Singaporean talents leaving to other countries
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Good one, Azrael!Originally posted by AzRaeL:Many animals do not breed in captivity.
Why do you think Singapore's birth rate is one of the lowest in the World?
Nismos, this conversation isn't exactly new - at the end of 1994, there was a group of us having a very similar conversation to this. Things unfortunately haven't changed much in 9 years. Incidentally, of the six of us talking back in 1994, 1 is in Canada, 1 is in Geneva, 2 are in Australia and the remaining 2 are on their way to Oz. -
Haven't you answered your own question?Originally posted by :To my dismay, I know tons of people, my own friends or friend's friends are all leaving Singapore to work in foreign countries. Most of them already have their green cards and PR citizenships or in the process of doing so, while earning a big salary and a comfortable lifestyle.
So why are people leaving their hometown?
Big house, better standard of living, good salary?!!
What is the point of asking when you already know.
Are you dismayed that they left because you do not have the opportunity to? Or you are truly a lover of the country? -
there isn't much freedom here...politically speaking. besides the local culture is still growing and not matured yet. a lot unhealthy and childish attitude even from the educated, the adults. the ruckus at Joo Chiat is one classic example.Originally posted by :To my dismay, I know tons of people, my own friends or friend's friends are all leaving Singapore to work in foreign countries. Most of them already have their green cards and PR citizenships or in the process of doing so, while earning a big salary and a comfortable lifestyle.
So why are people leaving their hometown?
besides if there's opportunity to earn more outside. why not? -
on a more serious tone, our system, the capitalist system is planned and designed by and for the elites, the elitist system. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the very people who are sitting on it are still sitting around. This system is to protect the very people who designed it...so the middle and lower class people are more badly affected.
on the surface it may seem that we're being cared for by the gahmen...but..how much truth is in it? I don't know. Perhaps no one can give a good answer either. But we can see and feel the effects. If the system is good, our own ppl wouldn't be leaving and not coming back, our birthrate wouldn't go so low so prematurely (afterall we're still a "developing nation")
more importantly, it's more of the individual opinion of whether or not they like it here in singapore..there can be no agreement or disagreement. only the emigration statistics. -
this is not a uniquely singaporean problem, but a problem commonly faced by those in developed countries. look at japan, france, germany.Originally posted by AzRaeL:Many animals do not breed in captivity.
Why do you think Singapore's birth rate is one of the lowest in the World?
it's simply a by product of an industrialised lifestyle, where people are more concerned with materials needs than their mating instinct (sex and having kids is different). -
5 years from now the dragon king will be dancing with the grim reaper.Originally posted by AzRaeL:5 years from now, the Dragon Prince will be in charge, the nation held in the grip of his talons.
Leave now while you can. -
yes, we're whipping the badly decomposed carcass of the horse here.Originally posted by Gedanken:Good one, Azrael!
Nismos, this conversation isn't exactly new - at the end of 1994, there was a group of us having a very similar conversation to this. Things unfortunately haven't changed much in 9 years. Incidentally, of the six of us talking back in 1994, 1 is in Canada, 1 is in Geneva, 2 are in Australia and the remaining 2 are on their way to Oz.
but leaving does not solve anything.
i've always wanted to live in the countryside, and it's a life i believe i will be living in half a decade's time, but Singapore is still my home, and i have no intention of leaving permanently.
my belief is that every man counts. if i can spread my ideas and influence just 1 other person, that's more than enough for me. i'm willing to stay and work for the betterment of my country and countrymen, no matter which government is ruling it. -
Ah, but Nismos, leaving doesn't solve anything for this society. It does, however, work out in favour of the individual who finds greener pastures.
This society is led by a narcissistic government, and is in great part composed of narcissistic people, as evidenced by some of the responses here and in other threads involving similar topics. Trying to improve it is like trying to save an Irishman from drowning in a whiskey distellery. -
Are you that sure? I've lived, worked and studied overseas for a number of years. While it undoubtedly has its own pitfalls, I think life there is much better.Originally posted by StayFocus:agreed...try living outside for acouple of years..still think Singapore is better.
Care to share your experiences to qualify your argument? -
But the Dragon Prince will still be around. Thats bad enough.Originally posted by nismoS132:5 years from now the dragon king will be dancing with the grim reaper. -
Originally posted by nismoS132:
A very noble ideal Nismo, and one that I used to believe in. But with the way the way the country is run society is structured here, with government involvement, do the terms "trying to stop the tide" and "pissing in the wind" describe your efforts?
yes, we're whipping the badly decomposed carcass of the horse here.
but leaving does not solve anything.
i've always wanted to live in the countryside, and it's a life i believe i will be living in half a decade's time, but Singapore is still my home, and i have no intention of leaving permanently.
my belief is that every man counts. if i can spread my ideas and influence just 1 other person, that's more than enough for me. i'm willing to stay and work for the betterment of my [b]country and countrymen, no matter which government is ruling it.[/b]
Sure, we can grumble about it, take the Red Pill, and read the many excellent articles on Singapore "not approved" by the PAP on the internet. But how many Singaporeans read those articles? Compare this to how many who insist on taking the Blue Pill (read: SPH newspapers) and living in the Ruling Party's manufactured world?
I love Singapore, and would like nothing more than to stay here the rest of my life. But not under this Ruling Party.
And don't anybody give me the crap about this being the government I voted for. I've never voted before in my life, despite being eligible the past 2 elections. -
Ged, in my university class in Melbourne were 6 Singaporeans:Of the 6, 4 have gotten PRs (3 are not coming back while one is here for a couple more years), 1 more is applying for one, and the last one we have lost contact with, but its unlikely he's staying.Originally posted by Gedanken:Nismos, this conversation isn't exactly new - at the end of 1994, there was a group of us having a very similar conversation to this. Things unfortunately haven't changed much in 9 years. Incidentally, of the six of us talking back in 1994, 1 is in Canada, 1 is in Geneva, 2 are in Australia and the remaining 2 are on their way to Oz. -
Singapore has become a place to work and not to live.
The pressure cooker education system is one of the minus point.
You can't get into the local university because your grade is not good enough. Woman cannot become a doctor as they get married.
High price for flats and car. The Singapore family is small, no need for big houses and kitchen as they eat out and don't cook. -
Originally posted by AzRaeL:Many animals do not breed in captivity.
Why do you think Singapore's birth rate is one of the lowest in the World?
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ok, that's sadOriginally posted by AzRaeL:When FTs are treated better than Citizens, it's a wake up call.
When foreigners throw breadrolls at our women, and the offenders are not ejected from the restaurant (like they would be in North America), perhaps it is time to leave.
When I am in Canada, I'm treated much better by the Canadian Government (though i am only a Canadian PR) than I am treated by Singapore, where i am a citizen.
you're talking like we cant vote him outOriginally posted by AzRaeL:5 years from now, the Dragon Prince will be in charge, the nation held in the grip of his talons.
Leave now while you can. -
With the current system political system, Ruling Party controlled media, and strict Party controls on information dissemination in place? Not impossible but extremely difficult.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:you're talking like we cant vote him out -
those who want to stay, you are welcome to stay.Originally posted by Gedanken:Ah, but Nismos, leaving doesn't solve anything for this society. It does, however, work out in favour of the individual who finds greener pastures.
those who want a better life, it's our choice to leave -
even Ethan Hunt would find it, well...Originally posted by Viper52:With the current system political system, Ruling Party controlled media, and strict Party controls on information dissemination in place? Not impossible but extremely difficult.
Impossible.
Only way to vote is to just leave.
Voting with my feet. -
Yeah, those numbers sound about right, Viper. The point here is that the bottom line of the whole "stayers and quitters" issue is that the government is asking us to do something that's pretty much along the lines of the old adage: "We are the unwilling, going into the unknown, to do the unnecessary for the ungrateful".Originally posted by Viper52:Ged, in my university class in Melbourne were 6 Singaporeans:Of the 6, 4 have gotten PRs (3 are not coming back while one is here for a couple more years), 1 more is applying for one, and the last one we have lost contact with, but its unlikely he's staying.
It's not so much even getting credit for what we do, but at least getting the benefits of the results that we produce. Let's face it - after acting as good private citizens and doing our part for the nation, are we going to get anything out of it if we're not part of the PAP machine? If there's one thing that this government has taught us, it's that you have to watch your own back. Some of us react by becoming kiasu, and others just decide that they've had enough of this abuse - life has to be better than this. -
Say Viper, you said that one of those who got PR is not returning to Oz for a few more years? If that's the case, he/she had better check the regulations. The way it's been explained to me, you need to be in Oz for 3 out of the next 5 years to maintain your status.
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to cut a long story short, I'm leaving.
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but what about those who can't leave?Originally posted by AzRaeL:even Ethan Hunt would find it, well...
Impossible.
Only way to vote is to just leave.
Voting with my feet. -
Gedanken, well said! It is increasingly becoming apparent to a lot of Singaporeans that the overpriced pigeon hole and expensive set of wheels do not make a happy life. For my case, I think its more of "We are the willing going into the unknown, so as to avoid doing the unnecessary for the ungrateful."Originally posted by Gedanken:Yeah, those numbers sound about right, Viper. The point here is that the bottom line of the whole "stayers and quitters" issue is that the government is asking us to do something that's pretty much along the lines of the old adage: "We are the unwilling, going into the unknown, to do the unnecessary for the ungrateful".
It's not so much even getting credit for what we do, but at least getting the benefits of the results that we produce. Let's face it - after acting as good private citizens and doing our part for the nation, are we going to get anything out of it if we're not part of the PAP machine? If there's one thing that this government has taught us, it's that you have to watch your own back. Some of us react by becoming kiasu, and others just decide that they've had enough of this abuse - life has to be better than this.
No matter how the spin doctors try to put the gloss over the "stayers and quitters" remarks, theres no doubt what the PM meant when he first made the speech.
My friend knows about the 2 out of 5 years rule (this has been reduced from 3) for the PR, but there are ways to get around that. He runs a business here with biz contacts in Aust, and the rules state that the residency requirements can be waived if he can prove that by being overseas, hes contributing/helping the Australian economy. The joys of a flexible bureaucracy without a one-track mind... -
Hope that you can vote with your ballot paper lor. And get a luxury not available to 65% of eligible Singaporeans in 2001.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:but what about those who can't leave? -
Thats the spirit Heng! Where are you planning to go?Originally posted by HENG@:to cut a long story short, I'm leaving.