Give with one Right Hand, Take back with two Lefts
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WHY ACCUSE IN THIS FORUM? This forum is hosted by a Singapore-registered company. Any such accusations doesn't go down well with the PAPOriginally posted by Atobe:First, the supposedly generous handout of ERS shares is to dampen the increase of another ONE PERCENT to the 4 Percent GST, bringing it to an all time high of 5 Percent GST to be effective from January 1, 2004.
Did the Government sanctioned 'Opposition back benchers' - (from its own 'Pay And Pay' Political Party) - raise any EFFECTIVE objections to such increases GST and Domestic Electricity Charges at this time when deep cuts are made to salaries and CPF, and with more then 5 Percent Unemployment still continuing in Singapore ?
Happy New Year to All who still believe in the infallible politics and governance of the 'Pay And Pay' Party.
govt.
You will get the
forum-hosting company into unnecessary trouble. Why do you not post in foreign-hosted websites? At least, the PAP govt will not be able to influence your web-host at all.
Happy New Year.
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Greetings all, I have read with much enthusiasm the tirades between atobe/st and thinkloud. I must say both sides have put up a colourful display of thoughts as well as language I sometimes wish my fellow singaporeans could produce more often. Watching from a neutral stance, i would now pose this question to both parties: What would be the next steps to take to bring this issue to the voters?
Honestly, I'm sick and tired of watching people like u guys not get their voices heard when they need to be. But i must admit that watching you guys debate with much enthusiasm comforts me to know that not all the sheep in the herd are without thought. Kudos to all!![/quote] -
Since when did Singapore-owned company = PAP-owned company? The day when Singaporeans have to run to forum avenues to raise questions, that'll be the day we have the internet banned.Originally posted by groundnut:WHY ACCUSE IN THIS FORUM? This forum is hosted by a Singapore-registered company. Any such accusations doesn't go down well with the PAP govt.
You will get the forum-hosting company into unnecessary trouble. Why do you not post in foreign-hosted websites? At least, the PAP govt will not be able to influence your web-host at all.
Happy New Year. -
What is a 'Forum' ?Originally posted by groundnut:WHY ACCUSE IN THIS FORUM? This forum is hosted by a Singapore-registered company. Any such accusations doesn't go down well with the PAP govt.
You will get the forum-hosting company into unnecessary trouble. Why do you not post in foreign-hosted websites? At least, the PAP govt will not be able to influence your web-host at all.
Happy New Year.
From the meaning given in a dictionary, 'Forum' is a place or medium for open discussion, judicial inquest (as held in the days of the Public Forum in Ancient Roman times), a public meeting or presentation of ideas that will involve discussions, and with active audience participation.
From the same dictionary, 'Accuse' is to make announcement of a charge of wrong doing or error or short coming.
From the same dictionary, 'Criticism' is the practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating literary or other works.
Is there a difference between 'Accusations' and 'Criticism' ?
Does any criticism goes well with anyone in Singapore that has a thin skin ?
Shall we be clear of what your post will mean, as by the 'tone' of your use of the word 'Accuse' - accompanied by the following text of your post - it insinuates I need to fear and to have concern for the host of this sgForums due to my postings having some degree of malice, ill intent, evil, enmity, grudge, hatred, hatefulness, hostility.
I find your position to be odd, that I should post my thoughts on issues concerning OUR SINGAPORE in a foreign hosted web-site, when our Singapore Government have strongly objected to Foreigners interfering in Local Politics.
Who do you intend to get into bigger trouble ?
I find it strange in your line of thinking and wonder if the zebra has reincarnate in spirit into another form ? -
Support and EDUCATE the main personnalities of the existing Opposition Parties.Originally posted by Farmer Brown:Greetings all, I have read with much enthusiasm the tirades between atobe/st and thinkloud. I must say both sides have put up a colourful display of thoughts as well as language I sometimes wish my fellow singaporeans could produce more often. Watching from a neutral stance, i would now pose this question to both parties: What would be the next steps to take to bring this issue to the voters?
Honestly, I'm sick and tired of watching people like u guys not get their voices heard when they need to be. But i must admit that watching you guys debate with much enthusiasm comforts me to know that not all the sheep in the herd are without thought. Kudos to all!![/quote]
If one cannot even bear to talk to them without losing one's selfrespect after having condemned the Opposition, one can still ENGAGE them in debate so as to transfer the same information to the Main Personalities of the Opposition.
This is the best solution IF the PRESENT TIME is not ripe to set up a New Political Party - as to be effective as an Opposition Party, one must have the Financial Strength to prepare for an onslaught of legal suits that MUST be expected from the Ruling Party, one must have like minded persons to form an A-Team; one must definitely have a strong supportive staff in the areas of Research, Administrative, Organisational, Legal, and Managerial. -
Seems Atobe's got his idea of setting up something. As u can tell by my words in this and other threads, i;m moving in the direction of supporting the rise of an opposition that will challenge (not topple) the dominance of the PAP on the political front.
Count me in if something comes up yah? -
It has been a wonderful holiday. The last few days that I been around this little island of ours, I witnessed cheers, fulfilment and happiness everywhere. Despite the rain, the mood remained undampened - for locals and foreigners alike - all basking in the exhilarating condition created by Singaporeans under the able leadership of .......ooops!
Now that I have a little leisure time, let me inject some provoking thoughts to this otherwise mundane circle game dominated by a few.
To Mr Atobe - I think I am finished with you. If your definiton of fire power and ammunition is to pass insults and innuendos on your opponent's occupation, education, age (genuine or otherwise) and even his username, then I admit that I do not have such fire power. Unless and until you come up with a solution that you think will improve the lives of the population at large, I have nothing to debate with you.
To Mr ST - You have deviated from your usual relatively mild philosophical stance. Obviously my remarks against Mr Atobe has had reflected aptly on you just as his remarks had hit on the educated and successful. Your faint spark of an "Option B" has been extinguished following your rather unceremonious outburst. It is only natural that any salesman be fuming mad when his potential customer is dissuaded from buying by a third person who offers a
second opinon on the merchandise. More angry when the item being offered is but a recycled product and the customer is so close to parting his money. At least the desperate salesman has something concrete to offer. What do you have? Thank goodness I am not engaged in a coffee shop talk with you or you would have resort to expletives just to make me agree with you, similar to the Ah Pek who defends with his life (or whatever is left) any challenge to his life-long belief that "Pay And Pay is no good".
If anything, this concert has grown - in the audience size as well as the virtual performers. Mr Atobe had called in the animals of Animal Farm. He then invited the monkeys on the first day of CNY. The last I saw was a zebra galloping into the scene. As for you, you have summoned the American Infidels, the NAZI troops and the MATRIX characters. What next? The United Nations? Nobody told me that Animal Planet and Cinemax have merged. Anyway, I believe it will be plenty of fun and excitment for the audience. I shall now leave you two with your show business and split the profits of your merged entity, if any. As for me I have more meaningful things to do than to hammer on the keyboard day and night.
As for newcomers who just joined this audience, do spend sometime on the thread "Singaporeans are fools" originated by Relevation. That was how this started. May you be the better judge.
thinkloud2004 -
Originally posted by thinkloud2004:
It looks as if the Year of the Monkey will be as mischevious as it is predicted to be, especially when it is said to be from the 'metal' element - according to the Chinese Zodiac and Astrology.
It has been a wonderful holiday. The last few days that I been around this little island of ours, I witnessed cheers, fulfilment and happiness everywhere. Despite the rain, the mood remained undampened - for locals and foreigners alike - all basking in the exhilarating condition created by Singaporeans under the able leadership of .......ooops!
Now that I have a little leisure time, let me inject some provoking thoughts to this otherwise mundane circle game dominated by a few.
To Mr Atobe - I think I am finished with you. If your definiton of fire power and ammunition is to pass insults and innuendos on your opponent's occupation, education, age (genuine or otherwise) and even his username, then I admit that I do not have such fire power. Unless and until you come up with a solution that you think will improve the lives of the population at large, I have nothing to debate with you.
To Mr ST - You have deviated from your usual relatively mild philosophical stance. Obviously my remarks against Mr Atobe has had reflected aptly on you just as his remarks had hit on the educated and successful. Your faint spark of an "Option B" has been extinguished following your rather unceremonious outburst. It is only natural that any salesman be fuming mad when his potential customer is dissuaded from buying by a third person who offers a
second opinon on the merchandise. More angry when the item being offered is but a recycled product and the customer is so close to parting his money. [b]At least the desperate salesman has something concrete to offer. What do you have? Thank goodness I am not engaged in a coffee shop talk with you or you would have resort to expletives just to make me agree with you, similar to the Ah Pek who defends with his life (or whatever is left) any challenge to his life-long belief that "Pay And Pay is no good".
If anything, this concert has grown - in the audience size as well as the virtual performers. Mr Atobe had called in the animals of Animal Farm. He then invited the monkeys on the first day of CNY. The last I saw was a zebra galloping into the scene. As for you, you have summoned the American Infidels, the NAZI troops and the MATRIX characters. What next? The United Nations? Nobody told me that Animal Planet and Cinemax have merged. Anyway, I believe it will be plenty of fun and excitment for the audience. I shall now leave you two with your show business and split the profits of your merged entity, if any. As for me I have more meaningful things to do than to hammer on the keyboard day and night.
As for newcomers who just joined this audience, do spend sometime on the thread "Singaporeans are fools" originated by Relevation. That was how this started. May you be the better judge.
thinkloud2004
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Mischiefs can be created, especially when one does not wish to engage but prefer to skirt around the issues, playing with words, boxing with the imagined shadows.
You continue to ask for a reply to your challenge, and this will be the third time that I am pointing you to one of my reply to the MANY ISSUES that you refused to engage in.
You have asked for solutions - I have responded, but you refused to engage. Will you revisit my post on Page 2 of this thread, dated 21 January 2004 · 03:46 AM - or you just do not have the expertise to get deeper into the issues ?
Why 'skip around the boxing ring' and continue to bear the brunt of my stinging responses that expose the weakness of your feeble efforts to knock me off my post ?
Is this the best you can perform trying to fill the shoes of a 'Devil's Advocate' ?
Perhaps you need a few more years of learning from the Senior Civil Servant, as you do not seem to have picked up anything from his published views in 'Singapore is Bigger than the PAP - shouldn't it be ?'
Now that you have rested over the Lunar New Year holidays, will you go back to the posts that await you as mentioned in this thread, as well as in the posts by Relevation in his thread - 'Singaporean are Fools' ?
Or do you wish to continue to simply make only snide remarks that are empty in substance and content, and simply will not dare to engage with any response to the Real Issues that you have protested so much about ?
Patience is in abundance while waiting for your intelligent response, if any is forthcoming. -
Ditto.
I was about the type a long response, but why tell a person something so obvious twice?
Amazingly, you are still wondering why I have no new "products" to entertain you with. Apparently it hasn't been apparent to you that you have failed to even touch any of the issues raised and are now asking for more? That isn't going to cut it dude.
I have already presented what I had to present, and you have been quite sediously and tediously avoiding the issue, and to quote Adobe, "boxing with shadows" instead of facing your opponents head on. I find it quite amazing to you that the S.O.B.S of injustice, misplaced trust, organized repression and exploitation not worthy of addressing just because they are the "same old story".
Do you not represent the demographic of entertainment seekers with hypershort attention spans... with no real bearing with life but waiting for their next quick fix to allow them to get their shots off and feel important? In short, a hot head filled so full of hot air but with nothing solid to offer. A true rebel without a cause.
And by the way vulgarities are not quite my style, I prefer dealing with truth, logic and reason something of which you patently fail to apply in your responses, choosing to draw flowery abstract pictures to paint your counterparts into a frame of your understanding, but I'm afriad it dosen't work that way.
Maybe it is time for you to reconsider your style of debating here? I'm afraid unlike govt. backed debates, there is a level playing field here and selling flowerly visual paintings to belittle your opponents, while a time honoured tradition with The Party, does little good here, especially when there is a ton of evidence flying agains't you.
I encourage you to revisit my previous posts, they have already replied to your responses by far. Amazingly, you have completely failed to respond to any of them. Wait.. why not I give you a concession? Unlike you, I would not be as to be so unkind as to demand an answer from you, those the questions I have raised require an answer, could could work on Adobe's points first.
Conversely, you could contuine to employ your stick-in-ears-and-sing-same-"I cannot hear you, you are a dork" ad nausem, but it's no great intellectual loss to Singapore here. -
first animals, then salesmen
ok whats next? -
To borrow a term from the many derogatory terms used by LKY against his nemesis - the Honorable Joshua Benjamin Jeyaratnam, ex-Secretary General of the Workers' Party:Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:first animals, then salesmen ok whats next?
Will you consider the term 'Charlatan' to describe someone who pretend to be what he cannot or will never be ?
The meaning of the word 'Charlatan' -
One who prates much in his own favor, and makes unwarrantable pretensions; a quack; an impostor;
a flamboyant deceiver; one who attracts customers with tricks or jokes
The meaning of the word: 'Prates'
To talk idly and at length;
To utter idly or to little purpose,
Empty, foolish, or trivial talk; idle chatter -
Just an empirical observation. The festive mood seems to have evaporated. The coffeeshops, the shopping malls and other places were abuzz just before CNY. I wonder where the buzz has gone.
If I may even attempt to describe as subjective a thing as the overall mood I observe around me, I can only say that it is rather subdued.
Back to the harsh realities of life, I'd suppose. Hang on tight, it just might get even worse - and worse. -
The Lull Before the Storm.............
As more optimistic comments pour forth from the Leaders, that events are expected to improve, unemployment situation may improve, we will have to prepare for the worst to be expected.
What is the point of feeling good, when the immediate reality is that the take home budget is becoming tighter ?
As income and savings are shrunk, the costs are increased by nibbling inches that allow the various Government agencies and GLCs to receive an avalanche into their already large cash hoardings.
See thread - 'If Stat Boards hold $33 billion' - 23 January 2004.. -
So the truth is out, that newsprint prices will be increased but only by 25% (from US$40 per tonne to US$50), and only apply to shipments during April 2004.
Yet our SPH has raised subscribers' price by 17 Percent - from 60cts to 70cts; and newstand prices by 33.33 Percent - from 60cts to 80cts
Both price increases taking effect from 1 February 2004, when the new price for newsprint raw materials come into effect only during April 2004 - their current stocks at old prices will probably last them for at least three months.
The protests from CASE Singapore seems to have fizzled out, as the President of CASE is probably no match to the heavyweight of the Political Personality at SPH.
PanAsia raises newsprint prices for Asia
PUBLICATION paper supplier PanAsia Paper announced yesterday that newsprint prices to its Asian export markets will increase to US$50 (S$84.20) per tonne from US$40 currently.
Fuelling this rise is strong demand in the region along with rising costs of production, it said. Projected economic growth in Asia is expected to result in greater advertising spending, newspaper pagination and newsprint consumption.
PanAsia chief sales officer Hannes Skisaker said: 'The global supply and demand balance for newsprint is improving. Since the beginning of the third quarter of last year, we have seen an increase in demand for our products.'
Similarly, cost factors are pushing prices upwards. Raw materials, such as energy and waste paper are becoming more expensive, while the decline of the US dollar has made transactions within Asia relatively dearer.
'After a prolonged period of depressed pricing for newsprint products, we sincerely hope our customers understand our need to raise prices as overall business conditions improve,' said Mr Andre van Hattum, president and chief executive of PanAsia.
PanAsia currently markets about 500,000 tonnes of newsprint and other products from North America, Europe and Oceania.
The price rise will be effective for shipments made from April. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
er...... i don't get the point of all this?
So the truth is out, that newsprint prices will be increased but only by 25% (from US$40 per tonne to US$50), and only apply to shipments during April 2004.
Yet our SPH has raised subscribers' price by 17 Percent - from 60cts to 70cts; and newstand prices by 33.33 Percent - from 60cts to 80cts
Both price increases taking effect from 1 February 2004, when the new price for newsprint raw materials come into effect only during April 2004 - their current stocks at old prices will probably last them for at least three months.
The protests from CASE Singapore seems to have fizzled out, as the President of CASE is probably no match to the heavyweight of the Political Personality at SPH.
[b]PanAsia raises newsprint prices for Asia
PUBLICATION paper supplier PanAsia Paper announced yesterday that newsprint prices to its Asian export markets will increase to US$50 (S$84.20) per tonne from US$40 currently.
Fuelling this rise is strong demand in the region along with rising costs of production, it said. Projected economic growth in Asia is expected to result in greater advertising spending, newspaper pagination and newsprint consumption.
PanAsia chief sales officer Hannes Skisaker said: 'The global supply and demand balance for newsprint is improving. Since the beginning of the third quarter of last year, we have seen an increase in demand for our products.'
Similarly, cost factors are pushing prices upwards. Raw materials, such as energy and waste paper are becoming more expensive, while the decline of the US dollar has made transactions within Asia relatively dearer.
'After a prolonged period of depressed pricing for newsprint products, we sincerely hope our customers understand our need to raise prices as overall business conditions improve,' said Mr Andre van Hattum, president and chief executive of PanAsia.
PanAsia currently markets about 500,000 tonnes of newsprint and other products from North America, Europe and Oceania.
The price rise will be effective for shipments made from April.
[/b]
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like old army song goes: give you $100, take back $99......before GST 5% & CPF contribution deduction.....
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Newsprint is actually the Raw Materials needed to print newspapers, and the price for this raw material will be increased from US$40 per tonne to US$50 - which is an increase of only TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT, and will be effective for shipments in APRIL 2004.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:er...... i don't get the point of all this?
Yet our Singapore Newspapers - English Chinese, Malay - have already increased prices by THIRTY PERCENT on February 2004.
For an operation such as Newspaper production, raw materials will be consumed daily and are subject to fluctuations that are normal for high PRIZED commodity - wth its availability being subjected to forces of nature, it is quite normal that stocks are held for at least one to three months production, and advance orders are placed two to hree months ahead at the OLD PRICES. -
i see , but i'm not against the ST increasing it price, its just that i feel , 20 cents is just too much, its obviously forcing us to subscribe to STOriginally posted by Atobe:Newsprint is actually the Raw Materials needed to print newspapers, and the price for this raw material will be increased from US$40 per tonne to US$50 - which is an increase of only TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT, and will be effective for shipments in APRIL 2004.
Yet our Singapore Newspapers - English Chinese, Malay - have already increased prices by THIRTY PERCENT on February 2004.
For an operation such as Newspaper production, raw materials will be consumed daily and are subject to fluctuations that are normal for high PRIZED commodity - wth its availability being subjected to forces of nature, it is quite normal that stocks are held for at least one to three months production, and advance orders are placed two to hree months ahead at the OLD PRICES.