It's your 'duty' to procreate - What a load of rubbish
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I can imagine the firestorm that is going to be kicked up from this load of rubbish. There should be no "duty" involved in living one's life. A person's freedom of choice in choosing between procreating or not should never ever be allowed to be impinged upon. The very thought that our MPs are allowed to spout such preposterous notions in public debate horrifies me.
I have lived a long and productive life in Singapore and I have served my duty for Singapore continuously through National Service and being an active participant in the nation's labour pool. However, procreation IS AND SHOULD NOT be a duty.
Dr. Ong, as our society progresses, perhaps you should learn to drop your archaic, dynastic Middle Kingdom throwback behaviour. Please leave us alone, if we want to be alone in life.
I fervantly believe that Dr. Ong owes this nation's citizens an apology for his unthinkable remarks. WE ARE NOT SHEEP FOR YOU TO BREED AND MILK.
[b]It's your 'duty' to procreate
Carrots alone won't work; it's time for the stick, say several MPs, who want pressure put on married couples who don't want babies
By Tee Hun Ching
HAVING babies is a duty. Make that a duty to self, society and country.
Alarmed? You should be, if you are married and have no desire to procreate.
MPs like Dr Ong Seh Hong (Aljunied GRC) want to pump up the social pressure on such people whom he described as 'irresponsible'.
Yesterday, even as their counterparts continued pushing for carrots such as a five-day work week and cash incentives, Dr Ong and several MPs suggested it was also time to use the stick.
Indeed, the MPs argued passionately that procreation was a responsibility that people should fulfil regardless of sweeteners.
Adopting the most hardline stance among them all, Dr Ong emphasised traditional Asian values as he dismissed the common refrain that family planning is a personal decision.
Declared the father of three: 'Procreation is not only the duty of everyone, but also the responsibility of every citizen towards his family, parents, society and country.'
Those 'irresponsible' people who shun the stork, he said, should realise they would become a liability to the society in future.
To prevent this, he suggested making this group bear the costs of their old age by having them contribute to an account he called the 'Preventive Eldercare Account'.
The money in this account would then provide for their needs when they are old.
He said he believed that Chinese philosopher Mencius' words on filial piety - 'bu xiao you san, wu hou wei da' - still has relevance today. Translated, it means that 'of the three instances of unfilial behaviour, not having descendants is the worst'.
Mr Gan Kim Yong (Holland-Bukit Panjang GRC) also held out a Chinese phrase for those naysayers against children to ponder over - ai qing the jie jing. It means a baby is the product of love.
Marriage and having children came naturally to people of his generation without too much cost-benefit analysis, noted the 45-year-old father of two.
'Sure, there were problems and difficulties, but they add colour and richness to life. If you ask parents today, few of them would regret having babies despite all the difficulties,' he said.
He suggested an annual Love Campaign to add spark to the lives of young couples and help them appreciate the joy and fulfilment of having a family.
'It is like driving a car. We have the best engine, the lubricant is new and the tank is full. But when we turn the key, the engine does not come on because there is no spark in the chamber,' he said.
Dr Ong went a step further and proposed an all-out media blitz to promote family values.
Such messages, he said, could be transmitted through TV dramas 'highlighting the sorry plight of a childless old couple and the great problems faced by an ageing society'.
Joining in the chorus of MPs who lamented the erosion of values that led to having children being viewed less as a duty than a personal choice was Ms Penny Low (Pasir Ris-Punggol), who is single.
She said while children were a status symbol of sorts in the past, the reverse is true today.
The MP, who admitted she faced pressures to get married especially during Chinese New Year from well-meaning relatives, said: 'In the not-so-distant past, we had less to eat and wear, but we had more children to show. Today, we analyse and analyse the cost until we become paralysed by it.'[/b] -
... rather, its your duty to show us why we should procreate.
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i think the duty thing is not gonna go down well with singaporeans.. come on.. these are personal choices. even if there are strategic implications, there r better ways of selling this than making it a DUTY rite?! men has got one duty in the form of ns, wich incidentally is not really popular. u stil wan to give them another one?!
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sigh... "traditional asian values" rears is sickening head again... don't pple ever learn? there's no such thing! its fucking whatever these pig-headed politicians want it to be...
duty my arse... in theory, in a democracy, it is the duty of the elected government to be accountable to the electorate. i don't see anyone in the cabinet eagerly embracing that duty.
they should take a page out of history and think of the fact that no government has ever suceeded in making its citizenry procreate to meet a government target!!!
and only fascists governments have attempted to intervene in something as personal as this by invoking "civic duty"... so instead of traditional asian values, lets call it what it really is: totalitarian fascism. -
MPs like Dr Ong Seh Hong (Aljunied GRC) want to pump up the social pressure on such people whom he described as 'irresponsible'. Who is a declared father of three
I would love to see that how Dr Ong intends to 'punish'(referring to his usage of the stick) his children if they do not get married before 30 and have 3 kids... -
well done.
Piss and Piss have dropped the last veil of "democracy" and shown their true ugly dictatorial colours. -
(Dr Ong) He said he believed that Chinese philosopher Mencius' words on filial piety - 'bu xiao you san, wu hou wei da' - still has relevance today. Translated, it means that 'of the three instances of unfilial behaviour, not having descendants is the worst'.
Since he prescribes to the chinese tradition and saying, then he should have arranged marriages for all his three children. According to old chinese customs, the girls must be married off by 18. Ohh... another old chinese tradition is to bind girls feet otherwise, old chinese men will think its ugly to have big feet. What other old chinese traditions shall we abide to as well? -
I have just seen the full page article on the Straits Times. It's accompanied by a picture with OUR children splashed in the national colors of red and white. How sickening is it that the ST would mindlessly glorify such a repugnant stand?
I have long surfed sgforums as a silent witness, but it really took Dr. Ong's unthinking, fascistic notions to push me to put up a post. Such an ignorant diatribe on the citizens' freedom of choice to pursue "happiness, properity and progress" only highlights our public servants' appalling lack of touch with the realities of our society. It really saddens me that after all these years of progressive liberalization, our elected officials still rely so heavily on the crutch of stick-waving at its own populace to push through its public policies.
Our pursuit of the way we live our life is sacrosanct. We are not studs or mares upon which our public officials can perform their fascistic, eugenic polices on. -
how about this:
want us to have more children? sure. stop paying the ministers, the MPs and give that money to the citizens to have children. -
Oh no...not a dumb idea again like the SAT and other dumb ideas the goverment can think of....how many blunders must they do until they wake up
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they won't. we need to a change of govt.Originally posted by octega:Oh no...not a dumb idea again like the SAT and other dumb ideas the goverment can think of....how many blunders must they do until they wake up -
Honest mistakes
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every living being is brought to this world to procreate, it's called the cycle of life.
either way, i believe it is our duty to chuan zhong jie dai. -
agree! it's indeed a big load of rubbish!
i was really shocked and angry when i 1st read the article printed in straits times. this load of dirt and rubbish was said by an aljunied mp. wad the heck is the govt thinking and doing?? having babies ornot is our own rights. nothing to do with them. they even want to have love campaigns. kaoz. campaign here campaign there. everything uso campaign. why not campaign for a less interventionist govt who can just scram out of our private lives. to love and to make babies is our choice. nothing to do with them. they have no right to interfere. they are even suggesting some scheme to lock our money when the childless couples grow old. wad the heck. isn't the cpf enough? and do they really think we dun have brains and initiative to save money on our own?
maybe very soon they are going to ban abortion if all else fails.
and that mp's harsh words will have dire consequences. now in a globalised world, people can have immigration more easier than before. worst comes to worst, a certain percentage of people will rather give up their singaporean citizenship to live in other countries where they have more freedom and individual rights. and what happens then? BRAIN DRAIN. and what happens next? some big hoo-ha govt figure will say the STAYER/QUITTER thingy.
but the govt FAILS to understand 1 thing: IT'S THE OPPRESSIVE GOVT WHO DENIES INDV RIGHTS,FREEDOM OF CHOICE and EXISTENCE OF A PRIVATE SPHERE and A PROPER CIVIL SOCIETY, THAT ARE DRIVING THE BRAINS OUT OF THIS COUNTRY. they only know how to pinpoint others for fault and when will they ever learn to reflect on themselves 1st?
and as if all these not enough, the govt actually wants the educated to give birth to more babies whilst the less educated less. what is this? ELITIST EUGENICS. and who does this remind you of? ADOLF HITLER. get the link.
sometimes the govt really make things very suffocating for the people. that;s one of the consequences that result from a dominant, authoritarian one-party govt where no voices of the sound opposition can be heard. how i wish the opposition parties can be more capable and efficient when they are running for elections and even before elections.
and how i wish there'll be more opposition voted in as full-time MPs rather than NCMP or such where effectively they have no power and control at all. -
i wish too but the pap will never allow that to happen. power of incumbency has gone up to their heads.Originally posted by HENG@:they won't. we need to a change of govt. -
correct. facism is the word.Originally posted by Demosthenes:I have just seen the full page article on the Straits Times. It's accompanied by a picture with OUR children splashed in the national colors of red and white. How sickening is it that the ST would mindlessly glorify such a repugnant stand?
I have long surfed sgforums as a silent witness, but it really took Dr. Ong's unthinking, fascistic notions to push me to put up a post. Such an ignorant diatribe on the citizens' freedom of choice to pursue "happiness, properity and progress" only highlights our public servants' appalling lack of touch with the realities of our society. It really saddens me that after all these years of progressive liberalization, our elected officials still rely so heavily on the crutch of stick-waving at its own populace to push through its public policies.
Our pursuit of the way we live our life is sacrosanct. We are not studs or mares upon which our public officials can perform their fascistic, eugenic polices on. -
an appeal to all aljunied residents... VOTE THIS PERSON OUT!!Originally posted by www: -
Originally posted by Coco_Coco:
it is not. it should be dictatorism
correct. [b]facism is the word. [/b] -
there's no such word lah... totalitarian fascism is as good a description as any in this case.Originally posted by HENG@:it is not. it should be dictatorism
isn't it cute that mussolini describes the program of fascism as "action, action and more action" ... and he too tried to get Italian women to give birth more...
he wanted to double Italy's population in one generation, so women were told to give birth to 7 (SEVEN!!!) children...
needless to say, it failed... -
isn't it worse that u bring a life into the world without having the means to bring the child up properly in this terrible world we now live in?Originally posted by nismoS132:every living being is brought to this world to procreate, it's called the cycle of life.
either way, i believe it is our duty to chuan zhong jie dai. -
Originally posted by CX:
self invented, mon cherie
there's no such word lah... totalitarian fascism is as good a description as any in this case.
isn't it cute that mussolini describes the program of fascism as "action, action and more action" ... and he too tried to get Italian women to give birth more...
he wanted to double Italy's population in one generation, so women were told to give birth to 7 [b](SEVEN!!!) children...
needless to say, it failed...
[/b]
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I think the point is that there should be space and respect for an individual's decision to have a child, regardless of number, or not to have one.
As an earlier forumer said, the way we live our lives is sacrosanct. To threaten punishment for not adhering to someone's preconceived notion of what's acceptable or dutiful, is going to far.Originally posted by CX:isn't it worse that u bring a life into the world without having the means to bring the child up properly in this terrible world we now live in?
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Originally posted by nismoS132:
every living being is brought to this world to procreate, it's called the cycle of life.
either way, i believe it is our duty to chuan zhong jie dai.
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Boy, for a "world class" government, ours sure seems to be too pig-headed to listen.
Even though I myself will not elect to have kids here, there I was thinking that giving more and more carrots *might* actually work. For all that talk of "pro family environment" and associated crap, comes more rubbish in the form of this big stick.
As for Ms Penny Low, old-maid in chief, who are you to criticise married Singaporean couples for not having kids, when you are single?
CX is right, the true colours of our government manifests itself... -
Now we are really being asked ( or even ordered ) to, STAND UP for Singapore.
This is PERPOSTROUS!!
A duty to procreate?? What the $#@! are they doing. So what if people don't have s-e-x and have babies?? Kick them out of the country?? Fine even? Or higher tax for childless couples?
PAP, always do everything by force. If they so dang smart, they should have foreseen this baby shortage issue decades ago!!