NS is redundant
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if we do not have the courage to stand up for what we believe in... do we deserve anything?
is a person with the courage to stand up, go to jail if need be, in order not to betray himself a lesser man than those who fear and "do their duty" not because they wanted to, but because they were forced to?
in a society like this, where the social structure created by the lea-duhs is so rigid, where do people who do not fit in go?
some break and conform, betraying their very being... becoming less than nothing...
some have the courage to stick to their own principles... and sadly, those who do not think, were programmed to think in certain ways, start bashing those who are different because of bigotry...
what they do not know, they do not understand
what they do not understand, they fear
what they fear, they hate...
here is someone with a different point of view, and immediately, hatred drips..
alas -
yea..n after tat all the countries will answer UN "screw u"..den UN will answer him back "screw u 2"..Originally posted by duotiga83:u wan prevent war n damocracy ah....send letter to UN, ask all countries to disarm.......
...possible? u try.....
tats how he got screwed
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imbecile... know nothing... yet yaking away.. *yawn* back to work..
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already singapore is doomed... albeit slowly... ask any senior business person who has his finger on the pulse of singapore
if you call him irresponsible for thinking only about himself, he learnt it from the highest...
but he hasn't... he has asked pertinent questions no one has answered.. all you people have done is obfuscate, confuse and attack the person who questioned...
i have a question, more direct..
what has been done lately for the people?
the current situation shows the true colours of our lea-duhs...Originally posted by leexiancikevin:wat about ur responsibilities? all u think is about urself.. singapore is DOOM! -
yea..u can call tat bigot or wat in anyway...how do u noe we dun have our own belief? by our post? did we bash him? no i dun c any..im posting my own view too rite?Originally posted by the Bear:if we do not have the courage to stand up for what we believe in... do we deserve anything?
is a person with the courage to stand up, go to jail if need be, in order not to betray himself a lesser man than those who fear and "do their duty" not because they wanted to, but because they were forced to?
in a society like this, where the social structure created by the lea-duhs is so rigid, where do people who do not fit in go?
some break and conform, betraying their very being... becoming less than nothing...
some have the courage to stick to their own principles... and sadly, those who do not think, were programmed to think in certain ways, start bashing those who are different because of bigotry...
what they do not know, they do not understand
what they do not understand, they fear
what they fear, they hate...
here is someone with a different point of view, and immediately, hatred drips..
alas
i dun fear him...wat i fear is tat kids nowadays dun understand wat NS is all abt...i believe in NS it make me a better man..n i am able to protect tis land n my family...i dun hate him..im glad he have his own view..gd for him
i dun serve becos of fear..i serve becos it is necessary
i serve becos it ensure freedom for others...i suffer while others can reap frm my pain...n ensure life goes on
so can u help him answer wat is the solution to prevent war? other den NS..is there any answer? -
you do not serve out of fear... but how many do?
i believe NS made me a better man... but i've seen NS make monsters out of some...
what is right for you may not be right for other people...
what is right for you and works for you, may destroy others...
what is right for me, may destroy you...
if it is right for you, will you, if you are a leader, make it compulsary for everyone if it would destroy most? would you refuse to see it?
as for war, it is what comes about from people who do not question... it gives the lea-duhs power... a thinking army is never a good one as if the command to commit atrocity comes through, they will never...
the command to go against their very being comes through, would they? the thinking army will not...
the thinking man now is asked to go against his very being.. where NS is everything he is not... and takes a stand... has the courage to go to jail for his beliefs...
those are DANGEROUS to the lea-duhs who would herd their followers like sheep...
if his army did not fear saddam, and had freedom to think and the courage to do, would they have lobbed mustard gas into a sleeping village of Kurds?Originally posted by NathanG5:yea..u can call tat bigot or wat in anyway...how do u noe we dun have our own belief? by our post? did we bash him? no i dun c any..im posting my own view too rite?
i dun fear him...wat i fear is tat kids nowadays dun understand wat NS is all abt...i believe in NS it make me a better man..n i am able to protect tis land n my family...i dun hate him..im glad he have his own view..gd for him
i dun serve becos of fear..i serve becos it is necessary
i serve becos it ensure freedom for others...i suffer while others can reap frm my pain...n ensure life goes on
so can u help him answer wat is the solution to prevent war? other den NS..is there any answer? -
dude i agree wif most of the thing u say..but i think ur side tracking to other view...Originally posted by the Bear:you do not serve out of fear... but how many do?
i believe NS made me a better man... but i've seen NS make monsters out of some...
what is right for you may not be right for other people...
what is right for you and works for you, may destroy others...
what is right for me, may destroy you...
if it is right for you, will you, if you are a leader, make it compulsary for everyone if it would destroy most? would you refuse to see it?
as for war, it is what comes about from people who do not question... it gives the lea-duhs power... a thinking army is never a good one as if the command to commit atrocity comes through, they will never...
the command to go against their very being comes through, would they? the thinking army will not...
the thinking man now is asked to go against his very being.. where NS is everything he is not... and takes a stand... has the courage to go to jail for his beliefs...
those are DANGEROUS to the lea-duhs who would herd their followers like sheep...
if his army did not fear saddam, and had freedom to think and the courage to do, would they have lobbed mustard gas into a sleeping village of Kurds?
the question was..is NS redundant? is there other solution for it?
n yes abt Saddam army killing the kurds...wat if they do it willingly? they may have take pride in wat they have done..
the lea-duhs of tis country have done nothing for tis present problem...n im not sure wat we can do abt it?
just have to wait till the next election den.. -
unfortunately, if we keep on thinking that NS is and will be the only answer, like armies is and are the only answer, it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy....
in a world if everyone is educated and given to personal responsibility, and that they exercise that, and are not apathetic to what goes on around them, who their leaders are and what their leaders do, would there really be a need?
think on this for one moment... every damned armed force in the world is there on a pretext of defense...
if everybody is defending who is actually attacking?Originally posted by NathanG5:dude i agree wif most of the thing u say..but i think ur side tracking to other view...
the question was..is NS redundant? is there other solution for it?
n yes abt Saddam army killing the kurds...wat if they do it willingly? they may have take pride in wat they have done..
the lea-duhs of tis country have done nothing for tis present problem...n im not sure wat we can do abt it?
just have to wait till the next election den.. -
but how do we noe who r not attacking?Originally posted by the Bear:unfortunately, if we keep on thinking that NS is and will be the only answer, like armies is and are the only answer, it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy....
in a world if everyone is educated and given to personal responsibility, and that they exercise that, and are not apathetic to what goes on around them, who their leaders are and what their leaders do, would there really be a need?
think on this for one moment... every damned armed force in the world is there on a pretext of defense...
if everybody is defending who is actually attacking?
we cant possibly assume nobody will attack us...anything is possible..for SAF i think we r goin on the pretext of "wat if" -
what has HE done for the country?Originally posted by the Bear:already singapore is doomed... albeit slowly... ask any senior business person who has his finger on the pulse of singapore
if you call him irresponsible for thinking only about himself, he learnt it from the highest...
but he hasn't... he has asked pertinent questions no one has answered.. all you people have done is obfuscate, confuse and attack the person who questioned...
i have a question, more direct..
what has been done lately for the people?
the current situation shows the true colours of our lea-duhs...
where will HE be right now is there are no LOYAL soldiers protecting the borders, for him to wallow in self pity and selfishness?
Serving the country through NS is not the same as fawning on the govt. National Service is a service to the nation, not the govt.
The current situation also shows the true colours of the selfish citizens. -
NS is not the only answer, it is just part of the answer. Can you see that govts are trying to build diplomatic ties, educate people on tolerance etc etc.Originally posted by the Bear:unfortunately, if we keep on thinking that NS is and will be the only answer, like armies is and are the only answer, it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy....
in a world if everyone is educated and given to personal responsibility, and that they exercise that, and are not apathetic to what goes on around them, who their leaders are and what their leaders do, would there really be a need?
think on this for one moment... every damned armed force in the world is there on a pretext of defense...
if everybody is defending who is actually attacking?
In an ideal world, of course, we don't need armies. But please wake up to the reality. Anyway, we still have the damned terrorists around. -
the dude is just a deluded wanker lah... wanna act philosophical and cheem just for the sake of it...
look: a man has only ONE freedom. the freedom to choose how u wanna live your life.
in Sg, some factors are held fixed... like NS. so it boils down to what u wanna make of it.
if u wanna be a loser and bitch about it, what can i say?
if u wanna make the best of it since u're stuck there anyway, then get off your arse and make it happen.
2 years isn't short... but it isn't long either. if u can't handle it, how the hell are u gonna live till 80 since real ife may be many times tougher than NS and u still may end up doing what u don't wanna do.
we have dreams. we try our damned best to make it happen. but if it doesn't work out, we, as survivors of the specie, have to take whatever limited options we're left with to survive so that we can have another go at life.
u wanna moan and groan like a woman over some minor obstacle in life, u don't deserve to live... millions of years of evolution was wasted on u.
the world is not perfect. we live with whatever imperfections there may be. and we are always working to attain our goals in life. it may be here in Sg, some may seek better opportunities abroad. doesn't matter. bottom line is, we survive to make life better for ourselves if not, for our country.
so tell me philosopher... what has your useless contemplation and senseless complaints gotten u so far? -
for law abiding ppl following the law n being a good citizen is never a challenge... the biggest challenge in all ur life is to follow the law, abiding it carefully in ur life thus claiming to be a good citizen is URS!Originally posted by urlaopei:the pro is u all like to do ns but not me....
the law say u must do else u go jail...
to me the simplest wish in my life is to do something i love but not something i hates
MAYBE the biggest challenge in all ur life is to follow the law, abiding it carefully in ur life thus claiming to be a good citizen...
is this what u gonna live ur life for or simply live so cause u have no choice...
so go ns to be a better person?
i dun know...
the way this society shaped its future generations mean u all say going ns to do ur bit means u are protecting ur nation...
really if u have ur choice to choose ns or not....
u will reply me yes i will...
so u dun understand actually it is not u who shaped urself but this society... -
problem is tat not everyone thinks like u... if everybody thinks like u so peace loving etc etc no war liao then of cos no need army at all... but history is a different storyOriginally posted by urlaopei:there are many questions which fools can ask that wise men cannot answer...
do occupying earth, the natural habitant of living beings means we need to betray our ownself...
does this means this very land that mother earth gives to us without asking for any return becomes a land for lease...
give what u have to give here??
else..... -
Who i am is forged by the society around me, i treat NS merely as a means of returning that favour. A social obligation.
I don't treat NS as some compulsory law, i treat it as a social club when i get to learn some discipline and perhaps gain some life long friends. True friends are the one that has gone through thick and thin with you and know you for who you really are, not the front you chose to put on most of the time.many of life's circumstances are created by three basic choices...
Be a hero? I don't think any one of us who speaks here have any interest in being a hero. But how do you know if we have no choice if you do not bother to try out and see?
the disciplines you choose to keep...
the people you choose to be with...
and, the laws you choose to obey...
u means we have no choice but ns and be a herothis country should not be built by men who relied on one way to take care of it...
Is not building this country considering one of the ways you mentioned then? Are not men who believed in themselves and dared to shape their own lives believers that their way is correct? Thus, do they not rely on one way to take care of it? Then, what differences are there?
It should built by men who belived on themselves, who dared to shape their own lives....
who had enough courage to blaze new trails....
enough confidence themselves to take the necessary risks...
and i believe ns should not be the only way
A step is only taken when a foot is raised and put somewhere other than its original position. Otherwise, one would just stand there and go no place at all.
NS isn't the only way yes, but it would for sure open your eyes to more things and give you the experience, discipline and knowledge neccessary for you to pursue the way you want. -
I see a Chamberlain in the making......goodbye Singapore, if everyone thinks this way.Originally posted by the Bear:you do not serve out of fear... but how many do?
i believe NS made me a better man... but i've seen NS make monsters out of some...
what is right for you may not be right for other people...
what is right for you and works for you, may destroy others...
what is right for me, may destroy you...
if it is right for you, will you, if you are a leader, make it compulsary for everyone if it would destroy most? would you refuse to see it?
as for war, it is what comes about from people who do not question... it gives the lea-duhs power... a thinking army is never a good one as if the command to commit atrocity comes through, they will never...
the command to go against their very being comes through, would they? the thinking army will not...
the thinking man now is asked to go against his very being.. where NS is everything he is not... and takes a stand... has the courage to go to jail for his beliefs...
those are DANGEROUS to the lea-duhs who would herd their followers like sheep...
if his army did not fear saddam, and had freedom to think and the courage to do, would they have lobbed mustard gas into a sleeping village of Kurds? -
u tink 7-eleven...k get nulcear so ez meh
ns waste of time...but good la
if sg no pple def...other pple will makan us
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*clap *clapOriginally posted by Stevenson101:Who i am is forged by the society around me, i treat NS merely as a means of returning that favour. A social obligation.
I don't treat NS as some compulsory law, i treat it as a social club when i get to learn some discipline and perhaps gain some life long friends. True friends are the one that has gone through thick and thin with you and know you for who you really are, not the front you chose to put on most of the time.
oh yah, and I also tot that urlaopei pro belonged to the jehovah's witnesses.. .
anyway, getting back to the orginal point about just using a nuke. . . firstly, if u get a nuke, (dun ask how), ur neighbouring countires will want one too, cos the only way of defending against a nuke is to use another nuke: MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction)
I haven't serve NS yet (3 more years before i get there), but currently, I just view it as something that i have to go through eventually.
Perhaps most here did not put as much thought as 'urlaopei' about whether or not to serve NS, but were thinking more along the lines of surviving NS . . .
and yes urlaopei, we live in the real world. and in the real world, your neighbour does not disarm just cos u also disarm. and u dun disarm just cos ur neighbour disarm. military history runs parallel to human history, and people have been fighting since time immemorial, nothing's gonna change that, int'l organisations have failed, treaties have failed, threats of repurcussions from fellow allies have failed, threat of civilian suffering has failed, threat of weakened economy has failed, so basically, human are gonna be fighting forevermore. . .
now, back to singapore, true, u may disagree with govt policies and their actions, bu tthen again we ask ourselves, are we defending Singapore or the govt.. . perhaps because the pap has been in power too long that we now associate the pap with the govt and the govt with singapore. and thus to defend one, we defend all three. . . i dun think so. . .
i believe that in NS, u train to defend singapore, not the govt.
Also, hehheh, a point for those who say their fighting for family and friends. . . an american study sometime ago showed that when a soldier is there rolling in the mud with bullets flying overhead, nobody gives a damn about 'king and country' and the rest of the people, the only people u gonna ever think about is the other soldier beside u and rolling around in the mud with u and who has bullets flying over HIS head as well. . .
my two cents -
the pro is u all like to do ns but not me....
don't be an idiot... we don't like it. but it is a commitment we're man enough to face anyway. some of us come out of it stronger and better person. but thats not what we do it for.
its a commitment.the law say u must do else u go jail...
not really... declare yourself to be J.W and u'll be tending a beautiful vegetable garden 7 days a week for 3 yrs. you'll also be free of ALL ns liabilities after that. they mark your i.c though...
small price to pay for eternal salvation in heaven. rest of us have to endure eternal damnation in hell after we die i suppose 
to me the simplest wish in my life is to do something i love but not something i hates
selfish scum... since when is it all about you? are we to let u go berzerk and rape pillage and plunder if thats what u so love?MAYBE the biggest challenge in all ur life is to follow the law, abiding it carefully in ur life thus claiming to be a good citizen...
challenge? thats no challenge. thats life itself. where on earth can u lead the life of an anarchist and get away with it?is this what u gonna live ur life for or simply live so cause u have no choice...
i told u... u have a choice. its nobody's fault but yours that u're too chicken to exercise it.so go ns to be a better person?
neither do i... but i went through it anyway and made it meaningful.
i dun know...the way this society shaped its future generations mean u all say going ns to do ur bit means u are protecting ur nation...
its not social conditioning. its a FACT. look around u... we're not everybody's favourite country u know... and USA is only a friend when its interests happens to coincide.
u'll be stupid to think that they'll fight on our behalf. we're not iraq. no oil to offer them, no WMD, no terrorists hiding here assembling a dirty bomb.really if u have ur choice to choose ns or not....
given a choice, OF COURSE I'LL RATHER NOT DO IT! and there is a choice. i chose to be a soldier instead of a gardener. i'm none the worse for it...
u will reply me yes i will...so u dun understand actually it is not u who shaped urself but this society...
society doesn't shape or mould. it offers paths. u choose them. there are limited paths here to choose from, i agree. but since u are forced to choose, pick one, live with it, and stop complaining.
faggot. -
ok i'm confused about what he is trying to bring up here though......i just see him saying all kinds of sayings and people flaming him left and right.........bur liaozzz
Anyway about nukes.......well even if you used it we'd be screwed......let's take a look at why.
Say we nuke KL yes? ok KL is gone now.....in a big dust of radio active smoke...... which from Nov-March will blow towards Singapore and Indonasia.In Apr-Oct it's gonna blow towards Thailand,Cambodia,Vietnam maybe even Singapore and China....will those country like that? i highly doubt so.....heck i even doubt you'd live through it.
NS redundant??No i do not think so.NS is about defending this country and what it stands for more then it is about building an army.I mean let's take a look.....you said this country was built on democracy, equality and individual freedom... well this not really true since we are a socialist-democracy.But anyway let's take it that what you said is true ok?Well then since this country now has democracy, equality and individual freedom while others do not.....the others aint happy about that and they believe it is the wrong way to live and thus want to make you live they're way of life style.What you gonna do about it?Are you going to give it all up or fight to defend your way of life and your democracy, equality and individual freedom??
Your choice...you decideWe are the hero of our own story...
Well 3 choices??But what if my 3 choices differ from your's/??
i think we may choose to be hero or villian...
many of life's circumstances are created by three basic choices...
the disciplines you choose to keep...
the people you choose to be with...
and, the laws you choose to obey...
u means we have no choice but ns and be a hero?
If you believe in equality and individual freedom while i believe in the strong should get what they want or maybe i believe that the only rule to follow is that of anarchy??This wont be a problem if we were on different islands and would never meet unforunately that is not it now is it?Our cultures will crash and it'd most prob end up me killing you or you killing me.By the way since you said the laws i choose to obey should be the choice does it mean i can choose not to pay taxes while i still want cheap housing,cheap health care..etc etc??I hardly think so.......Nothing in life comes free.......There is a price even for democracy, equality and individual freedom.
My 2cents worth -
If u had half the brain ur so-called contemplative mind is capable of producing...You would realise the simple fact that you were palced on this world to experience as much of life as u can...
I may not like what u say but I will defend your right to say it..This is a much higher-order thought process than ur pretentious and specious rants..
In fact, I serve NS just so people like u can type your sloven writings freely..Be grateful dude..Cuz not many have the PRIVILEGE to do so..
NS i do not do willingly, so there..But i can comprehend that two years of servitude will not break my future path..after all, I can't change my place of birth.If I could, the world would be a radically different place and we wouldn't even be debating this.. -
here's the thing.. everyone thinks the extreme...
a person who will not kill for his country is deemed a coward.. but what if he was willing to die for it?
was the Mahatma a coward?
there is a time to fight... there is a time to die...
if we do not protect the rights of EVERY citizen, then we do not protect the rights of anyone at all...
not the conventional is it?
sometimes, the needs of one will outweigh the needs of the many...
no democracy should vote away the rights of the minority... if it does, it's just disguised fascismOriginally posted by CenturionMBT:I see a Chamberlain in the making......goodbye Singapore, if everyone thinks this way. -
pk him lehOriginally posted by pker:u tink 7-eleven...k get nulcear so ez meh
ns waste of time...but good la
if sg no pple def...other pple will makan us -
So you are saying we should vote against national service?Originally posted by the Bear:here's the thing.. everyone thinks the extreme...
a person who will not kill for his country is deemed a coward.. but what if he was willing to die for it?
was the Mahatma a coward?
there is a time to fight... there is a time to die...
if we do not protect the rights of EVERY citizen, then we do not protect the rights of anyone at all...
not the conventional is it?
sometimes, the needs of one will outweigh the needs of the many...
no democracy should vote away the rights of the minority... if it does, it's just disguised fascism -
NS redundant??? R U KIDDING????HUZ goin' to defend the country???the so called pro-ns redundanist????or this is juz to go against the government????a country with no defence force........u better think back wat happen in 1942