a disgrunted singaporean....read first b4 giving comments..
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Locked up under various rules meant to silence them, forced into submission by the various lawsuits which have bankrupted them, or decided to this country to pre-empt a the political sledgehammer that was about to fall on them.Originally posted by cooleo:"Dude, where are the German Shephards that really know how to 'bite'?"
I find your remark that the writer of the original email as a Singapore who "cannot make it" as sanctimonious and arrogant. You do not even know the full story behind the original writer's predicament, yet you waste no time in condemning this person as a failure.
You are the very example of a Singaporean who has made Singapore such an unbearable place for many to live in, one who is judgemental, lacks compassion for those who are worse off and simply dismiss them as unable to hack it.
As for your attack on leilan84, as well as your belief and faith in the party line without question, I suppose it just shows your level of maturity. -
For someone who conjures up so much "bark" about those who "bark" rather than act, it seems you have a long way to go....Originally posted by cooleo:You sound like a little kid who was born in the year of 1984. Maybe i can give u a title if u want.....'aspiring Singapore Shephard'?
Everyone here has raised issues worthy of discussion. That is the purpose of this forum. It's ppl like you who come out blazing "i'm right and you're wrong so shut up and listen" who would rather pour cold water down our throats then provide any form of reason.
Other than calling us and the writer pathetic and liking us to meek german shephards, what have you offered?
Simply...nothing. -
Nobody is saying we should vote for the opposition en-masse, nor claim that the opposition are brilliant political leaders. What we are doing is pointing out where the government is not doing right, and many many suggestions to rectify them have been posted here, if you could be bothered to come out from your well long enough to look for them. Or are you afraid that it might destroy your pompous self-serving belief that we're all just a bunch of whiners who complain and don't offer solutions?Originally posted by cooleo:Very detailed explaination we have from u, but after all the twists and turns, we need to come to the most important part, why should i vote for a bunch of jokers who could turn out to be worse than the PAP just because there is minor discontent with the PAP?
As for your assumption of my limited knowledge, you are entitled to 'bark' all u want, after all you are just a German Shephard who knows how to 'bark' with some rhythmic tempo unlike most German Shephards.
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Thats tantamout to shouting your point of view, covering your ears and shouting "LA-LA-LA" when the other side tries to deliver his.
Real grown up...
And pray tell, what is a man of pent up frustration and self-proclaimed 'ample knowledge' doing in the forum, speaking out under a pen name?
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And pray tell, even if we do take the prescribed course of action, and run for political office as an oppostion or independent candidate, how much of a fair fight can we expect? In case you haven't noticed, the local media gives short shrift to the oppostion, if it could be bothered with them at all. And when it does give them the little time, its usually restricted to a) sound bite which edits most of the substance out, b) take their 10-second quote out of context so a minister can give a detailed 10 minute reply to it or c) to paint them in a negative light.
Gee, I wonder if the fact that the ownership of the media leads directly back to the government-owned holding company, or if the face that the guillotine of having its licence revoked at anytime for being out of line has anything to do with it? -
Firstly, i did not use 'can't make it' on the Singaporean who wrote the email depicting his / her financial difficulties. Are the German Shephards suffering from delusions? My main grouse with this Singaporean is the fact that he / she dares to write and send the email out, then hides under a pen name.
Secondly, it is laughable that the German Shephards are trying to digress to other aspects instead of facing the all important question. Rather feeble attempts to say the least. But talk is cheap, and i will repeat it. Why do i have to commend or even agree with a pack of German Shephards that hide at the comfort of their homes and blast away at the system without producing any action? My toes are laffing away at the poor arguments and not a few delusions from some of the German Shephards.
This shall be my last posting here as i am frankly speaking, quite bored with the 'No action talk only' German Shephards. -
CX rebutted you point-by-point, perhaps you should try to do the same rather than stick your childish labels on us and call us your sanctimonious names?Originally posted by cooleo:Very detailed explaination we have from u, but after all the twists and turns, we need to come to the most important part, why should i vote for a bunch of jokers who could turn out to be worse than the PAP just because there is minor discontent with the PAP?
Rather then dismiss them as "twists and turns", of which they are not.
Or are you not man enough to do that, preferring to cover your ears and shout "LA-LA-LA" -
hahahaha... good arguements, sheeps, n barkers... sounds like PM Goh's stayers n quiters , heartlander n cosmopolitian. All classification. To me i respect everyone's views n i would not say who is right or wrong or who should take action because all of you are right. But the very sad fact we are talking here in the forum n going to speakers corner to talk suggest the fact ... we are very pathetic. To me.. thats life u know... ur either rich or ur either serving the rich.
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Really, what do you call the following quote from you in response to the original posting then?Originally posted by cooleo:Firstly, i did not use 'can't make it' on the Singaporean who wrote the email depicting his / her financial difficulties.
"One, I did not try to potray myself as a pathetic Singaporean who can barely make ends meet by emailing everyone about it."Originally posted by cooleo:
Sure or not? Or it is because we are making sense, and you're getting out before 1) you've to admit defeat and 2) you wake up and realise you're not in the La-La Land you'd like to think you're in?
This shall be my last posting here as i am frankly speaking, quite bored with the 'No action talk only' German Shephards.
Something about getting out of the kitchen because you can't take the heat?
Just a question, what do you call people who do not dare to stand up and speak out about what they feel? German Sheperds? At least we stand up behind those views we post, you're not even man enough to do that, preferring the comfort of the little hole you came from. What does that make you? A garden slug? -
Wow, quite an exchange for a 36 hour absence.Originally posted by cooleo:Firstly, i did not use 'can't make it' on the Singaporean who wrote the email depicting his / her financial difficulties. Are the German Shephards suffering from delusions? My main grouse with this Singaporean is the fact that he / she dares to write and send the email out, then hides under a pen name.
Secondly, it is laughable that the German Shephards are trying to digress to other aspects instead of facing the all important question. Rather feeble attempts to say the least. But talk is cheap, and i will repeat it. Why do i have to commend or even agree with a pack of German Shephards that hide at the comfort of their homes and blast away at the system without producing any action? My toes are laffing away at the poor arguments and not a few delusions from some of the German Shephards.
This shall be my last posting here as i am frankly speaking, quite bored with the 'No action talk only' German Shephards.
If all of us posting in this forums are hiding behind pen names, one can only wonder what pen name is 'cooleo' ?
A 'leo' that 'coo' ? To whose music ?
From the negative words directed at all the critics of the Ruling Party here, it is quite obvious that this 'leo' does not 'roar' but merely 'coo' to the Master's Voice.
'German Shephards' ?
I guess we are smarter than those dogs that run, fetch and obey at the Master's directions, similar to 'circus leos' trained to 'coo' ?
We have quite an array of intelligent personalities, judging by the creative pen names displayed, but hardly anyone claiming to be 'German Shephards' ?
Incidentally, the correct spelling should be 'German Shepherds' .
Did anyone who post a critique claim also to be a 'Leader' ?
It is pathetic that there are Singaporeans, who are willing to hang on with the 'devil' that they are familiar with - (for all the comfort that has been padded) - then to face a new world with new challenges of a better tomorrow.
If Taiwan is a case in point, breaking loose from the tight grip of the Ruling Party - (the Kuomintang controlled by the First Family of Chiang Kai-shek, who finally ran out of capable successors) - will allow a similar experience of FREEDOM from Government Controls to every aspects of the Citizen's Life.
A similar case in point is the experience of South Korea, in which the strong arm rule of the late President Park Jung Hee was broken, when he was assassinated; and Democracy evolving into South Korean society after a laborious start to overcome a Military Dictatorial system.
If the Opposition Members are fools, it will mean that they are malleable and can be influenced quite easily - as it seems to be the case in which Dr Chee has somehow taken over the SDP from Mr Chiam See Tong - (was Mr Chiam a fool too, for what happened ? ) .
Why reject the opportunity of taking over an Opposition Party, if the Leader seems to be such a person below one's high standards, and if the Party are but a bunch of fools ?
Surely a luminous bearing name of a 'Leo' will be suitable and daring enough to take on the mantle, instead of being coy and preferring to take the safer route of a carpet beggar ? -
Small wonder the ruling party breeds supporters like dear cooleo here, when rather than accept those who do not agree with them as part of Singapore and as Singaporeans, and listen to their voices like a true government who speaks for its people should, they prefer to stick childish, judgemental labels and attempt to shout them down with their equivalent of a boom-box. Or better yet, unleash the attack dogs.Originally posted by parkour:sheeps, n barkers... sounds like PM Goh's stayers n quiters , heartlander n cosmopolitian. All classification.
Makes on wonder who's more canine-like in behaviour.
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bah... sick of arrogant arsewipes who think there are easy solutions to everything and just criticises everyone else who slightly dents his pre-conceived notions cos he's so secure in embracing them...
if he wants to be narrow and bigoted, let him be... i can't bear to talk to people who think they know all the right answers.
but Atobe, the comparisons u made may not be valid... cos as with all comparisons, they are limited by the context. they seem apt up to a point... then u find that u're basically comparing apples and oranges...
taiwan and s. korea are very different societies from... the only thing they might have in common is that they have people who give a crap.
i guess the thing for Sg is to actually get pple to start caring again! that freakshow was a personification of all that has gone wrong with the pple of this country... apathy, the delusion that all opposition figures are clowns and not capable of anything positive, the blind faith that the gov't has the monopoly on 'constructive' views and speaks on behalf of everybody, that the pple have no right to comment because they are not capable of 'constructive' views...
and the list goes on! the root of it? apathy, indifference and pure arrogance. ignorant and PROUD of it!
the horrors! it would've been fine if they were ignorant and open, but NO! they're ignorant and bigoted! fed on pro-govt discourses all their lives and blind to any alternative! blind to the prospect that change and alternatives exists and starts with openness and public discussion...
no wonder many are quitting on Sg... because once they become aware of such poisonous indifference, what else is there left to stay for?
Sg is building a business, not a home. it is run as an administrative state, not a nation. pple are taught to be drones, not citizens and individuals.
am i overly negative? of course i am!
but does anyone see an alternative? or am i to shut up cos i'm not offering anything 'constructive'? -
HAHA, a young pappies barking away, ever loyal to his master...Originally posted by cooleo:Very detailed explaination we have from u, but after all the twists and turns, we need to come to the most important part, why should i vote for a bunch of jokers who could turn out to be worse than the PAP just because there is minor discontent with the PAP?
your obivous lack of knowledge of the underhand tactics used by the pappies have severely hampered your ability to differentiate between who is right and who is wrong...
but then again, you would most probably have been brainwashed till you got nothing but praise for your master...
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How sad...he runs the 100m but tumbles at the 85 and excuses himself to the loo...Originally posted by cooleo:My toes are laffing away at the poor arguments and not a few delusions from some of the German Shephards.
This shall be my last posting here as i am frankly speaking, quite bored with the 'No action talk only' German Shephards.
Poor arguments? He labasts and cries whiners but has nothing to show for.
Clearly he must be a pretty comfy chap high up in his perch with that high-paying job, executive condo and stylish car...far too bedazzled to notice the ppl ard him getting their necks stretched and strangled...
After all, the decision to pay an "exclusive" price of $5 (non-refundable of course) for an ez-link cazrd must be a no-brainer.
If the LTA says pay, then pay. Why ask so much? Why bother to raise an issue over something as trivial as an increase in transport cost? Why bother the almighty gahmen over petty problems which the commoners continue to whine and whine about?
Why indeed.
CX is right. There is a problem with our gahmen. But there is a greater problem with ppl who prefer to accept rather than question the very heart of our nation. Mistakes are made, let's not delude ourselves that we can remain perfect.
But should we shoot down our own citizens just because we cry foul? Maybe we can take heart that in this forum, there are several ppl who stand up (in principle) to gahmen propaganda. That can translate to a large percentile of the population seeing daylight.
If more MPs like steve chia rise up and be counted, the strength of the opposition will pose a credible threat to the PAP. Perhaps at the end of the day, this is truly what the ppl want to see:
A plausible alternative to the decades-long monopoly. -
Interesting, he claims his toes are laughing, but he somehow repeatedly fails to deliver any rebuttal to our numerous weak-minded, thoughtless whines.Originally posted by BillyBong:Clearly he must be a pretty comfy chap high up in his perch with that high-paying job, executive condo and stylish car...far too bedazzled to notice the ppl ard him getting their necks stretched and strangled...
Oh please, more likely hes some ignorant teenager whose idea of earning money is stretching out his hand when daddy and mummy comes home. He's trying to figure how to spend the rest of his school holiday and surfing on the Internet when he came across this forum.
His only source of local news proably does not extend beyond the wide plethora of sanitised and censored versions force fed to him day in day out by the local idiot box and their internet and print equivalents.
Hes in danger on overdosing on those blue pills. -
Originally posted by Viper52:Hes in danger on overdosing on those blue pills. getting a wee bit personal aren't we viper?
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Maybe u could proposed a course of action??Originally posted by cooleo:Firstly, i did not use 'can't make it' on the Singaporean who wrote the email depicting his / her financial difficulties. Are the German Shephards suffering from delusions? My main grouse with this Singaporean is the fact that he / she dares to write and send the email out, then hides under a pen name.
Secondly, it is laughable that the German Shephards are trying to digress to other aspects instead of facing the all important question. Rather feeble attempts to say the least. But talk is cheap, and i will repeat it. Why do i have to commend or even agree with a pack of German Shephards that hide at the comfort of their homes and blast away at the system without producing any action? My toes are laffing away at the poor arguments and not a few delusions from some of the German Shephards.
This shall be my last posting here as i am frankly speaking, quite bored with the 'No action talk only' German Shephards.
We could get into details... -
Maybe u quite proposed a course of action??Originally posted by cooleo:Firstly, i did not use 'can't make it' on the Singaporean who wrote the email depicting his / her financial difficulties. Are the German Shephards suffering from delusions? My main grouse with this Singaporean is the fact that he / she dares to write and send the email out, then hides under a pen name.
Secondly, it is laughable that the German Shephards are trying to digress to other aspects instead of facing the all important question. Rather feeble attempts to say the least. But talk is cheap, and i will repeat it. Why do i have to commend or even agree with a pack of German Shephards that hide at the comfort of their homes and blast away at the system without producing any action? My toes are laffing away at the poor arguments and not a few delusions from some of the German Shephards.
This shall be my last posting here as i am frankly speaking, quite bored with the 'No action talk only' German Shephards.
We could get into details... -
Errrmmm...I meant the Blue Pill as opposed to the Red Pill. Reality as opposed to dreamlandOriginally posted by BillyBong: getting a wee bit personal aren't we viper? -
To CX,
I may not as articulate as you in putting the message across. Upon reading your thread, i agree with you so truly. Singaporeans are made to be drones, in turn, the lack of humanity kicks in. And yes, there are people who ae just plain arrogant and ignorant when they are so able to embrace the "truth" freely, but never stop to consider the others on the receiving end. Take for example, students here in Singapore. Although i applaud the Government for inplementing different classes of study systems(eg:ITE, poly), but however, the way the implemented it was wrong in a way, over the years, those who do not make it to the well trodden path, they are made to feel stupid and useless. The Government or people who are ignorant will say these people(those who do not make it) brought it upon themselves by thinking that way. But did they ever think what it's like to be in their shoes? Singapore has a long way to go in more than just breeding "entrepreneurs" and "scholars". If the attitude is all wrong, no amount of "scholars" will bring this country to great heights. We will all be mainly money-generating machines and the people in the top class of the working hierarchy will enjoy the benefits of prestige and wealth, while the middle and working class will just work their way to their grave. -
Papa PAP has decided that they alone are the chosen people (by the people
) to take any action (for the people? ). nobody else tells them how to do their job. they'll make sure of that. -
Hi CX, great post in crystallizing the situation in Singapore.
You are quite right in your statement that my point of Freedom being found in Taiwan and South Korea, in the Singapore context, can only be a comparison of apples with oranges.
However, if we do not look at the psyche of the people of either countries, and also if we do not look at the unruly outcome of what freedom has brought onto the people of both countries, we could draw lessons on the tremendous change that has come upon both societies when AUTHORITARIANISM is replaced by TRUE UNFETTERED CHOICE of the People of Taiwan and South Korea.
Taiwan and South Korea have both experienced tough military dictatorial governments respectively under Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang and the strong arm rule of Park Jung Hee Military.
When the tough military discipline imposed onto Taiwan and South Korea were lifted by a refreshing change to FREEDOM of People's Choice, there was wild euphoria which seems to be carrying on even to this day, and has been brought to an extreme level even during the SARS Outbreak.
In the Singapore context, there is hope, as Singaporeans appreciate social discipline as much as there is a slow build up in political conciousness, that result in the Political Awareness of the underhand methods employed against the Opposition.
With a clamour for loosening of the Government interference in our Lives, and more Political Education for the benefit of Singaporeans, it can only result in a slow change from passive interest, to taking positive actions - such as contributing in Forums like this.
It is interesting that there are more contributors to this Speaker's Corner, and also seeing new members joining in the discussion with some high quality postings.
There is hope for True Democracy in the distant future for Singapore - maybe in 5 years, 10 years, or 15 years to the future ?
The length of time taken will depend on how much Singaporeans are prepared to involve ourselves in politics, by not necessarily standing for nomination but contributing our support to the Opposition - by way of information, research articles, feed-back, opinions, and any other form of moral support so as to create a fair and level playing field that can only benefit ourselves.
With information being the key to unlock the genie of political stability in Singapore, the Government is afraid of the truth of events occurring in Singapore, and has ensured for itself a monopoly of information - hoarding all available bit of information under the all encompassing Official Secrets Act.
Even the Straits Times will archive their news after three days in the public domain, and any access will be through monitored membership as a paying subscriber to its Archive Services.
Try doing some research into some sensitive historical areas of Singapore, and you will need approval before entering some secure sections of the National Library, which stores such sensitive materials.
This is Singapore Today. -
even a kid can't stand you... what more can you say?Originally posted by cooleo:You sound like a little kid who was born in the year of 1984. Maybe i can give u a title if u want.....'aspiring Singapore Shephard'?
you lack maturity... grow up
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i'm just wondering, i think it would be more accurate to see the percentage of population in the top quartile and lowest quartile of the range of income rather than just looking at the average income. for all u know, singapore might have a pretty large number of rather well off people and also a large number of poor in the country. this would then account for the large number of people facing hardships everytime theres a jack up in prices. i mean, if u increase things like public transport prices, obviously u are getting more cash from the people who can't afford private transport or people who do not have an income, like students.
also, as a point of personal interest, besides posting on this forum, what are the alternative courses of civic action available to me as an individual? i doubt people actually bother going to speakers corner to listen, but i've never been there, so i'm not sure. i haven't heard a squeak from there in the news or among friends since the hype during its launch.
I think if anyone here considers anything less than forming our own political party to fight the PAP to be mere barking, then he or she should seriously consider the risks involved, funding, etc. Many disgruntled ones are poor or earning an average income, how do we go about getting these people to form their own parties? those with enough cash can thrive in singapore and would see little reason or incentive to go throw their money in forming a political party with little or no potential gains involved and confirmed losses from the beginning.
besides that, how many of us here knows how to go about forming a political party or getting support from the masses or registering as a candidate for elections etc, all these information isn't exactly very well publicised, u gotta go dig around, spending much time and effort for something with little potential gain, once again, there is just no incentive of doing it after the countless defamation suits filed, however i do believe that the suits were justified in most cases. i prefer to still believe in the judicial system in singapore... even if the politics isn't da best.
and i'm born in 1988, what does that make me? -
I am back after these few days..
Just wanna ask, do u think the best politcal system is to follow the Western political system ?
If u ask me, when they start implementing their political system they r already rich and powerful. When the public has too much powers, politician do not make decisions tat will be good for the nation in general. For example the French. They made many policies, like lower working hours etc to lure the people into voting for them. Tat is a popular policy, but is it good for the nation ? Now they r facing economy problems because they lack competitiveness compared to other countries.Taiwan and South Korea have both experienced tough military dictatorial governments respectively under Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang and the strong arm rule of Park Jung Hee Military.
Look at Taiwan, SIngapore and South Korea, and u will realise one thing. They r in bad shape when the military dictatorial political party take office. These 3 countries face something of a civil war. Korea and Taiwan is really in it while Singapore is mostly an idealogy war with Malaysia. Yet in the end, these 3 countries perform better than most neighbours. Why ?
Because at tough times, survival is more important than ideology. We need tough rules, which only a party tat does not fear of backlash can make. In fact, the governing system of Singapore had formed up to be a new political system tat made other countries wanna follow.
A question to ask, now Taiwan is under the rule of Ming Jing Tang. How different is it from before, other than they being more "free" ? -
pika?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
the best of societies have state secrets... thats Sg's govt uses this privilege is neither surprising nor offensive in itself.
With information being the key to unlock the genie of political stability in Singapore, the Government is afraid of the truth of events occurring in Singapore, and has ensured for itself a monopoly of information - hoarding all available bit of information under the all encompassing Official Secrets Act.
one interesting model is the American system where the FOIA (freedom of information act) allows for classified materials to be released after say... 10 years... depending on the level of sensitivity or whether they still have sensitivities attached to them...
bear in mind that even in America, the most sensitive portions of official documents are still blacked out before release... but at least they ARE released... eventually...
i don't agree with your point... it strays too much into the area of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories...
Even the Straits Times will archive their news after three days in the public domain, and any access will be through monitored membership as a paying subscriber to its Archive Services.
news articles are kinda the most innocuous primary sources a researcher can access... bear in mind that it costs $$$ to keep stuff accessible... its only fair that u pay to access if u need to access it.
i don't know how much it costs to access ST's archive services, but it costs thousands to subscribe to the Dow Jones/Reuters online database... so if all u need are ST articles, its may actually be cheaper.
besides, if u're just looking for old newspaper articles, u can get it from the national library... they're all microfilmed. the only gaps u'll find are those from the VERY early days... c. late 1800s? and thereabouts...Try doing some research into some sensitive historical areas of Singapore, and you will need approval before entering some secure sections of the National Library, which stores such sensitive materials.
i would really be interested to know what u mean by "secure section"... and "sensitive materials" ... care to enlighten? cos i've never come across anything like that in my sojourn there...
it would be good because at least it shows that they've kept it for a restricted audience rather than fed it to a shredder or a furnance...