PILOT : Capt Goh PR status revoked
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What do you think. "Someone" trying to make a scapegoat out of him? Trying to sent a strong signal to not only PRs but also Sporean too? That if you are messing around with fire? Why must they stage the talk?
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Guess it not the way to treat one like that, we're lacking of freedom in selecting what the best for our's right. He fighting for his team of pilots. But only going against SIA, yet the Gov came into the matter.Now the team have to verus the Gov and the management of SIA. Wish I've the money to leave this country.
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dunno... when i read this, the image of staged shots of Saddam holding crying babies in a crowd of people surrounded by men with machineguns came into mind...Originally posted by euphratis:What do you think. "Someone" trying to make a scapegoat out of him? Trying to sent a strong signal to not only PRs but also Sporean too? That if you are messing around with fire? Why must they stage the talk?
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This shows, just how OPAQUE things generally are here, and also, if you get too smart or capable, your days will likely be numbered.
Besides, wasn't it Foreign Talents they wanted?
Whatever, the case, this doesn't come as a surprise to me - actually been waiting for just such a thing to happen.
Predictable as rain. -
Apparently one of the things that can be covered but have decided instead to blow it big. -
Politics. It kills more people than you can imagine.
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think its not just a matter of whether he is smart or capable.. since he is already in the process of uprooting his family to be setteld in Australia, it does cast a rather dubious light on his motives for leading the union into this argument.Originally posted by ShutterBug:This shows, just how OPAQUE things generally are here, and also, if you get too smart or capable, your days will likely be numbered.
Besides, wasn't it Foreign Talents they wanted?
Whatever, the case, this doesn't come as a surprise to me - actually been waiting for just such a thing to happen.
Predictable as rain. -
sadly, people abuse the Singapore Permanent Residency status...
simply because the blasted powers who live in ivory towers make is so damned easy to get...
they use that PR status as a stepping stone to elsewhere.. because, face it.. who wants their family to face the pressure-cooker that is Singapore when there are better places elsewhere?
and i know what i'm talking about here...
anyway, for this pilot, i'd wonder... the pilots were getting shafted by their own union then... as for this guy, he was doing something for himself, and the rest of the pilots... residency aside...
i also wonder if he'd still be hired by SIA if he was an Australian PR instead? can't see any problems in that at all right?
dubious or not, i'd say our gabrament lost the most credibility in this whole fiasco..Originally posted by KittynMeow:think its not just a matter of whether he is smart or capable.. since he is already in the process of uprooting his family to be setteld in Australia, it does cast a rather dubious light on his motives for leading the union into this argument. -
nothing new fm gahmen... i would be surprised if nothing happen to him...Originally posted by euphratis:What do you think. "Someone" trying to make a scapegoat out of him? Trying to sent a strong signal to not only PRs but also Sporean too? That if you are messing around with fire? Why must they stage the talk?
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I think he's just being made a bogeyman out of. Who in his right mind would want to stir up trouble in which the gar'men would get noticed for some shallow, vaguely defined reason which is the latest piece of "truth" they want us to swallow.
In Singapore, as long as you are against the system, you are deemed to be a threat to the majority by The Party, irregardless of your true intentions. -
From what i've been following, it seems that the powers that be rely heavily on what our senile minister says. It's sad also that the govt has decided to strip him of his residence status in what is likely to be deemed the ultimate hang-dry.
Perhaps the govt would like to back up their actions by publishing exactly how Cpt Goh was 'fingered' as an instigator and a troublemaker?
I think the general public would like to know. -
nothing new what... now u all know why we only dare to kpkb here and not on street having riot right?? haha...
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Going against SIA is like going against the government.
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Look like the Modulus Operandi action from LKY... Wonder when will he realise that such action will cause the citizens to hate the government more rather than being intimidated by it...
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The govt just want to control all spore citizens and make us obey all aspect of their policies like robot. This will not work in the coming future as more sporean are educated and seeking to have a say in the governing of spore! They will not be easily pushed around.LKY ways of governing and ideas shall be abandoned. It was LKY who started interfering in the Pilot and SIA saga,his argument for his action is unconvincing. His ways of governing spore is only suitable in the 70s to early 90s.The pool of talented sporean will not submit and buy his idea so easily. The SIA incident is just a begining of more of clashes with the govt. Spore will not progress healthly if with govt continue to control us!
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2 side of the coin...
he is a bad sheep..cannot believe that he start a petition but omit himself from the list, profited from the sale of his house in TP, shifted whole family to AUS except his daugther who is profiting fm our education system....for these I do not pity becos he is abusing his PR status...I think the reason he is still in SG becos of his job. Nothing else. If he is really so serious he would have taken up citizenship so easily availble to him. So why was he still a borderliner?
but I am not in favour of Gahmen when they interfere with SIA with union & issist that they follow suit N3UC style. I never consider N3UC to be a union at all.
The strong signal also meant that Gahmen never in favour of any union group's existance. -
yea...agree with u..he is obviously the bad sheep...wonder y others think he is not?Originally posted by euphratis:2 side of the coin...
he is a bad sheep..cannot believe that he start a petition but omit himself from the list, profited from the sale of his house in TP, shifted whole family to AUS except his daugther who is profiting fm our education system....for these I do not pity becos he is abusing his PR status...I think the reason he is still in SG becos of his job. Nothing else. If he is really so serious he would have taken up citizenship so easily availble to him. So why was he still a borderliner?
but I am not in favour of Gahmen when they interfere with SIA with union & issist that they follow suit N3UC style. I never consider N3UC to be a union at all.
The strong signal also meant that Gahmen never in favour of any union group's existance. -
Reading from a file, Mr Lee pulled out the following facts about Captain Goh.
A Malaysian with permanent residence status here, he had accepted Australian PR in 2002, moved his wife and children to Perth, shipped his car and sold his flat.
You told someone from IE Singapore that the grass had stopped growing in Singapore, did you not, he asked.
He turned to one of the pilots and asked if he knew the Malaysian had bought a house in Australia and had this option to bail out.
No, the person answered.
'No?' repeated Mr Lee.
'That's deception, isn't it?' he asked Capt Goh.
The pilot in the hot seat tried to defend himself but it was too late. The line in the sand between him and the Singaporeans had been drawn for him.
'My daughter is still in school here,' he tried saying, adding this showed he still had roots in Singapore.
But wasn't that because she did not like school in Australia and came back, Mr Lee shot back calmly.
Silence.
The castigation, no doubt a tactic of divide-and-rule, also established a more significant point: It is not up to PRs or other foreigners to get into union matters and play around with decisions that affect the rest of Singaporeans.
[color=#444444]Capt Goh had tried to undermine the interests of SIA and Singapore, he said. 'If Singapore goes down, you go down,' he told the Singaporeans across the table. 'He doesn't go down.'[/color] -
Just a question, did he draft out the petition entirely of his own, or were there other pilots involved but was Ryan Goh singled out by the SM to prove his point?Originally posted by euphratis:2 side of the coin...
he is a bad sheep..cannot believe that he start a petition but omit himself from the list, profited from the sale of his house in TP, shifted whole family to AUS except his daugther who is profiting fm our education system....for these I do not pity becos he is abusing his PR status...I think the reason he is still in SG becos of his job. Nothing else. If he is really so serious he would have taken up citizenship so easily availble to him. So why was he still a borderliner?
but I am not in favour of Gahmen when they interfere with SIA with union & issist that they follow suit N3UC style. I never consider N3UC to be a union at all.
The strong signal also meant that Gahmen never in favour of any union group's existance.
On not signing, the petition was a essentially a vote of no confidence against the exco which Capt Goh was a member of. Wouldn't it have looked funny that he voted to dismiss himself? Unlike certain thick-skinned Ministers who sit on the Board of Directors of certain companies while negotiating for the Employees of the same company against the management and claiming "absolutely no conflict of interests", I think Capt Goh recognised his connundrum here. Yes, maybe in this case he should have nothing to do with drafting of the petition, but like I've asked, was he the only guy, or was he the only fall guy?
Not standing either way here, just trying to look at it from another angle which could have been "accidentally" omitted from the press reports -
Firstly, a gentle reminder before reading the following text: Judge the message, not the messenger. I myself don't like CSJ, and don't agree with everything he says. But he does have a point here.
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SDP blasts Govt on pilot's PR revocation
10 March 2004
The revocation of Captain Ryan GohÂ’s permanent residence status brings the PAPÂ’s infamy for vindictiveness and pettiness to a new low. The pilot was well within his rights as a member of the Alpa-S to do whatever he could to influence the decision-making process of the union.
Whether he is a Singaporean or not, has a house in Perth or not, or has sold his HDB flat for a profit or not is no business of Mr Lee Kuan Yew and his ministers. What matters is whether Mr Ryan Goh acted within the parameters of his role as a member of the pilotsÂ’ union.
Will the Government tell Singaporeans whether Captain Goh has trespassed any law in Singapore or was his offence merely one in which he crossed the Senior Minister? What are the deeds or misdeeds of Mr Goh that led the Government to say that he is an “undesirable immigrant”?
Should the mere fact that he is only a Singaporean PR but having a say on issues affecting Singaporeans matter? If it does, then what about the foreigners (who may not even have PR status) who sit on the board of the National Wages Council to determine the wage levels of workers in Singapore? Does the hypocrisy even occur in the mind of the Government or has PAP become so callous through all these years of having no opposition to challenge its unjust ways?
Not only have the authorities not have the guts to tell Singaporeans the real facts but it now absurdly asserts that the pilot’s “(PR) status does not have anything to do with his role in last year’s ouster of the pilot union’s executive committee.” Singaporeans may have been silenced. But they are not dumb. The day will come when the voices of the people will be heard and the PAP will have much to account for.
It is inconceivable that in this present time when Singaporeans need to think independently (and yes, this includes disagreeing with the PAP Government) and act on oneÂ’s belief, the Government remains so pig-headed and resorts to petty nit-picking and personal vendettas. This will no doubt intimidate Singaporeans even more, if that is possible, and give the PAP yet more control but it will drive another nail into the coffin that carries the entrepreneurial can-do spirit of the country.
The PAP would do well to remember the old adage: You reap what you sow.
Chee Soon Juan
Secretary-General
Singapore Democratic Party -
i wouldn't say he was out to doom SIA, no one wants to lose his own job. but we can be sure that he doesn't want to be a singaporean.
1 reason i can think of for not putting his own name in the petition is because it wouldn't look nice if future employers found out about it. -
I am apalled by the fact that LKY can get his hand on so much information even before the meeting. I believe he had conducted thorough studies into the private lives of the people involved in this matter. He can even tell whether his daughter is comfortable studying in Australia or not... Now I am wondering if he is conducting studies on people that had expressed their views freely here...
I don't know how you all feel by is getting PR of other countries really that "unloyal" ? Can we really classified singapore citizens with PR status of other countries as bad sheeps ? Does getting PRs while maintaining his own citizenship indirectly mean one cannot be a leader of union or leader of a society in Singapore ? -
NOTHING is private from the paranoia of the system, socrates.Originally posted by socrates:I am apalled by the fact that LKY can get his hand on so much information even before the meeting. I believe he had conducted thorough studies into the private lives of the people involved in this matter. He can even tell whether his daughter is comfortable studying in Australia or not... Now I am wondering if he is conducting studies on people that had expressed their views freely here...
I don't know how you all feel by is getting PR of other countries really that "unloyal" ? Can we really classified singapore citizens with PR status of other countries as bad sheeps ? Does getting PRs while maintaining his own citizenship indirectly mean one cannot be a leader of union or leader of a society in Singapore ?
As for PRs being loyal or disloyal, you might want to refer to the following thread: Singaporean talents leaving... -
If you are an elected Member of the Committee, and if you DO NOT hold the same views as that of the other members of the Committee, will you still act in concert with the general membership to act against those who are more compliant with the SIA Management ?Originally posted by nismoS132:i wouldn't say he was out to doom SIA, no one wants to lose his own job. but we can be sure that he doesn't want to be a singaporean.
1 reason i can think of for not putting his own name in the petition is because it wouldn't look nice if future employers found out about it.
In the PAP, EVERY SINGLE PAP Member of Parliament is required to follow Party Politics, and to suppress their own conscience in representing the Singapore Constituents who gave them their VOTES, and will follow the PAP Leadership to pass the Legislations that will act against the Singapore Citizens.
At least at ALPA-S, Democracy is being practised that allow some differences in opinions, as was mentioned in my postings at 'SIA Girl Letter' - http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=71129
It is truly a shame that SM LKY being supposedly a World Class Statesman, and supposedly to be an Intellectual of the First World, is using Third World Politics to bring a Pilot Union in line, and making them bend to his personal will.
It is shameless that the State Security Apparatus is used to dig up the simple family affairs of Capt Ryan Goh, and the findings being dragged into the open to suit his own defination of what Politics should be.
If Capt Ryan Goh's PR status is now being questioned, then those other Singaporeans who hold the US Green Card, and PR status in one or more countries will also open themselves to question by the various Host Countries. -
PAP MPs that are being polite but making speech that are actually nothing but 'Double Speak', and refusing to say the issues as they are seen.
Yet Straits Times reporter try hard to glorify their daring stunt, which will surely be followed by Ministerial rebuttal to complete the wayang.
Are the MPs truly speaking for the Singapore Electorates that vote them into Parliament ?
SIA-PILOTS' DISPUTE: WHY DID SM HAVE TO STEP IN?
Veteran MP voices disquiet felt by some
But Tan Cheng Bock is confident that it is no reflection on the ability of younger ministers to manage difficult issues
By Lydia Lim
IT TOOK veteran MP Tan Cheng Bock to say aloud what has been on people's minds over a bitter dispute between Singapore Airlines (SIA) management and its pilots.
Why did Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew have to step in?
And what did it say about the younger ministers' ability to manage such issues?
Speaking in Parliament yesterday, the Ayer Rajah MP admitted raising a sensitive issue, but said he had to do so because of the 'disquiet' he sensed among Singaporeans.
He also wanted to lay to rest doubts over the younger leadership's ability to handle such crises on its own.
Mr Lee met members of the Air Line Pilots Association-Singapore (Alpa-S) two weeks ago to sort out the union's differences with management. Both sides agreed to mend fences and rebuild trust.
The Senior Minister had stepped in personally after the pilots ousted Alpa-S' leadership last November, a move that the Government read as the start of a confrontational stance in industrial relations.
Dr Tan said: 'Now one question that has been asked is, why is the Government interfering in this matter? Should this not be thrashed out by the management and the union?
'Why do we allow foreigners to sit on the union executive committee? What if a similar or even a more serious issue involving, say, a pilot strike were to happen in the future and there is no Lee Kuan Yew to crack some heads?
'I think these are legitimate questions being asked.'
But Singaporeans should not lose sleep over how the younger ministers would fare without Mr Lee, he was quick to add.
He himself had no doubts about their ability to manage crises. 'You watched how our new leaders handled Sars, the Asian financial crisis, and how they are managing our economic downturn.
'They have the confidence, they have the ability and we should support them,' he said, the emotion in his voice evident.
Mr Inderjit Singh (Ang Mo Kio GRC) also spoke, on Monday, about the direct involvement of 'very senior ministers' in the affairs of state-owned companies like SIA and PSA Corp.
Unlike Dr Tan, he spoke from the perspective of a businessman who has long objected to the Government's dominant role in the economy.
'In both cases, we see very senior ministers getting directly involved, despite the fact that both companies already have supposedly very strong management teams and boards.
'This is not a good signal and is not in line with what the Government has been saying about its role in managing companies owned through its investment arms,' he said.
He also criticised another minister who 'jumped the gun' to suggest publicly a transport companies merge.
'Both companies are listed and it should have been their own decision,' he said.