NS is redundant
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i wonder why we are still talking abt this age old topic... ns will never satisfy everyone although there are logical and compelling reasons for it. we all have no one else to blame other than the person who created us - if we didnt start to fight one another long long long ago when humans started to live on this planet, we prob wont need an army in every country now. hell, mabbe we will all be living in one big country called earth den many countries. u can, of course, dismantle all your defence mechanisms. but be prepared for the consequences. unless u trust your fellow men so much.
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Nobody said that a person who would not kill for his country is a coward, but one who is not prepared to defend it definitely is one.Originally posted by the Bear:here's the thing.. everyone thinks the extreme...
a person who will not kill for his country is deemed a coward.. but what if he was willing to die for it?
was the Mahatma a coward?
there is a time to fight... there is a time to die...
if we do not protect the rights of EVERY citizen, then we do not protect the rights of anyone at all...
not the conventional is it?
sometimes, the needs of one will outweigh the needs of the many...
no democracy should vote away the rights of the minority... if it does, it's just disguised fascism
So far, "urlaopei" has not given me any inkling that HE will die for his country being all so wrapped up about himself and his ideal world.
It's an insult to draw a comparison using Ghandhi. Ghandhi is a great man fighting worthy causes - Indian rights, inequality etc. I'm sure he does not whine about life's circumstances or care about selfish gains.
Not being 100% democracy does not mean fascism. That's extreme thinking too. -
the country can be served by many ways...
is blind obedience the only way you know?
we are challenged each day to "think outside the box"... have you? have the lea-duhs?
frankly, if you want the big picture about militaries, they are a parasite on humanity... if all were abolished in one fell swoop, there would be no need for anymore.. however, that is not the topic...
he questioned NS... he questioned our very existence... questions i myself have asked... what keeps me in singapore is this very very thin strand of emotion.. this is where i was born and grew up...
we ask little of our country and boy! are we given that... or less..
but we are asked so much.. so very much...
sometimes, i even ask if it is worth it all... but i stay, and i do my reservist.. and everytime i go back, every single citizen-soldier is moaning about being in green... but we do so..
is it so very difficult to accept that out of 4 million people in singapore, there may be one who thinks differently? if he is to be ostracised for thinking differently, are we nothing but bigots?
and if we are all bigots, is this country worth fighting for at all?
i would hope to think that we are not bigots.. that we can accept the fact that members of our citizenry will think differently... and have independent thoughts that are different from the norm.. and i hope that he will still be accepted as a fellow citizen...
the people who slam him with personal attacks just reinforces his stand.... however, if he was to be accepted as a fellow citizen, do you think his tune would change? he would have a stake in somewhere he belongs...
that, in itself, is the strength which will ultimately bind a country... that sense of belonging...
not what you knee-jerk, chest thumping, "nationalist" pseudo-fascist are doing... this reeks of pack-mentality
your constant squeezing only serves to alienate people... people with different ideas, different ideals... people who are still ultimately citizens of YOUR COUNTRY.Originally posted by piopoz:Nobody said that a person who would not kill for his country is a coward, but one who is not prepared to defend it definitely is one.
So far, "urlaopei" has not given me any inkling that HE will die for his country being all so wrapped up about himself and his ideal world.
It's an insult to draw a comparison using Ghandhi. Ghandhi is a great man fighting worthy causes - Indian rights, inequality etc. I'm sure he does not whine about life's circumstances or care about selfish gains. If there's NS in India, I'm sure he would not shrink from it.
Not being 100% democracy does not mean fascism. That's extreme thinking too. -
cut the crap...take it like a manOriginally posted by urlaopei:y NS when we wun fight any war...
just get nuclear then if malaysia threatened...
then that's it....
is there any way to stop this??
i guess no one has the answer... -
Okay, just a question. Can we abolish NS right now?Originally posted by the Bear:the country can be served by many ways...
is blind obedience the only way you know?
we are challenged each day to "think outside the box"... have you? have the lea-duhs?
frankly, if you want the big picture about militaries, they are a parasite on humanity... if all were abolished in one fell swoop, there would be no need for anymore.. however, that is not the topic...
he questioned NS... he questioned our very existence... questions i myself have asked... what keeps me in singapore is this very very thin strand of emotion.. this is where i was born and grew up...
we ask little of our country and boy! are we given that... or less..
but we are asked so much.. so very much...
sometimes, i even ask if it is worth it all... but i stay, and i do my reservist.. and everytime i go back, every single citizen-soldier is moaning about being in green... but we do so..
is it so very difficult to accept that out of 4 million people in singapore, there may be one who thinks differently? if he is to be ostracised for thinking differently, are we nothing but bigots?
and if we are all bigots, is this country worth fighting for at all?
i would hope to think that we are not bigots.. that we can accept the fact that members of our citizenry will think differently... and have independent thoughts that are different from the norm.. and i hope that he will still be accepted as a fellow citizen...
the people who slam him with personal attacks just reinforces his stand.... however, if he was to be accepted as a fellow citizen, do you think his tune would change? he would have a stake in somewhere he belongs...
that, in itself, is the strength which will ultimately bind a country... that sense of belonging...
not what you knee-jerk, chest thumping, "nationalist" pseudo-fascist are doing... this reeks of pack-mentality
your constant squeezing only serves to alienate people... people with different ideas, different ideals... people who are still ultimately citizens of YOUR COUNTRY.
It's alright to think differently, but it's another thing to think irresponsibly and selfishly. Thinking differenly also does not entail mocking the majority, who chose to go the normal course and stay loyal to their country, labelling them slaves to the govt. We can think and reason, and we disagree with the govt at times. And once again, please distinguish between the nation and the govt. -
not really... declare yourself to be J.W and u'll be tending a beautiful vegetable garden 7 days a week for 3 yrs. you'll also be free of ALL ns liabilities after that. they mark your i.c though...
I heard that even if you declare yourself as J.W after serving the jail term you are still liable for N.S
small price to pay for eternal salvation in heaven. rest of us have to endure eternal damnation in hell after we die i suppose
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you heard wrong.Originally posted by jasmine17:I heard that even if you declare yourself as J.W after serving the jail term you are still liable for N.S
any guy that declares a J.W will be put in DB (military jail) for the entire period of his NS life. a record will be made. going to DB is the same as going to jail. you'll still be branded a convict. -
oh okOriginally posted by nismoS132:you heard wrong.
any guy that declares a J.W will be put in DB (military jail) for the entire period of his NS life. a record will be made. going to DB is the same as going to jail. you'll still be branded a convict. -
so i guess u mean pple wif those idea sayin tat NS is redandunt..it shld be done away...is rite?Originally posted by the Bear:the country can be served by many ways...
is blind obedience the only way you know?
we are challenged each day to "think outside the box"... have you? have the lea-duhs?
frankly, if you want the big picture about militaries, they are a parasite on humanity... if all were abolished in one fell swoop, there would be no need for anymore.. however, that is not the topic...
he questioned NS... he questioned our very existence... questions i myself have asked... what keeps me in singapore is this very very thin strand of emotion.. this is where i was born and grew up...
we ask little of our country and boy! are we given that... or less..
but we are asked so much.. so very much...
sometimes, i even ask if it is worth it all... but i stay, and i do my reservist.. and everytime i go back, every single citizen-soldier is moaning about being in green... but we do so..
is it so very difficult to accept that out of 4 million people in singapore, there may be one who thinks differently? if he is to be ostracised for thinking differently, are we nothing but bigots?
and if we are all bigots, is this country worth fighting for at all?
i would hope to think that we are not bigots.. that we can accept the fact that members of our citizenry will think differently... and have independent thoughts that are different from the norm.. and i hope that he will still be accepted as a fellow citizen...
the people who slam him with personal attacks just reinforces his stand.... however, if he was to be accepted as a fellow citizen, do you think his tune would change? he would have a stake in somewhere he belongs...
that, in itself, is the strength which will ultimately bind a country... that sense of belonging...
not what you knee-jerk, chest thumping, "nationalist" pseudo-fascist are doing... this reeks of pack-mentality
your constant squeezing only serves to alienate people... people with different ideas, different ideals... people who are still ultimately citizens of YOUR COUNTRY.
to me tat is not an idea..tats suicide mentality...yes i say again it is gd to have ur own view..but not the wrong one...im asking one more time..if u think NS is redundant n shld be done away..wat is?
once again we did not flame him..u feel tat we flame him..look at my post..im asking him a question...did i flame him?
n seriously...we might as well do away election cos we shld also listen to minority..cos they feel their view is rite too...tats perfect democracy..wat do u think?
i bet u will ask me...wat make me say tat his view is wrong..rite?
if he or u can answer to my question above which i repeat many time..i will take it as ur rite in ur own view...
so do u have a perfect solution to replace NS? -
u all serve cause u love it...Originally posted by NathanG5:so i guess u mean pple wif those idea sayin tat NS is redandunt..it shld be done away...is rite?
to me tat is not an idea..tats suicide mentality...yes i say again it is gd to have ur own view..but not the wrong one...im asking one more time..if u think NS is redundant n shld be done away..wat is?
once again we did not flame him..u feel tat we flame him..look at my post..im asking him a question...did i flame him?
n seriously...we might as well do away election cos we shld also listen to minority..cos they feel their view is rite too...tats perfect democracy..wat do u think?
i bet u will ask me...wat make me say tat his view is wrong..rite?
if he or u can answer to my question above which i repeat many time..i will take it as ur rite in ur own view...
so do u have a perfect solution to replace NS?
u may say no or yes....
responsiblity, loyalty, protecting loved ones ur reasons???
so u fulfil ur so call roled in society???
do u see into the future that if there is ns....
there is no war???
or are u going to tell me that no ns there is definitely war???
do we need to replaced it to solved something...
or issit already solving something....
i still feel like I gotta prove something....
there are a lot of people hoping I fail....
but I like that and i need to be hated...
reality is wrong and deams are for real... -
i'll say one thing:
the idiots who built and stockpiled enough megatonnage of nukes to blow up the earth, the moon, venus and mars thought they were acting responsibly...
in the end, they were just acting....
Mutual Assured Destruction was an accepted war doctrine then... not anymore...
it has been proven to be a farce.. when interviewed, the former soldiers who had The Key to The Button said they would NEVER launch even when attacked...
btw, changing of mindsets... the military nuts would know that changing mindsets was how they trained people to kill... they changed the bull's eye into a shape of a soldier because a majority of soldiers who were trained with a bull's eye could not bring themselves to shoot a fellow human being, even if it was their enemy...
we changed that mindset and desensitised everyone to violence... can we swing it back to a humanity which is gentler?
it is hard, but the alternative? a total loss of our humanity?
if it is, what does it matter anymore?
you guys rant "act responsibly"... well, DO IT!
NS may not be abolished now.. but keep that in mind... with attitudes like yours, it can never ever be.. because dreams are crushed.. dreams like a lasting and just peace... simply because it runs contrary to your myopic belief and your unthinking conditioned bigotry -
terrorist arnd now and u wan to stop ns??? if theres no ns u tink they r not gonna attack??? u got a better solution?Originally posted by urlaopei:.........
do u see into the future that if there is ns....
there is no war???
or are u going to tell me that no ns there is definitely war???
do we need to replaced it to solved something...
or issit already solving something....
i still feel like I gotta prove something....
there are a lot of people hoping I fail....
but I like that and i need to be hated...
reality is wrong and deams are for real... -
got...wait for 2nd coming of christ...which we don't know when is it.....Originally posted by BrUtUs:terrorist arnd now and u wan to stop ns??? if theres no ns u tink they r not gonna attack??? u got a better solution?
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haha....Originally posted by duotiga83:got...wait for 2nd coming of christ...which we don't know when is it..... 
thats one idea.... -
of course stockpiling weapons is senseless. but too bad there are still people who believe power comes from the barrel of the gun, and so this will never stop.Originally posted by the Bear:i'll say one thing:
the idiots who built and stockpiled enough megatonnage of nukes to blow up the earth, the moon, venus and mars thought they were acting responsibly...
in the end, they were just acting....
Mutual Assured Destruction was an accepted war doctrine then... not anymore...
it has been proven to be a farce.. when interviewed, the former soldiers who had The Key to The Button said they would NEVER launch even when attacked...
btw, changing of mindsets... the military nuts would know that changing mindsets was how they trained people to kill... they changed the bull's eye into a shape of a soldier because a majority of soldiers who were trained with a bull's eye could not bring themselves to shoot a fellow human being, even if it was their enemy...
we changed that mindset and desensitised everyone to violence... can we swing it back to a humanity which is gentler?
it is hard, but the alternative? a total loss of our humanity?
if it is, what does it matter anymore?
you guys rant "act responsibly"... well, DO IT!
NS may not be abolished now.. but keep that in mind... with attitudes like yours, it can never ever be.. because dreams are crushed.. dreams like a lasting and just peace... simply because it runs contrary to your myopic belief and your unthinking conditioned bigotry
MAD is sort of a prisoners' dilemma - u start or i start makes no difference. in the end all will suffer. it has worked so far in fact, as can be seen from the outrage and response when USA decided to develop the missile defence system that will shoot down all incoming missiles.
the entire world and its obsession with the military has nothing to blame except for humanity. back in the stone age, people were already fighting with stones and rocks. this will always happen sadly. -
Originally posted by urlaopei:u all serve cause u love it...
u may say no or yes....
responsiblity, loyalty, protecting loved ones ur reasons???
so u fulfil ur so call roled in society???
do u see into the future that if there is ns....
there is no war???
or are u going to tell me that no ns there is definitely war???
do we need to replaced it to solved something...
or issit already solving something....
i still feel like I gotta prove something....
there are a lot of people hoping I fail....
but I like that and i need to be hated... feel so tired.. thursday morning... reading this crap spoils my day.. u go dream ur own dream i go dream mine
reality is wrong and deams are for real... -
To Bear,
this isn't about not being open to ideas and being bigoted...
lets all agree to disagree on NS... we don't like it, but we do it. not only because we got no viable options, but because we're man enough to face it and life is ALL ABOUT facing adversities and conquering them.
if he had proposed another way of conquering adversity, i might have respected that... even quitting is a more viable alternative than his mindless rambling...Originally posted by urlaopei:
and what would u do? piss in your pants at the first sight of trouble? run??? to where?
u all serve cause u love it...
u may say no or yes....
responsiblity, loyalty, protecting loved ones ur reasons???
so u fulfil ur so call roled in society???
nobody can say for sure that NS = no war. but in such uncertain times, if war breaks out, would u rather be doing SOMETHING to keep yourself and your family safe or would u rather run and let the enemy burn your house, kill your family and defile your women?do u see into the future that if there is ns....
we can't predict the future any more than we can relive the past. the present is for living, not for mindless ruminating.
there is no war???or are u going to tell me that no ns there is definitely war???
pig ignorant wanker... where's the logic in that? life is about preparing for eventualities. there are no certainties. the readiness is all.do we need to replaced it to solved something...
its not broken. but it is still continuously being improved. u're just too busy complaining to see it.or issit already solving something....
at the very least, it gives people a chance to get together for an interesting experience for 2 years on gov't expense. it builds identity.i still feel like I gotta prove something....
what's there to prove? your one liners are just plain lame. we're rather hoping that u will start to make some sense, but u're just mindlessly eff-ing everything!there are a lot of people hoping I fail....
u don't need to be hated... u need to be shot. what are u? a rebel without a cause?
but I like that and i need to be hated...reality is wrong and deams are for real...
deluded wanker... wonder what the hell he's been smoking... -
was gona reply urlaopei...but just realize im too shock there such person exist...anyway CX oredi say wat i wan to say...ur either high on something or rebel without a cause...maybe siao..
if anyone agree of shooting him..i dun mind drawing blood.. -
bear
romantic ideals of a world of peace are just that, ideals.
or should the police force to be abolished as well, since we should all just be nice to each other and not commit crimes? -
aiyo... why some people always like to call others bigots when they themselves are also unable to see from another point or refused to.
Is it that difficult to accept reality?
Most people will of course wish for world peace - no war, no poverty, no discrimination etc etc. Think of the actions needed to achieve these - first you've got to persuade those around you to join you in your cause, then you got to persuade your leaders and your countrymen, then you got to get your neighbouring countries to jump in the bandwagon, then the US, North Korean, terrorists blah blah blah. Think you can do it or is it possible?
Be the change you want to see in the world, so Ghandhi said. But even Ghandhi can only do so much for his country.
Being supportive of NS is not being against peace. It's just making the best out of a bad situation, being prepared for the worst. You don't call for disarming before you are sure your enemies are now friends. Things got to be done a step at a time. God did not create the world overnight either.
As to who are the bigots, well, you decide. -
well..tot im askin u the question..how come now ur askin me back..so smart of u...Originally posted by urlaopei:u all serve cause u love it...
u may say no or yes....
responsiblity, loyalty, protecting loved ones ur reasons???
so u fulfil ur so call roled in society???
do u see into the future that if there is ns....
there is no war???
or are u going to tell me that no ns there is definitely war???
do we need to replaced it to solved something...
or issit already solving something....
i still feel like I gotta prove something....
there are a lot of people hoping I fail....
but I like that and i need to be hated...
reality is wrong and deams are for real...
answer me 1st..den i'ii answer urs..
dreams r for real? of cos its for real..when ur dreaming everything is real...u noe y u can dream?
its becos of us those who serve NS for 2.5 n 2 yrs...tat u r able to dream peacefully..it is us who chiong sua like siao tat ur able to post now...prove it to me tat NS is redundant..prove it so tat i can put down my gun!!
i dun hate u dude..i pity u..i reali pity u my fren..
wish u all the best in life... -
my god... think he is hallucinating.. heheOriginally posted by urlaopei:u all serve cause u love it...
u may say no or yes....
responsiblity, loyalty, protecting loved ones ur reasons???
so u fulfil ur so call roled in society???
do u see into the future that if there is ns....
there is no war???
or are u going to tell me that no ns there is definitely war???
do we need to replaced it to solved something...
or issit already solving something....
i still feel like I gotta prove something....
there are a lot of people hoping I fail....
but I like that and i need to be hated...
reality is wrong and deams are for real...
well.. i don't hate you lah... hate is a strong word... you don't hate someone you don't even know.
I guess I'm here more for the entertainment value. -
Rather have NS and a military and not need it then not have it and need it.Originally posted by urlaopei:u all serve cause u love it...
u may say no or yes....
responsiblity, loyalty, protecting loved ones ur reasons???
so u fulfil ur so call roled in society???
do u see into the future that if there is ns....
there is no war???
or are u going to tell me that no ns there is definitely war???
do we need to replaced it to solved something...
or issit already solving something....
i still feel like I gotta prove something....
there are a lot of people hoping I fail....
but I like that and i need to be hated...
reality is wrong and deams are for real...
Oh and honestly dude you have not really post much apart from alot alot of idealogy...nothing concrete......... -
the only way to achieve world peace is to wipe the human race off the planet.
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dun you guys think this reasoning of war and the need of national service is going in a circle that is hard to get out?
as long as there's a hunger for power in Man.. there'll be armies.. if there's armies, there's a need of defense.. it just goes round and round..
as for standing up for what u believe in.. that's a good thing.. but i think in the case of NS.. i dunno how you going to do it man..
a country's stability and prosperity depends so many factors.. defence is one right? too bad singapore's small population obliges us to have NS in place.. unless u hire mercenaries (which is not a perm and good solution).. so, if you indeed achieve something standing up for your beliefs.. i applaud you for your courage