Singaporean talents leaving to other countries
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goooooooosssss frabbbbbbaaaaaaOriginally posted by Gedanken:Hehe - it's usually said with a raised and clenched fist!
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Originally posted by Lingos:
BRAVO!!!
[b]Quitters leave Singapore??
All of us from Singapore have great great great grand parents, in my case, grandmother who migrated from the Indian continent, China, Europe and wherever else.
They left their home country to pursure better opportunities in Singapore. Are you calling your ancestors quitters? Isn't it the same argument? They gave up the 'hard life' in their home country to come to a place like Singapore and earn their keeps. A lot of them wanted to return to their home countries. Like the students in Asia, UK or States. But as time goes on, they decided that living in Singapore isn't that bad. Just like my counterparts over here. They settle down in their new country and have families.
So if you're calling us Quitters, you are yourself born from quitters consequently, we are all 'quitters' in Singapore.
Australians leave to migrate to UK, the Europeans migrate over here. I used to work with a French boss in the cafe. It is normal behaviour and one of those things that we just have to accept. [/b]
another well said piece.
we got a lot of ppl who will ace GP here. -
Yeah but the Lee family is bigger than the CountryOriginally posted by HENG@:not a lot do.
well said beary! -
wad to do.Originally posted by AzRaeL:Yeah but the Lee family is bigger than the Country
this sort of thing... for it to happen, the people had to allow it.
Anyone read Animal Farm b4?
find the scenario familar? -
I do agree with nismo in the sense, leaving solve any sg individual problems. One can also 'prophesise' the effects of singaporeans leaving en masse, such as talent drain, weakening economy, birth rate falling etc etc....so the effects of many people leaving will endanger singapore as a nation. As one would say, love the country but not the gahmen.Originally posted by Gedanken:You still don't get it, do you? You still don't see how for years, we've not only been saying there is a problem, but we've been pushing our solutions, and how for years Singaporeans have either denied the problem or have tried to hammer us back into place.
Suddenly, just like thirst is a delayed indicator of dehydration, they realise that there IS a problem, and then like spoilt brats try to DEMAND that we return to "do our duty". That's real rich. Tough titties, people - we tried, you said piss off, so we did. Don't go bitching and whining about it now.
And as for you, Nismos, coming about trumpeting that the "problem will not go away for the society" like you're the first person to discover it. Well, I've got a newsflash for you. The only thing you're showing is how wet behind the ears you are, that you don't even realise that some of us have not only asked that question, not only worked out our answers, but indeed have tested our solutions and found that they work. You're well behind the game here but you think you're ahead, and that's what makes you holier-than-thou.
However, I only totally agree with nismo if he said it 10 years ago. This idea of migrating to other countries was mooted many years ago, but the gahmenship at that time is relatively not absurd as now. It was a period of transition between LKY and GCT, economy was good, there doesnt seem to be stifling environment, people in the gahmen arent so 'I am good, follow me' kind of attitude. There is still ISD around, plus other clampdown on certain political arena like free speech, I must admit.
But it is getting worse now. People arent changing for the worse, its the leadership which I feel is getting weirder. How to blame on people in the first place? We have people like SIm Wong Hoo and the 1.99 shop owner (what her name again) who change sg from a old traditional biz style system to an idea driven entrepeneurial one. We have now many people with the tenacity to improve the economy and business arena in many sense, like freelancing, internet based business, Creative type of entrepeneurship which focus on skills, ingenuity and logical thinking, than a degree or diploma qualified management. We have people opening up the arts scene. Many of us here are displaying our talent in drama, literature, drawings, many others.We have so many arts theatres opening up, We have people who dare to go for their dreams - racing, bus arena (like those guys in the bus forums). We also have people (not only us or Chee Soon Juan) who are giving feedbacks to the gahmen on how to improve the society as whole...BUT?
Good news to hear a lot of Singaporeans (not most of them) are also trying improve individual pursuit, but also contributing to the society. But the main problem is what I usually style 'Mah Bow Tan' syndrome. Why isnt the leadership listening to the people? Why is it more stifling now, with increasingly so many layered policies dictating our fiscal policies (man, CPF already taken our hard earned money, my economic teacher can argue why CPF is more money draining than economy saving), disregards to feedbacks, 'scholarly' approach to solving problems, and many other points we had put out here on this forum.
It was absurd to hear 'bartop dancing ban lifted', 'debate over oral sex', these are clampdowns to the very individual level. Are these bans relevant to the society in the first place. Shouldnt the gahmen focus on economy and other macro policies, instead of what we individuals do? I personally dont see how bartop dancing can badly influence our youngs as compared to sticking chewing gums in MRT trains causing thousand of dollars to scrape off. Is the policies implemented before and now relevant and effective?
All in all, nismo is not wrong to say we should try to improve our society or getting to the crux of the problem, but with the present degenerating environment, how can one blame the so called 'quitters'?
PS: Why 'Mah Bow Tan' syndrome? Few years ago his son wanted to go polytechnic although he can go JC, Mah Bow Tan frowned on it, and it was all over New Paper. I was pissed off, and Mah attitude and thinkings resemble the gahmen's ones. -
Gendaken, aiya...dont be so harsh on him la...like I said, see you in 10 years. Not his fault that he is young and idealistic. We were once, remember? Back then, we got inspired by stories and tales about great people who made the world a better place, touched people's lives and aspired to be the same. THEN, reality starts to set in. But for the first few times, we didnt want to see it that way, we rationalized that we must have missed something and the put-downs were meant to be encouragement and not demeaning in anyway. Then time passes and we get the same treatment over and over again, we backtracked and thought hard. Nope, nothing was amissed in what I wanted to say or do. THEN, it strucked you. I gave Spore 15 yrs of my life. I cant afford to given another 15 yrs. But nis-man can. So, let him go and tackle it. He may get lucky. Who knows?Originally posted by Gedanken:You still don't get it, do you? You still don't see how for years, we've not only been saying there is a problem, but we've been pushing our solutions, and how for years Singaporeans have either denied the problem or have tried to hammer us back into place.
Suddenly, just like thirst is a delayed indicator of dehydration, they realise that there IS a problem, and then like spoilt brats try to DEMAND that we return to "do our duty". That's real rich. Tough titties, people - we tried, you said piss off, so we did. Don't go bitching and whining about it now.
And as for you, Nismos, coming about trumpeting that the "problem will not go away for the society" like you're the first person to discover it. Well, I've got a newsflash for you. The only thing you're showing is how wet behind the ears you are, that you don't even realise that some of us have not only asked that question, not only worked out our answers, but indeed have tested our solutions and found that they work. You're well behind the game here but you think you're ahead, and that's what makes you holier-than-thou. -
ok this is to nismo and laurence.
My passion is racing. cars. motorsports.
I intend to make it my passion.
singapore is very very unsupportive of motorsports.
so my question is: Do i HAVE to give up my passion and my dreams of getting a job which i am passionate about, just to stay here and be a "stayer"? Is that called loyalty?
Right now when i race, or when i talk with racers from other countries, I wear the singapore flag patch with pride. I tell them i am singaporean with pride. I do not deny i AM singaporean. but i am realistic enough to know that with the narrow minded bunch running the show as it is now, my passion would be forcefully fizzled out in singapore. is it fair to label me a quitter? wouldn't i be better serving my purpose gaining international exposure for singapore? to show that we can produce able people in the world of motorsports IN SPITE of the lack of any support? -
The first step for Sporeans is to believe that the Lee family is NOT superior to any one of us. Unless we take this first step to break the myth, we will always remain kbkb and do nothing people.Originally posted by HENG@:wad to do.
this sort of thing... for it to happen, the people had to allow it.
Anyone read Animal Farm b4?
find the scenario familar?
This made-belief kaotowism to the the labled elite of our nation has to stop. People stop dreaming, aspiring, experimenting with life if this goes on. -
Hmm?Originally posted by HENG@:ok this is to nismo and laurence.
My passion is racing. cars. motorsports.
I intend to make it my passion.
singapore is very very unsupportive of motorsports.
so my question is: Do i HAVE to give up my passion and my dreams of getting a job which i am passionate about, just to stay here and be a "stayer"? Is that called loyalty?
Right now when i race, or when i talk with racers from other countries, I wear the singapore flag patch with pride. I tell them i am singaporean with pride. I do not deny i AM singaporean. but i am realistic enough to know that with the narrow minded bunch running the show as it is now, my passion would be forcefully fizzled out in singapore. is it fair to label me a quitter? wouldn't i be better serving my purpose gaining international exposure for singapore? to show that we can produce able people in the world of motorsports IN SPITE of the lack of any support?
Like what I said, go and pursue your dreams. If sg cant support, there is nothing wrong in leaving sg to reach for your dreams. In any way, sg is damn stifling enough. -
elitism is a large part of singapore society. look at e way we rank our schs. even the way we rank our CCAs in sch. the whole... i took 4 As and 2 S papers thing. the way they choose our scholars, the kind of people our scholars mostly are.Originally posted by Xprobe:The first step for Sporeans is to believe that the Lee family is NOT superior to any one of us. Unless we take this first step to break the myth, we will always remain kbkb and do nothing people.
This made-belief kaotowism to the the labled elite of our nation has to stop. People stop dreaming, aspiring, experimenting with life if this goes on. -
thank you.Originally posted by laurence82:Hmm?
Like what I said, go and pursue your dreams. If sg cant support, there is nothing wrong in leaving sg to reach for your dreams. In any way, sg is damn stifling enough.
my reasons are more than justified. -
Xprobe, that's fine - whatever floats his boat.
This prat comes along and tries to push his thought as the Next Big Thing, but, as Shirley Bassey said, it's just a little bit of history repeating itself. But like I said, whatever toots his flute.
While my policy is live and let live, if some wet-behind-the-ears punk comes along and makes the judgements he has in his previous posts, I've got absolutely no compunction in returning fire, and there's plenty more where that came from. -
laurence82, that is exactly the problem I've seen for myself, I hear a lot of grumbling from these people, this no good, that no good, gahment sux blah blah blah. Yet when you tell them if they don't like it then leave, the excuses will start, no money (but got money to buy pigeon hole and COE), scared cannot adjust to life, racism (overblown), crime (as if Singapore has none), no friends (if thats the case VERY FEW will go overseas to study) etc etc.Originally posted by laurence82:Yes, people do condemn sg. gahmen. Urm for a start, I say the view are relative depending on your perspective, and even this perspective is relative too. Let assume all facts to be true, and people start to argue about the lousy environment here and how other countries are better, and many people join in the fracas. Whatever view people hold, I respect that decision. Its his perspective of that matter. He can choose to stay in sg and support the gahmen, I dont care. Let say its true sg gahmen is absurd in its thinking and actions, is he doing anything to prevent himself from the negative effects or reducing damages from the policies of the gahmen? Is he able to pursue his dreams here? If he says he gonna get a BMW by sticking to his job, which pays him $2000 per month, and harp on the quality of life in sg or COE is nothing to be worried about, can pay by installment etc etc, I probably will knock him on the head.
It shows this guy has not waken up to the reality of the society, not just sg society. On the other hand, if he says, the sg society and the gahmen suxx, is he gonna KBKB all day and not doing anything about it. Some genuinely do not have the capabilities to leave ,such as financial problems. Understandable. But many who KBKB chose to be ever-grumpy about it.
I've yet to say this to anyone, but one of these days I'll snap and tell them either to put up or shut up, i.e. don't complain if you do not have the balls to do anything about it. -
All said, I promised myself that I want to die with my eyes closed, whether I fail or succeed in life. I know for sure that staying in Spore, I will not be able to go at peace. There will definitely be regrets. I am happy and contented outside the system, although I am less comfortable and take bigger risks here, at least I am my own man.
Fug man, just let me do what I want to do la! (in the legal and good sense context). Why does the gahmen want to play a part in such a minor thing? Dont they have bigger and better things to take care of? -
hahaha... bang bang bang!!!Originally posted by Gedanken:Xprobe, that's fine - whatever floats his boat.
While my policy is live and let live, if some prat comes along and tries to push his thought as the Next Big Thing, then, as Shirley Bassey said, it's a little bit of history repeating itself.
If some wet-behind-the-ears punk comes along and makes the judgements he has in his previous posts, I've got absolutely no compunction in returning fire, and there's plenty more where that came from. -
True. Many of us have views that US is a haven for crime and immorality. My brother went there to study, and when he came back for holidays, I asked him whether there are shooting every now and then. He wasOriginally posted by Viper52:laurence82, that is exactly the problem I've seen for myself, I hear a lot of grumbling from these people, this no good, that no good, gahment sux blah blah blah. Yet when you tell them if they don't like it then leave, the excuses will start, no money (but got money to buy pigeon hole and COE), scared cannot adjust to life, racism (overblown), crime (as if Singapore has none), no friends (if thats the case VERY FEW will go overseas to study) etc etc.
I've yet to say this to anyone, but one of these days I'll snap and tell them either to put up or shut up, i.e. don't complain if you do not have the balls to do anything about it.
He said, people in US are actully more conservative than we thought. They are like us singaporeans, and they treasure peace and quiet. They are also concerned for their children whether they are mixing up with the wrong people. They may be more open to ideas, but doesnt mean they overdo it and become irrational. We are all human beanz after all.
In fact, I read somewhere before, Us crime rates pales in comparison with certain Middle Eastern and African countries. The statistics shown the Americans arent keeping up with the South Africans in killing people ,ie homicide.
Those paper reports are only focusing on the crimes. If someone keep reporting Singapore crime scenes, foreigners might also think Singapore is crime ridden.
As for friends,my brother is the quiet type. More than ever, the society open him up. He now attending ballroom dancing and attending people weddings.So i think the myths on horrors of living overseas is bulls. -
u are bean.Originally posted by laurence82:We are all human beanz after all.
i am being. -
The fact is, the major cities like LA, NY etc have a crime problem, but even that is restricted only to certain districts. My take on this is: of course there is crime overseas, but there are precautions one can take when it comes to such things. Its not like we don't take precautions against crime in Singapore. Do we go around HDB void decks staring long and hard at groups of Ah Bengs? Thats an instant ticket to being the victim of crime in Singapore. Similarly, there are places to avoid going to, and things we shouldn't do when overseas, to reduce the chances of being victims of crimes overseas.Originally posted by laurence82:True. Many of us have views that US is a haven for crime and immorality. My brother went there to study, and when he came back for holidays, I asked him whether there are shooting every now and then. He was
He said, people in US are actully more conservative than we thought. They are like us singaporeans, and they treasure peace and quiet. They are also concerned for their children whether they are mixing up with the wrong people. They may be more open to ideas, but doesnt mean they overdo it and become irrational. We are all human beanz after all.
In fact, I read somewhere before, Us crime rates pales in comparison with certain Middle Eastern and African countries. The statistics shown the Americans arent keeping up with the South Africans in killing people ,ie homicide. Those paper reports are only focusing on the crimes. If someone keep reporting Singapore crime scenes, foreigners might also think Singapore is crime ridden.
As for friends,my brother is the quiet type. More than ever, the society open him up. He now attending ballroom dancing and attending people weddings.So i think the myths on horrors of living overseas is bulls.
I've stayed 4 years overseas, and those 4 years have really changed my perspective of life and opened my eyes as to what sort of life I really want. -
in fact, talking about crime, we aren't exactly very crime free either here.
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The following article, which I read while overseas, was a significant factor in my reconsidering of my options of what I wanted out of life. It may sould like preaching to the converted by posting it here, but I think we should all read it, if we haven't already
PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS:
And his response to an article which appeared in the local propaganda broadsheet about the first article
THE CLASH: SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO? -
Not according to the governmentOriginally posted by HENG@:u are bean.
i am being. -
*singsong* thats what its all about~Originally posted by Viper52:The following article, which I read while overseas, was a significant factor in my reconsidering of my options of what I wanted out of life. It may sould like preaching to the converted by posting it here, but I think we should all read it, if we haven't already
PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS: -
Originally posted by HENG@:u are bean.
i am being. -
well, they don't OWN me. and they're gonna crumble. sooner or later.Originally posted by Viper52:Not according to the government -
About how, by staying here, are we following the Singapore Dream, or the Singapore Plan?Originally posted by HENG@:*singsong* thats what its all about~