Give with one Right Hand, Take back with two Lefts
-
Dont know exactly wat u trying to say. Anyway, your turn to talk on Option C, please.Originally posted by lowem:What I can say is that gov.sg isn't exactly dumb. They've got "the best and the brightest" scholars at their disposal after all. They are (or should be) quite aware that there are external forces far, far beyond their control which will affect not only the people, but themselves eventually.
However, their responses so far to these external forces leave something to be desired.
Sure, we know (and many of us do appreciate) that they're trying to do "B.", but again, somebody prove to me that they're not just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. -
Noted. I don't claim myself to be an expert, just feel like thinking aloud. And I apologise if I have contributed to this apparent mayhem. On the "intellectual" part, what my worthy opponent was trying to tell me is, "You are a lecturer, you are supposed to be highly educated. How come you cannot understand what I am saying?" Perhaps I understood too much for his comfort, thus the sarcasm. Thank you for your feedback.Originally posted by laurence82:Out of point here, but let me note few points.
While this political discussion is on between two experts here, (btw, i am not sarcastic, both have given excellent points) let me inform you guys there is another on other forums on business world, more on network marketing. Well, its between me and one other guy. Same for many people over at military nuts forum.
Maybe I am wrong, but this sgforum sometimes make me sick coz it all started with intellectual debate over an issue, and ends up both parties, or even more parties, making personal attacks or even hid sarcasm within their words.
Are there ways to keep discussion alive, without compromising on the word "intellectual"? Hope I am making sense. Cheers
.
cheers
thinkloud2004 -
Irrelevant insinuations? I thought they were quite appropriate and subtle to the outright sarcasm of your post, which did not make too much clarity concerning your views. It is an odd way to ask for solutions to the post I made.Originally posted by thinkloud2004:You have answered my question with more questions and, as usual, added the irrelevant insinuations. My intent is simple - I want a solution. In case you got yourself lost in your own avalanche of words, let me put the question to you once again...this time in simple English - "What would you do if the Government had not given you any ERS shares?"
If your intention is simply to flood the pages and advertise yourself to be an encylopedia of sort, then I rest my case. Otherwise, lets debate on your solution, if any.
I started off quite neutral but your extreme views have driven me to take side. I think I enjoy playing the "devil's advocate".
thinkloud2004
Are your views neutral at all ? The position taken in your post is hardly neutral, and your leaning is quite obvious except to the blind.
You seem to have a habit of not being clear of your intent or position on subject matters raised in anyone's post.
You have quite an expert knack to goad for a response that perhaps is intentional, so as to allow you a coup de grace on someone who is not alert to your approach ?
If you get kick in the butt in the process, it will hardly be anyone's fault.
If my reply to your post carry more questions than answers, it is due to your own preference to stay at arms length, and will not engage on the issues raised with direct clarity.
To humour your request, I will attempt a reply to your question with the following:-
Did anyone ask the Government for ERS ?
I believe ALL Singaporean got on fine with our lives, until the ‘Bright Spark’ - with the Finance Portfolio in the Government - decided to advance on a proven lucrative GST situation that started at THREE PERCENT.
The 'Bright Spark' found this an easy avenue to increase Government Revenue that require only an initial capital outlay of ERS, which will lead to a PERMANENT lucrative return over the long term into the FUTURE YEARS, with yields far exceeding the initial capital outlay paid out in ERS.
Do you think that the ERS payment of an average of $500 is sufficient to tide over the increase in the cost of living of any single Singaporean - when GST is increased from 4 to 5 PERCENT ?
The ERS is a joke, as most HDB household expense averaging $1000 per head per month will end up paying $50 per Month for GST – or $600 PER YEAR; and each and every year thereafter, until the next increase.
The ERS is only paid to Singapore for a SINGLE YEAR – in the year that GST is increased, but the GST will be permanent feature that each Singaporean will have to encounter for the years thereafter.
The ERS is a 'lollipop' to sweeten and dull the pain that will be and MUST be endured by the larger working population in the Heartlands of Singapore, living in HDB homes.
What do you think the solution should be ?
Will you try reading the views of an Old Hand from within the Government - on the GST increases and ERS pay-out - in the thread “Singapore is Bigger than the PAP” ? -
Originally posted by thinkloud2004:
Why take the easy way out, or are you avoiding the facts that cause the 'state of mind' ?
[b]Being in academia, would you not care to dig a little deeper to understand the cause for this state of mind, or will that be too much trouble and unsafe for your position in showing your political leanings ?
Or do you prefer to hide in the safe cloister of being politically correct, in order to preserve your occupation ?
>You are quite right. I dont see why I should endanger my occupation just to appease your incessant rumblings. And I believe there are many like me, from all walks of life, who feel the same. The Government has had treated us well and we are quite happy to be in this status quo. [/b]
Incessant rumblings will be heard only by those who are afraid to hear the truth of their present political environment, and preferring to preserve their own economic status at the expense of others clearing the dirty work for them.
Certainly the Government has treated you well, so well that you will not involve yourself to the status that adversely affect the working class, and since you belong to the pampered few in Singapore.
Need more be said ?continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Those who are angry, jealous, and vindictive seems to be those whose present pampered position is being exposed, or seemingly threatened by their own sense of insecurity.
[b]Leave politics to politicians, and allow others to determine the fate of your future and that of your succeeding generations - (unless you prefer to remain celibate) ?
As was mentioned in my last post, in the thread 'Singaporeans are fools' - initiated by 'Relevation' - this discussion in sgForums is part of the Singapore Political Process, in which views are exchanged without threading on the paranoia of the Authorities.
>I hardly see any views exchanged. SOBS are not views. They only make some people angry, jealous and vindictive after reading. After that so what ??? If this is your so called Singapore Political Process, I rather stay with the PAP. [/b]
Contrary to your views, it seems that there are more reasonable people here in this sgForums, who have posted measured criticism about the Government, and the evidence are in the postings themselves - and which you do not seem to appreciate.
Those who have made typically knee jerk defensive remarks are cynics like yourself.
What is your concern if those who posted in this sgForums only talk, exchange, and remain political inactive (at this time) ?
Is your concern an act of frustration of all the supposed 'SOBS' that lead to no action ? Or is your frustration doubled due to your own inability to act ?
Another of your attempt to goad participants here ?continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Compliments must be hard to come by in the cloistered 'ivory towers of academia'.
[b]It is surprising that for someone with such high intellectual leanings, you will want to participate in the lamentable preferences of all those who prefer 'to gather in this small corner to express their mutual self-pity and exchange sobs (Same Old Boring Stories)'.
Even when you belittle our efforts by describing the exchanges in the manner that you did, it is surprising that you continuously find it interesting enough to return, and burn your time here.
>Thank you again. You seem to relish on my high intellectual learnings. Sad for you, it is because of this that I read you differently. And we are allowed differing views here, don't we? [/b]
it must be lonely up there, and boredom must have pushed you to participate in this forum with lesser people filled with SOBS that you find intolerable and detesting.
It is surprising that you will ask 'if differing views are allowed here', when you have shown yourself to be intolerant of views AGAINST the Government and Politics of the Ruling Party.
You have been very creatively narrow by labelling our views in the most derogatory manner as SOBS, and harboring a totally skewed opinion that our anti-establishment opinions will only cause others to be 'angry, jealous and vindictive'.continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Quite presumptious to assume yourself in giving me the opportunity to have done what I have been doing, way before you even become a member in this sgForums.
[b]Perhaps you are looking for more 'sobs' - Shockingly Odious Bummer Stories concerning the Government and the Ruling Party ?
Were there self-pity on the part of any one here ?
Is this 'Political Corner' that small ?
>Yeah...tell me more. At least you should thank me for giving you the opportunity to dig out all the bones and intestines from the Government's closet. This 'Political Corner' is negligible compared with the mass of voters out there, as far as Singapore is concerned. However, it can be read by all who care to read, here and beyond. So agenda is important. [/b]
You complain that "this 'Political Corner' is negligible compared to the mass of votes out there, as far as Singapore is concerned".
Yet you are concerned that this 'Political Corner' "can be read by all who care to read, here and beyond. So agenda is important ".
You do not seem to be able to decide if this 'Political Corner' is too small to be of any use, or if those who participate here will benefit in the Process of Political Education and be awaken.
What is your agenda in participating in this 'Political Corner' ?continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Patience will benefit you, if you will allow a little smoke to appear when you rub a pointed stick onto a dry wood, work on the heat a little more, and add some more dry leaves, and slowly a flame will appear.
[b]IEvery fire always start with a small spark. In the face of strong wind and inclemental climate that do not favor any unauthorised flame to exist, the fire will not be so easy to start, and will need good preparation, nurturing, and continued nursing to ensure that the flame will burn.
It does not help, when those who are cynical, prefer not to participate in helping to spark the flame, but instead will try to douse the flame for any hidden agenda that no one will ever know.
>I dont see any flame, smoke perhaps. There are many ways to start a fire. By your way, you will burn yourself and others around you before many will feel the warmth. [/b]
Cynicism will not bring us anywhere.
If you cannot paddle as a team in the same boat, then get off the boat and swim to which ever boat will take you on.
Surprising this was spelled out clearly in the post which you have responded, somehow I wonder if you do read what you see, or do you prefer to see the shadows that you imagine between the alphabets that make the words printed.
The air must be thin up in the ivory towers of academia, which easily lead to hallucination and self-denials of Reality.
Pilots trained to such danger will know how to avoid misinterpreting events and steer clear of trouble.continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Thank you but No Thanks - I do not believe in personality cult.
[b]Where does your loyalty lie?
Is it for the interest of Singapore, or for the Politics of the Party ?
>Neither. It is with Mr Atobe, if that makes you happier.
[/b]
No - I cannot accept claims of loyalty from one who live by hallucination and self-denial while 'on the job'.
No - I cannot accept one who is CONTENTED with one's OWN status quo , and have no ambition to contribute to the advancement of himself or the community that he is a part of. -
Who do you think makes up the Ruling Party ?Originally posted by thinkloud2004:> - unless of course their agenda is simply to demolish the ruling party, whatever consequence notwithstanding.
thinkloud2004
They are not super human beings, but ordinary Singaporeans that have been hand picked, annointed, and glorified by Political Propaganda to allow the other ordinary Singaporeans to accept them as nominees to be elected into Parliament.
Many of the hand picked and gloried personalities have also fallen by the side, either due to personal short-comings, inability to take on the heat, ineptitude despite being qualified, non-team player, or a change of career.
The Ruling Party has been able to monopolise talents from our limited population, and this has resulted in an unhealthy political state of affairs for the future of Singapore - (see the thread Singapore is Bigger than PAP).
It is presumptious to suggest that without PAP there will be dire consequences for Singapore.
Singapore is what she is today, due to the toil of each and every Singaporean, at all levels of Singapore Society - and is not the result of a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.
Will Singapore be non-existent if there is no PAP ?
More likely, there will be no PAP - (or LKY) - IF THERE IS NO SINGAPORE. -
Option C : "And so it begins".Originally posted by thinkloud2004:Dont know exactly wat u trying to say. Anyway, your turn to talk on Option C, please.
An impending crisis of biblical proportions. In time to come, there will be no choice. No option. No fate.
Government will no longer matter.
Opposition will no longer matter.
"One day all this will be gone. It will be dust and ashes and gases. One day our days on earth will end. One day the years that we live on the earth - whether they be few or many - will be viewed alongside of eternity. With such a perspective, even MethuselahÂ’s life is but a moment!" -
... but until then, let's hope for the best.
The search for an intelligent, logical, non-emotional rebuttal to the material on Jay Hanson's site goes on. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
You have yet to answer my question - "What would you do if the Government had not given u any ERS share?" , like it or not the GST is here to stay.I think many are waiting for an answer from you.
Irrelevant insinuations? I thought they were quite appropriate and subtle to the outright sarcasm of your post, which did not make too much clarity concerning your views. It is an odd way to ask for solutions to the post I made.
Are your views neutral at all ? The position taken in your post is hardly neutral, and your leaning is quite obvious except to the blind.
You seem to have a habit of not being clear of your intent or position on subject matters raised in anyone's post.
You have quite an expert knack to goad for a response that perhaps is intentional, so as to allow you a coup de grace on someone who is not alert to your approach ?
If you get kick in the butt in the process, it will hardly be anyone's fault.
If my reply to your post carry more questions than answers, it is due to your own preference to stay at arms length, and will not engage on the issues raised with direct clarity.
To humour your request, I will attempt a reply to your question with the following:-
[b]Did anyone ask the Government for ERS ?
I believe ALL Singaporean got on fine with our lives, until the ‘Bright Spark?- with the Finance Portfolio in the Government - decided to advance on a proven lucrative GST situation that started at THREE PERCENT.
The 'Bright Spark' found this an easy avenue to increase Government Revenue that require only an initial capital outlay of ERS, which will lead to a PERMANENT lucrative return over the long term into the FUTURE YEARS, with yields far exceeding the initial capital outlay paid out in ERS.
Do you think that the ERS payment of an average of $500 is sufficient to tide over the increase in the cost of living of any single Singaporean - when GST is increased from 4 to 5 PERCENT ?
The ERS is a joke, as most HDB household expense averaging $1000 per head per month will end up paying $50 per Month for GST ?or $600 PER YEAR; and each and every year thereafter, until the next increase.
The ERS is only paid to Singapore for a SINGLE YEAR ?in the year that GST is increased, but the GST will be permanent feature that each Singaporean will have to encounter for the years thereafter.
The ERS is a 'lollipop' to sweeten and dull the pain that will be and MUST be endured by the larger working population in the Heartlands of Singapore, living in HDB homes.
What do you think the solution should be ?
Will you try reading the views of an Old Hand from within the Government - on the GST increases and ERS pay-out - in the thread “Singapore is Bigger than the PAP??
[/b]
If you cannot offer a solution then there is nothing to debate about.
We can read all the news somewhere else. Cut and paste from the various sources, dumping them here and adding bold prints selectively does not make you more enlightened than any of us, except perhaps to ooze your grievances, venge your frustrations and hopefully find a scapegoat that symbolises LKY or PAP. In the process, you have exposed your real intentions of flooding this page. And a few supporters that hum the chorus together with you is definitely no representation of the majority of Singaporeans out there. Good try anyway -
Haha. I think you are beginning to give a more down to earth answer. Simply put - PAP should not be ruling Singapore - right ?Originally posted by Atobe:Who do you think makes up the Ruling Party ?
They are not super human beings, but ordinary Singaporeans that have been hand picked, annointed, and glorified by Political Propaganda to allow the other ordinary Singaporeans to accept them as nominees to be elected into Parliament.
Many of the hand picked and gloried personalities have also fallen by the side, either due to personal short-comings, inability to take on the heat, ineptitude despite being qualified, non-team player, or a change of career.
The Ruling Party has been able to monopolise talents from our limited population, and this has resulted in an unhealthy political state of affairs for the future of Singapore - (see the thread Singapore is Bigger than PAP).
It is presumptious to suggest that without PAP there will be dire consequences for Singapore.
Singapore is what she is today, due to the toil of each and every Singaporean, at all levels of Singapore Society - and is not the result of a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.
Will Singapore be non-existent if there is no PAP ?
More likely, there will be no PAP - (or LKY) - IF THERE IS NO SINGAPORE.
But admist the noise and smoke, what else are you going to do? And what do you want the readers of your post to do? Are we not like in a KTV room - listen to your singing and screaming, noisy but with emotions - give you a big applause when your song is over and then everybody returns home and life goes on as usual. -
Originally posted by lowem:
Well said, can we go back to Option B then?
Option C : [b]"And so it begins".
An impending crisis of biblical proportions. In time to come, there will be no choice. No option. No fate.
Government will no longer matter.
Opposition will no longer matter.
"One day all this will be gone. It will be dust and ashes and gases. One day our days on earth will end. One day the years that we live on the earth - whether they be few or many - will be viewed alongside of eternity. With such a perspective, even MethuselahÂ’s life is but a moment!"[/b] -
thinkloud2004 -
Yeah...tell me more. At least you should thank me for giving you the opportunity to dig out all the bones and intestines from the Government's closet. This 'Political Corner' is negligible compared with the mass of voters out there, as far as Singapore is concerned. However, it can be read by all who care to read, here and beyond. So agenda is important.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atobe -
Quite presumptious to assume yourself in giving me the opportunity to have done what I have been doing, way before you even become a member in this sgForums.
You complain that "this 'Political Corner' is negligible compared to the mass of votes out there, as far as Singapore is concerned".
Yet you are concerned that this 'Political Corner' "can be read by all who care to read, here and beyond. So agenda is important ".
You do not seem to be able to decide if this 'Political Corner' is too small to be of any use, or if those who participate here will benefit in the Process of Political Education and be awaken.
What is your agenda in participating in this 'Political Corner' ?
>You cannot deny the fact that this "this 'Political Corner' is negligible compared to the mass of votes out there, as far as Singapore is concerned", can you ? I don't need to display mammoth figures to prove it. I never underestimate the intelligence of the readers.
>My point is - if you intend to change the current political shape of Singapore which you so vehemently abhorred, then you must reach out to those who will eventually cast their votes. By writing lengthy scripts here how many percent of the voters are you targeting, if any at all. Does it matter if you awake 0.2% of the population and perhaps 0.1% of the voters. On the other hand, your posts will be read by many who have no say in the political shaping of our country. So I venture to say that you have no attempt or solution to improve on the lives of our people but simply, in the name of freedom of expression, to splash out the dirty linens of this Government and protray a tarnished image of our leaders and our country to the whole wide world. Am I right?
>My agenda is to expose your real agenda. -
Emotionism? KTV singing?
Insignificant?
Have you lost your mind? Has it not gone apparent to you that you are merely trying to return whatever fire you have out of your battered positions after being virtually vapourized by rational, logcal rebuttals?
I'm afraid your branding of this place as nothing more then a KTV room where we listen to Adobe is prehaps to scrape the bottom of the barrel. A crass, almost comical way of trying to drag the reasoned, logical way of operating here into your domain of emotionism and flame baiting.
I find your callous disregard for truth and justice here disturbing, aka. if we were to follow your recommendation that we should all just shut up and get back to our lives because we aren't making too much of a difference anyway, would be prehaps to appeal to that piece of humanity and individual to turn away from truth, fairness and justice.
If we were to listen and apply what you were telling us, we won't even have option B. The reason why the gar'men is starting to notice is because of the increased capacity of Singaporeans to think for themselves and question the status quo nowadays. Just go to thevoiddeck.org and see if we are just a little corner here on the web of Singaporeans who won't buy propangada flat. The truth is, we are hardly alone.
This forum is no assualt on the PAP, the truth is, this is simply a forum of people who are aware of the apparent injustices in our turf, and are concerned about it. Ie. Singaporeans who are not political unaware. And the simple logic is, the ruling party would not be attracting so much fire here if it was fair and just to the people.
How many people can be happy with the status quo? Below express stream/JC/Uni students who are regarded as second class and constantly shotchanged their entire lives? A working class person who has to bear tons of costs to make basic ends meet? The retrenched who were booted because their government regarded them as uncompetitive and just expendable units in a myopic economic plan gone badly wrong (ironically those who came up with these plans are still around and reaping in the big bucks)? A people who know that they have no real choice over their fates so completely controled by those who have put them into this matrix and now milk them for power to maintain this illusionary status quo?
People do not oppose for the sake of opposing, just because the Ruling Party has to be knocked off it's throne, despite what they may like to egoistically claim (please, we have better things to do). The truth is, some of the way things are done make people go "what the...".
An American is willingly duty bound and zealously, if not sometimes misguidedly patrotic to his nation because he is fighting for the mythical ethos of his nation that has given him freedom of choice. In Singapore, we (males) serve for two years, pledge our lives to defend our nation... and have to endure being ripped off for most of our lives... what exactly are we fighting for in Singapore? The Lee Dynasty? A system that contuines to fleece us with no sense of basic thought for the individual? A people who submit to a government not out of fairness and graditude but out of fear?
In the end, it's no surprise some people decide to unplug from the Singamatrix when finally confronted my the obvious and almost poetic truth of Smith's question:
Why Mr. Anderson? Why? -
Originally posted by thinkloud2004:
Very interesting approach that you still persist in performing.
You have yet to answer my question - [b]"What would you do if the Government had not given u any ERS share?" , like it or not the GST is here to stay.I think many are waiting for an answer from you.
If you cannot offer a solution then there is nothing to debate about.
We can read all the news somewhere else. Cut and paste from the various sources, dumping them here and adding bold prints selectively does not make you more enlightened than any of us, except perhaps to ooze your grievances, venge your frustrations and hopefully find a scapegoat that symbolises LKY or PAP. In the process, you have exposed your real intentions of flooding this page. And a few supporters that hum the chorus together with you is definitely no representation of the majority of Singaporeans out there. Good try anyway[/b]
Still trying to bait and trip the writer in which ever way an answer will be given - 'Damned if you do, and Damned if you don't '.
Why do you not answer my question as to 'What do you think the solution should be ?' after reading my piece ?
It seems that you could not draw the conclusion from my last post, or perhaps you can only understand clear explicit points.
Clearly you refused to accept the points posted, or you prefer to ignore the issues raised simply to prove your worth in demolishing a post in any manner.
Just to satisfy your 'aha' mentality, and see how you go on from here - my answer to your question:
"What would you do if the Government had not given u any ERS share?"
Did I ask for any ERS, in the First Place ?
Did any Singaporeans ask for ERS to be given to placate our concern to the insistence of the Government to increase GST from 3 Percent to 4, then to 5 Percent ?
In order not to be tripped by the plethora of legislations to prevent FREE SPEECH of a Singapore Citizen, I will contribute my 2 cents worth of my opinion to anyone who is prepared to listen, and support any actions to inform the Government of our concern that the GST will affect our Cost of Living at this moment, and also over the Longer Term.
At least Dr Richard Hu, the previous Finance Minister, was honest enough to admit in Parliament, that his Ministry was surprised at the overwhelming success in revenue collection when GST 3 Percent was first introduced. It was beyond the wildest dream and expectation of the Finance Minister and his Ministry.
It led the Government to issue the Singapore Shares at the end of 2002, to return a token sum that did not quite cover the additional tax paid by each Singaporean - over and above their usual income tax.
With the present Finance Minister, there was no such candid honesty at the end of 2003, after a year when GST was increased from 3 to 4 Percent.
I will continue to monitor the events of the present Finance Ministry, publication of data from the Government - especially concerning their revenue collection from GST, Income Tax, Corporate Tax, Customs and Excise, and data from the Statistics Department.
I will make periodical contributions to any Forums organised by Private, Commercial, Government or Opposition Parties.
I will speak out as loud as I have been doing in Public and in Private Conversation - despite having been warned by good friends to watch my back, in case some ISD agents happen to be within earshot.
Will you dare to take a stand to state what you believe is fundamentally wrong, and make an effort to act for the sake of a better homeland in the immediate time and for the future ?
From your past post, it will seem that you have made yourself quite clear that you will take the safer route and be politically correct. You have stated that your Job Security comes first.
Now we know the value you will place in Singapore's Interest.
It brings us back to the question as to what are you doing here in this political corner which you see as LITTLE, refusing to engage on the issues, but baiting anyone whom you see as spitting venom, hatred, jealousy - (did I miss any expletives from your post? ).
Seriously, I wonder who is creating such an environment in this exchange, when your intention is quite clear that by your attitude, and your presumptious position of serving as a 'Devil's Advocate'.
Are you quite certain that those shoes will fit your feet ? -
Your manner of reading the post and reply is interesting.Originally posted by thinkloud2004:Haha. I think you are beginning to give a more down to earth answer. Simply put - PAP should not be ruling Singapore - right ?
But admist the noise and smoke, what else are you going to do? And what do you want the readers of your post to do? Are we not like in a KTV room - listen to your singing and screaming, noisy but with emotions - give you a big applause when your song is over and then everybody returns home and life goes on as usual.
Again you avoid the issues raised, and prefer to make a grand performance in attempting to psycho-analyse my efforts.
Your effort is supremely a copy of the Ruling Elite at CHARACTER ASSASSINATION of anyone who dare to put forth an opposing view towards the Government.
Contradicting your own position about this Political Forum being 'LITTLE' - which means insignificant - compared to the larger electorate out there, yet you seem to be attracted to this place.
From your empty postings - which lean towards baiting - it clearly and obviously show up your own emotions of jealousy, hatred, venom - towards those who are articulate and daring enough to put Private Thoughts into Public Print.
Perhaps you are refining the art of character assassination, suppression of opinions, and all the other actions that are hallmarks of the Ruling Party ?
Unfortunately, your imitative effort is below par, and is obvious from the first post you made in baiting 'Relevation' - in his post 'Singaporeans are Fools'.
I wish you success if you are making any effort to gain entry into the Ruling Party, but do not count on any co-operation to make it any easier for you to succeed and gain notice from the Elite. -
Unfortunately, in your own presumptious and (dare I say) immature view of events in Singapore, you are wrong.Originally posted by thinkloud2004:thinkloud2004 -
Yeah...tell me more. At least you should thank me for giving you the opportunity to dig out all the bones and intestines from the Government's closet. This 'Political Corner' is negligible compared with the mass of voters out there, as far as Singapore is concerned. However, it can be read by all who care to read, here and beyond. So agenda is important.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[b]Atobe -
Quite presumptious to assume yourself in giving me the opportunity to have done what I have been doing, way before you even become a member in this sgForums.
You complain that "this 'Political Corner' is negligible compared to the mass of votes out there, as far as Singapore is concerned".
Yet you are concerned that this 'Political Corner' "can be read by all who care to read, here and beyond. So agenda is important ".
You do not seem to be able to decide if this 'Political Corner' is too small to be of any use, or if those who participate here will benefit in the Process of Political Education and be awaken.
What is your agenda in participating in this 'Political Corner' ?
>You cannot deny the fact that this "this 'Political Corner' is negligible compared to the mass of votes out there, as far as Singapore is concerned", can you ? I don't need to display mammoth figures to prove it. I never underestimate the intelligence of the readers. [/b][/quote]
If this site is negligible, what are you doing here, if you are not yourself also seeking publicity, or perhaps release from boredom ?
Do I need a larger platform to voice my views ?
Every and any available 'Platform' counts in this process of Political Education of Singaporeans. I will have achieve the process if I can get any Singaporean participants in this sgForums, to engage in constructive ways with their opinions and views of Singapore Politics.
If you feel that the supposedly 'mammoth figures' are beyond your mental capacity to cope, it is little wonder that you do not take note of how much the Government has taken from Singaporeans.
Little wonder that most Singaporeans succumb to the simplistic effort from LKY, in his practise of 'Fill the Stomach, and Dull the Mind' - (read his memoirs, both the First and Second Parts).
It will seem now that you are a wonder product of LKY's genius in developing his great Principle of Good and Effective Governance.
[quote]continuing post by thinkloud2004:
thinkloud2004
>My point is - if you intend to change the current political shape of Singapore which you so vehemently abhorred, then you must reach out to those who will eventually cast their votes. By writing lengthy scripts here how many percent of the voters are you targeting, if any at all. Does it matter if you awake 0.2% of the population and perhaps 0.1% of the voters. On the other hand, your posts will be read by many who have no say in the political shaping of our country. So I venture to say that you have no attempt or solution to improve on the lives of our people but simply, in the name of freedom of expression, to splash out the dirty linens of this Government and protray a tarnished image of our leaders and our country to the whole wide world. Am I right?
Perhaps your age reflects your impatience in the process of nature, although I have good friends younger than you - who are calmer, even tempered, humble, tolerant, observant, analytical, yeilding to good sense and logic, open to fair play.
Most of these characteristics are hardly found in most of the personalities claiming to be the Elite, Cadres and supposedly 'exclusive' Members of the Ruling Party - except for a few personalities in the Cabinet.
The Ruling Party has the benefit of more then 40 years in a position of monopoly in political power, which allowed them to be pervasive in the Lives of Singaporeans.
They have been able to achieve this by tinkering with the structures of the legal, social, economic and political systems; legislative, judiciary, and civil service; the security apparatus, and down to the grass root levels of Singapore communities.
Are you helping in the political process for a better Singapore when you condemn Opposition for their mindless attack WITHOUT PREPARATION, and at the same time also attack any effort to begin preparation at the basic level with the EDUCATION of Singaporeans in the Political Process at the most basic levels - such as in Forums ?
Have you not heard of aphorisms such as - 'Little Drops of Water Make an Ocean' - 'The Slow and Steady Will Win the Race' - 'There is No Smoke WITHOUT Fire' ?
Politics, as practised in Singapore, is already tarnished by the Leaders of the Ruling Party that form the Government - in the manner that they conduct politics, in the manner in which under the guise of National Security they will incarcerate a Political Opponent without trial and merely on the basis of the Personal View of A Supreme Person.
What I have done in this Forum is no less then what the Ruling Elite has done to the Personalities from the Opposition - which is EXPOSURE of Dirty Linen in the most PUBLIC MANNER.
At least the matters that I have raised are PUBLIC POLICY MATTERS, and these DO NOT even come close to the abhorrent display of PERSONAL ATTACKS made by the Leadership from the Ruling Party towards the Opposition Personalities and their Families.
Do they need your ardent defense ?
You are not convincing enough trying to repeat this line, which is a poor imitation of LKY.continuing post by thinkloud2004:thinkloud2004
>My agenda is to expose your real agenda.
In the first place, you have not shown any credible counter to the issues raised that will show the quality of your thought.
You have only shown your ability in baiting those who have posted views that are seen by you to be contrary to Government's Thinking.
What do you know of my real agenda, when you have no depth of knowledge to the issues raised in my posts ?
The Government have a big problem to worry, if those whom they employ to lecture to our younger Singaporeans cannot comprehend simple political issues, and will look at simple presentation of figures as being overwhelming mammoth. -
About the question on ERS, I guess I try to ask the question in another way
First, tis ERS is not a trade for increase in GST. Gov has already admitted the rise in GST is to filled up the lost in revenue made from cutting the tax of the rich corporate. They never made a point tat we r getting off better after the GST raise and ERS. They have made many emphasis tat ERS is only meant to "cushion" the impact on the rise of GST. Is true, ERS is just a lollipop. There is not argument tat Gov will earn more from the rise in GST. With these facts in mind, thinkloud ask this question,
Since the rise of GST is already imminent, isn't it better for Gov to give us ERS so as to cushion the impact on us ?
Why do u think everybody is not aware tat 400-500 cash is not going to help us much in the long run
-
Apologize for side tracking a littleÂ…
Stupidismart :
The having a temporary cushion package before the arrival of any new incoming impacts isnÂ’t exactly the optimum solution or buffer to any cost increment trend, my fellow forumite.
Ideally, there should be a strive for better alternatives that does not better products or services, at the main expense of the dominant low and middle income clusters everytime cost production factors or profit bottoms decline.
But at current, we do appear to have very little of them in action. -
To ST and Atobe
You are right ST....I was wrong to associate this with KTV singing. It should be a concert - with a few hundred participants looking at one singer practically holding on the microphone throughout. And like any other concerts, an occasional guest star is always welcome. Somewhat different lyrics albeit harping on the same tune - a refreshing change no doubt.
- since when have these words gotten a new meaning??
Look back at all the posts by Atobe and tell me whether the first 8 words in your sentence is sincere and honest. I am sure the original intention of this forum is not like this - one single writer splashing the pages with unabated skewed presentations of what he claims to be "education" and "awareness", occasionally punctuated with approving nods by a few others (not more than 4
in the last count). Do you call that "attracting so much fire?"
On the subject of fairness and justice. How do you measure? Who is the judge? Would we have been better off if things were done otherwise? Why didn't you say so before things were done? Are people happy? Lets not speculate as you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. We shall have to
wait till Polling Day.
<People do not oppose for the sake of opposing, just because the Ruling Party has to be knocked off it's throne, despite what they may like to egoistically claim (please, we have better things to do). The truth is, some of the way things are done make people go "what the..."> -
but my interpretation of Atobe's scripts thus far says otherwise.
Again we are entitled to our opinions so let the rest of the audience decide.
I have stated my agenda and I believe I have achieved my objective. In the process, I have leaned too much to the PAP and this may have incurred your wrath. I am ready for that when I decided to play the "devil's advocate". Your agenda is different from Atobe's and I do not wish to find out more. I respect your decision to be "unplugged" but I can remained "plugged" if I so wish, can't I?
You may not like this one but my solution is ---- if you don't have an
alternative or solution, shut up and accept things as they are (sorry if I offend more people, but then how?) If you want to say something about somebody, give him a chance to reply. What the audience wants is to witness a debate and then pass their verdict, not entertained by a duet who melodiously croons in harmony.
A political forum or a concert? The choice is yours.
Happy Monkey Year
thinkloud2004 -
Originally posted by thinkloud2004:
What ?
To ST and Atobe
You are right ST....I was wrong to associate this with KTV singing. It should be a concert - with a few hundred participants looking at one singer practically holding on the microphone throughout. And like any other concerts, an occasional guest star is always welcome. Somewhat different lyrics albeit harping on the same tune - a refreshing change no doubt.
[b] - since when have these words gotten a new meaning??
Look back at all the posts by Atobe and tell me whether the first 8 words in your sentence is sincere and honest. I am sure the original intention of this forum is not like this - one single writer splashing the pages with unabated skewed presentations of what he claims to be "education" and "awareness", occasionally punctuated with approving nods by a few others (not more than 4
in the last count). Do you call that "attracting so much fire?"
On the subject of fairness and justice. How do you measure? Who is the judge? Would we have been better off if things were done otherwise? Why didn't you say so before things were done? Are people happy? Lets not speculate as you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. We shall have to
wait till Polling Day.
<People do not oppose for the sake of opposing, just because the Ruling Party has to be knocked off it's throne, despite what they may like to egoistically claim (please, we have better things to do). The truth is, some of the way things are done make people go "what the..."> -
but my interpretation of Atobe's scripts thus far says otherwise.
Again we are entitled to our opinions so let the rest of the audience decide.
I have stated my agenda and I believe I have achieved my objective. In the process, I have leaned too much to the PAP and this may have incurred your wrath. I am ready for that when I decided to play the "devil's advocate". Your agenda is different from Atobe's and I do not wish to find out more. I respect your decision to be "unplugged" but I can remained "plugged" if I so wish, can't I?
You may not like this one but my solution is ---- if you don't have an
alternative or solution, shut up and accept things as they are (sorry if I offend more people, but then how?) If you want to say something about somebody, give him a chance to reply. What the audience wants is to witness a debate and then pass their verdict, not entertained by a duet who melodiously croons in harmony.
A political forum or a concert? The choice is yours.
Happy Monkey Year
thinkloud2004 [/b]
No more attempt to reply to the postings that have responded to all your bombastic efforts to defend the Ruling Party, but preferring to take another wide sweep of generalised and unsubstantiated claims ? Surely, your tertiary training demand more to justify your position even to be a 'Devil's Advocate' ?
Is this the best that you can come up with, as your departing shot ?
A friendly advise - it is unwise and dangerous for you to make a broad stroke of the brush that can tarnish a wide range of people who have placed some value in this Political Corner of sgForum.
Surely you must be more mature to realise this desparate and bankrupt effort of yours to defend your Political Idols ?
During the Year of the Goat, we have to deal with sheeps that prefer to be senselessly herded in any directions - as long as there is grass to fatten them, they will happily remain blind with the wool over their eyes, even as the rest is sheared off their body.
With the beginning of the Year of the Monkey, it looks like the sheep will give way to the antics of the monkeys.
Are we going to see a bunch of obediently dull minded monkeys to be kept performing to the tune of the Master Music Player, so as to be assured of bananas and peanuts to be paid ?
Are you aware of how the monkey is trained to work as 'coconuts pickers' and paid only peanuts, while the master walked to the bank with the profits from the sale of the coconuts ?
If this Political Corner is to be a KTV, so be it, we have at least begun to sing our hearts out, and with practise had built our lungs, voices, and confidence to appear on a bigger stage if need be.
At least we will not have our skulls cracked open by those with a penchant to 'crack skulls' on a knee jerk reaction.
All those obedient monkeys will have to beware of the 'skull crackers' - as they have also an appetite for 'Monkeys' Brains'.
A word of advise, Thinkloud2004, thinking loudly serves no purpose - as when one's thinking is so loud it can affect the brain, which then cannot distinguish the fine differences in sound quality.
You will then only hear all the sound as a cacophony of noises, and with no expert ability to discern the quality of the noises that can be appreciated as New Music.
You may wish to relook at the opinions of a Senior Civil Servant, with more years of experience than your upstart attitude have shown, and perhaps draw from his observation before attempting to try to put your feet into some shoes that are definitely too many sizes bigger.
Visit the thread 'Singapore Bigger than PAP - shouldn't it be ?' and if you care to include the Senior Civil Servant as our Chorus Master in this KTV room, we will know how much more to expect from obedient monkeys that only perform when music is played by the Master.
Definitely a Happy Monkey Year to you - beware of your Skull Cracking Master with a penchant for Monkey's Brains, and who expertly practise the fine art of "Filling the Stomach, to Dull the Brain". -
The lengths to which people can go to justify having their uniqueness and an individual trampled and willing submit to grossly unfair procedures with the faint reward of peanuts never fails to amaze me.
And yes, this forum is no assualt on the PAP, I don't have a bone to pick with them for being white men, the bone is picked with the way things they are doing. Apparently if you have a problem with that then I assume that if you were in Germany in 1942 and were aware of the concentration camps, they should be condoned as part of being obedient and not raising questions to the ruling party. This kind of dull brained "live and let's not think" unquestioning obedience to "they've helped us rise" authority mentality to life cost 6 million Jews and other minorities their lives.
After all which German of your kind would question the nazi party, having afforded them a comfortable life and brought Germany out of the mud? Maybe you would go as far as to argue that there is no judge to justify the injustice of gettos and concentration camps?
The PAP is certainly nowhere near on par with the Nazis when it comes to evil, but claiming such a clean, transparent and orderly democratic system, I'm amazed they think scrunity and critism of their ways can be destablizing and contray to democracy...
Ahem, if you think this is a KTV of concert, have you been aware that you are probably a member of a much larger, far more nonsensical... and nosier concert of the ruling party? Apparently, noise, and not sense matters to you.
But then again, I'm hardly surprised of the crass labels coming from your overheated gun barrels, after all, you do show us that you have done your homework in following the ways of your idols, when unable to outreason with logic, switch to vague, sweeping and of course, irrevelant labels sung ad nausuem to discredit your opponent without ever addressing the real issue.
While I may not agree with what you are saying, I will certainly defend to the death your right to say it, it appears that your approach is to take your ruling idol's approach of "I may not agree with what you are saying... I will put to the death your right to say it" -
Dear Mr Atobe
Where is your proposed solution ? You do not have one and all you have done is to pick on my other lines and make paragraphs out of it.
First you made a mockery of my occupation and then passed insinuations on my education. Then you talked about my age and username with disdain. Even the monkeys are brought into the picture. Obviously your replies are centered around my profile in a bid to discredit me and evade the real issue we are supposed to be debating on. Aren't you guilty of character assassinations, something that you once openly deplored.
Your message is plain and simple to the audience, "I am now telling you all what you should know about LKY and this Government. You had better listen and agree or else I whack you". Your ultimate aim is to kick out the PAP Government but you don't know how so the next best thing is to kick anybody who supports them. And those who are highly educated or holding high posts deserve a bigger kick because they are the high-end product of this Government.
What if I tell you I am not a lecturer?
Wouldn't all your insults and innuendos against me be null and void? Or it doesn't matter - so long as it is somebody saying something in support of the Government, he is guilty in your own trial court. Obviously you have had suffered much under this regime and are using this forum to get back at the system which you otherwise cannot. A few supportive voices will be a bonus and any spoilsport must be hammered flat.
I am not interested in what you state yourself to be in your profile. It is through your postings that I decide who and what you are. In any case, your naivety and mentality to see things at face value demonstrates that you cannot discern scenarios beyond what you think is gospel truth, probably blinded by mindless hatred or severe neurosis. Blame the Government for that. Little wonder you are easily deceived by the mammoth figures that you gleefully churned out. And little wonder you can only hide in this place and with a pseudonym, pour out your contempt and disgust knowing full well that the very people you are alleging against cannot and do not reply you.
Go back to your circle game and hopefully the "Game Over" button is not lit. Or continue with your solo performance. However, the audience will not share your sentiments as enthusiastically as before because like me, many are quite confirmed who they suspect you to be. No encore for you. And my job is done.
I shall now visit the other threads you recommended. I sure hope it is not another solo performance concert like this one.
thinkloud2004 -
It's amazing how you can turn a simple statement into a multi-paragraph of disconnected gibberish, basically let's hear your cry broken down into several simple points:
1) You are insignificant
2) Any form of critique of The Party stems from hate/neurosis/(insert vice)
3) If you don't agree with me you are a KTV singer or any other childish label I can think of.
4) It's not about reason, logic, or justic here, it's about rethoric.
5) Don't even think of rocking the boat as you are all too small.
Okay... I got it...
Sadly I must say that Adobe's supposed "sliming" of your character is hardly unwarranted, illogical, or unjustified.
While you may criticize people who question the figurative status quo as SOBS tellers, KTV singers and Abobe worshippers which I obviously disagree with, the most amazing thing I see is how a person who claims to be intelligent, articuate or logical enough to be worthy of posting here (and believe me the standards aren't so high), are promoting the pratice of switching off and allowing The Party to do our thinking for us as any resistence must be ill-intentioned.
Have you questioned if The Party's resistence to implementing change was ill-intentioned and not carried out with the people's interest in mind?
Finally you have been blasting us for well, blasting The Party, prehaps you would be so kind as to indulge us in telling us in all the raised issues, where have they done RIGHT or JUSTICE? Has the critique here been unfair to them? Or is your beef with them simply because they are mammoth and not because they are actually untrue?
Nazi concentration camps are mammoth as well, do we look the other way and pretend they don't exist because they are too big and bad? Do we accuse those who insist on seeing the truth for it is as paranoid nazi-haters?
If you think that all these "mammoth" figures on the issues revealed are just SOBS, you demostrate an nearly incomprehensible ability for apathy to the budern the typical Singaporean suffers in working for a country he has no say in the fate in, and is constantly indebted to for no other reason because he was born in it. Do we own our sucess to the PAP, or our forefathers? Are we just getting measured, tiny portions of the Singapore sucess pie and eating all the rubbish when things go bad while the upper class rides cushioning their backsides using our backs? You go think for yourself before you yell out on why some insignificant people are disgrunted...
KTVs, Concerts, showbiz, and whatever are irrevelent to me, what I want is the truth and reason. And if that truth and reason can be found in what you like to a concert, so be it. Better to know reason and truth in whatever way then to carry on in "dignified" ignorance. -
To my dear fellow Singaporean, 'thinkloud2004',
Trust that you will calm down, and not allow your thoughts to be louder to cloud your mind, to the extent that it block out the impressions received from your eyes, which result in forcing yourself to see only what your thoughts prefer.
Clearly now, it seems that either you are incapable of reading simple English from the posts of my reply, or it seems that in your anxiety - to wear the boots of a 'Devil's Advocate' to demolish my position - you simply cannot discern the 'trees from the forests'.Originally posted by thinkloud2004:Dear Mr Atobe
Where is your proposed solution ? You do not have one and all you have done is to pick on my other lines and make paragraphs out of it.
Will you revisit my post on Page 2 of this thread, dated 21 January 2004 · 03:46 AM ?
No one can help you in this forum, if you do not wish to, or simply cannot, absorb what has been printed in this sgForums.continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Have I avoided any issues that you have raised in your challenges to my postings ?
First you made a mockery of my occupation and then passed insinuations on my education. Then you talked about my age and username with disdain. Even the monkeys are brought into the picture. Obviously your replies are centered around my profile in a bid to discredit me and evade the real issue we are supposed to be debating on. Aren't you guilty of character assassinations, something that you once openly deplored.
I believe that I have responded to nearly each and every oblique challenges that you have made, which simply scraped the issues at a tangent, and which you have not made any contributions to show how I have been wrong in the issues raised.
Your efforts had been incredulous and I would have let it passed had your profile indicated that you are a STUDENT.
Since you claimed to be a LECTURER, and from the contents of your approach to the issues raised, it was a welcome challenge to engage you in an exchange of your position that you have taken.
Not only did I bring up the 'Monkeys' that have been trained so well to pluck coconuts for the wage of peanuts, while the Masters laughed their way to the bank with the profits from the sale of the coconut; you had missed the wool that were shorn off the sheep, ignorant to the event, as the wool have been deliberately left to cover their eyes.
As much as you have made an effort to bait me and to demolish my position, so as to discredit me as another useless opposition supporter, surely you will allow me the same privilege that you have claimed for yourself to be a 'Devil's Advocate' so as to expose my 'hidden Agenda' - as you have claimed ?
Are you now taking this right of response from me in the same form that you prefer ?continuing post by thinkloud2004:
No one can help you if you insist on reading more then what you see.
Your message is plain and simple to the audience, "I am now telling you all what you should know about LKY and this Government. You had better listen and agree or else I whack you". Your ultimate aim is to kick out the PAP Government but you don't know how so the next best thing is to kick anybody who supports them. And those who are highly educated or holding high posts deserve a bigger kick because they are the high-end product of this Government.
If you prefer to see the shadows behind each alphabet that form the words printed, you may end up seeing ghosts in every shadow, as you walk in the streets even on a bright sunny day.
As an individual, can I actually kick anybody out, much more the eminently entrenched and more omnipotent PAP Government, when more illustrious figures - that included the famous David Marshall - have failed ?
You write too highly of me and my abilities.
Certainly, it is a FREE Right for each and every Singaporean to be involve in the politics of Singapore; this right is available FREE on the day of birth of each and every Singaporean born in Singapore, or abroad and registered as a Singapore Citizen.
It is the FREE Right to be involve in Singapore Politics that the Ruling Party has claimed to be a Privilege, so as to allow themselves the exclusive opportunity to dispense only to those whom they feel will not affect their political security.
The process of being involved is to be awaken to the issues, understanding the issues, debate and discuss, research into the events for facts and truth, and offer alternative solutions for the present and future interests of Singapore.
Surely you do not believe that it is the preordained and exclusive right of the PAP to be the ONLY Political Party to be involved with politics for the interest of Singapore ?
Surely, as an educated person, you will NOT believe that it is the preordained and exclusive rights of those few families with 'WH' labels to be in a position of perpetual political power ?
Surely, you DO NOT BELIEVE that it is the exclusive turf of the PAP to have the interest of Singapore at heart, and that any opposing views different from that of the PAP is treachery to Singapore ?
Those who are higher educated ought to be kicked if they can only behave like sheeps being herded unthinkingly by the Shepherds in any directions as long as there are green pastures, and ignorant to the fact that the Shepherds is enriching themselves from the wool that is shorn off their bodies.
Those who are higher educated ought to be kicked, when they silently and willingly accept their role as dull minded monkeys dancing to the tune of the musicians profitting from their labor in exchange for peanuts.continuing post by thinkloud2004:
If you are not a lecturer, why claim to be one in your profile ?
What if I tell you I am not a lecturer?
Wouldn't all your insults and innuendos against me be null and void? Or it doesn't matter - so long as it is somebody saying something in support of the Government, he is guilty in your own trial court. Obviously you have had suffered much under this regime and are using this forum to get back at the system which you otherwise cannot. A few supportive voices will be a bonus and any spoilsport must be hammered flat.
A zebra cannot change its stripes, and even if born again, it will have those same zebra stripes that is unique and exclusive to this breed of animal - even if the pattern may vary to each zebra.
I will welcome your effort if you will engage me on points of issues raised, and not try to play with innuendoes or making obvious attempt to bait me further without engaging on issues raised ?
You have not responded to any single issues that I have raised, which you brushed off as 'Dirty Linen'; and which only resulted in your ardent effort to defend the Ruling Party and the Government - by using cliches used by the Ruling Party and Government to discredit anyone daring to stand up to offer alternative views.
It was your own admission that you prefer to take on the role of a 'Devil's Advocate' to discredit my postings and ultimately my personna.
Did I try to whack you into silence, or am I simply returning you the same favor that you have extended to me ?
Does participation in this sgForums and taking the opposing views indicate that I have suffered much under this regime ? -
continuing post by thinkloud2004:
How can you know of my profile, when I prefer to be non-descript ?
I am not interested in what you state yourself to be in your profile. It is through your postings that I decide who and what you are. In any case, your naivety and mentality to see things at face value demonstrates that you cannot discern scenarios beyond what you think is gospel truth, probably blinded by mindless hatred or severe neurosis. Blame the Government for that. Little wonder you are easily deceived by the mammoth figures that you gleefully churned out. And little wonder you can only hide in this place and with a pseudonym, pour out your contempt and disgust knowing full well that the very people you are alleging against cannot and do not reply you.
It amazes me when you pronounced that you wish to expose my REAL AGENDA, when you have no inkling of what or where you are heading with your efforts.
Have you bitten off more then you can chew ?
Education helps a person to think, to discern facts from falsehood.
Facts cannot be made up, they are in the figures.
Errors in interpreting the facts can happen, by different interpretations to those same set of figures - as had happened when the NUS Lecturers clashed with the Minister of Manpower on the highly publicised report concerning the high numbers of foreign workers being employed in Singapore during this time of high unemployment of Singaporean.
Prove me wrong on those figures that I claimed to be facts, and you will have served your privileged position of being a highly educated Singaporean.continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Perhaps you think that this discourse is but a game, which will explain for your callous approach in handling the issues raised.
Go back to your circle game and hopefully the "Game Over" button is not lit. Or continue with your solo performance. However, the audience will not share your sentiments as enthusiastically as before because like me, many are quite confirmed who they suspect you to be. No encore for you. And my job is done.
Unfortunately, you have overlooked that this is not a solo performance, as you have ignored ST; and those whom you claimed as my 'audience' will already show that this cannot be a solo effort on my part.
You will have to be in a clear mind to discern this simple reality, or you will continuously contradict yourself.
If you believe this is merely a game, then it will be easier for you to press the 'EXIT' button instead of waiting for the 'GAME OVER'.continuing post by thinkloud2004:
The thread 'SINGAPORE BIGGER THEN PAP - shouldn't it be ?' will be a SOLO performance, from a retired Senior Civil Servant.
I shall now visit the other threads you recommended. I sure hope it is not another solo performance concert like this one.
thinkloud2004
Hopefully, you will dig deeper on the issues raised by him, and perhaps prove him wrong with some research, and not simply jump into your own conclusions based on your limited exposure to the events of the last forty years. -
It's also interesting to note that being the "devil's advocate" results in you losing your soul.
But in your desperation to win over Adobe, you apparently do not mind giving up your human capacity and right for free thought, will, political involment and of course, your soul.
But I'm not sure yelling nonsense at higher and higher levels is going to cut it in here, we deal with facts here, not conspiracy theories and marxist plots to overthrow the govt.
If you have no response for the facts and issues raised, I suggest you salvage what little intellectual intergity you have left, turn off your heavy metal concert, and retreat to quiet place where you can form proper thoughts for once...