Do you like NS after so much of harm it has caused?
-
oh yah..... nvm.. we need weaklings like him to make things interesting sometimes... u know like how people in e past needed freakshows to keep themselves entertained.Originally posted by NathanG5:oic..now there is no need to wonder y this guy is still alive..
-
nah you are to harsh on him my fren..we shld give this kinda people a chance..to stand n sit on his own backbone..if we can find one in him.lolzOriginally posted by HENG@:oh yah..... nvm.. we need weaklings like him to make things interesting sometimes... u know like how people in e past needed freakshows to keep themselves entertained. -
lolOriginally posted by NathanG5:nah you are to harsh on him my fren..we shld give this kinda people a chance..to stand n sit on his own backbone..if we can find one in him.lolz -
Originally posted by wuming78:in life, there are alot of instances where we have to do things wich we dont like. we do it anyhow cos of moral obligations, societal requirements, etc.
in such a case its really up to the individual - he may curse and swear and make it an entirely bad experience, or he may take a more positive attitude towards it and try to learn from it and even eventually like it. i believe everything we do in life holds lessons for us to learn.
so wats there to like? its for u to find out. no one else can tell u tt.
i agree with you. NS is a necessity as a result of security threats. it's not meant for us to like. being adaptable humans, we are able to make the best of our 2 or 2.5 years in NS. not by choice, but because it's the only sensible thing to do. bottomline being this, since i perceive the keyword of this particular question as being 'like', my stand still remains that after taking away the security threats compelling the need for NS, i will very gladly do without. of course, the SAF also provides much needed employment especially during bleak economy. but that's another issue. -
He juz finding excuses to "siam" NS...hoping that the governement will be lenient towards NS training...but yes...the training now i believe is much more relax than b4...alot better..so...young kids...stop complaining abt NS coz you're all fcuking lucky to enter NS at this stage...btw..if not NS...i can tell you that S'pore will be the 1st country to be attack by neighbouring countries....
-
Without NS who going to protect singapore? without tough training do u tink u can protect singapore? do you really think fighting a war is as easy as just pulling trigger? so wake up your idea la...wat not so strenous.....singapore ns already vert relax.....the tekong bmtc machiam chalet like that....wat else u wan???Originally posted by dreamykite:Recently, there are serious death cases of NS men during their NS services. The news is so devastating and create worries.NS Doctors just ignore serious ill patients seeing them die instead of rescuing them. This is so unpleasant. The activities should not be so strenous and cold-hearted. -
Ok, I guess most people made the point about protecting the country. I like to offer another perspective.
I think NS teaches guys(who want to learn) alot of things.
And it is important you go in immediately with this attitude, because, frankly speaking, you do have to be the supposingly 'Siao Ons' type to appreciate what I'm going to say.
If you can work youself to sergeants, platoon sergeants, officers, you know that NS is very much like work in the real world. Even some corporals I know who are 'siao ons', get sucked into the operation office to handle quite 'high order' task. When you are there, you appreciate the chance to start training yourself to be a corporate worker, in a much more protected environment.
Sure, you can kenna extras, crazy punishments for stuff you do wrongly(or didn't do), but this is much kinder than the real world, when the simple straight punishment is a boot out of the company. Ok, in there, perhaps weekends mean everything to the average NSF, but come on, in work we have to do silly recalls and OTs too.
Of course I also understand people who already have deep commitments outside. To them, perhaps NS is a great disturbance. But then again, how many Singaporean guys start their careers at the age of 18?
Yes, I'm not gonna hide. I was officer-trained in NS. You can choose to want to accept what I've just said. -
Oh yes! I can assure you that SAF is really doing all they can and they are reviewing their TSRs and so on. Army is actually a fun place to be in. Injuries and deaths are unavoidable (except for the commando incident). No point in making a big hoo haa about something which has been going on for such a long time.Originally posted by BLIM:The recent deaths of NSmen are quite scary but we shouldn't be afraid of going to National Service. I believe that SAF are doing all the necessary precautions to prevent this kind of accidents from happening again.
No matter what, all boys who reach the age of 18 must go for NS. -
a big hoo haa?Originally posted by damz83:Oh yes! I can assure you that SAF is really doing all they can and they are reviewing their TSRs and so on. Army is actually a fun place to be in. Injuries and deaths are unavoidable (except for the commando incident). No point in making a big hoo haa about something which has been going on for such a long time.
do you know someone died because of this big hoo haa?
yes NS is fun sometime...i miss my NS days..
the thing will not be a big hoo haa if nobody die..thats the main point..
so what if it has been going a long time? how about i go around murdering some people..then i was never caught..n one day i was caught..i will tell the judge..hey it has been going for a long time liao..y a big big hoo haa over this? -
No point wasting your breath, Nathan - if they didn't get the point after all that to-and-fro on the other thread, you're just going to keep going in circles.
For anyone who wants to know what the other thread is, go here: http://smsinasia.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=59607
Back to the topic. I am assuming that dreamykite is somewhat lacking in literacy, and take the question to mean, "After the recently reported incidents in the news, do you still support the implementation of NS in Singapore?".
First, a caveat. From the accounts I have heard from friends in other units, my experience was rather unusual; Commandos tend to hold a different mindset to those of other vocations within the military. When I was called up for my vocational interview, the whole Commando concept did not quite tickle my fancy, so I made an effort to demonstrate the worst attitude possible and get rejected. When a stern-looking sergeant asked me if I wanted to be in Commandos, I asked him if I had a choice. When he said no, I said, "What the fu(k are you asking me for, then?". To my chagrin, I found out over the next two and a half years that it was exactly the attitude they were looking for.
The turning point came about six months into my service. There were a few factors involved here. First, I came to admit that come hell or high water, I was stuck there for the next two years, and that the best thing for me to do was to get as much as I could out of it. Once that happened, I started taking the job seriously and I would like to think that I made a decent effort of it until my ROD. Along the way, I was fortunate to come under the command of a few men whom I can respect to this very day. In particular, my OC and platoon sergeant were professionals in the most true sense of the word – they knew exactly what they were doing, and they did it with the minimum of fuss. I watched them closely and analysed their method of conducting themselves, and it was an enlightening experience that left me with a few characteristics I carry through to the present day.
First among these is a sense of purpose. Whatever I do, I make sure that I know exactly why I am doing it, what objectives are to be achieved and, as a result, what the most efficient way of doing it is.
This leads to the second characteristic: absolutely no bullshit. I do not promise anything I cannot deliver, but at the same time I do not sell myself short. Turning that sense upon other people, I have a good sense of when someone at work is trying to pull a fast one on me. My professional reputation is built upon these two characteristics.
Case in point: a few years ago, my company contracted a senior psychologist to customize his personality survey for us. He came up with an initial fee of $250,000. I asked him for a breakdown of his costs, and ticked off the tasks that I could perform myself. By the time we were done, his fee was $2000, and I cut the six-month process down to two months. At that point, I told him (very politely) thanks, but no thanks.
Along the way, because we were trained to think on an individual level, another thing I took away from NS was confidence in my own judgement. Rather than following the pack, I reached my own conclusions and took my own path. Case in point: in one of my undergraduate assignments, I was the only student willing to state that the lecturer had designed the experiment incorrectly. That assignment still sits in the university library as a reference piece.
One of the first lessons I learned during NS was that there is no finish line – 8-kilometre route marches went to 15 kilometres and exercises went on forever. I still carry that as an assumption in everything that I do, and more often than not it has served me well. It allows me to take the quality of my work that one step further and (ahem) in other endeavours, the ladies don’t complain about it either.
An overarching characteristic that NS has left me with is a sense of personal bearing. This encompasses a number of operating principles:
- do it right the first time
- make an honest assessment of the situation – you invariably pay the price if you try to deceive yourself or others
- know and respect the rules of engagement
- keep everything, physical and mental, in serviceable order – these will come in handy for unanticipated situations
- a gung-ho attitude doesn’t carry the day – professionalism does; don’t go shooting in all directions hoping you will hit something – instead, take your time and make all your shots count
- at the same time, I have no time for shenanigans – everybody who has worked with me has learned one thing first: fu(k with me and I’ll shit your balls out after I’ve had them for breakfast
Over the last ten years, the lessons I learned during my NS have held me in good stead. At university, they took me to the top five percent into Honours, and then to the top one percent of that group into the doctorate. At work, they have left little, if any, for my employers and colleagues to complain about. On a personal level, they have earned me friends that I can absolutely count on, because they know it goes both ways.
So in a word, the answer to the question "after the recently reported incidents in the news, do you still support the implementation of NS in Singapore?" is yes. If anyone thinks otherwise, I pity you because you have either wasted a few years of your life, or you are about to. -
Ehh...I think your experiences r too personal liao... it is good if u learn a lot of things from your NS, but there r always other who just waste their time doing sentry... Not everyone get to have such experiences...
Frankly, I think the medics in NS is a bit too... harsh compare to public doctor... I know incidents where people get a sprain or dislocated injuries and they manage to get only 3 days light duty. If they were not in NS, they could get up to weeks of light duty...
Or am I too old to the point tat the system has already changed... -
there are lessons to be derived from every experience. its up to the person to discover them.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Ehh...I think your experiences r too personal liao... it is good if u learn a lot of things from your NS, but there r always other who just waste their time doing sentry... Not everyone get to have such experiences... -
I don't know man... I think one can discover more enriching experience if he was working outside than he was performing sentry... There are lessons tat can be derive from every experiences... if u just live tis 2 years of your life doing watever u want, u still derive some lessons too...
-
its true tt he could haf been doing something else he thinks is more enriching. my point is he is serving his ns liability - like it or not. and since he has to do it, y not take it in a more positive light wif a more positive attitude, and try to learn something from it.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I don't know man... I think one can discover more enriching experience if he was working outside than he was performing sentry... There are lessons tat can be derive from every experiences... if u just live tis 2 years of your life doing watever u want, u still derive some lessons too... -
Well... there r some people with very negative experiences... I know of a guy, who is fit, confident and is a natural leader before NS. He being the guy he is, managed to go to OCS but unfortunately got permanently injured during one training. He got downgraded into something like a store keeper, and be managed by a condemn regular who keep abusing him and bullied by him. He lost his confidence and initiative then and get mixed up with the other Hokien beng there. Well... things aren't the same for him after NS...
About the title of this discusion... I believe NS is necessary for singapore. However a lot of people don't like it as they destroy part of therir lifestyles... Everyone have different experiences in NS. One very common bad experience is when one girlfriend break up wth a guy because he can't accompany him during NS.
Frankly... I thought most guys in SIngapore hate NS From tis thread it seems otherwise... -
Should one who has experienced repeated failure with male-female relations ask :
" Do you like to LOVE again after so much of harm it has caused? "
The people who manages and operate National Service are Singaporean Citizens.
It is Singapore Citizens who are holding the various posts of Officers, NCOs, and Specialists in the entire organisation of National Service - whether in the SAF, Police or the Civil Defense.
The harm that has occurred is a result of the actions of Singapore Citizens who were careless in their exuberance to execute their work, and such accidents also occur in business and industry.
If all Singapore Citizens involve with National Service take their respective role seriously - in whatever position or rank - perhaps National Service can be like a successful Corporation that allow a successful and proud environment to work in.
It will require the commitment and effort of each and every Singapore Citizen to take their oath seriously prior to entering National Service, and despite the hardships encountered during training, the Oath should not be forgotten.
Those in the First Batch of National Service in 1968, who suffered at the hands of the Israelis Advisers, still speak proudly of their experience, and of the surprising discovery of their individual abilities to overcome the challenges thrown at them.
Each successive batch of National Servicemen, after ORD, will always look back fondly to the warm comradeship, experience under the most trying conditions, and the unusual memory of a different world.
It is sad that those training and operational accidents have occurred, and these also occur in our civilian workplaces as well, but these accidents cannot be the cause for us to give up on an enterprise.
These harmful accidents should not harm our memory of success in giving us a capability to look after ourselves in strange new places, and to be able to defend ourselves if the need arises.
These accidents - in NS and in Civilian environment - should serve as wake-up calls for us to be more alert and less complacent when executing our tasks.
These accidents should make us more careful about the situation that we are in - always to be constantly alert for our own safety and also that of our buddies around us. -
i still like ns , and i thought that it was one of the funnies moments of my life
it didn't really cause much harm, look at those who died recently most are regulars, not ns men -
those who recently die are not regulars...they are NSF...Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:i still like ns , and i thought that it was one of the funnies moments of my life
it didn't really cause much harm, look at those who died recently most are regulars, not ns men -
watz thiz abt regular or nsf? r u goin 2 view their deathz differently bcoz of their svc status?Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:i still like ns , and i thought that it was one of the funnies moments of my life
it didn't really cause much harm, look at those who died recently most are regulars, not ns men -
no leh i know the indian guy, he's a reg, i think the sniper also a regOriginally posted by NathanG5:those who recently die are not regulars...they are NSF...
for the indian guy , my previous platoon sgt one of his close frens
always compare us to him tell us to be more like him, be more hardworking, see he so big size still can run
next time he tell me this, i'll tell him back that his fren die liao, from too much running, want to run run urself
i feel that its different if you are a reg
you choosed this path to walk if you die its you own fault and nobody elses -
the Indian Guardsmen is a Regular..the rest is not..Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:no leh i know the indian guy, he's a reg, i think the sniper also a reg
for the indian guy , my previous platoon sgt one of his close frens
always compare us to him tell us to be more like him, be more hardworking, see he so big size still can run
next time he tell me this, i'll tell him back that his fren die liao, from too much running, want to run run urself
i feel that its different if you are a reg
you choosed this path to walk if you die its you own fault and nobody elses
the reason of death is difference..
the sniper is not a regular...that is a confirmation..
its not what you think its whats you read now... -
Deaths and injury in the army is nothing new. Itz just that there's this recent hype about it. I'm quite sure the number of injury and deaths are no higher than b4.
There is not like or dislike just b'cos of the recent hype over injuries and deaths. NS is mandatory for all guys in S'pore like it or not. Up till now, it has been a very enriching experience for me, and i believe for many people as well. -
its great tt u haf a positive attitude towards ns!Originally posted by damz83:Deaths and injury in the army is nothing new. Itz just that there's this recent hype about it. I'm quite sure the number of injury and deaths are no higher than b4.
There is not like or dislike just b'cos of the recent hype over injuries and deaths. NS is mandatory for all guys in S'pore like it or not. Up till now, it has been a very enriching experience for me, and i believe for many people as well.
however, one death is too many in our citizen army, regardless of the reason behind it. and when the cause is mostly due to human error, den the incident becomes much more serious as it may reflect a hidden mindset or systemic fault. to find out the root cause and arrest it early is paramount. and its also good the saf is adopting a more transparent policy towards its operations. -
if u can think or read carefully...its not about the death..its about how he DIE!!Originally posted by damz83:Deaths and injury in the army is nothing new. Itz just that there's this recent hype about it. I'm quite sure the number of injury and deaths are no higher than b4.
There is not like or dislike just b'cos of the recent hype over injuries and deaths. NS is mandatory for all guys in S'pore like it or not. Up till now, it has been a very enriching experience for me, and i believe for many people as well.
its enriching for me too..but we must not lose our humanity.. -
but i'm sure quite a no. of ppl had gone thru similiar trng in d past few yrz, inclusive of d water treatment thingy... but y didn't any1 step out & bring it up when they're well aware of itz dangerz? y did they keep mum & give instructorz a false impression tt it'z a borderline safe practice tolerable 4 traineez?Originally posted by NathanG5:if u can think or read carefully...its not about the death..its about how he DIE!!
its enriching for me too..but we must not lose our humanity..