is this fair to singaporeans?
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The recent Michael McCrea's case, once again, brings to our attention that we singaporeans are not treated FAIRLY or to be more precise EQUALLY.
Its seems that someone from Europe and/or USA can commit murder in Singapore and yet the death penalty will not be enforced!
is there one law for Singaporeans / Asians and another for the Europeans and / or Americans?
i am not in favour of the death penalty imposed in any case but find it demeaning that my country still practices it and so selectively!
claude -
since when was "fair" part of singapore life?
look at the powers' handling of everything!
a union trying to get a fair deal gets hammered by everyone from a useless minister to the Senile... uhh.. Senior Minister and his accursed son...
since when was fighting for a fair deal detrimental to the country unless the self-serving lea-duhs think that they have become the country...
no one should be above the law.. when they are in the country, you obey that country's laws... -
Beware of what you say.... althought i dun feel that sg government is fair but i think they are trying to minimise the damage...wonder if all SIA poilet all refuse to fly for 2 weeks...remember, singapore is a small country with NO RESOURCES.....the only resource they had is Human....Originally posted by the Bear:since when was "fair" part of singapore life?
look at the powers' handling of everything!
a union trying to get a fair deal gets hammered by everyone from a useless minister to the Senile... uhh.. Senior Minister and his accursed son...
since when was fighting for a fair deal detrimental to the country unless the self-serving lea-duhs think that they have become the country...
no one should be above the law.. when they are in the country, you obey that country's laws... -
Hi sugardaddy, try reading Viper52 post in the thread :Originally posted by sugardaddy:Beware of what you say.... althought i dun feel that sg government is fair but i think they are trying to minimise the damage...wonder if all SIA poilet all refuse to fly for 2 weeks...remember, singapore is a small country with NO RESOURCES.....the only resource they had is Human....
"Should the Government interfere in Union Members' Rights ? "
which I would like to repeat for your easy reading:Originally posted by Viper52:
Did the pilots go on strike? No
Did the pilots start a work-to-rule? No
Did the pilots initiate a go-slow? No
Did the pilots take any sort of industrial action? No
Did the pilots even threaten any of the above? [b]NO!!
The only thing they did was to vote out a union Ex-co that in their mind, did not represent their interests adequately. Is there anything wrong with that? In what way did that vote cause the situation (what situation BTW?) to get out of hand? Would the Singapore economy collapse because of the vote?
The only ones who claimed the pilots wanted to take industrial action are our overpaid ministers, who even came up with grand conspiracy theories of pilots trying to "sabotage our Air Hub reputation" and trying to "do Singapore in", and use it as a (pathetic) excuse to use the sledgehammer on an ant.
Or is that the reason for their obscene salaries? To dream up of non-existent threats?
Do we arrest people before they commit crimes?
Stop believing everything our do-no-wrong top ministerial talents say and judge the facts for ourselves.
Its such a pity that their scare-mongering, tale spinning and fact-twisting still work on a lot of minds too lazy or ignorant to check their facts before swallowing everything the MIW say.[/b] -
I must say you are still very naive. IR is a chain-effect thingy. If no-one step in to take control, there will be conflict between the Mangement and the Employees. Thus, will create a very unhappy working environment, will affect the employees' morale. Please remember that Those Pilots are those highly educated range. Well, when one gets too knowledgable, thier thots will be very "innovative" so much so that their "network" will be very widly spread.Originally posted by Atobe:
What will SIA do, if all the pilots does a mass resignation? -
Unfortunately, sugardaddy, if Singapore pride itself for its FIRST WORLD integrity, maturity, high moral standards, and other very complimentary standings, why do you think that the general feeling has been so negative amongst the Pilots (and most of the Airline Workers including Ground Staff) that they have been cheated in the last negotiations, when the announcement of $300 million PLUS profits came out for the last quarter, and so soon after the cuts have been made ?
Following the recent mass wage, retrenchment and CPF cuts, this general feeing of resentment has also been widespread throughout other industries and commercial sector, as was seen by the general expressions of discontentment by the sub-Union Leaders towards the Secretary-General of the NTUC at their pre-conference meeting.
Remember the weak televised protests, showing some sub-Union Leaders confronting and accusing the NTUC Secretary-General of only know how to 'cut, cut, cut' ?
While Singapore pride itself as a member of the FIRST WORLD, is this 'rough shod' manner of dealing with disgruntled workers the way to respond, using one's own position to fashion laws to suit one's own position ?
This is similar to some other Third World Countries, where the business tycoons are also Congressmen, who will legislate NEW Laws to protect their own interests, and suppressed the Worker's Rights to any FAIR hearings.
It was a surprise to learn that the Secretary-General of the NTUC is also a Member in the SIA Board of Directors, although it is no surprise that SIA has been created using funds 'from' Temasek Holdings, its resources managed by the GIC - and LKY is the Chairman of the GIC.
It looks like it is not only the Pilots who have SUPER egos, but quite a few characters APPOINTED to be Ministers and to the SIA Management.
It is an INTERNAL UNION matter, when the Union members passed a NO-CONFIDENCE vote on their Leaders, who did not represent the welfare of the Pilots accurately.
It is no business of anyone to step into their INTERNAL AFFAIR.
Yet, with regards to this McCrea case that is developing between the Legal System of Australia and Singapore, is this also First World behavior that an 'assured' sentence is pre-determined for the sake of smoothening the process of allowing the Australian system to release a Murder Suspect to Singapore to stand trial.
There are TWO dead persons, one is a Singaporean, murdered in Singapore, and yet our 'First World' Government will weakly respond in this manner to placate the demand from Australia - another First World Country. -
Unfortunately sugardaddy, naivete seems to be your forte.Originally posted by sugardaddy:I must say you are still very naive. IR is a chain-effect thingy. If no-one step in to take control, there will be conflict between the Mangement and the Employees. Thus, will create a very unhappy working environment, will affect the employees' morale. Please remember that Those Pilots are those highly educated range. Well, when one gets too knowledgable, thier thots will be very "innovative" so much so that their "network" will be very widly spread.
What will SIA do, if all the pilots does a mass resignation?
Conflicts are inevitable anywhere, much less in the field of Industrial Relations between the workers and Management. Thats where the Unions come in, to negotiate a middle-ground settlement that pleases both the employees they represent and satisfactory to management. By tilting the playing field more and more towards the management and emaciating the unions of their power thus ensuring that management almost always gets the bulk of decisions in its favour, you're only driving the employee resentment underground. Is there any wonder why Singapore and the Singaporean worker ranks very poorly in global employee satisfaction and productivity surveys?
As it is, the labour laws in Singapore are already very skewed towards management, and Singapore needed this recent shifting of the labour goalposts like it needed a bullet in the head.
As for lowering morale, morale at SIA is not exactly sky-high at the moment. Besides, by taking away more of the pilots privileges to choose their own representatives and the powers of those representatives to negotiate for those they represent, would it help morale?
If they wanted to mass resign, can the new law stop them? If anything I'd say it has pushed them nearer the exit door
Like i've asked in my previous post which Atobe has reposted, can you accuse, or punish someone for a crime that they MIGHT do, BEFORE they have done it? AND which they had NOT even threatened to do?
Give me a break, spare me the ad nauseum repetition of the governments scare-mongering and worst case scenarios. It gets tiresome after a while, hearing them cry wolf one too many times already to justify their knee-jerk, ham-fisted and sledgehammer responses. Unless of course, one is too lazy and ignorant to judge and analyse the facts for themselves.
Your arguments hold as much water as a sieve. -
Kow-towing to white foreigners while kicking its own people at the same time. Truly world class.Originally posted by Atobe:Yet, with regards to this McCrea case that is developing between the Legal System of Australia and Singapore, is this also First World behavior that an 'assured' sentence is pre-determined for the sake of smoothening the process of allowing the Australian system to release a Murder Suspect to Singapore to stand trial.
There are TWO dead persons, one is a Singaporean, murdered in Singapore, and yet our 'First World' Government will weakly respond in this manner to placate the demand from Australia - another First World Country. -
What do you expect from big brother who desires to be feared more then loved? Sense, justice and fairness to the common folk?
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As for lowering morale, morale at SIA is not exactly sky-high at the moment. Besides, by taking away more of the pilots privileges to choose their own representatives and the powers of those representatives to negotiate for those they represent, would it help morale?
its not just this moment , morale seem to be low for them for quite some time already -
To "sugardaddy":Originally posted by sugardaddy:I must say you are still very naive. IR is a chain-effect thingy. If no-one step in to take control, there will be conflict between the Mangement and the Employees. Thus, will create a very unhappy working environment, will affect the employees' morale. Please remember that Those Pilots are those highly educated range. Well, when one gets too knowledgable, thier thots will be very "innovative" so much so that their "network" will be very widly spread.
What will SIA do, if all the pilots does a mass resignation?
There is a conflict between A and B. So A steps in to take control. (!!??
)
It's like a judge jumps down to do the prosecuting; and then after that jumps back up onto his judgement seat.
I think the "management" here is a l-i-t-t-l-e- b-i-t more innovative. -
Well, Government is "C" in this case.
No one will be happy about having thier pay and CPF cut..... but each have their own way of thing. It all depend on from what point of view are you taking your glance at.
I do understand that employees sure will felt cheated but can you imagine if our Airport come to a total stand still.... Singapore econimic will slump again and how many ppl will be out on the street fighting hunger. How many will be further out of job?
Think further my friends..... your view are rather short-sighted.... -
Sure, the Government gets a 'C' in the manner it handle this issue.
Using alarmist information to reduce overheads is a poor method in getting workers to accept cuts to wages, CPF contributions, and staff strength.
As events had borne out, the supposedly minor cuts was to help SIA to prevent massive bleeding, which at that time of the cut, I was not convinced how the reduction that amount to a small paltry sum could help the airline in any big way.
Yet in less then three months, before the airline industry can fully recover, that SIA can immediately report a massive profit of over $300 million, will show the INSINCERITY during negotiations, by not revealing the true financial position of the Company when negotiating with the Staff.
Where is the loudly proclaimed tri-partite trust and honesty in the supposed mutual support in negotiations ?
With or without Singapore Airlines, the Singapore Economy remains heavily dependent on the US Economy, and EXTERNAL SITUATION in Politics, Economics, and Social Stability of our neighbors.
It is amazing that Singaporeans remain trapped in the slanted information that is largely dished out by the Government.
The Government is involved in nearly any and every large enterprise that cater to the needs of Singaporeans, as well as being the largest employer of Singaporeans.
Any minor adjustments in wage cuts will decidedly benefit the treasury of these GLCs, but is it fair to Singaporeans who have to bear the brunt of this economic hardship ?
Is it fair to Singaporeans - who have made huge sacrifices - when SIA make such huge profits that go to the treasury of the Government, and only to be squandered by dubious investments made by the GIC - of which the accounting remains a mystery since its establishment ?
Is it fair to Singaporeans at all, given the status quo in which Singaporeans are tied to the strings in all manner - from the daily needs purchased at NTUC supermarkets, to the various modes of Public Transport, to the Housing that is the only affordable types available to Singapore and sold at an atrocious price that rob Singaporeans of its entire Life's Savings ? -
A: why am i being treated like this?
B: shut the hell up and bend back down..
A: i have not stood up.. but why am i being sodomised?
B: shut up! and like it!!
A: no.. i don't like it, but i'm not standing up yet... tell me why am i being raped and sodomised??
B: what? just shut the hell up and say you like it!!
A: no.. i've taken all i can.. go away.. i will NOT be raped and sodomised.. i will continue to do my job but i will not be treated like someone's bytch..
C: YOU ARE OUT OF LINE!! you have threatened ME!! you have threatened EVERYONE by refusing to be raped and sodomised!! you WILL like it and shut up about it!! how dare you??
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sugardaddy.. this is what is happening now...Originally posted by sugardaddy:Well, Government is "C" in this case.
No one will be happy about having thier pay and CPF cut..... but each have their own way of thing. It all depend on from what point of view are you taking your glance at.
I do understand that employees sure will felt cheated but can you imagine if our Airport come to a total stand still.... Singapore econimic will slump again and how many ppl will be out on the street fighting hunger. How many will be further out of job?
Think further my friends..... your view are rather short-sighted.... -
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A story which is really cliche.
Mr Tan runs a business selling plastic toys.
He hired managers Chan and Dick to help run the company.
The production line has five workers: Ah Beng, Ah Seng, Ah Huat, Muthu and Ali.
As the CEO, Mr Tan pays himself a million dollars a year.
His justification is: "without a good leader, the business will not be
successful; and you won't get a good leader if you're unwilling to pay for one."
Mr Tan has never worked in another company before.
Chan had won a government scholarship twenty years ago while Dick is an expatriate from America.
Mr Tan thinks very highly of them and pays them each half-a-million dollars a year. As an expatriate, Dick also gets housing, transport and relocation allowances amounting to a quarter of a million dollars a year.
The production workers each gets $1,500 a month with $300 going towards a retirement gratuity that the company would match dollar-for-dollar.
The business hasn't been going too well. In fact, business has been downright awful for the last few years.
Consumers seem to prefer the cheaper plastic toys from companies across the street.
Mr Tan is furious. "These consumers are a bunch of idiots," he said, "don't they know that the companies across the street are not managed by talents like Chan, Dick and myself?"
Mr Tan has always been deeply impressed by Chan and Dick.
Chan has the remarkable ability to use words like "synergy" and "paradigm shift" in every sentence. And Dick? Dick is white.
So Mr Tan got down to some serious discussions with Chan and Dick. After many hours of brain storming, they decided that they know what's wrong with the company.
"We don't have enough talents," Mr Tan declared, "we need to hire more scholars and white men." And he did. So now, there's Ang, who was Chan's best friend when they were in RI, and Brad, Dick's brother.
They are hired on the same terms as Chan and Dick. To reward themselves for coming up with this visionary strategy, Mr Tan
gave Chan, Dick and himself a 10% raise. With the raise and the hiring of two new management staff, Mr Tan figured
that he had to cut cost. So he laid off Ah Huat, who's about to retire and receive his retirement gratuity from the company.
The remaining four production workers now have to work 12 hours a day to cover for Ah Huat.
They didn't get any compensation for this extra work because Mr Tan told them that this is a difficult time for the company and all workers have to make some personal sacrifices.
"Luckily, we now have a world class management team and business will pick up in no time," Mr Tan proclaimed.
However, business hasn't picked up at all despite having a world class management team. On the contrary, business seems to have worsen quite a bit.
Mr Tan is now even more furious. He has no doubt that he and his management staff are world class. So the problem with the company must surely lie with the blue-collar workers like Ah Beng and his gang, who hardly have any paper qualifications and speak dialect and Singlish.
But just to be sure, he engaged the services of a management consultant firm to confirm his belief.
The management consultant cost Mr Tan an arm and a leg but he identified the problem: "Your labour cost is way too high.
Do you know that the average annual wage of your employees is more than $400,000? That's ten times the amount for the companies across the street."
"Ah ha! Just as I thought," Mr Tan congratulated himself on arriving at the same conclusion as a world class management consultant, "Ah Beng and his gang are overpaid."
So Mr Tan reduced the salary of his production workers to $1,000 a month and abolished the retirement gratuity scheme.
This story is totally fictional. So if any of the characters are people
that you know. it's PURELY coincidental..........