opposition i think).
Now regarding any potential conflict btween Malaysia and Singapore.
I think it is clear from Malaysian defence spending pattern (how much we spend overall and what we buy), our training (minimal joint arms, fibua and amphib)and our dispositions (units scattered all over the country in peace time formation, armour forces on all approaches to KL rather than bunched in Johore) we do not intent to ever use force on Singapore. And I think Singapore leaders (mil and gov) know about this too.
SAF capabilities are known to everyone in the region. We never tried to fully match SAF capabilities but only try counter them in a limited manner (i.e. limited number new long range arti , sams, atgw ) even when SAF clearly develops offensive capabilities to be directed against Malaysia (i.e. Combined arms divisions, Heliborne trained inf, Amphib trained inf, long range Arty, New LSTs, Attack Helicopters). These are capabilities designed to rapidly attack & destroy our forces and hold land without prior warning.
I understand from your defence doctrine that these are essential capabilities but I think the quantity of assets and training SAF have has crossed the line between having a deterrent force (If you attack me you will suffer) to a threatening force(I will and can attack you any time). It is also becoming more and more provocative.
From looking at our purchase of naval and aviation assets, it is clear in my opinion that our threat orientation is towards the Spratly Island and dealing with LIC.
We bought frigates with close in AD weapons and fast corvettes (second hand by the way) simply because our navy is hard pressed to maintain a credible detterent force in the Spratly area. We rushed into buying some of these assets and were very annoyed when they were delivered late as we (i.e. our navy commandos)were very exposed in the Spratlys.
It could also be noted that the new Naval base for the proposed Sub Force will be in Sabah, East Malaysia.
Our navy simply do not have the resources to put a strong and credible blockade without exposing our territory. We just have short of enough vessels (to illustrate, during the Sipadan crisis, our assets were streched really thin).
As for our fighters, our principal strike fighters (the FA-1 is geared towards Maritime Strike with the MIG-29s providing air cover. The Migs were purposely modified recently to allow them to provide sufficient air coverage over the South China Sea.
The unprotected bases such as Lumut Naval Base, Kuantan AF & Naval base and Butterworth AF base are clearly signs to Singapore and SAF that these assets are not directed towards Singapore. Our aircraft are only parked in sun shelters not too dissimilar from a car garage (no hardened shelters). All our bases (Lumut, Kuantan, Butterworth + army bases)and facilities (i.e. EW radars) does not have medium or long range air defense.
Our officers are trained and exposed enough to know that these assets are sitting ducks to Singapore but I think the goverment have decided long ago that this will be a sign of our goodwill.
What more do Singapore wants as a sign that we will never use force on them?
We do not have illusions that our Armed forces is the mightiest in the region capable of destroying anyone (nor do we aspire or profess to be one).
And we do not want to try matching SAF simply for the fact our money is simply needed for development.
What is my point from writing this post?
Stop thinking that Malaysia poses a serious military threat to Singapore. We never were and hopefully never will.
But if Singaporeans continue to treat Malaysia as a military threat even when all the signs given is that we are not,it might become a self fulfilling prophesy simply because we also need a deterent against all potential threats (in this case the SAF threat is real). It also provides fuel for those who want to capitalise on our turbulent relation.
If you want to compare strenght of armed forces, do it with another country. We were never in a contest with Singapore.
Force would not make our relations smoother.
Should there be anyone offended by my post, im sorry as i do not mean any offense.
Thank You.
Note to all readers: All the above opinions were based on publicly available information that i have inferred from.
[This message has been edited by eye (edited 14 April 2001).]
a very nice speech...apart from one thing...combined ops and heliborne movements are done by any force in the world, and it is neither offensive nor defensive...it's how u interpret it. Malaysia also has these capabilities (u should know being a malaysian)
and btw, most of wat u read in this forum are points to ponder, not to be taken entirely at face value...and since most of the members are locals, u should expect some "anti-***" sections which u might find provocative...
i applaud ur attempt at easing the tension...however, most ppl (on either side of the causeway) are more educated now, war is not in either side's best interest...
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Don't worry eye, s'pore will not attack M'sia one lah.
We all everyday so busy with life and work where got time to think about invading. Although our army force is very large...but it largely made out of ORDed NS personnel.....meaning reservist Soldier who have a life and career outside. So it only means that our force based solely on defence only.
So you can sit back and relax cause SG won't attack anyone one.
But that doesn't mean you (or rather you gov) can push us around and blame us for everything. I don't hate M'sia in anyway, in fact I love to visit M'sia but I'm pissed off when you all threaten to CUT the WATER SUPPLY. Everytime M'sia quarrel with S'pore, Msia will use WATER to threaten us. You have no idea but I'll tell you....the WATER SUPPLY issue is very sensitive so you better tell you fellow citizens dun joke or threaten us with water supply. I won't elaborate but your gov also know about the WATER ISSUE....but you won't be threaten for long cause in years to come, we'll produce our own water.OK lah, sorry if I scared you :p
I know the SAF may be a bit too "aggressive" in buying alot of military hardware but weapons don't count, it's the mindset of the soldiers. S'porean soldier's mindset are.....peace. In the army We not are "psychoed" to hate anyone. We are all peace-loving people. No S'porean will the right mind will want to start a war (some even hate NS) so why worry??
But what about M'sians? All the anti-SG articles by PAPERS and all the anti-SG PUBLIC SPEECHES......I really wonder.
BTW: Hope you don't take some of the posts in this topic seriously.....most are bullshit only for flaming others.
[This message has been edited by Silenthunter (edited 25 April 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Silenthunter (edited 25 April 2001).] -
i agree totally with silenthunter.we are all actually peace loving people.and i am sure that malaysians are as well.we all share more or less the same culture,food,life,language.
we have a large(though 80% reservist)army.i dont think that is going to change.we might have the most modernised weapons in the region,but so does malaysia.i agree that it might seem offensive to our neighbours,but having a large army does reassure our people in times of trouble.eg riots in jakata,mad people chopping off each others heads in kalimantan.when i woke up one morning and saw in the pic of a guy holding a heagd in his hand,i thank god that we had our army! i am sure that malaysians were also glad that they had a professionally trained army able to defend themselves.
Our national service also serves as a means to integrate the many races together,to throw us together(though i didnt really enjoy the daily morning runs that much)
and like silent hunter said,most of us have lifes and work after the 2.5 years spent during ns,we treat our reservist training as duty,and of course to meet up with old army buddies!
we will never want war and i am sure so does our neigbours. -
In response to this topic I would say tat Singapore is 100% undefendable. These countries can easily defeat singapore.
Singapore is not self-dependant.Sending a topedo at our 'import'(Water) pipes would
send us into crisis. Our food supply can also be easily cut off.Ok you may say tat we have reserves.But wif 3.9 million ppl how long can the supplies last.The bombing of HDB flats are also strategic. War is not just killing soldiers/bombing missile turrets. Bombing HDB flats would severely hamper the movements of soldiers in Singapore
the amount of deaths would shaken the morale of soldiers.(Their families)The ppl of singapore are inexperienced in the fields of warfare thus are not effective soldiers.Most of our soldiers are soldiers because they do not have a choice, even wif training there are still those who will be 'deserters.'From wat i see loyalty is not awfully high locally.And others countries in general are more self sufficient they can destroy singapore's supplies and hold a siege and singapore would be forced to go on the offensive or seek external aid.The armed forces serves onli as a deterent and so is superior equipment.Why do u think tat Singapore is eager to improve diplomatic relations wif other countries, it is b cosz they are potential allies in war.Tats all i have to say. -
Dear Dyc3d@r9,
I respect your views but i think you should give the Sing Gov. and SAF a little more credit. They have thought and done a lot to make sure Singapore is secure.
To the others above who have responded to my post, thank you for the assurances given.
I would try to post some comments by next week.
Thank you. -
Dear eye ,
Although the efforts of the singapore government are admirable it is maybe futile
altho better than nothing.My previous post was saying singapore is some wat undefendable. I'm not being critical of the government, but just seeinng things from a strategic point of view.Thanks 4 ur comments aniwaes -
sigh sigh sigh..... even my dog know how to safe guard my house when we r not around.... as for u, before any war has emerge and u had start hostin ur ur white flag.... sigh sigh sigh.... kinda worst then a dog.... sad for u man......Originally posted by Dyc3d@r9:Dear eye ,
Although the efforts of the singapore government are admirable it is maybe futile
altho better than nothing.My previous post was saying singapore is some wat undefendable. I'm not being critical of the government, but just seeinng things from a strategic point of view.Thanks 4 ur comments aniwaes -
I agree with you Dyc3d@r9 up to a certain extend. But I would not say that SG is 100% undefendable.
Everyone knows that when it comes to war, land and resources are very important. That's part of the reason why SAF's defence strategy is somewhat "offensive". If you've to NS, have you even wondered why we are train in jungle warfare whereas There's only about 15% forest left in SG. I won't emphasis on how the strategy goes about cause there's no need to say here. If you really interested, check out Jane's military magazine. But basically if the enemy step on our soil or bomb our HDB, we practically considered lost. Our air defence is also based that strategy, that's why we have the AWACS (aka hawkeye) to keep a look out (also look out for our neighbors too).
Theory wise, this sounded like a foolproof strategy but it's always easier said than done. The main weakness of SAF, like what you said, as that we are not combat-proven. None of our soldiers had actually gone to war before. The closest thing to combat we've ever gotten to is being UN observers.
Of course I'm not saying we should send someone to war, but having these experience will prove useful.
I know that this loyalty problem is quite serious. Although I say before I won't desert SG. I also dunno if I will really report back to camp if there's a need. I'm not very brave....but if my buddies go, I will join them. Dyc3d@r9, if your buddies also go, will you join them to fight or will you stay with your family and wait for death/escape?
I'm not saying I like being a soldier (who likes?) but if there's a need, I think i'll appreciate what i was forced to learn in NS.
I think this loyalty problem is due to the fact that we are too well off. There's no violence and unrest in SG and people take that for granted.
I also think it's due to influence among parents/relative and friends. In the olden days, being a soldier is a dirty and "low-class" job. Our country has no trend of war so there's no respect by the public for a job of defending our country.
Many people are think NS is a waste of their youth and delayed their education. they think that it's waste to defend something that cannot be defended. I do agree that too.
But for me NS is not totally wasted, I dare to say I've met some of the best friends in the army. I've changed alot too. I think NS is also a good form of building up a character. It also trains up your mental endurance and instill a bit of self-dicipline on you. Of course, not everyone have that good experience. I basically feel that it's up to you to determind your NS life. If you are the cao keng/quiet/anti-social and rebelious type who ust dunwant to do/bother anything....chances are you NS will suck. But if you have a positive attitude (not garang,fit or siao on, just positive can already) your NS should be okay.
opps...out of point....okay back to topic.... :p
Many people are also ignorant of the capabilities of the SAF...even for those who have been through NS. There a popular thinking among Singaporeans:
"NS what for? We'll also loose anyway. The enemy just have to drop one atomic bomb and SG is flatten"
This question has been raise to one of my CO in my NS times. He then said, "The above sentence is correct in a sense but who's going to drop the atomic bomb at us? SAF not setup to defend against Nuclear attack. SAF is setup to defend against conventional and chemical attacks."
Dyc3d@r9, you said that "these" countries can defeat SG easily, what I think is "these" countries might defeat SG, but it'll definately not be thateasy. OF course, it's not going to be easy for us too.
In case you want to flame me, I'm not some high-ranking regular officer trying to brainwash you. I'm just a bloody "nuah" and "ciao-keng" ORDed civilian voicing my opinion.
I respect you views....but i just wish you have a little "faith" in your country...it's no that bad although it has many flaws in the GOV and stuff. -
Dear NDU,
I don mean it tat way. Well, I did not say that we should surrender when at war or watsoever. I am saying is that singapore is extremely difficult to defend.I'm sure u had ur fair share of fights in school so have I its the same thing actually.Think about it.....BTW this are my views,There is no need to b so offensive. I would prefer u 2 present a sound argument against my point, instead of these unconstructive points of urs. -
Dear Silenthunter,
I have not been to NS yet and won't be 4 another 3 yrs.I agree that the possibility of
droping an atomic-bomb is unlikely.Indeed your words are enlightening.But although now convinced that SG might not lose, I still believe that the odds are some what against us. I am not awfully brave too.But would still stick with my buddies, so if there is a war I will still go back if my buddies are wif me.(The one man wins war thing happens onli in movies.)I am not saying NS is a waste cosz without NS we would be doomed. Our neighbours are not too friendly with us so NS would help prevent any reckless aggression from them.Also the need 2 become offensive is a major disadvantage to us. It leaves our base(SG) with less troops. A miscalculated offense may be fatal because if the enemy is undetected or somehow surprise attacked SG.(Radar is not 100% effective)We would be in trouble.
I am glad to say that u convinced me.I admit my views are somewat pessimistic and i am sorry 4 tat.BTW i am onli 18 so am not as wise as u.Thanks this ur comments were constructive... -
dear Dyc3d@r9,
when i was your age,i had the same thoughts exactly(btw i am only like only mid twenties ya,not old man yet!)my buddies and i used to argued why the fish we had to serve NS,when we could use the 2 years plus to study,work etc.we used to analyse the all the points over and over again.there didnt seem to be any good pts at all in doing NS.
but then,the enlistment letter came,and tada!
shaved botak before you realised it!
i am not going to bore you abt how good or f-up the army is.just go in with a positive outlook,meaning some things just sucks!(like have the most f-up sgt in your unit as your sgt)accept it.it took me a while to realise that thru all the training and scoldings and tekans,NS has its positive side to it,and yes,a lot of your good frens will be made in the army.
just remember that our govt spends 5-6 billion dollars a year on our defense.it is a lot of money to make sure that if we kena attack,even if we lose,the other side will suffer even more. -
If u r still GREEN and has not been to NS, then u ASK or just keep ur big mouth shut!!! IÂ’m not sayin that u cant post any comment or ur point of view!!! But u can put it in a more suitable manner. Such as, I think Singapore will be defeat by Â…Â… NOTÂ…..In response to this topic I would say that Singapore is 100% undefendable. These countries can easily defeat Singapore!!! What give u so sure that Singapore is 100% un- defendable???Â… so, if u r not sure next timeÂ… u better askÂ… or u can FOCÂ…Â… (thatÂ’s FxxK ONE CORNER)
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Hey chillout, don be so damn farking criticalOriginally posted by NDU:If u r still GREEN and has not been to NS, then u ASK or just keep ur big mouth shut!!! IÂ’m not sayin that u cant post any comment or ur point of view!!! But u can put it in a more suitable manner. Such as, I think Singapore will be defeat by Â…Â… NOTÂ…..In response to this topic I would say that Singapore is 100% undefendable. These countries can easily defeat Singapore!!! What give u so sure that Singapore is 100% un- defendable???Â… so, if u r not sure next timeÂ… u better askÂ… or u can FOCÂ…Â… (thatÂ’s FxxK ONE CORNER)
cosz it is obvious that singapore is at a disadvantage.Ok maybe 100% is too much but i believe to a certain extend singapore is undefendable.BTW other countries' military are(mostly)made up of regulars.SGs are well not trained as much.... -
Hmmm i see ur point but if its casualties singapore may have less.But economically i believe SG will lose out.ppl will not do business here if there is a war and we all know where SGs economy is largely based on.Originally posted by m113apc:dear Dyc3d@r9,
when i was your age,i had the same thoughts exactly(btw i am only like only mid twenties ya,not old man yet!)my buddies and i used to argued why the fish we had to serve NS,when we could use the 2 years plus to study,work etc.we used to analyse the all the points over and over again.there didnt seem to be any good pts at all in doing NS.
but then,the enlistment letter came,and tada!
shaved botak before you realised it!
i am not going to bore you abt how good or f-up the army is.just go in with a positive outlook,meaning some things just sucks!(like have the most f-up sgt in your unit as your sgt)accept it.it took me a while to realise that thru all the training and scoldings and tekans,NS has its positive side to it,and yes,a lot of your good frens will be made in the army.
just remember that our govt spends 5-6 billion dollars a year on our defense.it is a lot of money to make sure that if we kena attack,even if we lose,the other side will suffer even more. -
Over here we are all referring to ‘if we emerge a war with a country that’s near to us, or within our region!. What type of knowledge or information u have to prove that they are better then our NSF( NS…. Those serve 2 or 2 ½ yr soldiers) remember this, rite now im not even mention abt our ‘regulars soldiers’.Originally posted by Dyc3d@r9:Hey chillout, don be so damn farking critical
cosz it is obvious that singapore is at a disadvantage.Ok maybe 100% is too much but i believe to a certain extend singapore is undefendable.BTW other countries' military are(mostly)made up of regulars.SGs are well not trained as much....
In military term, it does not mean that if u r regulars u r better! (of coz experience do count…. Im ex-regulars as well!!!!!) Our SAF do provide good and sufficient trainin for every individual to become a SOLDIER, maybe rite now the trainin may be defer from what I got (10+ yrs ago) however, the current SAF have change their focus on physically to ‘thinking soldiers’. If u tryin to said others countries providing better training then Singapore( I mean our neighboring country) then I think u r tokin cock down here! Do u know that our SAF have regularly send our troops for over sea training, this included ex and upgrading courses. Do u think our neighboring can afford to do so…. Yes, maybe they can, but this only to a certain extend…. Do u know that SAF in term of weapon, technologies etc are much more better then our neighboring countries???? Do you know that we have more active soldiers then them? Do u know………. Think theres too much information u need to find out b4 u can comment on’ Singapore is undefendable!!!!’
Imagine, during gulf war, u think our governments wanna see that to happen to Singapore as well??? Pls lahÂ…. Use ur head and thinkÂ…. DonÂ’t open ur mouth without thinkn!!!
Btw if u r referring to the size of Singapore that gave u the idea that we are to small to emerge in war, then I tellÂ…. U r totally wrong!!! Go n get some information on Israeli !!!! and, for what I know, if there is a war, Singapore will definitely not goin to fight ON OUR LAND!!! if this gonna happenÂ…. By then we are all dead duck liao!!!! ThatÂ’s why we are so emphasis on our air forcesÂ…. Go and read others ppl comments on this topic and u will get some good information on these area!!!
Last but not least, if u r saying our regulars r not so compatible with others countryÂ… then I got no choice but to fuck u againÂ… yes, I do agree that not all regulars are giving their best to the organization. However, there are still lots of them who has not only proved to the country that they are outstanding/best but to the world as well. we did have Best pilot from the Top gun, best diver in Navy seal courses etc!!!!!! Go and get more information on these area b4 u gave this comment!!!
anyway, after reading ur post... it shown nothing but u r still GREEN