Who will pay for Mrs Lee's medi/tpt bills?
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Hi there,
while Mr. LKY remembered 'how efficient our systems are' and no airline in the world can convert a plane into a flying hospi in 2 days (I seriously doubt that, i m sure other airlines can do so, the issue is no airlines - at least in western democracies like US, Australia, Germany etc is WILLLING to do so and so quickly as if the airline is a privately owned one).
Can someone give an idea how will the bills be paid and costs incured in Diverting the SIA plane to pick SM lee be recovered...., guess mr lee's salary over the years are sufficient to pay for that right? i guess his is going to pay lah... -
Originally posted by Rob Chen:
pay with our money?
Hi there,
while Mr. LKY remembered 'how efficient our systems are' and no airline in the world can convert a plane into a flying hospi in 2 days (I[b] seriously doubt that, i m sure other airlines can do so, the issue is no airlines - at least in western democracies like US, Australia, Germany etc is WILLLING to do so and so quickly as if the airline is a privately owned one).
Can someone give an idea how will the bills be paid and costs incured in Diverting the SIA plane to pick SM lee be recovered...., guess mr lee's salary over the years are sufficient to pay for that right? i guess his is going to pay lah...
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Civil servant medical claims lor...
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Does Mrs LKY nee Madam Kua qualify to be a Civil Servant ?Originally posted by sgboy2004:Civil servant medical claims lor... -
Originally posted by Rob Chen:
Question should be asked would be - Why was a SIA Plane not sent to bring home the four Singaporeans severely burnt during the Jakarta Marriott Hotel bombing ?
Hi there,
while Mr. LKY remembered 'how efficient our systems are' and no airline in the world can convert a plane into a flying hospi in 2 days (I[b] seriously doubt that, i m sure other airlines can do so, the issue is no airlines - at least in western democracies like US, Australia, Germany etc is WILLLING to do so and so quickly as if the airline is a privately owned one).
Can someone give an idea how will the bills be paid and costs incured in Diverting the SIA plane to pick SM lee be recovered...., guess mr lee's salary over the years are sufficient to pay for that right? i guess his is going to pay lah...
[/b]
They were brought home by their own insurance arranged and paid Air Medical Evacuation. -
If i had not remembered wrongly, Singapore sent our army planes to bring them back that very night, those who needs medical care.
the article about Mrs Lee is to tell you all to appreciate the medical care here in Singapore. Imagine your family member suffer a stroke and u rush him/her to a nearby hospital only to hear :" sorry, the equipment is kept for the day. we not going to bring it out cos it's outside operating hours" den are you going to spend 12 hours worrying if he will die or wat? over here, u can check at all hours and operate immediately if you need it. so stop complaining about the cost. if you die, you can enjoy ANYTHING. Singapore has one of the best medical facilities, so stop whinning -
Unfortunately, your memory concerning the Jakarta Marriott Hotel bombing serves you inaccuratelyOriginally posted by whispery:If i had not remembered wrongly, Singapore sent our army planes to bring them back that very night, those who needs medical care.
the article about Mrs Lee is to tell you all to appreciate the medical care here in Singapore. Imagine your family member suffer a stroke and u rush him/her to a nearby hospital only to hear :" sorry, the equipment is kept for the day. we not going to bring it out cos it's outside operating hours" den are you going to spend 12 hours worrying if he will die or wat? over here, u can check at all hours and operate immediately if you need it. so stop complaining about the cost. if you die, you can enjoy ANYTHING. Singapore has one of the best medical facilities, so stop whinning
The injured were brought back by PRIVATELY arranged Medical Air Evacuation Service.
Unfortunately, your point of view do not connect with the issue at hand, and is aimed at a tangent to the thread.
Imagine if a member of your family suffer a stroke while travelling overseas, and being a LESSER Singaporean, will any help be extended to your family by the Singapore Government ?
Will a similar response be mobilised to assist your family, if caught in the same situation as had confronted SM LKY ?
That such a response had been made to assist SM during his dire moment is admirable, and most Singaporeans would have quietly accepted the efforts mobilised, and WOULD NOT have questioned about the costs involved - as it will be deemed impolite.
However, it was quite condescending of SM LKY to judge that Singaporeans " can make it " for the simplistic reason in the manner that Singaporeans concerned had responded in converting an SIA plane into a 'Flying Hospital' and bringing his beloved wife safely home in 48 hours.
A simple 'Thank You' from the same judgmental mouth, would have sufficed.
Why be judgmental of the average Singaporeans ? -
things happened because of who they are.....
if i were to be down with a stroke in london.....
can i call up the high commissioner at 2am and the brits PMO to tell the hospital to prepare to scan my brain at the dead hour at night in mid autumn.....
can i get 2 doctors and 2 nurses to get ready all the medical stuff and fly over to london in such short notice.....
can i get the technicians to install the equipment in such efficency....
can i get SIA cooperation in flying me back as soon as possible......
frankly speaking i don't think i can and i have not even factor in $$$ yet......
in my opinion, whether we can make it or not is not judge by how things work for the top echelon... it is judge by how the system operates for the average joes and janes........ -
Well said well said. The whole episode, if anything, shows how high the ivory tower our ministers live in, has become, and how that high ivory tower, has become the frog's well to them, when these same minsters have to fly back to their La-La Land because they can't accept having their privileges reduced when they're outside their well.Originally posted by kanzer:in my opinion, whether we can make it or not is not judge by how things work for the top echelon... it is judge by how the system operates for the average joes and janes........ -
Originally posted by Rob Chen:
Of course SIA will be compensated with taxpayers money lah.... but only for extra expenses incurred....but any revenue loss will not.... SIA Goodwill comes to play.... but who suffer for it..its employees...take more paycut and now someone says cannot even expect to get it back.....heh!
Hi there,
while Mr. LKY remembered 'how efficient our systems are' and no airline in the world can convert a plane into a flying hospi in 2 days (I[b] seriously doubt that, i m sure other airlines can do so, the issue is no airlines - at least in western democracies like US, Australia, Germany etc is WILLLING to do so and so quickly as if the airline is a privately owned one).
Can someone give an idea how will the bills be paid and costs incured in Diverting the SIA plane to pick SM lee be recovered...., guess mr lee's salary over the years are sufficient to pay for that right? i guess his is going to pay lah...
[/b] -
Originally posted by Rob Chen:
This statement, IMO, has caused much embarassement to many gov official. Now London's Downing St corrected SM's claim about
while Mr. LKY remembered 'how efficient our systems are' and no airline in the world can convert a plane into a flying hospi in 2 days
getting special treatment !
I am curious would Mr. LKY say 'how efficient our SAF trainings are' if one of his grandson die in a commondo POW training. Nothing hurts more if a crisis involves one of your love ones. I think Mr.LKY's experience in London has exposed the sort of "I expect special-treatment" lifestyle he and his family had enjoy for so very long.
For the sack of Singapore's future, it is time to move beyond that "Lee Family Inc" centric system. -
Hear HearOriginally posted by Atobe:Question should be asked would be - Why was a SIA Plane not sent to bring home the four Singaporeans severely burnt during the Jakarta Marriott Hotel bombing ?
They were brought home by their own insurance arranged and paid Air Medical Evacuation.
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Originally posted by Gun:This statement, IMO, has caused much embarassement to many gov official. Now London's Downing St corrected SM's claim about
getting special treatment !
I am curious would Mr. LKY say 'how efficient our SAF trainings are' if one of his grandson die in a commondo POW training. Nothing hurts more if a crisis involves one of your love ones. I think Mr.LKY's experience in London has exposed the sort of "I expect special-treatment" lifestyle he and his family had enjoy for so very long.
For the sack of Singapore's future, it is time to move beyond that "Lee Family Inc" centric system.
That quite true.. -
Sure, UK have some 'weakness' in their health system, who don't, ours are overly priced... but please don't get out of point here. We are not here to discuss weakness in UK's or Singapore's health system. Anyway, with SM lee's $$ from his Ministerial salary plus his knowledge of UK,Originally posted by whispery:If i had not remembered wrongly, Singapore sent our army planes to bring them back that very night, those who needs medical care.
the article about Mrs Lee is to tell you all to appreciate the medical care here in Singapore. Imagine your family member suffer a stroke and u rush him/her to a nearby hospital only to hear :" sorry, the equipment is kept for the day. we not going to bring it out cos it's outside operating hours" den are you going to spend 12 hours worrying if he will die or wat? over here, u can check at all hours and operate immediately if you need it. so stop complaining about the cost. if you die, you can enjoy ANYTHING. Singapore has one of the best medical facilities, so stop whinning
I guess he is just using this to make his point (shoot UK health system and promote S'pore's ),
he may not even visisted any public UK hospital at all.....he may actually just zoom straight to a high class private hospital in London to get everything done quickly, then wait for SIA and Singapore health people to arrive.... -
SM's Office now saying he will be paying for medical and transport fee..., not govt hospital or SIA,
guess that is the right and appropriate thing to do
But newspaper also mentioned/implied that discussion both inside and outside internet chatrooms prompted such a reply / statement to be made publicly ...
just wondering would that be the case (statement plus pay by SM lee) if in 80s when we have no internet .....
of course it is all in the mind, we will never know....
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good observation. This thought occurred to me too.
Well, times are different. In the past, who dare to question in the first place? It is this very reticence that encourages such actions.
Have u also noticed that the National newspapers are also very quiet about it? I wonder if anyone wrote to STForum. And if they did, I wonder about the fate of those letters.
Like u, I am also thankful for the Internet. -
I don't c any letters questioning 'who pay' in ST forum - most likely 'cut' by those editors which i heard when senior enough, needs to be 'approved' by someone / somegroup ....Originally posted by LoveNLight:good observation. This thought occurred to me too.
Well, times are different. In the past, who dare to question in the first place? It is this very reticence that encourages such actions.
Have u also noticed that the National newspapers are also very quiet about it? I wonder if anyone wrote to STForum. And if they did, I wonder about the fate of those letters.
Like u, I am also thankful for the Internet.
just look at today's papers (7 Nov), nearly 1 page of letters comdemning those that started questioning who would pay?
the weird thing is that, i don't c ST forum publishing even 1 "letter of questioning" , but yet published so many that condemning those who even question... , wonder where those people condemning those that question got their 'target letter' from??? definitely not ST Forum... -
Most Singaporeans would have willingly and perhaps grudgingly accepted the passing of the fact that the costs will be absorbed by the Government (aka Tax Payers), to bring Mrs Lee back to Singapore.
Unfortunately, it probably irks and chaff Singaporeans in the manner that SM LKY relate his experience, and making judgment of Singaporean's ability to survive due to the manner in which the response was made to bring his wife home, and for his wrong and premature judgment in comparing the Singapore Health System to that of the Public Health System in UK - which turned out wrongly.
Many Singaporeans had to endure the waiting at most Hospitals in Singapore, despite the emergencies.
It is not amazing to see the same UK Public Hospital attitudes being practised in a milder form in Singapore towards LESSER Singaporeans at A&E Wards.
It was ridiculous to compare the CT Scanning Department in UK with that of Singapore, especially when the cost of labor to mann the equipment 24 hours will be much higher in UK than in Singapore.
One can only wonder if even the CT Scanning service will be made available 24 hours in Singapore to an average Singaporean stroke patient (let alone a LESSER Singaporean in C Class Ward) .
It was not the cost that was the primary concern, but the reality of the situation in which two different standard of treatment are available to Singaporeans - one to the Elite, and the other to LESSER Singaporeans.
In the Singapore System, has anyone ever wonder if it is the EIGHTY PERCENT LESSER SINGAPOREANS supporting the TWENTY PERCENT ELITE in Singapore ?
No wonder the book 'Animal Farm' was banned from circulation during the early days of Singapore's Political History. -
[the weird thing is that, i don't c ST forum publishing even 1 "letter of questioning" , but yet published so many that condemning those who even question... , wonder where those people condemning those that question got their 'target letter' from??? definitely not ST Forum...
Well, I'm surprised to think that there's a group of professional who are dedicated to writing such letters to the forum...and there must be a secret coding to ensure it's publication.
anyway, isn't the same here? Although i'm a newbie here, I've detected serveral letters of such nature throughout the posts...talk about freedom of speech...dun play play okie -
i am deeply disappointed with the response in the ST forums from some of the people....
one even commented that let's not be small minded, etc even an expat joined in....
those that it is ok for him to use public funds in this issue has missed an important point.... the money is not the issue here. it is the principle.
the first generation leaders has done alot to make our system work..... it has significantly reduced corruption and so on..... so if same person who made the system work destroys the system, then as a nation, we are finished.... there must be checks and balances...... if because he is lky and the tax payers must foot the bill, then he will set a precedent . a very bad precedent...... corruption will once again crept into our system again..... so this is the cruz of the issue here...... the amount of money spent by tax payers is peanuts considered the damage done. -
Does it amount to corruption, if the Government is to pay for the total costs incurred to bring the wife of SM LKY back to Singapore ?
No, it is not corruption, definitely not.
She is afterall the wife of an important founding father of Singapore, one amongst those in the first generation.
In the employment contract of some of our Senior Civil Servants, who began their career from the early days, who opt for a Pension Scheme, the wife (never the husband) of a Civil Servant is also covered for all Medical Expenses.
Such a generous pension scheme extend into their old age, long after their retirement.
However, it will be doubtful if the Pension Scheme will ever include the cost to cover such a scale of converting a plane (belonging to a national carrier) into a 'flying hospital', and including the costs of senior specialists to be flown out of Singapore to accompany the patient or his wife back home for treatment.
Being such a high profile public figure, the extra-ordinary efforts to provide extra-ordinary help - (to assist SM LKY in his moment of personal crisis that has befallen his most beloved Life Companion) - seems beyond the customary reality of most LESSER SINGAPOREAN.
Such extra-ordinary personal assistance that has been mobilised will never be enjoyed by most Singaporeans, who have recently experienced nothing but bad news that has severly affected their sense of security for the future of themselves and their family.
Everyone has a loved one, but not everyone will be able to enjoy the privilege of having such efforts and facilities being mobilised to assist in a personal crisis.
Singaporeans will be proud not only to have the capacity to pay for the entire cost from the Government Operating Budget Surplus, but for the simple fact that we have the local expertise to mobilise the efforts in such a scale and at such a short notice, just to attend to SM LKY's personal crisis.
It shows that as Singaporeans, we have the talent in many individuals in Singapore that SM LKY cannot see, and who constantly claim that Singapore lack the talent and need foreign ones to assist us - and the PAP to constantly nanny over us. -
Totally agree, having made contributions in earlier days does not mean anyone can used past credit as excuse to do 'incorrect' / 'questionable' things now. Otherwise our system which SM lee worked hard to set up will be heading towards trouble....Originally posted by kanzer:i am deeply disappointed with the response in the ST forums from some of the people....
one even commented that let's not be small minded, etc even an expat joined in....
those that it is ok for him to use public funds in this issue has missed an important point.... the money is not the issue here. it is the principle.
the first generation leaders has done alot to make our system work..... it has significantly reduced corruption and so on..... so if same person who made the system work destroys the system, then as a nation, we are finished.... there must be checks and balances...... if because he is lky and the tax payers must foot the bill, then he will set a precedent . a very bad precedent...... corruption will once again crept into our system again..... so this is the cruz of the issue here...... the amount of money spent by tax payers is peanuts considered the damage done.
Otherwise, a policeman can just say i catch criminals b4 for so many years for Singapore, now after i committed a crime myself and got 'found out', i ought to be released without charges and walk away 'scot-free'.
This is the reason why SM lee acted Honorably and pay the expenses, he know past credits cannot excuse current 'fault's, he MUST set the best example and he did it...... good on him!! -
just asking..
if it was me who collapsed, would SIA suddenly do what they did?
what a country is, is always seen by what it does for the common man..
what a country does for the head honcho and his family is never representative... -
Hmm... if something happened to PM Goh's wife when she was overseas, I think the treatment will be the same too. If the same thing happened to George Bush's wife while they r overseas, I guess the America themselves will make the same arrangement. If Bush's wife got stroke while they r in Bali visit, I think they r prepared to send her out of country through a jumbo jet too. Politician & their spouse r important people whose lives must be protected while they r in office bah. LKY is still a minister isn't it ?
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With great powers come great responsibility.