Schools shaping elitist mindset
-
how can that be when kids spend more time in school then at home? from 7:30am to 1:30pm, lessons... on some days, 2pm to 5pm, remedial, CCA, etc..., on saturdays, more CCA...Originally posted by ShutterBug:How a person behaves, starts at home. And no school, can change that.
and bear in mind also that many kids are latch-key kids now... both parents work... they'll either be taken care of by indulgent grand-parents, or better still! child-care centres.
kids are barely shaped when they start primary school. the socialisation is also incomplete when they reach secondary school. but J.C.. ah... a time when teenagers are finding answers, to who they are, what life means, and if what they're doing makes any sense...
by instilling elitist nonsense into such impressionable minds, our society risks damaging them permanently. it gives them a skewed perspective of their worth and will lead to social stratification if we're not careful.
shall i ask a dangerous question and enquire about the % of minority races in the top J.C's? hypothetically, if the % is lower than that of their composition in this country, wouldn't elitism sink down to pure racism at some levels too?
e.g.
"i was from a top J.C... my J.C got very few malays... pple all say malays very lazy... that must be why they didn't make it in. oh well... that means we're better than them then."
what bullshit? but think about it... its not very far-fetched...
i don't think anyone intended it... but when u set one group apart, u also set them against the rest. -
I was from an elite school, however i don't ever feel any different from any other kid from neighbour schools, i mean so what if i am good at getting good results, there are other areas i am in no way can compare to students in neighbourhoods schools. And the funny thing in Singapore is that people associate good behaviour with good results, what has results have to do with good behaviours. Just like everytime anyone from elite school do something wrong, u can see the thing on front page of paper while for those in neighbouring school, unless it is very serious, u hardly ever see it.
I always be puzzled about this fact why people has high expectations of behaviour from those who know how to study, i can't ever understand this mentality.
Well there are always black sheeps. Therefore sweeping statements shouldn't be made. -
Originally posted by laurence82:Wah, if oldbreadstink see mee I better hide.
Well, I am not a true blue ACSians, but in a way what he says its true. The culture which stem from ACS makes people atc like that, and its because they got used to it, they cant help it.
Many a times I was peeved when my lectures were interrupted by guys giggiling away......
-
to be honest, being "elite" means having an ability to study well, with me bring one of the few exceptions. other than that, most of the elite schs have their "bad classes" as well, and things like theft, fights, molest cases(yes! molest!), vandalism, are all quite common.Originally posted by Ole:I was from an elite school, however i don't ever feel any different from any other kid from neighbour schools, i mean so what if i am good at getting good results, there are other areas i am in no way can compare to students in neighbourhoods schools. And the funny thing in Singapore is that people associate good behaviour with good results, what has results have to do with good behaviours. Just like everytime anyone from elite school do something wrong, u can see the thing on front page of paper while for those in neighbouring school, unless it is very serious, u hardly ever see it.
I always be puzzled about this fact why people has high expectations of behaviour from those who know how to study, i can't ever understand this mentality.
Well there are always black sheeps. Therefore sweeping statements shouldn't be made. -
gd to see that there is at least one thing we can agree on. n i hope im not not in ur books as an arrogant smob, becos im certainly not that!Originally posted by CX:a rather cute observation made by one of my drinking buddies when he went back for reservist recently...
all the orcifers who went to good schools and top j.c's were salaried men... and not all were equally successful. those who had million dollar paychecks obviously didn't get called back
most of the the ah bengs were "entrepreneurs"... again, not all were equally successful, but many were not making less money than the officers who got called back... again, those who were making a helluva lot didn't get called back...
some may argue that the two groups make money in different ways... white collar vs blue collar... mind work vs manual labour... here's another interesting point... SO? as long as its a line that rakes in the dough, does it matter???
one's secondary school, or even one's degree is a bad measure of that individual's worth...
at best, a good degree gives u a slight leg-up for the first 2-3 years... after that, if u don't perform, u stagnate all the same... individual mediocrity and higher education are not contradictory.
what's a degree from cornell anyway? all it proves is that u're probably good at studying.
ultimately, those young elitist punks need a reality check cos they obviously have an over-inflated opinion of their worth.
its hard to generalise on whether going to r.i will make one a ridiculously successful individuals, but all i can say to arrogant snobs is "GOOD LUCK!" may u not get too disappointed.
in fact, i agree with most of what you say. hehe, Im from RI myself. Streaming is the "macro" segregation; within RI there is a "micro-segregation" as well. One that is put abt by the school admin of course: the best-teacher-to-best-class syndrome and the grouping of teh so-called "elite" students in one class. And they stuff the class with all teh gd teachers. n of course, there is the normal label of "problem" class, undeniably since the "problem" class is poor in results. n then RI has this big fat ego-buster called CLE (Character and Leadership Education). i have no idea how they can promote CLE on one hand, which teache that a leader should be humble, and on the other hand, continue with such an elitist segregation system that fosters arrogance.
call me an idealist, but im definitely not idealistic abt our education system!
the pikamaster -
i thought u said the last time that u believed education to be the solution to all our society's problems?Originally posted by pikamaster:call me an idealist, but im definitely not idealistic abt our education system!
the pikamaster
u're exactly what i said u were... inconsistent, ignorant and irritating.
you prove the point the your esteemed institution educates narrow minded fools who think they know it all. -
Hmmm.. i went to a catholic all girls school for 10 years, i hated every single moment of my concious life.
I used to play truat at Secondary 2, with my bus stamp... i would take the bus to the airport instead of going to school. I also sneaked clothes to change so that i wasn't so obivously a sore thumb. Funny thing was, i never skipped school with someone. I used to look for a girl who was in another school and she wasn't in all morning sessions in Secondary school. Now that i look back, i wonder how i ever managed to succeed passing getting passed Sec 2 without being held back.
Anyway before i digress.... in JC i went to a neighbourhood school.. man did i stick up like a sore thumb again and didn't fit in. I was hounded by lecturers.. had hokkien lessons with my classmates. Looking back i'd probably never send my kids (if i do have any at this point i'd say no, and if i were to return to Sg) to a neighbourhood school. I apologise to all who originated from a neighbourhood school and want to thump me. But i dont want my kids sprouting Chinese, Canto and Hokkien vulgarities. But at the same time if i put them in a Catholic school again, will they rebel like there's no tomorrow?
Anyway to each his own, i think it is hard to tell what a person will be like in 20 years. Like myself, who would guess at the age of 16 that i'd leave home in 4 years time and become something like what i am today? I think it is learning through our life process and taking all opportunities that would come our way to improve ourselves. It is ultimately the family that has more influence in what we will become than the school. -
Well said...Perhaps when one gets along in life and especially if you go overseas..this niggling addiction to brand names of schools would end, and perhaps relegated to a minor talking point and that too is only applicabel to those who have a strong old-boy network.But it will definitely not become a childish flame war where the brand name counts as much as your future.
-
My 1 cent view........Originally posted by Lingos:Hmmm.. i went to a catholic all girls school for 10 years, i hated every single moment of my concious life.
I used to play truat at Secondary 2, with my bus stamp... i would take the bus to the airport instead of going to school. I also sneaked clothes to change so that i wasn't so obivously a sore thumb. Funny thing was, i never skipped school with someone. I used to look for a girl who was in another school and she wasn't in all morning sessions in Secondary school. Now that i look back, i wonder how i ever managed to succeed passing getting passed Sec 2 without being held back.
Anyway before i digress.... in JC i went to a neighbourhood school.. man did i stick up like a sore thumb again and didn't fit in. I was hounded by lecturers.. had hokkien lessons with my classmates. Looking back i'd probably never send my kids (if i do have any at this point i'd say no, and if i were to return to Sg) to a neighbourhood school. I apologise to all who originated from a neighbourhood school and want to thump me. But i dont want my kids sprouting Chinese, Canto and Hokkien vulgarities. But at the same time if i put them in a Catholic school again, will they rebel like there's no tomorrow?
Anyway to each his own, i think it is hard to tell what a person will be like in 20 years. Like myself, who would guess at the age of 16 that i'd leave home in 4 years time and become something like what i am today? I think it is learning through our life process and taking all opportunities that would come our way to improve ourselves. It is ultimately the family that has more influence in what we will become than the school.
At least they know it when some other people used it and not be mistaken it for some kind of nice greetings like hello and goodbye
My friends use to tell me that the first thing to do when u are in a unknown country is to know their foul language first..........why
the reason above -
Originally posted by Lingos:
well... thats an experience i can relate to as well, having studied in both mission school and neighbourhood school before...
.... Anyway to each his own, i think it is hard to tell what a person will be like in 20 years. Like myself, who would guess at the age of 16 that i'd leave home in 4 years time and become something like what i am today? I think it is learning through our life process and taking all opportunities that would come our way to improve ourselves. It is ultimately the family that has more influence in what we will become than the school.
the pple i got to know in the neighbourhood school were actually ok... i have ah beng friends and though u can't engage them in an intellectual conversation, why would u want to? that's not what they're good at...
they're survivors... they don't have a top-notch education, but they know where to find the best lobangs and if u ever need a mindless part time job during the hols, or if u need lobang for something, they're the best pple to look for...
crap all u want about them being bums and losers and them not behaving properly, but think again... many non ah-bengs are like that too... and isn't it weird that bad behavior isn't restricted to those who are supposedly unschooled and uncouth? -
u know i skipped sch the wholeof my JC and boy... do i wonder how i ever passed my promos and my As too... sometimes... luck plays a part.Originally posted by Lingos:Hmmm.. i went to a catholic all girls school for 10 years, i hated every single moment of my concious life.
I used to play truat at Secondary 2, with my bus stamp... i would take the bus to the airport instead of going to school. I also sneaked clothes to change so that i wasn't so obivously a sore thumb. Funny thing was, i never skipped school with someone. I used to look for a girl who was in another school and she wasn't in all morning sessions in Secondary school. Now that i look back, i wonder how i ever managed to succeed passing getting passed Sec 2 without being held back. -
No body with some sense expects anybody who can study well to be any less human then those who lacks that ability.Originally posted by Ole:I was from an elite school, however i don't ever feel any different from any other kid from neighbour schools, i mean so what if i am good at getting good results, there are other areas i am in no way can compare to students in neighbourhoods schools. And the funny thing in Singapore is that people associate good behaviour with good results, what has results have to do with good behaviours. Just like everytime anyone from elite school do something wrong, u can see the thing on front page of paper while for those in neighbouring school, unless it is very serious, u hardly ever see it.
I always be puzzled about this fact why people has high expectations of behaviour from those who know how to study, i can't ever understand this mentality.
Well there are always black sheeps. Therefore sweeping statements shouldn't be made.
The problem starts when those who can study well start thinking that they are in any way having superior worth as individuals when in reality they are every bit as conniving, arrogrant and discusting as those they look down on. And worse, their inabilty to be grounded in reality and live in their own protected, bubble world where they are the true dehumanized cogs in the machine, it can be argued that they are actually a pitiable, and paethetic bunch, when compared to a person with no papers, but is human and dedicated to exploring his own potential and individuality rather then allowed himself to be defined by papers and MENSA. If you need a numerical number to prove your worth, you are well and truly paethetic indeed, more akin to a car or computer with flashy specs then an actual human individual.
These people apparently think that they are in MORE EQUAL to others.
If they subscribe to such fiction, do not be surprised if people would like to expose grim realities to them, that they are a sorry sight indeed. -
lets not continue that hereOriginally posted by CX:i thought u said the last time that u believed education to be the solution to all our society's problems?
u're exactly what i said u were... inconsistent, ignorant and irritating.
you prove the point the your esteemed institution educates narrow minded fools who think they know it all.
-
I know this reply is a little late... but I'm gonna put this in anyways.
I'm from one of the "elite" schools, (*cough ACS) and I'm one of those people who do not do fare better in exams as compared to students from neighbourhood schools but fare worse than them.
Well, I can say that in my four years in my secondary school, I had taken on that (what the guys here call) arrogant and snobbish attitude when it came to neighborhood school students. It was only when I was in sec3 that I realised my folly and started to hate my secondary school. When my classmates/schoolmates saw me going out with my neighborhood school friends, they would tend to sneer at me when I got back to school on the following day and some of my more extreme classmates would call me "stupid by association".
There are times when I can respect some of my neighborhood school friends when I found out that one of them had no formal tutoring of any sort for A Maths and got A1 for his prelims while I had been failing my A Math tests like mad for two years and barely scraped past with a B4 (inclusive of mad moderation).
It all boils down to the individual. Every person is born with a brain, but it depends on the person on how he/she wants to use it. Being in an "elite" school does not mean that you're clever, smart or anything, because I've known of many people who got into ACS or MGS with whopping PSLE scores of 220-230 because of their sports achievements or whatever useless talents they have. Although I never got into ACS through the "back door", I had definitely wasted my time in that school and I will constantly remind my child in the future to respect all men or else someone in his/her life will come to smack him/her in the face soon enough be it physical or in other ways.
So please, don't tar and feather all of us just because of the actions of the majority of the "elitist" students because there are still some students who can think for themselves and will not always follow the elitist culture of our fellow students. Heck... I was an outcast in my school and was constantly ridiculed.
P.S. For the people who criticise us for having a "fake accent", please don't blame us as it certainly cannot be helped; because it IS a part of the school culture that none of us can avoid. -
heh. a fellow lousy student from an elite schol speaks up. nice to know im not e only lousy student from an elite school out there.Originally posted by NEWater:I know this reply is a little late... but I'm gonna put this in anyways.
I'm from one of the "elite" schools, (*cough ACS) and I'm one of those people who do not do fare better in exams as compared to students from neighbourhood schools but fare worse than them.
Well, I can say that in my four years in my secondary school, I had taken on that (what the guys here call) arrogant and snobbish attitude when it came to neighborhood school students. It was only when I was in sec3 that I realised my folly and started to hate my secondary school. When my classmates/schoolmates saw me going out with my neighborhood school friends, they would tend to sneer at me when I got back to school on the following day and some of my more extreme classmates would call me "stupid by association".
There are times when I can respect some of my neighborhood school friends when I found out that one of them had no formal tutoring of any sort for A Maths and got A1 for his prelims while I had been failing my A Math tests like mad for two years and barely scraped past with a B4 (inclusive of mad moderation).
It all boils down to the individual. Every person is born with a brain, but it depends on the person on how he/she wants to use it. Being in an "elite" school does not mean that you're clever, smart or anything, because I've known of many people who got into ACS or MGS with whopping PSLE scores of 220-230 because of their sports achievements or whatever useless talents they have. Although I never got into ACS through the "back door", I had definitely wasted my time in that school and I will constantly remind my child in the future to respect all men or else someone in his/her life will come to smack him/her in the face soon enough be it physical or in other ways.
So please, don't tar and feather all of us just because of the actions of the majority of the "elitist" students because there are still some students who can think for themselves and will not always follow the elitist culture of our fellow students. Heck... I was an outcast in my school and was constantly ridiculed.
P.S. For the people who criticise us for having a "fake accent", please don't blame us as it certainly cannot be helped; because it IS a part of the school culture that none of us can avoid. -
Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:lets not continue that here yes... that was a little out of line... and out of point. paiseh...
-
I am a elite student from lousy school.....even missing almost half a year school for my 'N' levels.....sail thro my 'O' levels....date & counting thro my poly.....yes I study for my poly exam the morning before exam.....Originally posted by HENG@:heh. a fellow lousy student from an elite schol speaks up. nice to know im not e only lousy student from an elite school out there.
BTW...I know someone who is fm ITE now boss of top list co in spore. -
good for u.Originally posted by euphratis:I am a elite student from lousy school.....even missing almost half a year school for my 'N' levels.....sail thro my 'O' levels....date & counting thro my poly.....yes I study for my poly exam the morning before exam..... -
Ryan, of course they will know every swear word. I am queen of vulgarities. Everyone at work freaks out when I swear cos they think i'm really innocent and goody two shoes. But to have every sentence end with a CB is a rather overkill.Originally posted by ryangian:My 1 cent view........
At least they know it when some other people used it and not be mistaken it for some kind of nice greetings like hello and goodbye
My friends use to tell me that the first thing to do when u are in a unknown country is to know their foul language first..........why the reason above -
Wah you skipped JC? Wow.. i think if i had skipped JC i would have like been stuck there still trying to get 4 As. heheh.Originally posted by HENG@:u know i skipped sch the wholeof my JC and boy... do i wonder how i ever passed my promos and my As too... sometimes... luck plays a part. -
i knew this girl frm the net then she got into acjc then i was talking to her once when my sis came into my room and when she say my friend annoucing thru her msn nick that she is going to acjc. my sis exclaimed " you are flirting with a ACJC girl !!!. oh my god !"
wow....acjc are angels/gods wor....
my sis is frm acjc. -
eh? luck... milady, its luck. my name is heng leh.Originally posted by Lingos:Wah you skipped JC? Wow.. i think if i had skipped JC i would have like been stuck there still trying to get 4 As. heheh. -
once again, u misunderstand me.Originally posted by CX:i thought u said the last time that u believed education to be the solution to all our society's problems?
u're exactly what i said u were... inconsistent, ignorant and irritating.
you prove the point the your esteemed institution educates narrow minded fools who think they know it all.
yep, i bleieve that education is the solution to social problems. BUT did u also happen to notice in the other thread that i also mentioned how screwed up our education system is? Of Course education is the solution to social ills, but it must be the RIGHT kind of education. Got me now?
n no, i did not get my thoughts frm what RI teaches. These are my personal feelings and what i've obtained from reading up on my own.
the dissappointed pikamaster
P.S.: btw, i got my friend to look through the posts. like you, he is a senior member too. And he said that my posts are sensible, although he doesn't agree with my stance on the issue. -
Originally posted by CX: yes... that was a little out of line... and out of point. paiseh... *sigh*
-
bah... its tedious to keep talking about the same few points. in case u haven't noticed, i already retracted that earlier statement when oldbreadstinks found it objectionable.Originally posted by pikamaster:once again, u misunderstand me.
yep, i bleieve that education is the solution to social problems. BUT did u also happen to notice in the other thread that i also mentioned how screwed up our education system is? Of Course education is the solution to social ills, but it must be the RIGHT kind of education. Got me now?
n no, i did not get my thoughts frm what RI teaches. These are my personal feelings and what i've obtained from reading up on my own.
the dissappointed pikamaster
P.S.: btw, i got my friend to look through the posts. like you, he is a senior member too. And he said that my posts are sensible, although he doesn't agree with my stance on the issue.
i don't care to comment on the "validity" of your points... if ur friend say they make sense then good for u loh... they certainly don't seem gounded in reality to me. and that's essentially why i find them 'duh'... am too much of a realist.
anyway, this thread isn't about the other thing we were talking about. its much closer and many young pple can relate to it... so... what does wearing that white uniform mean to u?
me? i'm totally sworn of snobbish idiots like that... they talk loud, but they don't seem to have much between their ears. so their claim to elitism is to me, tantamount to building castles in the air.