It's your 'duty' to procreate - What a load of rubbish
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the mere fact that they can have such ideas, shows how they view us and the way they think we should be run.Originally posted by socrates:Aiyoh... don't get so agitated yet since up till this present moment it is still just a suggestion... They haven't implement the "stick" yet lah... Some of you guys seems to be ready for a rebellion or something...
maybe they should just declare singapore to be a monarchy with old man as the king!
then we can all be peseants n all bow down to him and chant "all hail ye king!" -
When you have elected fools and clowns as MP,
you get served by fools and clowns. -
Atobe: Contrary to common perceptions, China, the big cities, are even less imposing than what we have here...I have been living there for 3 years now. Officials that come out with this kind of statement will be laughed at and they are becoming ultra-sensitive to public opinion as the world's media spotlight is on them.Originally posted by Atobe:This kind of crap thinking, coming from a PAP MP, is the result of the high handed methods in which LKY has been using since the PAP first ruled Singapore - from Self-Government in 1957, and since independence in 1965.
The past methods used by LKY, and its continued encouragement of the practices adopted by the current Cabinet, is a very close semblance of the same methods employed by closed societies such as Communist Russia and China.
Duty to the Nation, the Government, the Citizens.
Every INDIVIDUAL EFFORT is to serve a National Purpose.
Now the shadow of a Communist Type Political System is slowly revealing itself clearer - even when we are constantly fed with the false threats of Communist Cells, each time the Ruling Party has to deal with those threatening the Ruling Party's political interests. -
But the fact that our modern day Spore policy makers are even thinking along such a line is both startling and unsettling.Originally posted by socrates:Aiyoh... don't get so agitated yet since up till this present moment it is still just a suggestion... They haven't implement the "stick" yet lah... Some of you guys seems to be ready for a rebellion or something...
Like I said in other topics, please do NOT treat us as if we are trishaw cyclists and kampung kids of the 60s and 70s. -
BREED!
BREED!
BREED!
GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY!!!
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How on earth did this guy get his P.H.D ah?
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now i feel like a hamster...Originally posted by Yunhaier:BREED!
BREED!
BREED!
GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY!!! -
Poly.Halfway.Dropout - what so special about that?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:How on earth did this guy get his P.H.D ah? -
very easily... wait till u read chee soon juan's phd... its a no brainer... feed rats some noxious stuff, record their behavior... *yawn* ...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:How on earth did this guy get his P.H.D ah?
if u pay for it, its even easier... just go through can liao... very unlikely to fail one... -
Straits Times
MARCH 13, 2004
MP ONG SEH HONG CLEARS THE AIR
My speech taken out of context
I REFER to the report, 'It's your 'duty' to procreate' (ST, March 10), and the letters to the Forum (ST, March 12).
My Budget speech, which was made in Mandarin, had been taken out of context, resulting in these myths:
I dismissed the notion that family planning is a personal decision.
I suggested that procreation is a duty to the state, implying a legal duty.
I suggested using the stick on couples who do not have children.
I neither suggested such draconian measures nor called for the stick to be employed. I have not suggested that infertile couples be penalised.
I referred to procreation as a moral obligation to our parents, families, society and the country. I did not refer to it as a duty to the state.
The translation of the relevant part of my speech in Mandarin was: 'It is not only the bounden duty of everyone to procreate but it is also the moral obligation (or moral responsibility) of every citizen towards his family, parents, society and the state.'
However, the report omitted the words 'bounden' and 'moral' and quoted me as saying: 'Procreation is not only the duty of everyone but also the responsibility of every citizen towards his family, parents, society and country.' The omission of the two key words distorted my meaning.
When I drafted my speech, I took into account the feedback of my residents. Many suggested that where procreation was once a means to carry on the family name, today it served to make the family more complete. Several elderly constituents lamented that they felt life was incomplete because their children had not borne them grandchildren.
In Mencius' mind, knowing and not fulfilling one's parents' wishes makes one guilty of being unfilial. This was the intention of my allusion to Mencius.
My mention of moral responsibility to other citizens and to society at large, taken in the context of my speech, also refers to the belief that our actions have repercussions on others. In this sense, not having children today, which I agree is an individual's choice, has repercussions on society. In my speech, I also called for various incentives, like extending maternity leave up to the fifth child. This was not reported.
I noted that our early policy on family planning heavily penalised mothers who had more than two children. So I specifically called for 'refraining from penalising those who choose not to have children but to make the latter prepare for their old age'.
Procreation is a delicate matter and I have been balanced in my approach.
DR ONG SEH HONG
MP for Aljunied GRC -
In Mencius' mind, knowing and not fulfilling one's parents' wishes makes one guilty of being unfilial. This was the intention of my allusion to Mencius.
and what business has he to allude to that? so pple are being fillial if they gives birth to children they cannot afford, and instead burden their aged parents with the care of that child?
grandparents may want grandchildren, but aren't the parents themselves in a better position to decide if they can afford it? should the decision to have children STILL remain with the individual instead of society, parental pressures or WORSE, state initiative?!
our politicians very smart right?
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Now he's wild weaseling ain't he?
A moral obgilation to procreate?
In that case, The Parth must be immoral because it was stumbling Singaporeans and discouraging them from having children, and now reverse the trend and project the "moral obgilation" onto the people now. I hardly see them renouncing their errors, if anything, it has always seemed to be the people's fault ain't it?
One thing's for sure, if I ever have children, I'll certainly not have them for The Party's best interests. The bottom line is, they need more meat for the grinder and now they are trying to twist our arms using arty-farty arguments by building arguments around every single thing they can graspe in order to get the motor started.
Seesh, they always want to have their cake and eat it too right? -
I can't even read beyond the 'burden' and 'moral' part. The rest is pure damage control and mitigation.Originally posted by CX:and what business has he to allude to that? so pple are being fillial if they gives birth to children they cannot afford, and instead burden their aged parents with the care of that child?
grandparents may want grandchildren, but aren't the parents themselves in a better position to decide if they can afford it? should the decision to have children STILL remain with the individual instead of society, parental pressures or WORSE, state initiative?!
our politicians very smart right?
Even if the editors did omit those two words from his context, it still changes nothing. Since when did it become a moral obligation to procreate for our parents and forefathers?
Sheer hogwash from this sad excuse of an MP. Such narrow-minded thinking and selective comprehension on his part. To distort the teachings of mencius to serve his warped vision is perverted hipocracy, but coming from a disciple of the gahmen, can't say i'm surprised. -
Next when their 'brillant' birth control plans fails they start to contemplate cloning.....waitamin it's failed already!
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I think we should sign a petition to demand an apology from Dr Ong Seh Hong for saying such a nonsensical thing... Making babies a duty for the natioN!!?? I think if this news gets leaked to other nations, we will be the laughing stock of the world... WE ARE HUMANS! NOT ANIMALS!
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My guess is that he listened to all those old-timer constituents who dont have to struggle in today's world and less of young ppl like us.Originally posted by CX:and what business has he to allude to that? so pple are being fillial if they gives birth to children they cannot afford, and instead burden their aged parents with the care of that child?
grandparents may want grandchildren, but aren't the parents themselves in a better position to decide if they can afford it? should the decision to have children STILL remain with the individual instead of society, parental pressures or WORSE, state initiative?!
our politicians very smart right? -
Three things struck me when reading that letter this morning:
1) Dr. Ong doesn't know the meaning of "words taken out of context" and
2) As some have said, hes trying to do damage control and weaseling his way out of the mess he created.
3) His attempt at (2) is pathetically lame.
Sure, his elderly constituents want grandchildren. Which parent doesn't? But when he bandied this fact about, did he bother to find out the family situation of his constituent's children's families? Are they struggling in insecure jobs making barely enough to cover their HDB loans, education loans, their own and their aged parent's living expenses? Its easy to judge the actions of others when you're sitting in an ivory tower like he is.
I don't expect the elderly to all understand the facts of life for our generation, but I certainly expect that of one of Singapore's MPs, someone with a doctorate to boot. -
i don't think his elderly constituents are to blame... and i don't think he got his inspiration from them... its all very convenient lah...Originally posted by Viper52:Sure, his elderly constituents want grandchildren. Which parent doesn't? But when he bandied this fact about, did he bother to find out the family situation of his constituent's children's families? Are they struggling in insecure jobs making barely enough to cover their HDB loans, education loans, their own and their aged parent's living expenses? Its easy to judge the actions of others when you're sitting in an ivory tower like he is.
I don't expect the elderly to all understand the facts of life for our generation, but I certainly expect that of one of Singapore's MPs, someone with a doctorate to boot.
declining birth rates, parliament wants to talk about it, so he jump on the bandwagon with his half digested mencius lor...
tell him get real lah... confucius also says that the pple are justified to overthrow an unvirtuous and immoral ruler. this is judged by the mandate of heaven.
so judging by the recent floods, floundering economy and the objectionable stuff that out politicians are saying these days, i'll say that they've lost the mandate of heaven...
so i'm gonna put on my armour, grab my spear and raise a rebel army like liu pang...
please lor... 2000 year old philosophy can anyhow apply this way ah? they seriously talking cock man... -
What really galls me is that he is exactly the kind of half-baked clowns that get into parliament through walkovers by hiding under the skirt of (usually) just as half-baked a minister, courtesy of the phucked-up GRC system that we have.
Can jokers like him even claim to have the people's mandate? I think not
BTW CX, I like your analogy. It sure makes more sense than this sorry excuse of an MP! -
always glad to entertain...
maybe politicians should start hiring professional script writers... -
Haha...good one, CX. True, all those major rebellions in Chinese history have almost always been preceded by the flooding of the Yangze and / or Huanghe.Originally posted by CX:so judging by the recent floods, floundering economy and the objectionable stuff that out politicians are saying these days, i'll say that they've lost the mandate of heaven...
A lot of politicians and bureaucrats ruling over Chinese people these days seem to think that the Chinese are a meek, placid and obedient people, a people they can manipulate and exploit at will for their own personal advantage. They obviously haven't read their history, which has demonstrated that, as alluded to by CX, the Chinese have a strong tradition of rebelling against inept and / or oppressive rulers. Major national revolutions have often been the driving force behind Chinese history, bringing about much needed change and national rejuvenation. Heck, never mind history, Dr Ong and his friends obviously don't know what happened in Hong Kong in July last year.
Will we have a 'revolution' of sorts at the next elections? -
The more i read the article, the more my blood boils. I think he is simply ridiculous to say such nonsense... Forcing those who have no children to contribute to a 'Preventive Eldercare Account'?
I hope the whole of Singapore gets to know this news and do something!... Either Mr Ong apologises to us publicly for treating us like animals, or he resigns from his post. -
If getting a PhD is so simple, as you have described...... why do you - or any of us - NOT make an effort to grab such a supposedly easy achievement ?Originally posted by CX:very easily... wait till u read chee soon juan's phd... its a no brainer... feed rats some noxious stuff, record their behavior... *yawn* ...
if u pay for it, its even easier... just go through can liao... very unlikely to fail one...
Your comment is unfortunate, as it belittle all others who have sweated and made sacrifices to work towards such a qualification.
Two nutcases - both with Doctorates - do not make all Doctorate Holders to be in the same basket.
At least, with this one from the Ruling Party (and causing the most damage), it shows that CLOWNS are not exclusively from the Opposition Parties.
Surely you can give this man, Dr Chee Soon Juan, some credit at least for his personal achievements, even if you cannot agree with his style of politics ?
At least he seems to have the courage of building a FAMILY - with one or two children - DESPITE his adversities and the obstacles that are placed in his way.
What does it say to the Other Singaporeans remaining CHILDLESS despite being in a better state than Dr Chee ?
It is so easy to remain in the comfort and security of Politcal Anonymity, and simply become a bystander in the Political Life of Singapore.
It is so easy to be on the sidelines, and wait for someone capable enough to topple the existing Political Machinery, before making any personal commitment or contribution.
If you cannot give him credit for his courage or foolishness, at least stop grinding him into dust. -
i'm not belittling it, i just think that we need to think beyond it and not assume that everyone who has a phd is "somebody" cos thats obviously flawed.Originally posted by Atobe:If getting a PhD is so simple, as you have described...... why do you - or any of us - NOT make an effort to grab such a supposedly easy achievement ?
Your comment is unfortunate, as it belittle all others who have sweated and made sacrifices to work towards such a qualification.
a phd is no longer what it used to be... it used to be that u had to make an original contribution to the field to get it... and u spent half your life going for it.
THAT is a phd deserving of respect.
ask around today... its not all that hard. american universities offer a direct track to phd... u go for it straight after your degree... no need masters... direct phd in 5+ years.
its no longer as exclusive or as demanding. maybe pple getting smarter? or maybe the path growing more defined? but really... i'm not talking big here... its really not a big deal anymore.
u never "fail" post-graduate studies these days... the toughest part is the oral defence and most pple get through it by the second time. the worse that could happen is that u're on a scholarship and they cut your funding cos u see no sign of finishing your thesis... that's when u effectively fail... but it seldom happens. i don't have exact stats, but most pple i know finished it in 5+ years...
if your company has corporate membership for the nus library, go find CSJ's dissertation to read. its a no brainer... mind u i am comparing here... i have read FARKING good ones and this, is a very BAD one...
btw... i AM saving money so i can further my studies... a phd is definitely on my list... -
Hey, yun yi, thats my line....Originally posted by Yunhaier:BREED!
BREED!
BREED!
GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY!!!