The Yanky soldiers are weaker than our tough SAF
-
My apologies to “Fanatical_Knight” for replying to “stupidissmart”, and in so doing bring us away from the thread started; but since no one is adding any further contribution, might as well post a reply to "stupidissmart".
If we look back at the record of events, prior to the outbreak of this Second Iraq War that resulted in Saddam’s Regime being overthrown, certainly Saddam was beginning to talk to the UN Inspectors. At the same time, Saddam was playing games with the UN Inspectors, and like a “strip teaser” , his Representatives were slowly revealing a little more information each time when the pressure is notched up another level.
At the rate that the game was played, and the pace dictated by Saddam, by the time all the information needed by the UN Inspectors will be made fully and satisfactorily available, it may take another one to ten years of constant play.
Saddam, like a schoolÂ’s worse scoundrel, was thumbing his nose at the Class Monitor, with the full knowledge that the Class Monitor cannot touch him without the sanction of the Principal, whose hands are tied by the Ministry.
Like the incorrigible school boy, Saddam stretched the International Rules and tried to buy time by playing the Europeans against the US, and breaking up the unity of the European Community with his game of brinkmanship.
He knew that the World Opinion was divided in finding a way to deal with him, and he made the best use of the indecisiveness of the World Community.
Unfortunately, Saddam placed his bet with a weak hand in a poker game with big boys, who were out to make sure that he will not get any chance to tie up with Al Qaeda, and beat the big boys when they are sleeping.
After 9-11, in which the USA has been attacked for the first time by foreigners, can you expect the USA to sit still, when intelligence reported SaddamÂ’s WMD program and the beginning of his relationship with Al Qaeda, the actual SaddamÂ’s actions of stubborn refusal to give up information willingly, SaddamÂ’s game at brinkmanship, and the past records of SaddamÂ’s unpredictable actions that include the use of WMD against innocent Iraqis ?
With all these events on record, any responsible leader will have to take pre-emptive action, when the evidence is clear that Saddam is BUYING TIME for himself (and perhaps his WMD Program ? ) .
You are not the only one asking about the whereabouts of the WMD equipment and end products.
If I am Saddam Hussein, knowing that defeat will be sudden, I will prepare in advance the dispersal of the WMD, and use it with a vengeance to hit back at the USA at the time and place of my choosing.
Saddam has got his first plan accomplished, by successfully hiding the WMD, his second plan was to successfully hide himself – (much like Osama Bin Laden and the Head Taliban has accomplished) – third, instead of releasing the WMD against the invading US Army that will end up destroying the Iraqi population and assets, Saddam will bide his time and take his revenge at a place and time of his choosing.
Do not be too quick about the “Spiced Up Intelligence Report” from the British Side, or even from the US side. The Board of Enquiry has not ended, and from the last news reported, it was the BBC Reporter that seemed to have got the facts wrong and twisted the events to create a scandal concerning the possibility of the Intelligence Report being Spiced Up”. The Enquiry is still on-going, and the finding has not been concluded.
Concerning the North Korean problem, there are more consequences to be considered when handling North Korea.
Unlike Iraq, there are no hard evidence linking North Korea with any of the Middle Eastern groups involved in terrorism.
The North Koreans have certainly sold their missiles and missile technologies to some of the rouge states in the Middle East and Africa, but they have not sold any weapons or WMD end products to groups such as Hamas, Al Qaeda, or the Hissbola – so I am not sure where your information is coming from.
Unlike Iraq, North Korea has some Defense Treaty arrangement with China and Russia; and although times have changed, it is unlikely that China and Russia will come to the defense of North Korea if bad behavior becomes too embarrassing to be defended.
Still, with North Korea, the USA has to consider the sensitivity and fallout effect on a larger circle of countries – both politically and economically.
By attacking North Korea, the biggest casualty will be the South Koreans and the Japanese population, as the unpredictable and ruthless Kim Jong Il will resort to the use of Nuclear strikes. Mass destruction of human lives and infrastructures will be the end result in the entire Korean Peninsula, Japan, and parts of China (if it gets drawn into combat with the USA).
The economies of East Asia, South-east Asia, and the entire Pacific Region will be strategically and structurally affected.
The price of war in the Korean Peninsula will be much higher than the war in Iraq.
Unfortunately, the underground labyrinths are not fairy tales, if you recall several German Construction Companies coming up with the Building Plans of SaddamÂ’s Palaces, with vent shafts leading into deep bunkers.
Concerning your inability to tolerate my supposed statement that the “Iraqis deserved to suffer in an unstable and volatile situation, you may have not read carefully enough what I have stated.
If you will review my earlier post, I had stated that the Iraqis have as much responsibility to ensure that their own future will be secure and prosperous by helping the US led Coalition Force to weed out all of Saddam Hussein’s Power Base and Leadership, so that these “murderous rulers” will not return to haunt the Iraqis.
Unfortunately, if Saddam was Winston Churchill, the entire Iraqi nation would have risen up to resist the US led Coalition Force in Iraq – {so your comparison is wrong, and the fact that there is only sporadic pin-prick attacks against the US Forces that resulted in small number of death and casualties} - shows that the general population are accepting the reality of the situation and co-operating with the US led Coalition Force. It is the DIEHARD Saddam Loyalist and foreign elements fighting the US led forces.
It will be foolish for the average Iraqi Citizen not to make use of the US led Coalition Force to ensure that Saddam and his Murderous Crowd of Baathist Party Leaders are completely destroyed or brought to trial by the Iraqi people.
Can the average Iraqi people overthrow Saddam Hussein and his well armed Fedayeen without US help ?
If average Iraqi People love Saddam Hussein, why were they so relieved at the arrival of the US led Coalition Forces into the various major cities of Iraq ?
There were crowds rejoicing at the toppling of Saddam HusseinÂ’s statues, there were vulgar acts of insults to Saddam HusseinÂ’s photo images.
Do you seriously believe that Iraq has only ONE Percent of their population being ‘highly educated’ ?
Like most developed countries in the Middle East, their population will have at least ten percent being educated up to tertiary levels, and at least forty percent with high and middle school education, and another forty percent having at least primary education.
If you were to look into the websites of Iraqis who have fled from the brutal treatment of Saddam Hussein, you may perhaps withdraw your statements concerning the Iraqis enjoying life under Saddam Hussein.
For your information, those who stayed behind have to put on a false front “to love” Saddam Hussein and his Sons, or they will be killed.
Can you accept the Singapore Football team losing the Tiger Cup, and on coming back to Singapore, the entire team is beaten at the base of their bare feet, and then dragged over broken glasses ?
This was how Saddam Hussein’s eldest son – Uday Hussein – treated his Olympic Football Team, when they lost the football match that will allow Iraq a place in the top ten group.
It was a reign of terror that kept the people acting according to script prepared by SaddamÂ’s famous Minister of Information.
Where were you when the Minister of Information was putting on a brave face, to declare that the US led Coalition Force was miles away from Baghdad, even when the M-1 Abrams Tanks were rolling into the City ?
I am not sure if it is "smart to be stupid" – all the time, at least. -
Maybe the titles does drift from the original posted, but I it is more important to consider the content of the argument in it rather than where it spawns from. Does it make a big difference if I post it at as a new thread ?
I got to ask, how does the Saddam play games with the UN inspectors ? Does allowing them to break into some palace for checking playing games ? The UN inspectors have the power to check wherever sites at watever time they need, inclusive of the sites where US intelligence suspected sites. How do u play "games" with rules being set by US and UN ? Wat aspect of the checks conducted by UN considered a game to u ? The only reason why u say it is a game probably because it is coined by US for saying tat. How do u end tis "game" then ? U got to admit u r already biased tat they have weopons prior to checks already. U just felt tat the game can only end in one way, tat is WOMD r found and not the possibility tat there really has no weopons there. Why do u keep insisting tat they have weopons there ? The only game u can say they r playing is tat they r demanding for more talks and negotiation. I don't know tat being diplomatic is a game. And the best player is certainly North Korea.
American like a big bully in school was hit by a sudden water bomb by someone. He began to be angry and try to gather support from friends to hit back tat person. He made it such a point att those who support him is considered a friend while the other r enemies. No sitting on the fence. Of course being such a big bully he got his way, and the idiot who threw water bombs got beaten so badly tat he need to quit school. Yet big bully isn't satisfied and decided to hit his closest friend. He accused him of hiding tons of water bombs and assist in throwing bombs at him. Of course being a big bully, he do not need to produce any evidence, his words r orders. The best friend try to prove to others tat he is innocent, but he is not given a chance and got whacked by him too, despite objections by other neutral members. Does tis story sounds familiar ?
After 9-11, Afghan is hit badly. Al Qaeda is a shadow of its former strength. But why attack Iraq even without proper proof and documentation ? I sympatise those who r dead, but please do not made revenge blindly. If u fight for a good cause, I have nothing to say. If u hit just to get a feeling of getting back, then gone too far. U took your revenge, they too will want to take their revenge back. IS there any end to tis ? Like Isreal and Palestinians. U think it will end if both sides keep "revenging" on each other ?
U said tat Saddam has no support from his people, then how does he hide all the weopons of mass destruction and not even a clue to wheer they r now ? The scale of the job is large ! Even capturing scientist and people of power produce no evidence. Do u really think hiding such WMD is easy like ABC. And do u think tat everyone will be so loyal especially to a fallen regime ? Wake up !! Iraq is unlike Bermuda Triangle. Don't keep insisting tat they have the weopons just by blind faith. Prove by hard evidence not by inferences and drawing own conclusion.
The enquiries r there, and they should placed a doubt on the reliability of the report. Iraq technology is relatively low compared to other countries and they have been isolated for so many years. Where they get such technology to make WMD from ? Is it from Al Qaeda who is more backward ? It is already obvious that the report does sounds suspicious. And the report is really proven wrong since no such weopons r found.
U mean since they r not linked to Middle East, then they should be free of accusation, even sending the weopons to rogues states in Africa is okay. So blatantly put, u suggests they hit Iraq just for revenge, just because it is a muslim state, just because it is in middle east isn't it. So Africa can kill all the people they want as long as they r not Americans right. And North Korea probably sell weopons to highest bidders, why not to muslim extremist next time, or maybe they already have done it.
U say they won't attack Korea because they have nuclear weopons and can be used at China and Japan, why r they not afraid Iraq will attack British within 45 minutes with their WMD when AMerican attack them ? Tat will certainly creates lot of havoc, more than Asia isn't it ? I guess having REAL weopons of mass destruction really help here.
The price of war in the Korean Peninsula will be certainly be much higher than the war in Iraq. Iraq has oil while Korea has starving people.
saying tis is same as telling all singaporean is at fault if the bomb at Yishun MRT really took place. It just need 30 people out of the whole population of 3 millions to creates havoc. How many actually suspect they r so extreme ? U cannot blame ALL iraqis just because there r a few black sheeps around. And how further do u want those silent majority to act ?
I refer Saddams Churchill because u say Saddam cannot ask its people to fight for their countries. I want to say all commanders do tat since beginning of warfare.
U think outside interferences will help solve problems in Iraq itself ? A chinese saying goes tat A Fair judge cannot settle domestic disputes. Which countries, after being hit by a war froma third party aiming to 'liberise' them got a good result in return ? US and Iraq cultures r totally different. How does US help them ? They help, and look at the mess now. The blame should not be to Iraqis but by how naive and idealistic US leaders became.
Saddam may be cruel, but how does US fare in such a country. Some countries need to be ruled by iron hand. In such desperate situation, do u really blame the information minister to lie to boost their morales ? A doctor telling his patient tat he is gonna be alright even though he is going to die should be prosecuted too then. I don't see any significant of it to tis argument.
"A"merican "to be". Why lose your logic and emotion in this war ? -
Just to add more.
American critised Saddam on how to rule the country. The main problem lies on his eldest son. He rapes girls and he punish people who lose in games. Wat evil deed does Saddam and his second son do then ? Well, then now America is the ruler there, how good a government is he ? No water, power, police and jobs. And wat does he do ? He blames it n the fault on Iraqis people. First he criticised Saddam for being a bad ruler and when he has a chance to rule, he is worse. And he is like a spoilt brat blame on the people and etc etc... Aren't the people of Iraq the same for the 2 rulers ? Why do they fared differently ? Saddam too have its own rebels to handle. Why does he manage to keep it under control ?
And the government set up by American won't last too. If some person manage to stage a rebellion against Saddam and seize control, he will last long since he has accomplished an amazing feat and must have great leadership and resourcesfullness. People respect, and fear such leaders. Sun Yat Sen, Lenin, Ghandhi and Mao Sze Tong, Hitler r such examples. Lot of the examples r harsh, but only harsh leaders can control the country then. They manage to keep a control of their country for a long time. If US appoint someone to take over, tat person will never be respected by the people. Wat special abilities does he have other than bootlicking? Wat contributions had he made ? If he made a policy tat does not favour well for me, why does I need to obey him ? If I am a soldier, why will I follow government's order when someone promises a better future for me by other political party. People will be kept continuosly in power struggle tat destabilise the nation.
I guess tis is the last u will hear from me since tis took so much of my time. All those people who hate me and my name will probably rejoice when they read tis. -
y ur running away now? ur doin a gd job here...the problem is tat ur hijacking others thread..Originally posted by stupidissmart:Just to add more.
American critised Saddam on how to rule the country. The main problem lies on his eldest son. He rapes girls and he punish people who lose in games. Wat evil deed does Saddam and his second son do then ? Well, then now America is the ruler there, how good a government is he ? No water, power, police and jobs. And wat does he do ? He blames it n the fault on Iraqis people. First he criticised Saddam for being a bad ruler and when he has a chance to rule, he is worse. And he is like a spoilt brat blame on the people and etc etc... Aren't the people of Iraq the same for the 2 rulers ? Why do they fared differently ? Saddam too have its own rebels to handle. Why does he manage to keep it under control ?
And the government set up by American won't last too. If some person manage to stage a rebellion against Saddam and seize control, he will last long since he has accomplished an amazing feat and must have great leadership and resourcesfullness. People respect, and fear such leaders. Sun Yat Sen, Lenin, Ghandhi and Mao Sze Tong, Hitler r such examples. Lot of the examples r harsh, but only harsh leaders can control the country then. They manage to keep a control of their country for a long time. If US appoint someone to take over, tat person will never be respected by the people. Wat special abilities does he have other than bootlicking? Wat contributions had he made ? If he made a policy tat does not favour well for me, why does I need to obey him ? If I am a soldier, why will I follow government's order when someone promises a better future for me by other political party. People will be kept continuosly in power struggle tat destabilise the nation.
I guess tis is the last u will hear from me since tis took so much of my time. All those people who hate me and my name will probably rejoice when they read tis.
rejoice? u think too highly of urself...im against the war in Iraq too..but wat had been..have been done..i just wana see Iraq in its former glory without Saddam...n Afghanistan too...
all tis reason n logic of anti war is useless now...screw Bush for wat happen...dun screw the Iraqi hope for a better life now...
the bottomline is..there isnt much thing we can do...but hope..l -
It is already apparent that Stupidissmart has demostrated time and again a healthy disregard for logic, facts and reason, along with general ignorance of subject matter and objective reasoning. What he does have in abundance is a healthy capacity for irrational emotional outbursts.
He tries to make himself look like he knows a lot and that his views hold water by flooding the forum excessively with his disconnected ramblings and disjointed examples, impossible contextes and thoughts. But sadly in this case it is apparent he has not only utterly failed to make any point, but not even addressed the glaring flaws in his overall "case". Prehaps the only person impressed by his soapbox speech is himself, he's just one of those people you shake your head at and ignore, saying "well, it's your funeral..."
His nick may say "Stupidissmart", but apparently in this case, stupid is simply just stupid. -
Incredulity does not begin to describe my reaction to reading stupid's tripe. How did Saddam play games? Perhaps stupid should have paid some attention to the headlines in the second half of the 1990's. Here's what Richard Butler, head of the UN weapons (not weopons, by the way) inspection team until 1999, had to say:
When I led the UN weapons inspectors to disarm Iraq in 1997-98, I repeatedly sent my team on surprise, no-notice inspections to discover Hussein's hidden illegal weapons. My decisions were based on intelligence materials provided by a number of governments and information provided by Iraqi defectors. Sometimes we found illegal weapons. Frequently, however, our search proved fruitless.
Anyone other than those medically certified to be in a coma ought to be aware of this. After all, it was only splashed across the front pages of the newspapers during the period that Butler described.
Inspectors would find themselves staring at empty rooms. On other occasions, we were blocked at the front gate of a suspicious site while our helicopters observed trucks being hastily loaded within the site and driven away out the back door, presumably removing incriminating materials.
Our no-notice inspections were often compromised. Iraqi intelligence had penetrated us. Whenever our inspections found nothing, Hussein's deputy and inspections point man Tariq Aziz would insist how this proved Iraq no longer possessed illegal weapons.
I often found his claims difficult to accept because our experts had good reason to believe the opposite. This argument reached its height in early 1998 when we discovered significant Iraqi production of the most dangerous chemical warfare agent – VX. Iraq denied it had ever made VX.
We proved that this was not the case. The Iraqis then moved from denial to minimisation, saying they had made only 200 litres of the substance – one minute drop of which on the skin can kill in three minutes. We then proved that they had made at least 4000 litres and had loaded it into missile warheads.
In early 1999, after Hussein had ejected me and the other UN inspectors from Iraq, I furnished the Security Council with a final report on Iraq's WMDs.
The Security Council was largely hostile to the inspection process and we had come under savage attack, particularly from the Russians. The council nonetheless unanimously agreed to the substance of that report.
Then again, one might have to consider that stupid could, after all, be brain dead. -
It is insane to reply to your post, but I will try to be stupid to show how smart you can be.
No, it is too smart not to start a new thread but It should be only simple courtesyOriginally posted by stupidissmart:Maybe the titles does drift from the original posted, but I it is more important to consider the content of the argument in it rather than where it spawns from. Does it make a big difference if I post it at as a new thread ?
Nice try, but unfortunately that "water bomb" was not aimed to hit at the targetted "BIG BULLY".
I got to ask, how does the Saddam play games with the UN inspectors ? Does allowing them to break into some palace for checking playing games ? The UN inspectors have the power to check wherever sites at watever time they need, inclusive of the sites where US intelligence suspected sites. How do u play "games" with rules being set by US and UN ? Wat aspect of the checks conducted by UN considered a game to u ? The only reason why u say it is a game probably because it is coined by US for saying tat. How do u end tis "game" then ? U got to admit u r already biased tat they have weopons prior to checks already. U just felt tat the game can only end in one way, tat is WOMD r found and not the possibility tat there really has no weopons there. Why do u keep insisting tat they have weopons there ? The only game u can say they r playing is tat they r demanding for more talks and negotiation. I don't know tat being diplomatic is a game. And the best player is certainly North Korea. [/quote]
Hopefully, the following articles will not be too stupid to be understood in a smart way:-Iraq’s Nuclear Hide and Seek – September 1991
http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1991/s91/s91albright.html
IraqÂ’s Weapons of Mass Destruction
November-December 1998
http://special.fco.gov.uk/background/iraqcbw.shtml
Overview of IAEA Nuclear Inspections in Iraq
http://www.nci.org/new/iraq-ib.htm
New Iraq Inspection Regime Must Answer All Unresolved Questions About SaddamÂ’s Nuclear Weapons Program - Wednesday, March 22, 2000
http://www.nci.org/iraq/iraq322.htm
American like a big bully in school was hit by a sudden water bomb by someone. He began to be angry and try to gather support from friends to hit back tat person. He made it such a point att those who support him is considered a friend while the other r enemies. No sitting on the fence. Of course being such a big bully he got his way, and the idiot who threw water bombs got beaten so badly tat he need to quit school. Yet big bully isn't satisfied and decided to hit his closest friend. He accused him of hiding tons of water bombs and assist in throwing bombs at him. Of course being a big bully, he do not need to produce any evidence, his words r orders. The best friend try to prove to others tat he is innocent, but he is not given a chance and got whacked by him too, despite objections by other neutral members. Does tis story sounds familiar ?
The "Water Bomb" that you mentioned was the hijacking of three Airlines filled with innocent passengers, and flown into two buildings in which over 10,000 innocent civilians and visitors to the buildings were at, and resulted in the destruction of two landmark buildings and over 5,000 innocent lives - not including the 900 passengers in those three planes that were hijacked.
How would you react if this "Water Bomb" had hit you ?
[quote]
After 9-11, Afghan is hit badly. Al Qaeda is a shadow of its former strength. But why attack Iraq even without proper proof and documentation ? I sympatise those who r dead, but please do not made revenge blindly. If u fight for a good cause, I have nothing to say. If u hit just to get a feeling of getting back, then gone too far. U took your revenge, they too will want to take their revenge back. IS there any end to tis ? Like Isreal and Palestinians. U think it will end if both sides keep "revenging" on each other ? Afghanistan refused to surrender Osama Bin Laden, after all the intelligence agencies had traced the trail of evidence to Al Qaeda; and like yourself, the entire Islamic Countries demanded for PROOF and HARD EVIDENCE before they will accept that Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden are involved in the 9-11 destruction.
After the invasion of Afghanistan, there were evidence in printed records, written notes, computer files, and confessions of Al Qaeda fighters about their involvement with the 9-11 attacks; and yet the Islamic World refused to acknowledge the relationships, nor did they even accept the existence of such a terror group.
Iraq was attacked as a result of its evasiveness in submitting itself to UN declaration for it to dismantle its WMD program and end-products. The other pressing concern was the mistake that Saddam made in allowing an Al Qaeda group to set up camp in Iraq, and the beginning a co-operative effort to jointly attack US interests.
How much do you know of Singapore National Reserve ?
U said tat Saddam has no support from his people, then how does he hide all the weopons of mass destruction and not even a clue to wheer they r now ? The scale of the job is large ! Even capturing scientist and people of power produce no evidence. Do u really think hiding such WMD is easy like ABC. And do u think tat everyone will be so loyal especially to a fallen regime ? Wake up !! Iraq is unlike Bermuda Triangle. Don't keep insisting tat they have the weopons just by blind faith. Prove by hard evidence not by inferences and drawing own conclusion.
Do you think the Singapore Government will tell you where they have invested the money that belong to you ?
Or for that matter, how much information does Singaporeans have concerning where, how and what type and quantity of SAF ammunition is kept in Singapore ?
On the same basis, why should Saddam Hussein tell the Iraqis where his WMD is hidden ?
Be patient, Saddam's closest colleagues and personal body guards have been captured, and hopefully you will see the light at the end of the tunnel.
The insistence that Iraq has WMD was not created by the Western Communities, and certainly not created by an insignificant Singaporean like myself.
Read from the report from an Iraqi Scientist involved in Saddam's nuclear program and had defected:
The IRAQI Threat – Khidhir Hamza (Saddam Hussein’s Bomb Maker) - 31 July 2002
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/hamaza/default.asp
Saddam builds a new Atom Bomb - Iraqi Engineer Defector24 December 2000
http://www.nci.org/s/sad-new-bomb-st-122400.htm
Has Iraq come clean at last ? – November / December 1995
http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1995/nd95/nd95.albright.html -
Continuation:
There is a bad feeling that from your tone and manner in writing, you maybe a believer and practitioner of the Islamic faith.from stupidissmart
The enquiries r there, and they should placed a doubt on the reliability of the report. Iraq technology is relatively low compared to other countries and they have been isolated for so many years. Where they get such technology to make WMD from ? Is it from Al Qaeda who is more backward ? It is already obvious that the report does sounds suspicious. And the report is really proven wrong since no such weopons r found. [/quote]
Try reading from the following site, hopefully it is not too smart to be understood in a stupid way.Engineer for Hire – the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
December 1993
http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1993/d93/d93Albright.html
U mean since they r not linked to Middle East, then they should be free of accusation, even sending the weopons to rogues states in Africa is okay. So blatantly put, u suggests they hit Iraq just for revenge, just because it is a muslim state, just because it is in middle east isn't it. So Africa can kill all the people they want as long as they r not Americans right. And North Korea probably sell weopons to highest bidders, why not to muslim extremist next time, or maybe they already have done it.
My apologies if I have offended your Islamic sensitivities, which seems to have distorted a serious degree of sensibilities, and I believe that it is smart to be stupid in not responding to this - unless you insist on a reply.
What is your information that Iraq will attack Britain within 45 minutes ? Are you referring to a missile launched attack from Iraq to Britain - which will take a little more then 45 minutes of flight time ?
U say they won't attack Korea because they have nuclear weopons and can be used at China and Japan, why r they not afraid Iraq will attack British within 45 minutes with their WMD when AMerican attack them ? Tat will certainly creates lot of havoc, more than Asia isn't it ? I guess having REAL weopons of mass destruction really help here.
The price of war in the Korean Peninsula will be certainly be much higher than the war in Iraq. Iraq has oil while Korea has starving people.
You should know that Iraq has no missile that can reach Britain in the first place, so that should make Iraq not so difficult to disarm, even with Saddam threats of using his WMD.
The main problem is Saddam is an unpredictable rouge leader, who can unleash nerve gas on the Iraqi Kurdish people, and ethnic cleansing the Sunni Mulsim sects in the marshland of Iraq. Saddam provide succour to the terrorists, by preferring to give Iraq's money to the family of every suicide bomber, then using Iraqi money to feed the many hungry Iraqi children that are dying daily - as featured in propaganda newsreeels. He built more palaces after the first Iraq War with the UN sanctioned oil sale, and left Iraqi citizens to starve.
The danger of a nuclear device in the hands of leaders such as Saddam (and the Iranian Ayatollahs) is that they mix religion with politics, and actually believe that Jihad and suicide bombings are honorable - with the Jihad martyrs being rewarded with seven virgins waiting for them in heaven.
My apologies for being stupidly smart, but is it religious faith or sex the motivating factor for those who approve and accept this Jihad approach to settle issues ?WMD – Saddam’s Bombmaker Exposes a Tyrant’s Quest for Nukes – 10 March 2003I am not sure what you are driving at with this paragraph; however, just as Vice-President Hamzah and most Indonesian do not believe that there are extremists in the midst of their Muslim Community, and when the Bali and Jakarta bombing occurred, who do you think should be blamed for the inaction and the refusal to accept information given by the Internal Security Services of Malaysia, Philippines and Singapore ?
http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/030310a.asp
Myth Building: The “Islamic” Bomb – January / February 1993http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1993/j93/j93Hoodbhoy.html
saying tis is same as telling all singaporean is at fault if the bomb at Yishun MRT really took place. It just need 30 people out of the whole population of 3 millions to creates havoc. How many actually suspect they r so extreme ? U cannot blame ALL iraqis just because there r a few black sheeps around. And how further do u want those silent majority to act ?
No one is blaming the Saudi Government for the large number of Saudi nationals involved in the 9-11 hijacking, or that Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi National. However, the Saudi Government was held responsibe for its refusal and its continued self-denial that there are terrorists amongst its citizens; and only when car bombings occurred inside Saudi Arabia that resulted in the loss of innocent lives, then the Saudi Government woke up belatedly to a crisis.
If you read from your last post, the meaning was quite different.
I refer Saddams Churchill because u say Saddam cannot ask its people to fight for their countries. I want to say all commanders do tat since beginning of warfare.
Hopefully, the following article may help to refocus some smartness in the stupidity needed to move further along to understand the problems in Iraq.
U think outside interferences will help solve problems in Iraq itself ? A chinese saying goes tat A Fair judge cannot settle domestic disputes. Which countries, after being hit by a war froma third party aiming to 'liberise' them got a good result in return ? US and Iraq cultures r totally different. How does US help them ? They help, and look at the mess now. The blame should not be to Iraqis but by how naive and idealistic US leaders became.
Saddam may be cruel, but how does US fare in such a country. Some countries need to be ruled by iron hand. In such desperate situation, do u really blame the information minister to lie to boost their morales ? A doctor telling his patient tat he is gonna be alright even though he is going to die should be prosecuted too then. I don't see any significant of it to tis argument.Iraq – The Threat of WarCute, but I prefer to remain "A"im "to be"at "stupidissmart" kind of logic. Emotion loss ? Hardly.
Letter to British PM, Tony Blair, from “Iraqis Exiles in UK”15 February 2003
http://www.caabu.org/campaigns/iraqi-exiles-letter.html
[quote]
"A"merican "to be". Why lose your logic and emotion in this war ? -
Would you try to absorb from the following site:Originally posted by stupidissmart:Just to add more.
American critised Saddam on how to rule the country. The main problem lies on his eldest son. He rapes girls and he punish people who lose in games. Wat evil deed does Saddam and his second son do then ? Well, then now America is the ruler there, how good a government is he ? No water, power, police and jobs. And wat does he do ? He blames it n the fault on Iraqis people. First he criticised Saddam for being a bad ruler and when he has a chance to rule, he is worse. And he is like a spoilt brat blame on the people and etc etc... Aren't the people of Iraq the same for the 2 rulers ? Why do they fared differently ? Saddam too have its own rebels to handle. Why does he manage to keep it under control ?
SADDAM HUSSEIN : crimes and human rights abuse
10 September 2002
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/uk_human_rights_dossier_on_iraq/pdf/iraq_human_rights.pdf
{High Tension Working for Saddam Hussein}
Hitchens: Saddam Caught Red-Handed – 28 January 2003
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12577283&method=full&siteid=50143
Stupidly enough, if anyone can topple Saddam Hussein and seize control will gain the respect of the Iraqis, I wonder who has toppled Saddam now ? Was it George Bush or some Iraqi General ?
And the government set up by American won't last too. If some person manage to stage a rebellion against Saddam and seize control, he will last long since he has accomplished an amazing feat and must have great leadership and resourcesfullness. People respect, and fear such leaders. Sun Yat Sen, Lenin, Ghandhi and Mao Sze Tong, Hitler r such examples. Lot of the examples r harsh, but only harsh leaders can control the country then. They manage to keep a control of their country for a long time. If US appoint someone to take over, tat person will never be respected by the people. Wat special abilities does he have other than bootlicking? Wat contributions had he made ? If he made a policy tat does not favour well for me, why does I need to obey him ? If I am a soldier, why will I follow government's order when someone promises a better future for me by other political party. People will be kept continuosly in power struggle tat destabilise the nation.
What has happened to the ironed rule of Hitler's Nazism, Lenin's Communism, Mao Tse Tung's Red Cultural Terror ?
Are they permanent features in this Twenty First Century ? Where is the legacy of their iron fist rule - with Nazism destroyed, Communism embracing Capitalism, Mao's Red Cultural Revolution giving way to Deng Siao Ping's "equality of the black cat and white cat are good, as long as they both catch the mouse" ?
It must be quite a stupendously smart stroke of brilliance for you to consider Ghandi and Sun Yat Sen's iron rule, I wonder what were their guiding philosophy that aroused your emotion to this level of brilliance ?
Must you fade away like some 'old soldier' just when most are enjoying the brilliant humor that you have entertained us with ?
I guess tis is the last u will hear from me since tis took so much of my time. All those people who hate me and my name will probably rejoice when they read tis. -
I think we are effectively flogging a dead horse now, no point going on. His soapbox has been completely destroyed. The only way he can carry on, should he decide to, is to respond in irrational emotion, which would only end up discrediting himself further then he already has.
-
I am back... I am even surprised myself for coming back.
First, I glanced through all the references u sent me. There r 2 flaws in it. First, most of them r before 2002, which is before the latest arms inspections done before the war. And most of them one sided, failing wat I called, being objective. I offer to u now some new, very objective report made by Han Blix in 2003. 1st link, he has made his case very fair, stating coorperation and unaccounted weopons before the war. This is more relevant for those who think citically. In the second link, he suggested the twist made by "English media". It also state the enthusaism from US to find any documents of WMD. The third link is short, saying tat the inspectors r not allowed back to Iraq.
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/recent%20items.html
http://www.cctv.com/english/news/TVNews/MorningNews/20030423/100198.html
The second thing about your references is tat a lot r accounts from a person story. They r nothing but just gather sympathy. It is true story only from his viewpoint, subjected to his exaggeration and twisting of facts.
For the waterbomb story, it seems u only read a line, which is waterbomb, and u compared it to airlines etc. Okie, then make the story tis way, he got shot by a paper bullet and blinded one of the bully eyes. The bully on his end, instead of beating him till he quit school, he beat him to death, and he decide to do the same too to the other friend. Does the seriousness sound fair now ?
How about the other more part of the story ? It is grieving for the American after 9-11, however his after actions apalled me. Without hard facts, without giving more time. He attacked Iraq, totally ignoring UN council, mass protest all over the world and force other nations to be his ally using the carrot and stick method.
The reply for AL Qaeda is totally different in the Iraq case now. Now US has won, where is the evidence u wanna hear ? I already told u before tat u cannot just enter a house and shoot everybody down, and find evidence in his house afterward. U have to have evidence before actually smashing your way in. No evidence is found, and if tis continues so, then wat grounds does US has to stage a war against Iraq ?
National reserve is unlike WMD. WMD is physical. There is lab, there is storage and there are many people working on it. If tat scientist has been caught, why not use his testimony to find out wher the lab is. As u have stated before, if german assist Iraq to buil underground bunker, why don't they be called up for search of WMD since they r the one tat designed it ? One the the scientist even claim Iraq is building a nuclear weopon. From reports from Han Blix, tis is highly unlikely. It is not even suspected when checks r made. Iraq don't any facility to carry tis out at all. The 3rd link is dated 1995. Long ago to be relevant.
I think u still live in the 90's to keep coming up with references 10 years ago. And I am am free of any religion, and I particularly hate religion with strict rules and regulation. The first article I write in tis forum is about how "unreligious" I am. Tis is written by u.
[b]The North Koreans have certainly sold their missiles and missile technologies to some of the rouge states in the Middle East and Africa[/b], but they have not sold any weapons or WMD end products to groups such as Hamas, Al Qaeda, or the Hissbola – so I am not sure where your information is coming from.
From such a line, I can only infer tat u think lightly of WMD sold to Africa and middle east while selling to Hamas, Al Qaeda, or the Hissbola is terrible. Why draw such a line ? If Africa and middle East has such weopons, many deaths and chaos can still be ensured. And as I say, they sell to highest bidders. Muslim extremists group aren't poor either. There is nothing sensitive about it. The below paragraph is written by ATobe.
By attacking North Korea, the biggest casualty will be the South Koreans and the Japanese population, as the unpredictable and ruthless Kim Jong Il will resort to the use of Nuclear strikes. Mass destruction of human lives and infrastructures will be the end result in the entire Korean Peninsula, Japan, and parts of China (if it gets drawn into combat with the USA).
The British in their "spiced up" report has stated tat they have the capability of launchig their weopons tat is capable of attacking in 45 minutes came from the report written by British. If your fear tat Korea will unleashed his weopons if they were attacked, why aren't they afraid of Iraq unleashing his weopons when he is attacked. I included the link for the Dossier written and published by Britian government.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/uk_dossier_on_iraq/html/full_dossier.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/07/sprj.irq.uk.dossier/index.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/020603_plagiarized.html
Now doubts has arised on the credibility of the report. Tat is the only reason why war has started in Iraq. If at report turns out to be exaggerated, spiced up, then doesn't tis clearly show tat the war is fought because it has to be fought, instead of liberating the people of Iraq ?
"
With regards to the lawless situation in Iraq, the Iraqis are responsible in contributing to an unstable and volatile situation
Even just when Baghdad had fallen, and before Saddam, his Sons, and the leadership had been captured, the Iraqi Religious Leaders were already working the ground, agitating the Iraqi population to demonstrate to kick the US Army out of Iraq.
If this is not foolishness, what else can we describe the mind of the average Iraqi ?
"
For tis paragraph, I came up with the reply of why blaming the Iraqis when Americans fail to rule Iraq smoothly. Does the majority of the Indonesia knew tat the Bali blast will occur ? Does the majority of people in Saudi foolish when the car bombing occurs ? I am saying tat why put the blame on the "average Iraqi" when it is just a few black sheep around tat start the attack. Can u say tat all SIngaporean r foolish if the attack at Yishun MRT is successful ?
"...the Saudi Government woke up belatedly to a crisis. "
written by Atobe too. So if u say the government is responsible for the crisis, then the government of Iraq is American and I hope he wakes up to tis crisis too.
I am trying to say about management for MOST EXAMPLES. Is 3 out of 5 considerdd most ? Wat is like before Mao Sze Tong took over ? Wat was it like before Hitler took over ? Wat was it like before Lenin took over ? There were utter chaos then. These 3, enforces strict law and rulings manage to control the chaotic situation. It is easier to govern when things r peaceful. It took the grit of Lee Kuan Yew to iron issues out in Singapore before Goh Chok Tong took over. If LKY is a bit less forceful then, than things may not turn up the way they r in singapore now.
To NathanG5. I am not against help to be given to Iraqis. I am against American for being unilateralism. I am against some of the policies they they had made and I hope people r more aware of its action critically and hopefully, will act as a deterent when US try to act unilateralism. US is unlike Iraq, it should be civilised and diplomatic. If such a powerful force go around in a blaind rampage, then it only act fuel to the flames of chaos. -
to SingaporeTyrannosaur, wat smart comments have u yourself given ? U just employed personal attack without giving any elaboration ?
Seems to me u should be called SingaporeToady.
U seems only responsible for cheering after Atobe reply, and booing when I made my stand. DO something more constructive for goodness sake. -
These are not personal attacks, they are simply observances of your general conduct, logic and behaviour. And had you bothered to swallow your pride, which is the only thing you appear to have in abundance lacking everything else vital like common sense, would have been already glaringly obvious to you.
Basically your line of operation in this farce of a debate which is more like some reality series on how truly irrational and numb to reason you are goes like this:
Step 1: I must be right.
Step 2: Find whatever that appears to support my case, no matter how weak
Step 3: Make sweeping statements
Step 4: Respond to reasoned, logical rebuttals with emotional outbursts and shady logic and improbbable examples.
Step 5: Try to appear dignified (failing utterly so however) by pretending to have some kind of chest-puffing up honour.
Step 6: If it does not work, repeat step 1.
I am no Adobe fan, but unfortunately, what I do not like is irrational, illogical people, and sadly, you happen to fall well into the deep end of that spectrum. Think MSS, you are pretty much alike him.
Thank you. -
To Toady
Wat r u doing ? Aren't u just attacking me without any elaboration again ? After wat u have all said, I am still left bewildered what are the things that I have written wrongly. Only tis time u try to sounds more "educated", slightly less emotional and hone on the english.
Since u have written such a list down, lets go down one by one
I must be right
Nope, I believe I am right. If u yourself don't even believe u r right, then wat r u arguing for ?
Find whatever that appears to support my case, no matter how weak
Now I really need clarification from u about tis. Which case I have argued r weak ? And I thought tat is wat all argument r meant to do, find all possible support for me to present my case. If it appears weak to u, it may not be so to others. Then wat do u normally do during a difference in opinions, don't present anything or slack ?
Make sweeping statements
Please give me an example. I think u probably mis-interprete me. The "sweeping statement" I have made r showing how absurb some other fellow in the forum is . If he say something I do not agree, wat better way to show it then portraying his argument by looking from a different perspective.
Respond to reasoned, logical rebuttals with emotional outbursts and shady logic and improbbable examples.
I guess u probably hate the metaphors I am always using, like the school bully etc. I agree I tend to be emotional at certain periods, however all the things I have written is not without logic in it. On the other hand, if u write something without any emotional ingredient in it, it probably sounds like a technical report. I am not writing a news article please.
I do not want to be too naggy and get on everybody's nerve. Basically, am I the only one tat commits the 6 Toady commandments u have listed ? I believe even old soldiers like Atobe also commit such "sins" listed by u from time to time. Are u really free from all of it ? Is it something really undesirable ? -
duh.. send u go fignt in iraq bet u will oso make noise.Originally posted by Fanatical_Knight:Can u believe that the mighy white Americans need aircon to survive in war zone Iraq???!!?? I mean they are so weak, if it were us over there, we would endure it readily, we would not need PAP to send us aircon haha! Americans are weak.
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My apologies to "dumbdumb! " and again to "fanatical_knight" for pushing this discussion off thread.
Glad to see you are back in action.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I am back... I am even surprised myself for coming back.
"A person's story" ?
First, I glanced through all the references u sent me. There r 2 flaws in it. First, most of them r before 2002, which is before the latest arms inspections done before the war. And most of them one sided, failing wat I called, being objective. I offer to u now some new, very objective report made by Han Blix in 2003. 1st link, he has made his case very fair, stating coorperation and unaccounted weopons before the war. This is more relevant for those who think citically. In the second link, he suggested the twist made by "English media". It also state the enthusaism from US to find any documents of WMD. The third link is short, saying tat the inspectors r not allowed back to Iraq.
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/recent%20items.html
http://www.cctv.com/english/news/TVNews/MorningNews/20030423/100198.html [/quote]
Unfortunately, the three references that you gave did not provide the link to the page that you intended, and had led me to blank pages.
May I offer you the following reports from Hans Blix that reveal the contradiction of this man, who prefer to remain neutral and non-commital in carrying out his tasks and responsibilities, as he is a trained diplomat and not an Investigator.BlixÂ’s difficult mission
Is he tough enough to make Iraq comp;y with arms inspection ?
7 October 2002
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1007/p01s03-wogn.html
Hans Blix
Incompetent bureaucrat or cowardly diplomat ?
26 November 2002
http://slate.msn.com/id/2074629/
UN Inspectors Criticize Iraqis Over Arms List
10 January 2003
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/news/2003/ajan/10_list.html
Hans Blix
Iraq will benefit from weapons inspection
11 January 2003
http://www.metimes.com/2K2/issue2002-4/reg/iraq_will_benefit.htm
Blix: Empty Weapons; “Not a Big Deal”
18 January 2003
http://www.truthout.com/docs_02/011903C.blix.empty.htm
Blix anger with Iraq growing
Dr El Baradei – Head, IAEA, criticized Iraq for failing to declare documents, confirm Iraqi deceit and dishonesty.
20 January 2003
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/19/1042911270936.html
Blix Tricks
The UN crowd is trying to replace the goal of “regime change” with a permanent inspection regime in Iraq – 22 January 2003
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/147ucvdx.asp
Executive Summary
UN Weapons Inspection in Iraq: A Progress Report
23 January 2003
http://www.fourthfreedom.org/pdf/inspections_report_exec.pdf
BlixÂ’s statement to the United Nations
Report on Chemical Weapons – Nerve Agent VX – Saddam’s contradiction confirmed
Report on Biological Weapons – Anthrax – Saddam’s contradiction confirmed
Report on Missiles Development – Permitted Range – Saddam’s contradiction confirmed
27 January 2003
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/01/27/16660.html
Blix sees signs of ‘change of heart’ for Iraq
10 February 2003
http://www.thedailytimes.com/sited/story/html/121075
BlixÂ’s February 14 Report to UN
14 February 2003
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/14/iraq/main540681.shtml
[quote]
The second thing about your references is tat a lot r accounts from a person story. They r nothing but just gather sympathy. It is true story only from his viewpoint, subjected to his exaggeration and twisting of facts.
From the references given, at least one was an account from a Saddam's Scientist involved in the WMD program and had defected; and another reference given was that from an Iraqi Electrical Engineer who fled Iraq after seeing what had happened to anyone who failed in a task given by Saddam, his sons, or his henchmen. -
National Reserve is physical too, like when Saddam Hussein's son walked into the Iraqi Central Bank and loaded a few trucks with all the gold bars and US Dollars, driving all away before the US tanks arrived into Baghdad.
For the waterbomb story, it seems u only read a line, which is waterbomb, and u compared it to airlines etc. Okie, then make the story tis way, he got shot by a paper bullet and blinded one of the bully eyes. The bully on his end, instead of beating him till he quit school, he beat him to death, and he decide to do the same too to the other friend. Does the seriousness sound fair now ? [/quote]
I am not so sure if this smart story had developed into something stupidly and awrily confusing.
Maybe I try to understand your story this way - Ah Seng (a bully) stood and watched, while his bully friends acted on his instructions and hijacked some classroom chairs, and started to beat up and injure the other students in his Class. When the Class Monitor walked in, Ah Seng and his friends ran into a different Class with a bigger bully named Ah Beng. The Class Monitor asked Ah Beng to surrender Ah Seng and his friends, but Ah Beng challenged the Class Monitor to enter the Classroom if he had the guts, or show any proof. Not realising that the Class Monitor had a black belt, Ah Beng and Ah Seng with their gang started to beat the Class Monitor when he accepted the challenge by walking in. When Ah Beng, Ah Seng and their gang got beaten up so badly, the remaining bullies very obediently started to talk about Ah Seng's instructions.
Does the serious story sound fair now ?
Did you get your time line correct and place correct ?
How about the other more part of the story ? It is grieving for the American after 9-11, however his after actions apalled me. Without hard facts, without giving more time. He attacked Iraq, totally ignoring UN council, mass protest all over the world and force other nations to be his ally using the carrot and stick method.
There is almost a two year interval between 9-11 and the US attack in Iraq.
Did you try to refer to the US reaction to 9-11 and attacked Afghanistan instead ? This is getting confusing, and getting quite uniquely smart.
How about telling that to Singapore Internal Security Department (ISD) in the manner that they arrested all of the Singapore J.I. members on a slim suspicion and no hard evidence (that came after the arrest) ?
The reply for AL Qaeda is totally different in the Iraq case now. Now US has won, where is the evidence u wanna hear ? I already told u before tat u cannot just enter a house and shoot everybody down, and find evidence in his house afterward. U have to have evidence before actually smashing your way in. No evidence is found, and if tis continues so, then wat grounds does US has to stage a war against Iraq ?
Now try to digest the following two reference sitesTapes show al Qaeda trained for urban jihad on West
August 21, 2002
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/08/20/terror.tape.main/index.html
Al-Qaeda records solve many 9/11 puzzles, but others linger
29 August 2002
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-08-29-al-qaeda-clues_x.htm
National reserve is unlike WMD. WMD is physical.
How about reading this again from Hans Blix in his contradictory report to the UN Security Councils that admitted Iraq's failures in meeting all of UN Security Council's Resolutions for the last 10 years? From the second reference, you cannot trust Blix entirely.
There is lab, there is storage and there are many people working on it. If tat scientist has been caught, why not use his testimony to find out wher the lab is. As u have stated before, if german assist Iraq to buil underground bunker, why don't they be called up for search of WMD since they r the one tat designed it ? One the the scientist even claim Iraq is building a nuclear weopon. From reports from Han Blix, tis is highly unlikely. It is not even suspected when checks r made. Iraq don't any facility to carry tis out at all. The 3rd link is dated 1995. Long ago to be relevant.BlixÂ’s statement to the United NationsI am not sure how you came to this conclusion about living in the 90's, which I am quite certain you must have lived through and may have missed the count.
Report on Chemical Weapons – Nerve Agent VX – Saddam’s contradiction confirmed
Report on Biological Weapons – Anthrax – Saddam’s contradiction confirmed
Report on Missiles Development – Permitted Range – Saddam’s contradiction confirmed
27 January 2003
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/01/27/16660.html
BlixÂ’s difficult mission
Is he tough enough to make Iraq comp;y with arms inspection ?
7 October 2002
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1007/p01s03-wogn.html
I think u still live in the 90's to keep coming up with references 10 years ago. And I am am free of any religion, and I particularly hate religion with strict rules and regulation.
From the 13 references given, five were from 1991 to 1998, and EIGHT were from 2000 to 2003.
Glad to know that you are "free of any religion" but your penchant in a seemingly religious observance of believing and displaying the attitude of "stupid-is-smart", is by itself a new religion of your own creation. Careful where this attitude may lead you to.
[quote]
The first article I write in tis forum is about how "unreligious" I am. Tis is written by u.
[b]The North Koreans have certainly sold their missiles and missile technologies to some of the rouge states in the Middle East and Africa, but they have not sold any weapons or WMD end products to groups such as Hamas, Al Qaeda, or the Hissbola – so I am not sure where your information is coming from.
From such a line, I can only infer tat u think lightly of WMD sold to Africa and middle east while selling to Hamas, Al Qaeda, or the Hissbola is terrible. Why draw such a line ? If Africa and middle East has such weopons, many deaths and chaos can still be ensured. And as I say, they sell to highest bidders. Muslim extremists group aren't poor either. There is nothing sensitive about it. [/b]The difference is that North Korea did not have any DIRECT relations, nor does it support any Middle-east Terrorist Groups (or Freedom Fighters to some others); while Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Libya had given morale, financial incentives, weapons, and material help to these Groups.
The North Korean conduct their business in a "legitimate" state-to-state transaction, while Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan had direct links and motivations to these Groups. -
I am not the British Government but speak only from the experience as a Singaporean, and support Singapore's position that involved ourselves with the USA to get rid of Saddam.
The below paragraph is written by ATobe.
By attacking North Korea, the biggest casualty will be the South Koreans and the Japanese population, as the unpredictable and ruthless Kim Jong Il will resort to the use of Nuclear strikes. [b]Mass destruction of human lives and infrastructures will be the end result in the entire Korean Peninsula, Japan, and parts of China (if it gets drawn into combat with the USA).
The British in their "spiced up" report has stated tat they have the capability of launchig their weopons tat is capable of attacking in 45 minutes came from the report written by British. If your fear tat Korea will unleashed his weopons if they were attacked, why aren't they afraid of Iraq unleashing his weopons when he is attacked. I included the link for the Dossier written and published by Britian government.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/uk_dossier_on_iraq/html/full_dossier.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/07/sprj.irq.uk.dossier/index.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/020603_plagiarized.html
Now doubts has arised on the credibility of the report. Tat is the only reason why war has started in Iraq. If at report turns out to be exaggerated, spiced up, then doesn't tis clearly show tat the war is fought because it has to be fought, instead of liberating the people of Iraq ? [/b]
With or without the 45 minutes threat to UK or Europe from Iraq, the remaining threat from a 45 minute time lapse could easily be seen from how quickly a car bomb - (loaded with WMD) - can be driven or shipped into a City in that same amount of time.
Do you know that a car can be driven from Woodlands into Robinson Road in 45 minutes ?
Will you not involve yourself when you know that groups like the Jemaih Islamiya are supported by Al Qaeda, and Iraq has begun to think of the possibilities of using Al Qaeda's network instead of a missile ?
If despite the tough laws that the Singapore Government has introduced, and the dedicated service of the Singapore Home Team and the SAF, who will be responsible if all Singaporeans refused to co-operate with the Singapore Government ?
With regards to the lawless situation in Iraq, [b]the Iraqis are responsible in contributing to an unstable and volatile situation
Even just when Baghdad had fallen, and before Saddam, his Sons, and the leadership had been captured, the Iraqi Religious Leaders were already working the ground, agitating the Iraqi population to demonstrate to kick the US Army out of Iraq.
If this is not foolishness, what else can we describe the mind of the average Iraqi ?
For tis paragraph, I came up with the reply of why blaming the Iraqis when Americans fail to rule Iraq smoothly. Does the majority of the Indonesia knew tat the Bali blast will occur ? Does the majority of people in Saudi foolish when the car bombing occurs ? I am saying tat why put the blame on the "average Iraqi" when it is just a few black sheep around tat start the attack. Can u say tat all SIngaporean r foolish if the attack at Yishun MRT is successful ?
"...the Saudi Government woke up belatedly to a crisis. "
written by Atobe too. So if u say the government is responsible for the crisis, then the government of Iraq is American and I hope he wakes up to tis crisis too. [/b]
What if Singaporeans are not afraid of the tough response from the Government, and we decide to agitate, demonstrate, and fight with the Singapore Riot Police in the streets - (just like the South Koreans and Taiwanese and the Hongkongers) ?
Who will be responsible for the lawlessness then ?
Before Hitler, the Jews had led normal lives, the neighboring European countries around Germany were at peace.
I am trying to say about management for MOST EXAMPLES. Is 3 out of 5 considerdd most ? Wat is like before Mao Sze Tong took over ? Wat was it like before Hitler took over ? Wat was it like before Lenin took over ? There were utter chaos then. These 3, enforces strict law and rulings manage to control the chaotic situation. It is easier to govern when things r peaceful. It took the grit of Lee Kuan Yew to iron issues out in Singapore before Goh Chok Tong took over. If LKY is a bit less forceful then, than things may not turn up the way they r in singapore now.
Before Lenin, the Russians were able to make choices on their own, and although the Czars were more indulgent in their own leisurely activities, the Russians had more freedom then after Lenin inspired revolution.
Before Mao, there was commerce, wealth, and private enterprises; after he tried to challenge the Kuomintang for the 'throne' of China, there was chaos and the weakening of China that allowed Japan to sweep into all the major cities.
Singapore could have reached this level of development with or without LKY, as there were others who were just as capable but lost out to his political methods.
Before LKY, Singapore was already a flourishing trading centre, and the Pearl of the Orient, the Center of Gravity of commerce.
After his take over of power, he was afraid of talented personalities that cannot accept his politics; and those whom he felt to be a threat were political destroyed or sent to far away postings - (reference: David Marshall assignment as Singapore's Ambassador to France).
Now his Ruling Party is complaining about the serious lack of talent in Singapore.
You seem to contradict your own position concerning strong leadership.
To NathanG5. I am not against help to be given to Iraqis. I am against American for being unilateralism. I am against some of the policies they they had made and I hope people r more aware of its action critically and hopefully, will act as a deterent when US try to act unilateralism. US is unlike Iraq, it should be civilised and diplomatic. If such a powerful force go around in a blaind rampage, then it only act fuel to the flames of chaos.
If you can view the necessity of a strong leader in Saddam Hussein, to bring prosperity to Iraq, who have extreme tendencies to work unilaterally; why do you object the strong leadership of the USA in acting unilaterally to bring peace and order to a New World being threatened by Militant Islamic Fundamentalism ?
Did the Singapore Government decided wrongly to support USA in its supposed acts of rampage in Iraq, or is your view more correct than the judgment of GCT, who surely must have consulted LKY ? -
Atobe
i am unable to quote ur post..something is wrong wif the forum?
Atobe some mistake in ur post..
before Hitler there was World War I..it is not tat peaceful..WW1 was circle around Germany
n abt China become weak after the communist challenge KMT for the Throne..
China did become weak..but not becos of the communist...its the KMT Warlords fighting among themselve(tis happen before the communist emerge) n during WWII CCP n KMT cooperate to fight against the Jap..
so China was oredi weak even before Mao emerge..the blame is to KMT.. -
So far so good, no problem in quoting your post.Originally posted by NathanG5:Atobe
i am unable to quote ur post..something is wrong wif the forum?
Atobe some mistake in ur post..
before Hitler there was World War I..it is not tat peaceful..WW1 was circle around Germany
n abt China become weak after the communist challenge KMT for the Throne..
China did become weak..but not becos of the communist...its the KMT Warlords fighting among themselve(tis happen before the communist emerge) n during WWII CCP n KMT cooperate to fight against the Jap..
so China was oredi weak even before Mao emerge..the blame is to KMT..
Many thanks NathanG5, but between WW-1 and WW-2, there was some relative calm for about at least twenty odd years; and although economic depression set in prior to the outbreak of WW-2, the political and individual freedom was at a higher level even during this period of economic hardship.
China was weak even before KMT took over political control of China, with the weakness caused by an inefficient Empress Dowager and a kid Emperor.
Weakness did not prevent personal freedom and economic activities.
At least during the period before Hitler in Germany, and Mao in China, the citizens in each country enjoyed more personal freedom, economic activities, and some level of prosperity, then when these famous individuals took over political power.
Although, Hitler raised the prestige of Germany, but it came at great disruption to economic life, with the drain on German manpower and finance in the many military campaigns all around Europe, across the English Channel, into Norway and Russia, into Northern Africa, the Middle-east, the Mediteranean shores, and projecting into North and South Atlantic.
While Mao brought calm to China, economic activities and ownerships were nationalised and made communal. Personal freedom to travel within the country were removed, and personal choices were restricted to the extent of the number of child to be born is dictated by the State. The famed Chinese entrepreneurial spirit was doused, productivity dropped, and along with it personal wealth and standards of living.
Let us not kid ourselves that the quality of life can improve when dictatorships take over any country; a high price will have to be paid when dictators make grand errors of judgment. -
Bang! You have shot yourself in the foot again, the one of many self inflicted bulletholes you have already given yourself. Maybe you would find a automatic weapon more useful?Originally posted by stupidissmart:To Toady
Wat r u doing ? Aren't u just attacking me without any elaboration again ? After wat u have all said, I am still left bewildered what are the things that I have written wrongly. Only tis time u try to sounds more "educated", slightly less emotional and hone on the english.
Since u have written such a list down, lets go down one by one
I must be right
Nope, I believe I am right. If u yourself don't even believe u r right, then wat r u arguing for ?
Find whatever that appears to support my case, no matter how weak
Now I really need clarification from u about tis. Which case I have argued r weak ? And I thought tat is wat all argument r meant to do, find all possible support for me to present my case. If it appears weak to u, it may not be so to others. Then wat do u normally do during a difference in opinions, don't present anything or slack ?
Make sweeping statements
Please give me an example. I think u probably mis-interprete me. The "sweeping statement" I have made r showing how absurb some other fellow in the forum is . If he say something I do not agree, wat better way to show it then portraying his argument by looking from a different perspective.
Respond to reasoned, logical rebuttals with emotional outbursts and shady logic and improbbable examples.
I guess u probably hate the metaphors I am always using, like the school bully etc. I agree I tend to be emotional at certain periods, however all the things I have written is not without logic in it. On the other hand, if u write something without any emotional ingredient in it, it probably sounds like a technical report. I am not writing a news article please.
I do not want to be too naggy and get on everybody's nerve. Basically, am I the only one tat commits the 6 Toady commandments u have listed ? I believe even old soldiers like Atobe also commit such "sins" listed by u from time to time. Are u really free from all of it ? Is it something really undesirable ?
If you can still be "bewildered" by the things you are in error with, and at this point after people have so completely and totally refuted your points. I conclude that you are quite beyond reason, and hence belong more in Hougang Chalet then in Speakers Corner. I'm sure your views/product of a malfunctioning mind will be more accepted there.
What's rather bewildering, and amazing at the same, is your amazing ability to make flawed statement after statement, without showing any ability to wake up to reason whatsoever, and still some how contuine on despite all the facts that have pulverized whatever your case was, not that it is a great loss anyway. Your "views" and "arguments" (should it even be called that?) have gone through so many bizzare permutations and illogical leaps and associations one wonders if you actually even bother with logic.
And of course, you still don't get it do you (not that I expected much from von ilk anyway)? You have just proved every one of my points by your most recent posts, which while learning somewhat from your logical errors on the past, does little to address the glarring errors in your overall reasoning and simple minded, bull headed approach towards such complex topics like world events.
Sadly, your "it's my way or the highway" approach is hardly impressing anybody.
And whoever that mysterious Toady is, prehaps you refer to your father? That probably a more apt and apporiate candidate, should eugenics have anything to do with your ability to reason properly. Thank you but this is a forum for rhyme and reason and resorting to infantile name without reason calling does not hold water at all.
This is getting interesting, I await your next shoot-yourself-in-the-foot reply. -
well..i believe tat without those dictators...event wont change..n event dun change..nothing change..although we dun c the topple of Communist China..but still there is a change of leadership(still consider a change event? after the cultural revolution?)Originally posted by Atobe:So far so good, no problem in quoting your post.
Many thanks NathanG5, but between WW-1 and WW-2, there was some relative calm for about at least twenty odd years; and although economic depression set in prior to the outbreak of WW-2, the political and individual freedom was at a higher level even during this period of economic hardship.
China was weak even before KMT took over political control of China, with the weakness caused by an inefficient Empress Dowager and a kid Emperor.
Weakness did not prevent personal freedom and economic activities.
At least during the period before Hitler in Germany, and Mao in China, the citizens in each country enjoyed more personal freedom, economic activities, and some level of prosperity, then when these famous individuals took over political power.
Although, Hitler raised the prestige of Germany, but it came at great disruption to economic life, with the drain on German manpower and finance in the many military campaigns all around Europe, across the English Channel, into Norway and Russia, into Northern Africa, the Middle-east, the Mediteranean shores, and projecting into North and South Atlantic.
While Mao brought calm to China, economic activities and ownerships were nationalised and made communal. Personal freedom to travel within the country were removed, and personal choices were restricted to the extent of the number of child to be born is dictated by the State. The famed Chinese entrepreneurial spirit was doused, productivity dropped, and along with it personal wealth and standards of living.
Let us not kid ourselves that the quality of life can improve when dictatorships take over any country; a high price will have to be paid when dictators make grand errors of judgment.
i always consider Mao as a dictator..n Deng XiaoPing as a saviour..
n i also blame Sun Yat Sun..for not being strong in will enuff..n too stubborn at time.. -
I do not understand why u cannot see the pages from the reference I have given. I try it myself by copying the whole line and sticking on top, at the address line, and it work fine. I guess more people outside should try and tell me the result.
So u rather believe in the inspectors 10 years ago and not the inspectors currently appointed. I stand by them decision to choose a more moderate inspector for the task of arm inspectors of Iraq. As u have said, he "prefer to remain neutral and non-commital in carrying out his tasks and responsibilities, as he is a trained diplomat and not an Investigator. "
Of course they have to choose a neutral and rational person for such an important role as the investigator isn't it ? Don't tell me they should appoint a pro war, pro america inspector for the task ? When weopons aren't find, u began to doubt the credibility of UN tat choose its candidate, and the credibility of the person itself. BTW, he is not alone in the task either, there are many people, up to hundreds in the search of the weopons. Are all of them worthless to u too ?
As I have said, people r already biased tat they have weopons before the checks. When they found none, they just cannot accept that fact. Why can't they believe they do not have it in the first place.
Sending me tons of reference is tiring for everybody here... I hope u have the patient to extract the cream of the reference u have and write it down, then told me where u get the references from. I can come up with 100 references making u hunt and read for ages. I guess this is what u normally do, since most people, unless the very interested, won't read it anyway. And the references may only contained a line or 2 which u r interested in. Please come up with the crux of the references u have given please.
Why one person account is NOT important ? Lets put it this way. U can get strange account on how people r prosecuted in Singapore from PAP too. They said something about Yao Chow Tong, books banned etc etc, interesting topics in sgforums then. U want a bad and terrifying account about singapore ? Find Tang Liang Hong and Chee Soon Juan. They can said how they r being sued, how their family break up under PAP, how unfair they have been treated. But how is the general life in Singapore then ?
""""
Maybe I try to understand your story this way - Ah Seng (a bully) stood and watched, while his bully friends acted on his instructions and hijacked some classroom chairs, and started to beat up and injure the other students in his Class. When the Class Monitor walked in, Ah Seng and his friends ran into a different Class with a bigger bully named Ah Beng. The Class Monitor asked Ah Beng to surrender Ah Seng and his friends, but Ah Beng challenged the Class Monitor to enter the Classroom if he had the guts, or show any proof. Not realising that the Class Monitor had a black belt, Ah Beng and Ah Seng with their gang started to beat the Class Monitor when he accepted the challenge by walking in. When Ah Beng, Ah Seng and their gang got beaten up so badly, the remaining bullies very obediently started to talk about Ah Seng's instructions.
""""
Well, according to the story u have said about the bully, I find it rather interesting. U find it fair for the class monitor to go inside and beat up everyone, just because he has a black belt ? If I was the parent of tat monitor, I will be very dissappointed as he is no different from Ah Seng, solving problems by resorting to violence. Wat is the best action to do ? Find the class teacher. Find the Discipline master. Surely they will act fairly and punish the ones involved. I guess if someone killed your family members, u will take a knife and chop him too isn't it ? I guess all people now should brush up their kung fu skill as no one respect law system now.
Is it any different for Iraq war. Is french fries still called french fries in US now ? I thought america is saying they r stubborn, muddle headed etc, and decrease trading with them. I bet their relationship is still sour. Malaysia condem attack, then wat happened ? Visa is not granted even to students then. America also reduce trade ties with them. Australia support America after Bali blast. America so happy to have him for ally tat he support him for attacking countries they desired to prevent further loss in their lives. In other words, he is actually supporting himself for attacking Iraq.
The case is different for ISD case. Declaring war on countires is the same as prosecuting JI to death before any hearing and investigation. Calling them for investigation is the same as bringing in arms inspectors. They r finding out if he is guilty before charging them, prosecuting them.
Very interesting, where do u get tat info about driving trucks with dollars and gold from ? U must really send me tis reference. I personally thought he nearly dies in an air missile strike before American success.
U believe Han Blix 10 years ago and not Han Blix now ? Singapore is facing a shortage of workers 10 years ago and now they are laying them off like mad. Why selectively believe ?
War is 2002-3. Inspection start end 2002. Anything before is just conclusions from tat ten years period.
Tat is funny again. If the states Koreas selling arms r respectable, legitimate countries, then why not buy it from China or America instead ? If it is "legitimate", why hide it in a trade ship ? Why create such a big hoo haa when they were caught ? One must guess tat the weopons sold r up to no good. I think rogues states in Africa are not any less deadly than Middle East terrorists group. As I have said many times, do u believe if Africa killed a lot of people with those weopons they have gathered is okay, while to middle East is WRONG. I ask AGAIN. IS lives of African any lesser to those in other parts of the world ? Or r u gonna say again the average Africa r foolish and desereve to die ?
I got it now, SO u think CAR BOMBS r weopons of Mass Destruction ? If tat is the case, then Indonesia has TONs of them. And Australia just TAUGHT everyone, with their recent broadcast on how to make CAR BOMBs using domestic products obtainable in supermarkets. I guess america used to have a website on how to make them too. I guess all supermarkets r potential storage for WMD too then. Frankly, car bombs just need fertilizer and strong acid such as drain decloggers to work.
""""
If this is not foolishness, what else can we describe the mind of the average Iraqi ?
""""
""""
If despite the tough laws that the Singapore Government has introduced, and the dedicated service of the Singapore Home Team and the SAF, who will be responsible if all Singaporeans refused to co-operate with the Singapore Government ?
What if Singaporeans are not afraid of the tough response from the Government, and we decide to agitate, demonstrate, and fight with the Singapore Riot Police in the streets - (just like the South Koreans and Taiwanese and the Hongkongers) ?
Who will be responsible for the lawlessness then ?
""""
I am trying to interprete your above statement. U said Iraq is foolish. Why ? U give example of people "agitate, demostrate and fight with riot police" as an example. The last sentence u implied tat it is the fault of the citizen, thus linking to the explanation why u said they r foolish. Is my interpretation correct ?
If so, this will be my reply.
Okie, only Singapore and a handful of small states don't have demonstration. All the other parts of the world have some to a certain extent. So are singaporean the only smart ones while the rest of the world r foolish on your terms ? R we really smarter than Koreans, Hong Kongers and Taiwanese ? America do have their share of demostration too. They must be pretty dumb too.
How do u know they r not coorperating with US ? Tis is quoted from u again
"""
If average Iraqi People love Saddam Hussein, why were they so relieved at the arrival of the US led Coalition Forces into the various major cities of Iraq ?
There were crowds rejoicing at the toppling of Saddam HusseinÂ’s statues, there were vulgar acts of insults to Saddam HusseinÂ’s photo images.
"""
Tat is their initial reaction after Saddam rule. Now US has rule for almost 1/2 a year, how is Iraq response now ? Wat do u mean they r not coorperating with US ? Read below from u again.
""""
shows that the general population are accepting the reality of the situation and co-operating with the US led Coalition Force. It is the DIEHARD Saddam Loyalist and foreign elements fighting the US led forces.
""""
U here say MAJORITY r coorperating too isn't it ? Only left a few MINORITY tat spoils things. Now things go wrong, u said
""""
If this is not foolishness, what else can we describe the mind of the average Iraqi ?
""""
Iraq can't please American.
Freedom and liberty can not come hastily for any nation. It takes years of peace and education for a country to cultivate such state. If it is not for those strong rulers, situation may still be chaotic.
China : Before Mao, they r in domestic war between Kuo Min Tang and Kong Cang Tang, also after WW2 with much destruction from Japanese to almost all infrastructure. Mao did not start the domestic war, it started after Sun Yat Sen death.
""
Did you get your time line correct and place correct ?
""
Before LKY, singapore has no water, no money, no resources, no land, no army, nothing. It only have multi racial and poor people with bad housing and communists problem. Does the name "Pearl of the Orient, the Center of Gravity of commerce" sounds tat IMPORTANT then ?
Did u get your priorities right ?
Country should not be interfering other countries affair. We prefer to be in a country where we, citizens rule our own countries. As I have said, your notion of peace and freedom cannot applied to Iraq, not yet. This need many years of peace and education for them to gradually attained such a state. And according to u too, Iraq is considered a developed country with gradually increasing level of education. Why attack them now and spoil everything ? read below again.
""
Like most developed countries in the Middle East, their population will have at least ten percent being educated up to tertiary levels, and at least forty percent with high and middle school education, and another forty percent having at least primary education.
""
I support singapore decision. tat is very wise indeed. I rather America giving us the carrot than the stick. But deep inside me, I despise America for comminting such disgraceful acts. -
I do not understand why u cannot see the pages from the reference I have given. I try it myself by copying the whole line and sticking on top, at the address line, and it work fine. I guess more people outside should try and tell me the result.
So u rather believe in the inspectors 10 years ago and not the inspectors currently appointed. I stand by them decision to choose a more moderate inspector for the task of arm inspectors of Iraq. As u have said, he "prefer to remain neutral and non-commital in carrying out his tasks and responsibilities, as he is a trained diplomat and not an Investigator. "
Of course they have to choose a neutral and rational person for such an important role as the investigator isn't it ? Don't tell me they should appoint a pro war, pro america inspector for the task ? When weopons aren't find, u began to doubt the credibility of UN tat choose its candidate, and the credibility of the person itself. BTW, he is not alone in the task either, there are many people, up to hundreds in the search of the weopons. Are all of them worthless to u too ?
As I have said, people r already biased tat they have weopons before the checks. When they found none, they just cannot accept that fact. Why can't they believe they do not have it in the first place.
Sending me tons of reference is tiring for everybody here... I hope u have the patient to extract the cream of the reference u have and write it down, then told me where u get the references from. I can come up with 100 references making u hunt and read for ages. I guess this is what u normally do, since most people, unless the very interested, won't read it anyway. And the references may only contained a line or 2 which u r interested in. Please come up with the crux of the references u have given please.
Why one person account is NOT important ? Lets put it this way. U can get strange account on how people r prosecuted in Singapore from PAP too. They said something about Yao Chow Tong, books banned etc etc, interesting topics in sgforums then. U want a bad and terrifying account about singapore ? Find Tang Liang Hong and Chee Soon Juan. They can said how they r being sued, how their family break up under PAP, how unfair they have been treated. But how is the general life in Singapore then ?
""""
Maybe I try to understand your story this way - Ah Seng (a bully) stood and watched, while his bully friends acted on his instructions and hijacked some classroom chairs, and started to beat up and injure the other students in his Class. When the Class Monitor walked in, Ah Seng and his friends ran into a different Class with a bigger bully named Ah Beng. The Class Monitor asked Ah Beng to surrender Ah Seng and his friends, but Ah Beng challenged the Class Monitor to enter the Classroom if he had the guts, or show any proof. Not realising that the Class Monitor had a black belt, Ah Beng and Ah Seng with their gang started to beat the Class Monitor when he accepted the challenge by walking in. When Ah Beng, Ah Seng and their gang got beaten up so badly, the remaining bullies very obediently started to talk about Ah Seng's instructions.
""""
Well, according to the story u have said about the bully, I find it rather interesting. U find it fair for the class monitor to go inside and beat up everyone, just because he has a black belt ? If I was the parent of tat monitor, I will be very dissappointed as he is no different from Ah Seng, solving problems by resorting to violence. Wat is the best action to do ? Find the class teacher. Find the Discipline master. Surely they will act fairly and punish the ones involved. I guess if someone killed your family members, u will take a knife and chop him too isn't it ? I guess all people now should brush up their kung fu skill as no one respect law system now.
Is it any different for Iraq war. Is french fries still called french fries in US now ? I thought america is saying they r stubborn, muddle headed etc, and decrease trading with them. I bet their relationship is still sour. Malaysia condem attack, then wat happened ? Visa is not granted even to students then. America also reduce trade ties with them. Australia support America after Bali blast. America so happy to have him for ally tat he support him for attacking countries they desired to prevent further loss in their lives. In other words, he is actually supporting himself for attacking Iraq.
The case is different for ISD case. Declaring war on countires is the same as prosecuting JI to death before any hearing and investigation. Calling them for investigation is the same as bringing in arms inspectors. They r finding out if he is guilty before charging them, prosecuting them.
Very interesting, where do u get tat info about driving trucks with dollars and gold from ? U must really send me tis reference. I personally thought he nearly dies in an air missile strike before American success.
U believe Han Blix 10 years ago and not Han Blix now ? Singapore is facing a shortage of workers 10 years ago and now they are laying them off like mad. Why selectively believe ?
War is 2002-3. Inspection start end 2002. Anything before is just conclusions from tat ten years period.
Tat is funny again. If the states Koreas selling arms r respectable, legitimate countries, then why not buy it from China or America instead ? If it is "legitimate", why hide it in a trade ship ? Why create such a big hoo haa when they were caught ? One must guess tat the weopons sold r up to no good. I think rogues states in Africa are not any less deadly than Middle East terrorists group. As I have said many times, do u believe if Africa killed a lot of people with those weopons they have gathered is okay, while to middle East is WRONG. I ask AGAIN. IS lives of African any lesser to those in other parts of the world ? Or r u gonna say again the average Africa r foolish and desereve to die ?
I got it now, SO u think CAR BOMBS r weopons of Mass Destruction ? If tat is the case, then Indonesia has TONs of them. And Australia just TAUGHT everyone, with their recent broadcast on how to make CAR BOMBs using domestic products obtainable in supermarkets. I guess america used to have a website on how to make them too. I guess all supermarkets r potential storage for WMD too then. Frankly, car bombs just need fertilizer and strong acid such as drain decloggers to work.
""""
If this is not foolishness, what else can we describe the mind of the average Iraqi ?
""""
""""
If despite the tough laws that the Singapore Government has introduced, and the dedicated service of the Singapore Home Team and the SAF, who will be responsible if all Singaporeans refused to co-operate with the Singapore Government ?
What if Singaporeans are not afraid of the tough response from the Government, and we decide to agitate, demonstrate, and fight with the Singapore Riot Police in the streets - (just like the South Koreans and Taiwanese and the Hongkongers) ?
Who will be responsible for the lawlessness then ?
""""
I am trying to interprete your above statement. U said Iraq is foolish. Why ? U give example of people "agitate, demostrate and fight with riot police" as an example. The last sentence u implied tat it is the fault of the citizen, thus linking to the explanation why u said they r foolish. Is my interpretation correct ?
If so, this will be my reply.
Okie, only Singapore and a handful of small states don't have demonstration. All the other parts of the world have some to a certain extent. So are singaporean the only smart ones while the rest of the world r foolish on your terms ? R we really smarter than Koreans, Hong Kongers and Taiwanese ? America do have their share of demostration too. They must be pretty dumb too.
How do u know they r not coorperating with US ? Tis is quoted from u again
"""
If average Iraqi People love Saddam Hussein, why were they so relieved at the arrival of the US led Coalition Forces into the various major cities of Iraq ?
There were crowds rejoicing at the toppling of Saddam HusseinÂ’s statues, there were vulgar acts of insults to Saddam HusseinÂ’s photo images.
"""
Tat is their initial reaction after Saddam rule. Now US has rule for almost 1/2 a year, how is Iraq response now ? Wat do u mean they r not coorperating with US ? Read below from u again.
""""
shows that the general population are accepting the reality of the situation and co-operating with the US led Coalition Force. It is the DIEHARD Saddam Loyalist and foreign elements fighting the US led forces.
""""
U here say MAJORITY r coorperating too isn't it ? Only left a few MINORITY tat spoils things. Now things go wrong, u said
""""
If this is not foolishness, what else can we describe the mind of the average Iraqi ?
""""
Iraq can't please American.
Freedom and liberty can not come hastily for any nation. It takes years of peace and education for a country to cultivate such state. If it is not for those strong rulers, situation may still be chaotic.
China : Before Mao, they r in domestic war between Kuo Min Tang and Kong Cang Tang, also after WW2 with much destruction from Japanese to almost all infrastructure. Mao did not start the domestic war, it started after Sun Yat Sen death.
""
Did you get your time line correct and place correct ?
""
Before LKY, singapore has no water, no money, no resources, no land, no army, nothing. It only have multi racial and poor people with bad housing and communists problem. Does the name "Pearl of the Orient, the Center of Gravity of commerce" sounds tat IMPORTANT then ?
Did u get your priorities right ?
Country should not be interfering other countries affair. We prefer to be in a country where we, citizens rule our own countries. As I have said, your notion of peace and freedom cannot applied to Iraq, not yet. This need many years of peace and education for them to gradually attained such a state. And according to u too, Iraq is considered a developed country with gradually increasing level of education. Why attack them now and spoil everything ? read below again.
""
Like most developed countries in the Middle East, their population will have at least ten percent being educated up to tertiary levels, and at least forty percent with high and middle school education, and another forty percent having at least primary education.
""
I support singapore decision. tat is very wise indeed. I rather America giving us the carrot than the stick. But deep inside me, I despise America for comminting such disgraceful acts. -
Did anyone say that Hans Blix was believeable ten years ago, or have your "stupidissmart" logic got the better of you now ?
The case is different for ISD case. Declaring war on countires is the same as prosecuting JI to death before any hearing and investigation. Calling them for investigation is the same as bringing in arms inspectors. They r finding out if he is guilty before charging them, prosecuting them. [/quote]
Can you please be a little more coherent in your writing ?
Your writing seems to show the agitation that you are experiencing and the desperate efforts to shore up your position over an issue that you have no cause to defend.
I can respect your stand if you can show a reasonable cause for it; and even if I do not agree with you, I can still accept your position which you are entitled to.
It is a disservice to yourself, if you backtrack from your original position, and chop up my response to put up a new "rojak" approach to refute my position.
Who have you got confused with now, in getting hit by an air strike ?
Very interesting, where do u get tat info about driving trucks with dollars and gold from ? U must really send me tis reference. I personally thought he nearly dies in an air missile strike before American success.
Try reading from the following site concerning the Iraqi Central Bank raid by Saddam Hussein's son:-Qusay's billion dollar bank raid
Saddam's son made massive withdrawal from the central bank hours before US attack and may have fled to Syria
Straits Times, 7 May 2003
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/iraqwar/story/0,4395,187445,00.html
U believe Han Blix 10 years ago and not Han Blix now ? Singapore is facing a shortage of workers 10 years ago and now they are laying them off like mad. Why selectively believe ?
Try a little harder, and you may be believeable to be either LKY or GCT or LHL, or some other Ministers in the Cabinet, who is so adept at "twisting facts to suit the situation".
War is 2002-3. Inspection start end 2002. Anything before is just conclusions from tat ten years period.
Nothing has been mentioned that Korea or its State Clients are respectable.
Tat is funny again. If the states Koreas selling arms r respectable, legitimate countries, then why not buy it from China or America instead ? If it is "legitimate", why hide it in a trade ship ? Why create such a big hoo haa when they were caught ?
Ask the State Clients of North Korea, why they did not buy from China or America, why ask me ?
Maybe it will help if you put fixed the URL onto your referenced sites.I do not understand why u cannot see the pages from the reference I have given. I try it myself by copying the whole line and sticking on top, at the address line, and it work fine. I guess more people outside should try and tell me the result.
The problem with human beings is that they do not wish to learn from historical records, and learn from the errors of the pasts - as your position now seem to disfavor any references for the last ten years.
So u rather believe in the inspectors 10 years ago and not the inspectors currently appointed. I stand by them decision to choose a more moderate inspector for the task of arm inspectors of Iraq. As u have said, he "prefer to remain neutral and non-commital in carrying out his tasks and responsibilities, as he is a trained diplomat and not an Investigator. "
Of course they have to choose a neutral and rational person for such an important role as the investigator isn't it ? Don't tell me they should appoint a pro war, pro america inspector for the task ? When weopons aren't find, u began to doubt the credibility of UN tat choose its candidate, and the credibility of the person itself. BTW, he is not alone in the task either, there are many people, up to hundreds in the search of the weopons. Are all of them worthless to u too ? As I have said, people r already biased tat they have weopons before the checks. When they found none, they just cannot accept that fact. Why can't they believe they do not have it in the first place.
If LKY and GCT can see through the strategics ploys used by Saddam Hussein - over the last ten years - to avoid his favorite WMD playthings being removed by the UN Inspectors, how come you are not able to accept the same picture ?
What do you think got LKY and GCT to commit Singapore to support USA in the efforts to disarm Saddam, and if not possible to remove a dangerous character from the Political Scene ?
From the various references that was offered it was intended to show the flawed report and behavior of Hans Blix, in which culminated in his being criticized for being incapable to handle the wily cunningness of Saddam Hussein.
When the United Nations named Hans Blix its chief weapons inspector, it chose a henhouse to guard the fox
http://slate.msn.com/id/2074629/"He has a long history of shrinking away from confrontations," says Kelly Motz, a research associate for the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control. "He'll definitely be more worried about the feelings of the Iraqis than his predecessors were."The problem with most Singaporean Education is that it is heavy on spoon feeding, rote learning, and regurgitating.
It was Blix who was head of the IAEA in 1990 when it gave Iraq a clean bill of health, only to be humiliated after the Gulf War when Baghdad's secret nuclear program was uncovered.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1007/p01s03-wogn.html
For your information, Hans Blix contradicted himself even in his report handed to the UN Security Council on 14 February 2003 - if you can accept the report from Hans Blix, he wrote:-
From my posted reference:
BlixÂ’s February 14 Report to UN
14 February 2003
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/14/iraq/main540681.shtml
How much, if any, is left of the Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and related proscribed items and programs? So far, UNMOVIC has not found any such weapons, only a small number of empty chemical munitions which should have been declared and destroyed.
Another matter and one of great significance, is that many proscribed weapons and items are not accounted for. To take an example, a document which Iraq provided suggested to us that some 1,000 tons of chemical agent were unaccounted for. One must not jump to the conclusion that they exist; however, that possibility is also not excluded. If they exist, they should be presented for destruction. If they do not exist, credible evidence to that effect should be presented.
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Sending me tons of reference is tiring for everybody here... I hope u have the patient to extract the cream of the reference u have and write it down, then told me where u get the references from. I can come up with 100 references making u hunt and read for ages. I guess this is what u normally do, since most people, unless the very interested, won't read it anyway. And the references may only contained a line or 2 which u r interested in. Please come up with the crux of the references u have given please.
Did you not see the efforts made in giving a short description ahead of the referenced sites ?
To pick out just the relevant points, will not do justice to the entire article which is just as relevant to reinforce the short descriptions given.