Singapore as first world-Lee's personal dream?
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we do what we can.. but wthen, the goalposts are suddenly moved...
look at that happened to the pilot union..Originally posted by sunny6110:Only the POOR and the JOBLESS would complain about the government... well, this is the sad fact abt mankind is that survival of the fittest - if u are not capable to earn the 1st world pay and all u did is to complain instead of working on how to improve your current situation, then u deserve to starve~!! where in the world that u can find a perfect place to stay?? by all means u can "pursue" ur 1st world standard of living there .... thou me agree that no complain no improvement... hee hee... -
haha.... speaking about SIA..... I was wondering about where are all the complaints when SIA was giving out 6 months bonus when times are gd?? see how ungrateful pple are?
ouch~!! it hurts so much to rear a cute puppy when u get bitten by it when it turned into a huge, strong dog... -
so, you enjoy being financially, mentally, spiritually and politically sodomised?Originally posted by sunny6110:haha.... speaking about SIA..... I was wondering about where are all the complaints when SIA was giving out 6 months bonus when times are gd?? see how ungrateful pple are?
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buay hyao la... simi si sodomised?Originally posted by the Bear:so, you enjoy being financially, mentally, spiritually and politically sodomised? -
means buggered up the ass... which is what the gabrament is doing to us every which why except physically.. coz it's against the law..Originally posted by sunny6110:buay hyao la... simi si sodomised?
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U think so? so wat can u do more abt it instead of complaining here? effective? government oso run by a group of pple wat...
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look at what every credible opposition member has done?
one has a disintegrating constituency... the other's? who knows what will become?
remember Anson? most don't.. JBJ (okay, i don't like him at all) took it. guess what happened when it was retaken? IT DISAPPEARED!!
gerrymandering at its best!
now, try to stand up against that juggernaut...
i'm not just complaining.. i'm making plans... to go somewhere else where i can have a family and a family with a life! where people are not prepped for a rat-race from cradle to grave...
i love my country... but when the country's lea-duhs care more for themselves and their own vested interests at the cost of the people, to squeeze their people dry, the very people they swore to look after, and invent laws in order to keep their power, then, something has to give...
and it sure as hell isn't going to be the lea-duhs in their ivory towers.. coz they've spelt it out.. to hell with everything and everyone.. so long as they're in power..
if that's not political, social, mental and financial sodomy, what the heck is?Originally posted by sunny6110:U think so? so wat can u do more abt it instead of complaining here? effective? government oso run by a group of pple wat... -
I m not saying it is or it is not... u can claim so if u wish... LKY oso complain... I heard his complaints everytime he appear on tv... wat makes him different? He is a man who dare to dream, dare to speak, capable. He complained, proposed a solution and most imptly he implemented it... of coz... he can't be right all the time... nobody can be right all the time... Do u have a gf? how old are u? can't get a wife and settle down in singapore? well... maybe water in foreign countries would taste better...
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he dared to dream.. yes...
his dream became a nightmare for the people.. the people who know what it is to be free..
i am free.. i dare to dream.. to dream and to put into plans my move away from singapore.. where i was born.. where i would have liked to live...
but cannot...
would you put your children through the same rat-race? the grinder? the pressure cooker? the same intense boiler that you see around you?
if you would, then i salute you.. do you really care for your own family?
or were they worth 40 pieces of silver? -
If my children fails to keep up to the challenges, they deserved to starve~! I dunno whether me seen other kind of pple... but me sure see lots of heros in sgforums... use mouth only... so sad to see heros without fighting spirits neh...
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Look mate, we all know how great LKY was in the past, i admire him myself for doing that. However, we must realise times have changed, if your puppy dog was very good towards you in its early years, but then as a dog if bites you day and night... your not going to cling onto the dog because it was good when it was a puppy now would you? Yes people can't be right all the time, do you want such people in government? Or in your company? No... you don't, this world is a dog eat dog world, if that applies to us, why shouldn't it apply to people like LKY?Originally posted by sunny6110:I m not saying it is or it is not... u can claim so if u wish... LKY oso complain... I heard his complaints everytime he appear on tv... wat makes him different? He is a man who dare to dream, dare to speak, capable. He complained, proposed a solution and most imptly he implemented it... of coz... he can't be right all the time... nobody can be right all the time... Do u have a gf? how old are u? can't get a wife and settle down in singapore? well... maybe water in foreign countries would taste better... -
Well, how are we to know if anybody else can implement their ideas if they're now allowed to? An opposition member wins a seat in parliament, and suddenly there are difficulties in the construction of an MRT station in that area. Another constituency votes an opposition menber in, and by the next election it ceases to exist as a voting constituency.Originally posted by sunny6110:He is a man who dare to dream, dare to speak, capable. He complained, proposed a solution and most imptly he implemented it...
Sunny, how can any oppostion members demonstrate their abilities when the big boys use their power to shut them down? Certainly LKY has delivered the goods in the past, but how can we tell how good he really is if it's a one-man competition? -
that is wat happens when u study too much... Do u really need to be a member of opposition party if u wanna change policy or demostrate ur ability?? hee hee... wat me see here is political stability.... dun wish to see any strong political force here... same... dun wish to see unions taking part in company policy making... think abt it... this would destroy Singapore if serious u know... a matter of life and death ... if SIA dun do well, dun think singapore will even survive... see whether u care to complain whose policy works better at that time...
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sunny, so, if your children are dying, you'd not help?
sheesh..
nevermind.. wow..
look out for No.1, damn the rest huh?
oh well.. better you than me.. -
Bear ... u got gf now anot? talking abt settling down...
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So what you are saying is that we chuch our brains at the door, and willingly take any insult they dish out on us lying down? Allowing them to loot us as a fee for political stability?Originally posted by sunny6110:that is wat happens when u study too much... Do u really need to be a member of opposition party if u wanna change policy or demostrate ur ability?? hee hee... wat me see here is political stability....
Please wake up and stop believing in the virtual world that without the ruling party, there will be no Singapore today.
Maybe you are so badly deluded, or detached from the masses, or have no aspirations whatsoever as a human individual or are just blinded with apaty.dun wish to see any strong political force here... same... dun wish to see unions taking part in company policy making... think abt it...
So we should just willingly hand our bodies over to be used as human batteries? Oh wait, we are doing that already. Maybe you would like to feel the sting of being exploited as well or are you spouting such nonsense from your ivory towers. Go talk to the Singaporeans shortchanged by the system and ask them if it has worked for them.this would destroy Singapore if serious u know... a matter of life and death ... if SIA dun do well, dun think singapore will even survive... see whether u care to complain whose policy works better at that time...
Is SIA's woes the fault of its pilots? Hardly, it was the well-thought out planning and complatency of the top brass in that company that caused the trouble. And who feels the burn? The workers who have been doing nothing wrong and doing their duty to the very end, only to be shortchanged in cold blood.
So your idea of tradining in political stability for logic would mean keeping these jokers to carry on making these mistakes so that the common would suffer.
Please, has it come to your mind that Singapore could be run far better?
It's time to wake up and leave the Matrix dude. -
sunny, if you were at the bottom of a ditch, that's a stable position, so what's your point about political stability?
Also, could you please make up your mind? Is education important, or is it a hazard?
And what's your obsession with Bear having a girlfriend? Are you propositioning him? -
jus as me expected... will receive lots of comments de... hahaha... dun expect u to agree wif me lo... and u dun expect me to go along wif u lo... diff pple diff thinking... enuff said... me end here.... bo eng la... use the time go think how to earn $$ better...
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Please lah...if you're so sure you're right...then why no balls to stand behind them and put them up for scrutiny? Or are you secretly scared you might be proved wrong and forced to leave your confort zone of "stability"?Originally posted by sunny6110:jus as me expected... will receive lots of comments de... hahaha... dun expect u to agree wif me lo... and u dun expect me to go along wif u lo... diff pple diff thinking... enuff said... me end here.... bo eng la... use the time go think how to earn $$ better... -
Singapore has some of the highest standards of living in the world. And this can in great part be attributed to a good, strong and stable government and a hardworking population. I am not a big fan of the government, but I believe that LKY's guidance and his legacy has been more beneficial than detrimental.
It is very easy to blame something or someone for your woes. It is more difficult to be able to pick yourself up and to turn a bad situation around. Granted, circumstances may not be favourable due to flaws in the system. But at the end of the day, there is little choice in the matter. Because in the case of Singapore, political liberalisation will not come as quickly as some would like. Poverty and disparities in income will always exist. These are problems that cannot be solved, but only reduced. Thus, either be content with your lot or try to change your lot in life.
If you want to compare Singapore to other countries, and for those who have been lucky enough to travel around alot, you will realise that Singaporeans are a very lucky lot. We are an affluent nation, have a top-rate educational system and a safe nation that is good for investment. Of course the government can do alot more, but utopia is only a concept, and perfection inattainable. -
And one has to admit, if this is a "Lee empire" or "Lee family business", then its a very successful business.
Except of course alot of the workers are unhappy and want more then the lao ban is willing to give.
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cookiecutter, theres no doubt that Singapore under the PAP has been extremely successful, and the PAP and its policies would be able to claim a lot credit for that. However the world has moved on since then, we have moved on. The old formula of attracting MNCs here because we can produce what they want to produce at the lowest price with the highest level of stability are over. We are being beaten at that game from countries all over Asia.
The reasons for this are many, not least because of PAP interference that has seen costs here shoot up a lot higher than IMO they should be, making Singapore and Singaporeans uncompetitive. Getting us to accept less pay, while expecting us to pay more and more, will not work and will fly in their faces, sooner or later. Anyone who believes that Singaporean workers cost more than American or Australian ones should be shot. And I don't want to say what I think of the so-and-so who said that to us in the first place.
What Singapore needs now are terms oft-repeated, but never enacted with any conviction, by those in power.
You're right when you say Utopia is unattainable. I fully agree. But Singapore can be better, a lot better for all Singaporeans, as opposed to being Utopia for a select few that is whats going on now. Unfortunately, the select few refuse to make changes that will make Singapore better as a place to live in. Small wonder that those who can, are leaving or plan to. While a lot more who can't, hanker to. -
Sorry, Viper, we're covering a lot of the same ground here, but it's essential to my point!
It's true, cookiecutter, that under LKY's leadership, Singapore has experienced a rate of development that is pretty amazing. This economy has grown like it's on steroids. However, like in the case of steroids, one needs to be aware of the side-effects. Are they going to result in malformations of the organs that will eventually kill or cripple the user?
I believe that since perhaps the early 1980's, these side effects have been steadily becoming more visible. Success in the manufacturing game is influenced by your ability to produce the same goods at a much lower price. However, with the rising costs of living and value of the Singaporean dollar, how long could we have kept the price low? Sooner or later the game would have had to change to suit the circumstances.
Right now, as a First World country by economic standards, Singapore would probably best be served by market creation, rather than by fighting for market share (which really depends on your ability to deliver better value per dollar than other countries). A good example of market creation is Creative TechnologyÂ’s introduction of the Sound Blaster, but nobody seems to have been able to follow suit.
Creative’s director, Sim Wong Hoo, lists “being creative” as one of his hobbies. Unfortunately, as the government itself has acknowledged through things like its entrepreneurship drives, Singaporeans are not being creative enough. For the first 25 years or so of independence, Singapore’s success was built upon the ability of the people to shut up, follow orders and in so doing get the overall effort to progress as rapidly as possible. That ability has not been replaced by the required creativity, and has become an unwelcome side effect of those economic steroids - we have not adapted to the new game as dictated by the change in the country’s circumstances.
Indeed, as has been expressed in many of the threads related to “quitters”, in the “shut up and follow orders” environment, independent thinkers were, and still are, seen as loose cannons on deck and made pariahs. Now that these people are being driven off, Singapore’s capacity to play the new game is being diminished.
In essence, with its latest moves of telling people not to be fussy about the work they take up, and trying to get them to perform the same work with wage cuts, the government is trying to flog the dead horse that is the old game. The situation is exacerbated by slaves of the system like sunny, who tell non-supporters of the old game “maybe water in foreign countries would taste better...”, thereby further encouraging the brain drain.
The bottom line is that the foresight employed by the government in the early part of SingaporeÂ’s independence is not being employed now, and for that, I propose that dissatisfaction with the government is justified. -
u know...
b4 Saddam was ousted... Iraq was in a way very orderly... no looting and everyone followed the rules...
LKY Pte Ltd runs the show overly strong handedly... rule by fear. -
Originally posted by Gedanken:I can't remember which BBC show LKY was interviewed on years ago, and the interviewer asked him, "Did you ever anticipate Singapore being such a success when you first started out as Prime Minister?". LKY's response was something like, "All I wanted to do was make a comfortable life for myself and my family - it's not my fault that the rest of the country came along". I think that says it all, and he's even put it out into the open.
maybe it ain't his intention, but that just turned out to be 1 of the few instances that i'm inclined to believe our beloved CEO. S'pore's being a 1st world country is only consistent with his said agenda anyway.