It's your 'duty' to procreate - What a load of rubbish
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Precisely. Technically, we are already punished for not having more children in the form of baby tax rebates which flow through to child-bearing couples. Furthermore, single-child parents have disadvantages relating to choice of school.Originally posted by choco B:I think the point is that there should be space and respect for an individual's decision to have a child, regardless of number, or not to have one.
As an earlier forumer said, the way we live our lives is sacrosanct. To threaten punishment for not adhering to someone's preconceived notion of what's acceptable or dutiful, is going to far.
Is Dr. Ong's suggested policy so very different from that of open discrimination against citizens by race, religion and income? If a society is willing to kowtow to such brute social engineering, where then shall we stop?
I accept that Singapore already practices its own subtle forms of racial and religious discrimination. However, the notion that it is OUR DUTY to bear children is one that should even shock us from our stupor of political and social apathy. -
think National Service is not just about Army and reservist....they going to add one more thing....procreate!!!
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y not get parliament to pass a jail sentence for couples who nv have babies after x years.. more to the point..
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I think this has GONE TOO FAR.Preposterous and simply imbecile in nature to assume we would listenn to your inane and appallingly high-handed moralising,well, I don't even consider that a good example of moral standing when you COERCE a individual to submit to your Masters' needs...
What would it take for the MIW to wake up their ideas and realise that Singapore is not a fiefdom for them to rule as they please.We are not products of their RULE.Without Singapore, where would these insidious snakes be?We do not live in primitive times, where you can come and tell us what to do, and our minds will bend unyielding to your petty needs.
Is it the orgasmic rush that these lameasses get when they give orders?
Mussolini..wherefore art thou?Your followers have run amok! -
like that who want to get married?? then you got to set an age limit to jail all those who dont marry by a certain age??Originally posted by Ecxentrique:y not get parliament to pass a jail sentence for couples who nv have babies after x years.. more to the point..
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ok, now thats seriously fcuked up. wtf, whether i want babies is my own god damned business. whats next? MPs want to join couples in the bedroom to "spot check" on them?
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Once again, the bungling of several elements of the ruiling party is plain for all to see.
When 'carrots' fail, the short end of the stick becomes a whip to flog those 'irresponsible' sheep into shape. The sheep herder should be promoted to a horse whipper given the vicious speed and venomous strikes at those poor victimised 'animals' out there.
When all else fails and birth rates fall, blame the poor defenseless masses who are pacified into submission, who 'complied' with the horse whippers when they dangled the carrot for "two's enough" but now are the victims of their own success. Even suckers never fall for the same trick twice and the horse whippers have learnt the hard way that dangling those richly orange fuits a second time isn't gonna work.
All this cues them to shift the blame for their mistake to us.
How typically arrogant and self-righteous of them by implying they can do no wrong when the fact is their 'grand design' of population control has failed miserably and like all Government boards, push the blame to others.
Tui(1) xie(4) Zhe(2) Ren(4) comes to mind.... -
It's all about money and economy when come to this problem! Goverment want us to produce more babies so that when we r old and sick,govt no need to take care of us and ask us to look for yr son or daughter to take care of u.They want to even save money on old folk's home. More younger citizen can also help them make more money for spore and less chances of illness for them to take care so that their pocket and budget will continue to grow! U think they really care about development of spore families and traditional asia values. It's just another propaganda and excuse!
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They can certainly force people to procreate if they want.
Take note that NS is compulsory and not an option. But then, that would mean a step back from civilisation. Ha.
They can always get more foreign babies. Even wondered why they don't?
It's the Chinese birthrate that's low. Other ethnic groups are normal. Sometime to think about. -
pah.. once again they are emphasising confucian teachings. If i'm Indian or Malay or Eurasian must I believe in that?
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it depends on what you would mean by proper. our grandfathers managed to bring up mouths of close to 10. i believe it all comes down to level of comfort, and the amount of luxuries you're willing to fore go.Originally posted by CX:isn't it worse that u bring a life into the world without having the means to bring the child up properly in this terrible world we now live in? -
banned the import and sales of condom....
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Its bs. Absolutely bs.
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we were just looking at neon tetras just now, and she kept pronouncing them as neon tecras until i told her it's t-e-t-r-a, not t-e-c-r-aOriginally posted by NeonTetra:banned the import and sales of condom.... 
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Apparently they only select some parts of "asian" culture when it deems fit in their favour and enforce them while avoiding the parts which would undermine them.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Apparently they only select some parts of "asian" culture when it deems fit in their favour and enforce them while avoiding the parts which would undermine them. How appropriate.
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Don't be surprised. They might consider that. Then a lot of us will meet in prison. Hopefully by then, they can install computers in the prison for all of us to keep in contactOriginally posted by Bochupi:like that who want to get married?? then you got to set an age limit to jail all those who dont marry by a certain age?? -
Isn't that the whole idea?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Apparently they only select some parts of "asian" culture when it deems fit in their favour and enforce them while avoiding the parts which would undermine them. -
"Carrot" or "stick" - Is that all the govt can think of?????
Why can't the govt use some emotional appeal? Having children is a very emotional and personal thing.
How about reminding the married couple the actual meaning of having children together? Like making movies that revolves around young parents with children etc -
Originally posted by Demosthenes:
I can imagine the firestorm that is going to be kicked up from this load of rubbish. There should be no "duty" involved in living one's life. A person's freedom of choice in choosing between procreating or not should never ever be allowed to be impinged upon. The very thought that our MPs are allowed to spout such preposterous notions in public debate horrifies me.
I have lived a long and productive life in Singapore and I have served my duty for Singapore continuously through National Service and being an active participant in the nation's labour pool. However, procreation IS AND SHOULD NOT be a duty.
Dr. Ong, as our society progresses, perhaps you should learn to drop your archaic, dynastic Middle Kingdom throwback behaviour. Please leave us alone, if we want to be alone in life.
I fervantly believe that Dr. Ong owes this nation's citizens an apology for his unthinkable remarks. WE ARE NOT SHEEP FOR YOU TO BREED AND MILK.
[b][b]It's your 'duty' to procreate
Carrots alone won't work; it's time for the stick, say several MPs, who want pressure put on married couples who don't want babies
By Tee Hun Ching
HAVING babies is a duty. Make that a duty to self, society and country.
Alarmed? You should be, if you are married and have no desire to procreate.
MPs like Dr Ong Seh Hong (Aljunied GRC) want to pump up the social pressure on such people whom he described as 'irresponsible'.
Yesterday, even as their counterparts continued pushing for carrots such as a five-day work week and cash incentives, Dr Ong and several MPs suggested it was also time to use the stick.
Indeed, the MPs argued passionately that procreation was a responsibility that people should fulfil regardless of sweeteners.
Adopting the most hardline stance among them all, Dr Ong emphasised traditional Asian values as he dismissed the common refrain that family planning is a personal decision.
Declared the father of three: 'Procreation is not only the duty of everyone, but also the responsibility of every citizen towards his family, parents, society and country.'
Those 'irresponsible' people who shun the stork, he said, should realise they would become a liability to the society in future.
To prevent this, he suggested making this group bear the costs of their old age by having them contribute to an account he called the 'Preventive Eldercare Account'.
The money in this account would then provide for their needs when they are old.
He said he believed that Chinese philosopher Mencius' words on filial piety - 'bu xiao you san, wu hou wei da' - still has relevance today. Translated, it means that 'of the three instances of unfilial behaviour, not having descendants is the worst'.
Mr Gan Kim Yong (Holland-Bukit Panjang GRC) also held out a Chinese phrase for those naysayers against children to ponder over - ai qing the jie jing. It means a baby is the product of love.
Marriage and having children came naturally to people of his generation without too much cost-benefit analysis, noted the 45-year-old father of two.
'Sure, there were problems and difficulties, but they add colour and richness to life. If you ask parents today, few of them would regret having babies despite all the difficulties,' he said.
He suggested an annual Love Campaign to add spark to the lives of young couples and help them appreciate the joy and fulfilment of having a family.
'It is like driving a car. We have the best engine, the lubricant is new and the tank is full. But when we turn the key, the engine does not come on because there is no spark in the chamber,' he said.
Dr Ong went a step further and proposed an all-out media blitz to promote family values.
Such messages, he said, could be transmitted through TV dramas 'highlighting the sorry plight of a childless old couple and the great problems faced by an ageing society'.
Joining in the chorus of MPs who lamented the erosion of values that led to having children being viewed less as a duty than a personal choice was Ms Penny Low (Pasir Ris-Punggol), who is single.
She said while children were a status symbol of sorts in the past, the reverse is true today.
The MP, who admitted she faced pressures to get married especially during Chinese New Year from well-meaning relatives, said: 'In the not-so-distant past, we had less to eat and wear, but we had more children to show. Today, we analyse and analyse the cost until we become paralysed by it.'[/b][/b] -
In the 70s, SINGAPOREANS get FINED when they have 3rd child.
So PAP, why don't you use the same trick la ... FINE us if married and fertile couples won't have children after 3 years of marriage la ...
And kiss your sorry ass goodbye in 2007 ... -
Just by reading the fool's statement pisses me off. These fugging dinosaurs are contributing to policy decisions. No wonder people jump ship to a foreign land if given the chance. The question is why these dinosaurs are still elected?Originally posted by wuming78:i think the duty thing is not gonna go down well with singaporeans.. come on.. these are personal choices. even if there are strategic implications, there r better ways of selling this than making it a DUTY rite?! men has got one duty in the form of ns, wich incidentally is not really popular. u stil wan to give them another one?!
On one hand, the top-tier leaders are trying to remake Singapore into a less authoritative place. On the other, these arse0s are turning back the clock.
My statement to Dr Ong: Go preach to your own sons...see how they react. -
Originally posted by Demosthenes:
In the end, who's benefiting and who's having the burden of having more children? The people or the garmen?
I can imagine the firestorm that is going to be kicked up from this load of rubbish. There should be no "duty" involved in living one's life. A person's freedom of choice in choosing between procreating or not should never ever be allowed to be impinged upon. The very thought that our MPs are allowed to spout such preposterous notions in public debate horrifies me.
I have lived a long and productive life in Singapore and I have served my duty for Singapore continuously through National Service and being an active participant in the nation's labour pool. However, procreation IS AND SHOULD NOT be a duty.
Dr. Ong, as our society progresses, perhaps you should learn to drop your archaic, dynastic Middle Kingdom throwback behaviour. Please leave us alone, if we want to be alone in life.
I fervantly believe that Dr. Ong owes this nation's citizens an apology for his unthinkable remarks. WE ARE NOT SHEEP FOR YOU TO BREED AND MILK.
[b][b]It's your 'duty' to procreate
Carrots alone won't work; it's time for the stick, say several MPs, who want pressure put on married couples who don't want babies
By Tee Hun Ching
HAVING babies is a duty. Make that a duty to self, society and country.
Alarmed? You should be, if you are married and have no desire to procreate.
MPs like Dr Ong Seh Hong (Aljunied GRC) want to pump up the social pressure on such people whom he described as 'irresponsible'.
Yesterday, even as their counterparts continued pushing for carrots such as a five-day work week and cash incentives, Dr Ong and several MPs suggested it was also time to use the stick.
Indeed, the MPs argued passionately that procreation was a responsibility that people should fulfil regardless of sweeteners.
Adopting the most hardline stance among them all, Dr Ong emphasised traditional Asian values as he dismissed the common refrain that family planning is a personal decision.
Declared the father of three: 'Procreation is not only the duty of everyone, but also the responsibility of every citizen towards his family, parents, society and country.'
Those 'irresponsible' people who shun the stork, he said, should realise they would become a liability to the society in future.
To prevent this, he suggested making this group bear the costs of their old age by having them contribute to an account he called the 'Preventive Eldercare Account'.
The money in this account would then provide for their needs when they are old.
He said he believed that Chinese philosopher Mencius' words on filial piety - 'bu xiao you san, wu hou wei da' - still has relevance today. Translated, it means that 'of the three instances of unfilial behaviour, not having descendants is the worst'.
Mr Gan Kim Yong (Holland-Bukit Panjang GRC) also held out a Chinese phrase for those naysayers against children to ponder over - ai qing the jie jing. It means a baby is the product of love.
Marriage and having children came naturally to people of his generation without too much cost-benefit analysis, noted the 45-year-old father of two.
'Sure, there were problems and difficulties, but they add colour and richness to life. If you ask parents today, few of them would regret having babies despite all the difficulties,' he said.
He suggested an annual Love Campaign to add spark to the lives of young couples and help them appreciate the joy and fulfilment of having a family.
'It is like driving a car. We have the best engine, the lubricant is new and the tank is full. But when we turn the key, the engine does not come on because there is no spark in the chamber,' he said.
Dr Ong went a step further and proposed an all-out media blitz to promote family values.
Such messages, he said, could be transmitted through TV dramas 'highlighting the sorry plight of a childless old couple and the great problems faced by an ageing society'.
Joining in the chorus of MPs who lamented the erosion of values that led to having children being viewed less as a duty than a personal choice was Ms Penny Low (Pasir Ris-Punggol), who is single.
She said while children were a status symbol of sorts in the past, the reverse is true today.
The MP, who admitted she faced pressures to get married especially during Chinese New Year from well-meaning relatives, said: 'In the not-so-distant past, we had less to eat and wear, but we had more children to show. Today, we analyse and analyse the cost until we become paralysed by it.'[/b][/b]
Getting more rubbish these days.
Garmen wants people to get married and have children. I will say: get married if you love has reach the next peak phrase - children or not doesn't matter because IN MARRIAGE, IT'S ONLY BETWEEN TWO. Even if the couple is childless due to circumstances (biological, social, financial, etc), bonds in marriage exist only in two. It's true children are reasons for fulfilling marriage, but when circumstances don't allow that - it's like your parents forbiding your relationship to the extend of disliking your partner.
Will you let that affect your relationship?
Usually what will people do? Fight and make sure their love remains stronger than what others thought it would fail.
Do they seriously thinking that having children means fulfilling marriages? Rubbish. Fulfilling marriage can happen with or without kids because... marriage is only between two.
P.S: Garmen should spend more time and money in looking after couples who TRULY desire kids but couldn't have them biologically (at least its part of their desire to enter the next phrase of their love) instead of employing negative reinforcement on the masses to make them breed.
Cheers -
Originally posted by CX:
On one hand the tell us, globalization is a must. No one owe us a living. We are on our own and the competitive arena is bigger now. Fine. We are Sporeans and we take it in our stride.
sigh... "traditional asian values" rears is sickening head again... don't pple ever learn? there's no such thing! its fuck[b]ing whatever these pig-headed politicians want it to be...
duty my arse... in theory, in a democracy, it is the duty of the elected government to be accountable to the electorate. i don't see anyone in the cabinet eagerly embracing that duty.
they should take a page out of history and think of the fact that no government has ever suceeded in making its citizenry procreate to meet a government target!!!
and only fascists governments have attempted to intervene in something as personal as this by invoking "civic duty"... so instead of traditional asian values, lets call it what it really is: totalitarian fascism.
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On the other, such remarks and reference to traditional Asian values (some are good and worth keeping, while others are plainly obsolete!) to screw and have more kids which boggs us down more financially and in terms of mobility and risk-taking capabilities is counterproductive.
What an idiot. Doctor my arse! -
I always voted PAP without even considering despite my greviances. This guy, this guy really agitates me that I will vote against it in the future.Originally posted by www:
Why? If you are to micromanage my life until this extent, what do I have to lose?