Home > Speaker's Corner

Baby problem: What about the employers?

Viper52
10 Mar 04, 18:58

With attitudes like this coming from employers, is it any wonder why Singaporeans are reluctant to have babies? If the government is really looking to encourage a "pro-family" environment, and punishing those from standing in the way of Singapore's attempts to increase its birthrate, maybe they should start with Mr. Yap and his friend.

As I've said in the thread Maternity leave should be extended? More care centers?, "An extension in mandatory maternity leave should be backed up with changes to the employment act to ensure mothers to be are not unfairly dismissed by unscrupulous employers." Like those illustrated below.

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Extend maternity leave to no more than 3 months

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,4386,239072-1078869540,00.html?

I CAN'T help feeling annoyed about the Government's recent suggestion to extend maternity leave from the current two months to four or six months.

Such an incentive may help to increase our population a little, but I question if this is the best way of motivating couples to have more babies. After all, parenthood is more than just about having babies. Lots of responsibility go with it, and couples must be prepared for the lifelong commitment to care for and bond with their children.

Being the youngest in a family of nine siblings - spaced a year or two apart - I was told when I was 14 that immediately after I was born, my mum considered giving me away to a nurse. Although I fully understood what she was going through at the time, I could not help feeling hurt, that perhaps I was an accident.

However, my late father, who was a pig farmer, was determined that no matter how poor he was, he would raise me, never mind the cost. To this day, I am deeply grateful to him for showing me that there is a whole lot of responsibility tied to parenthood.

Apart from the qualitative aspects of parenthood, I view the issue of longer maternity leave as being detrimental to business productivity and efficiency, and which would invariably raise the cost of doing business in Singapore.

A neighbour told me candidly that if the Government passed a law to extend maternity leave, he would stop hiring women who wanted to start a family. Even if a woman said she had no plans, he would advise her to practise birth control!

It is time Singaporeans stopped expecting the Government to do everything for them. If some young couples do not wish to have children, so be it.

At a recent gathering of the Singapore business community in Shanghai, a woman kept telling Minister of State (Foreign Affairs and Trade & Industry) Raymond Lim that the Singapore Government should make an effort to keep her whole family together in Shanghai and to provide school facilities for her children there.

I was shocked to discover that despite being abroad for a few years, she still entertained the notion that it was the Government's responsibility to provide all these for her.

While I can accept the fact that attitudes and mindsets require some time to change, I was flabbergasted when I read in Lianhe Wanbao that a woman actually suggested that four to six months' maternity leave was insufficient, that it should be at least one year!

We need not be alarmed if the birth rate continues to fall. Our policy of welcoming foreign talents who want to be Singaporeans should help to augment the numbers.

It might also help to re-inject life into our nation as many of us are too reliant on government help. After all, Singapore started as an immigrant nation.

As a member of the business community, I urge the Government to rethink its recommendation. Perhaps it would be fair to allow for maternity leave of three months, including one month to be subsidised by the Government.

It is ludicrous that couples should have more children just because the mother could stay home longer. While I empathise with the stress that working couples go through, to expect to have more children on account of that incentive alone is very worrying.

Imagine how hurt the children would be if they are told later: 'Honey, we had you because the Government allowed Mummy to have longer maternity leave.'

KENNY YAP KIM LEE
Executive Chairman
Qian Hu Corporation
Ecxentrique
10 Mar 04, 19:14

its not without truth to what they say. On one hand govt trying to promote local enterprise, on the other hand they baby problems..
Viper52
10 Mar 04, 20:33

Originally posted by Ecxentrique:
its not without truth to what they say. On one hand govt trying to promote local enterprise, on the other hand they baby problems..
Yes, of course businesses have their own bottomline to look after. But that is where finding middle ground comes in. This is precisely why the government has ideas on "punishing" married Singaporeans for not having kids, its easier to give Singaporeans the big stick for not having kids, rather than find common ground where exists a pro-family work environment while minimising disruptions to companies, and to enshrine pro-family labour regulations into the Employment Act.
Atobe
11 Mar 04, 04:01

The Government will have to think clearly as to what their ultimate goals are to be.

During the 1960's - the Government want only a 2 Child Family, hence the 'Stop At TWO' slogan that led to the current crisis.

Then in 1980s - the Government wanted graduate women to marry and begin their genetic procreating of intelligent offsprings

During the 1990s - the Women were asked to rejoin the labor force, and to be active again - at the expense of close motherly child care and development.

Yet inspite of nearly twenty years of effort to get 'Qualified' Women to be more 'Productive in Pro-creation Activities', there is little that is being done to encourage the success and meeting of the objectives.

Child Care facilities are neglected, and under supported by the Government, except for those nurseries operated by PAP child care centres at HDB neighborhoods.

Foreign Maids were allowed to be employed, but at a ridiculous Foreign Worker's Levy of approximately $450 per worker, which at times will result in the levy paid to the Government being twice more than the salary paid to the Foreign Maid.

Tax deductions for Children do not reflect the real costs of bringing up a Child - from birth till they arrived at the statutory age of independence.

Contradictory policies that benefit single child births, but with the same benefits not being extended to births comprising of twins or triplets, or more.

Ultimately, the uncontrolled cost of living that affect every aspects of Life in Singapore remains a challenge to overcome, especially in the light of the present economic climate - with wage being reformed into an uncertain flexi-wage future, and reduction of the CPF that is the main program for financing home purchases.

With so much uncertainties for the near and long term period, and with the Government being at a loss as to their ability to 'create wealth and jobs' - can Singaporeans be expected to take the risks of finding the resources to look after a new born ?
chualcsg
11 Mar 04, 13:37

The Gov is "die wood" nowadays because there are still old MP arround.

Actually many problem can be solved (Babies, jobless, 5-day week etc) but the Gov do not look at the other angle
chualcsg
11 Mar 04, 13:44

For example, the Gov purpose 4/6 month maternity leave show that the Gov is ready "die wood".

Why the Gov cannot look at the other angle ?

If the Gov can, then many other problem can be solved easily
reyes
11 Mar 04, 15:26

we should be realistic.longer maternity leave dont solve our problem for falling birth rate. if we have 6 mthd maternity leave meaning ppl will give more baby? i dont think so.parenthood extend beyond the first 6 mths. when potential think of their children 20 years down the road, how many can he afford to sent them all to university? the cost of raising a kid?

i strongly believe, if we cant provide the best for our kids dont give so many baby, govt not gona take care for you and we have to expect that.

higher maternity gona reduce the employability of woman in the labour market esp.SME where labour cost is higher %. even govt willing foot the remaining mths of pay, employer still have to higher temp staff to fill in void. how does it convince us where we reduce our CPF contribution, flexi wage system, reduce company taxes to make us competitive and we talk about increase benefits for pregnant woman? dont make sense to me.

anyway, malay and indian dont have problem with birth rate. the problem of falling birth rate is mainly coming from CHINESE.

my propose solution. give angbao.
per baby : $20k.
maybe mke more sense
men_@_arms
12 Mar 04, 18:51

It is impossible to increase the birthrate because simply put. Singapore sucks as a good place to live, because of the stressful work/study/living environment. If you want procreation, you must achieve the right conditions to do so. Not everything is done with $.
Viper52
13 Mar 04, 16:12

A slew of articles today on the work environment, childcare facilities available, state incentives, labour laws and mindsets in Europe to try to reverse the trend of a shrinking population. Along with a report card on the sucesses and failures and some insight as to why some programs work, some don't.

Some very good food for thought from the Straits Times, for a change. Singaporeans, but more especially our leaders and employers, should take a long hard look at it and do some serious thinking.

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http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,239969,00.html?

CRISIS OVER CONTINENT'S FALLING BIRTH RATES

What mums in Europe really want

Job security, parental leave, subsidised childcare facilities, tax breaks, flexible work arrangements - these will make motherhood more attractive but there's only so much the state can do. The final decision on procreation still lies with the individuals. GRACE SUNG reports.

THE southern Italian village of Laviano is dying out.

Only four babies were born among its population of 1,850 last year. In 1970, there were 3,000 residents and 70 births.

The demographics are so dire that the mayor made a desperate offer a year ago - 10,000 euros (S$21,000) over six years to anyone who produces a baby.

'It's do or die. But we cannot stay impotent while our village disappears,' mayor Rocco Falivena told La Repubblica daily.

Laviano's story is not unique in Italy, whose 1.24 total fertility rate (TFR) is the lowest in Europe. The country also has the world's oldest population.

The government is trying to arrest the population decline by offering parents a 1,000-euro bonus if they have at least a second child by the end of this year.

To varying degrees, other countries in the region face similar demographic challenges. The average TFR in the European Union (EU) is 1.47, well below the 2.1 replacement rate. Non-EU states fare no better. The 10 incoming EU members have a 1.29 TFR average.

Experts have pointed to the dramatic consequences of a greying Europe. If the demographics stay the same, the size of the working population in today's EU will drop from 230 million to 190 million, to the detriment of the welfare system and the economy.

One way to tackle the ageing phenomenon is to encourage people to have more babies. The question is how?

Like Italy, other countries have thrown money at citizens in an attempt to reverse the trend. Two years ago, Austria (TFR 1.4) offered a 436-euro monthly payout for three years to people with new babies, if they earned less than 1,200 euros.

Combined with other allowances, the total monthly benefits reached 600 euros.

But birth rates have not risen. Experts point to various obstacles, like a lack of day-care facilities, keeping couples from having children.

Only 4 per cent of Austrian children under three benefit from state-financed day care. In Denmark (TFR 1.72), that figure is 64 per cent and in France (TFR 1.89), it is 20 per cent.

The amount of state money offered matters, of course.

Briton Jennie Vincent, 31, who has a 16-month-old daughter, said tax credits helped only a bit.

'We can get a few hundred pounds, but it's not even enough to cover nappies and food,' she said. 'It is just not cost-effective to get into full-time work. You'd end up paying most of what you make into childcare.'

Though surveys show most Italian women want at least two children, they too are unlikely to bite the 1,000-euro carrot. According to an official study, 38 per cent of 50,000 new mothers in Italy found it hard to reconcile family life with work, and 44 per cent cited working hours as a barrier to procreation.

Studies have shown that birth patterns are linked to job security. Italy, Spain and Greece, which have the lowest TFRs, had the highest youth unemployment rates in the EU in the late 1990s.

Their women's work participation rates are also low and activists say gender discrimination is to blame.

In Spain, twice as many women as men are jobless, though there are more female graduates. Poor state support, uncertainty over work and rejection of women's traditional role as housewife and childbearer are some reasons why almost half of Spain's women are childless.

Under such conditions, money is hardly a stimulus.

'Child benefits are not perceived as a real incentive for couples to have more children,' said Mr Aidan Punch of Ireland's Central Statistics Office. He is also president of the Council of Europe's committee on population.

'What's needed are more family-friendly policies: parental leave, work-sharing arrangements, greater labour market flexibility and availability of childcare facilities.'

It is the countries which have developed a coherent mix of policies facilitating partnering, childbearing and parenting choices which rank higher in the fertility table.

Take France for example. Generous welfare allocations, tax breaks and other perks for larger families, subsidised maternity and all-day childcare services all help make motherhood more attractive.

Women have 16 weeks of maternity leave with full pay, and up to 26 weeks for the third child onwards.

They can also take three years of parental leave without fear of losing their jobs.

Money does talk - if the amount is substantial. France spends 4.5 per cent of its GDP on families, more than any other European state. More than 41 billion euros go to 10 million families annually.

'Family policy advantages and incentives have played a major role in reversing the downward trend of the early 1990s,' said sociologist Anne Muxel of the French Centre for the Study of Political Life.

Cont'd below...
Viper52
13 Mar 04, 16:12

...Cont'd
The situation is as positive for parents in Scandinavia, where TFRs are above the EU average. Policies giving aid and helping parents balance home and work life have been in place for 20 to 30 years.

Generous take-home pay during maternity and paternity leave are guaranteed.

Additional leave, parental benefits, support for single providers, family tax credits and rights to paid days off to care for sick children are all common. Parents also have flexible work options in the child's early years.

Work is not incompatible with parenthood. Nordic nations have some of the highest percentages of working women (60-75 per cent), including mothers of young children.

The high female labour participation is possible, partly due to the existence of well-developed networks of subsidised childcare services.

Thanks to a considerable legal and financial support system, up to 34 per cent of French and Scandinavian parents go on to have three or even four children.

Gender equality in the workplace and the greater involvement of Scandinavian fathers in parenting also have positive effects on birth rates.

In Nordic countries, it is not uncommon to see fathers change nappies or take months off work to look after children.

In Sweden, 35.6 per cent of days off to care for children are taken by fathers.

In the southern low-fertility countries, however, a change of mentality has not accompanied women's move into the workplace.

The burden of housework and childraising still generally falls on the mother.

According to a Financial Times report, the average Italian man spends 1hr 48min a day on childcare and other unpaid work - compared to 6hr and 24min for a woman in full-time paid work.

Demographic and health experts at the European Population Forum in January concluded: 'Fertility levels remain relatively high when there are high levels of gender equality in the economy, family and society and where there is a tolerance for diversity in family structures and partnering arrangements.'

Liberal attitudes towards single parenthood, cohabitation, divorce and childbearing, particularly when supported by policies conferring equal benefits and rights on people in new family structures, have contributed to northern Europe's higher birth rates.

So some government policies do work, and they are likely to stay.

French Family Minister Christian Jacob wants to encourage an even higher birth rate with state aid.

'The more children that are born, the better it is for our pension system and economy,' he said recently.

The consequences of the birth dearth are so drastic that even countries which have long resisted pro-parenthood talk have now stepped up a gear.

Last year, Britain increased paid maternity leave from eight to 26 weeks, gave fathers two weeks of paid leave and put more money into increasing the number of childcare places.

Germany is considering making its tax and welfare systems more family-friendly, and building more all-day schools and daycare centres.

But experts think more needs to be done.

Dr Herwig Birg, director of the Institute for Population Research and Social Policy at Bielefeld University in Germany, said the government had not wised up to the impact of ageing. Many policies had short-term effects, he said, adding: 'Above all, the idea that without children nothing works needs to be more popular.'

But how far can governments influence fertility patterns?

Dr Elke Hochmuth, a 40-year-old education consultant, is childless - as are almost one-third of German women her age.

'I studied for 10 years in university. There was just never a good time (for children). There were also financial issues. I couldn't take the time off and still travel,' she said.

'Now I'm 40, and biologically it's a little late. I'm not sorry about that now, but who knows how I'll feel in 10 years?'

Other than lifestyle choices, higher education, women's emancipation, delayed marriage, later first-births, desire for work and financial security have all contributed to falling fertility rates in the industrialised world.

Experts agree the state can help would-be parents to juggle work and family but it cannot ultimately determine procreation decisions.

Still, sitting idly by is not an option.

In Laviano, seven babies have been born since the 10,000-euro offer was made. And there are more pregnant women in town.

'It seems to be working,' said a municipal spokesman.

In Rome, Ms Linda Salvati, 23, said she wants four children but not just now. She said she is not ready for marriage and children - and dismissed state aid as 'pitiful'.

The government can only hope that people like her never feel compelled to shelve their baby dreams for good.

With contributions from Tamara Thiessen in Paris, Brian Swint in Berlin and Neo Hui Min in London
Viper52
13 Mar 04, 16:31

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,239986,00.html?

Encouraging motherhood

All countries in western Europe provide cash benefits, tax breaks and other incentives to defray the cost of bringing up children. Parents are also allowed various kinds of leave with great flexibility in how they are structured

MATERNITY/PATERNITY LEAVE

- Paid maternity leave is a given in western European countries. Sometimes, no distinction is made between birth and adoption.
- In most countries, fathers get paid leave too.
- The amount given ranges from 100 per cent of pay to a daily rate. Sometimes, a ceiling rate is imposed.
- Time off varies, starting at three months. Nordic nations are the most generous. Sweden allows parents 13 months off per child, at 80 per cent pay, and another three months at a nominal rate. Denmark gives full pay for 12 months.
- Often, a minimum period is reserved for the mother or father, and parents can share the rest of the leave.
- Leave can at times be spread out. In Sweden and Denmark, it can be consumed any time before the child is eight years old.
- Some Europeans get more paid leave for multiple births or medical complications.
- In France, mothers get 16 weeks' maternity leave for the first and second child, 26 for subsequent offspring, 34 for twins and 46 for multiple births.

ADDITIONAL LEAVE

- About half of the European Union countries allow parents unpaid leave, beyond maternity and paternity leave, to care for their children.
- In the remaining countries, some benefits are also given to parents who have to take care of children.
- The extra time off ranges from three to 36 months.
- Some countries allow people to consume such leave at intervals, until the child is eight.

BIRTH BENEFITS

- Some countries give a flat-rate birth grant.
- Many offer free maternity services and birth or child-related medical care.
- Parental leave is usually paid on condition that parents have worked a minimum period before birth. But several countries give aid to unemployed parents. In Norway, a lump sum of about 33,200 kroner (S$8,150) was offered last year.

CHILD/CHILDCARE SUPPORT

- Monthly stipends for childcare or access to subsidised facilities are available in some places, particularly in northern Europe.
- 76 per cent of Swedish kids aged one to six years go to state-run centres and parents pay one-fifth the cost.
- Some countries give parents money to care for ill or disabled children.
- Monthly grants of 100 to 200 euros per child are common. In Germany, this is about 150 euros per child up till the age of 18.
- Other financial benefits such as tax breaks, education grant, allowance for single and poor parents, housing aid and unemployment aid are common.

WORKING ARRANGEMENTS

- Flexible working arrangements are getting more common, though not fully utilised. Some examples:
- Parents in Norway, Denmark and Sweden are allowed to consume their Cannot distribute vertically parental leave by working part-time over several years.
- British parents can ask for flexible hours if their child is aged below six, or take 13 weeks' unpaid leave if the child is under five.
- Parents in some countries get paid days off to look after sick or disabled children. In Portugal, it's 30 days per child a year, at 65 per cent pay.

Sources: European Commission, Council of Europe, Eurostat, news reports
Viper52
13 Mar 04, 16:35

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,239971,00.html?

France: Bundle of joy comes with state aid

PARIS - Mrs Nicole De Froberville has been on leave for the past six years.

Thanks to France's family-oriented laws and generous child-related benefits offered by the state, she can not only stay home in the city of Tours with her four children, she is also guaranteed her job back if she wants it.

Like many French women, she just loves having children - but even more so with the support of the state.

From her third child onwards, she got 26 weeks of fully paid maternity leave, an extension of the 16 weeks given to women expecting their first and second children.

On top of that, she has the right to take three years of unpaid 'parental leave' per child and still return to her job.

Parental leave and the option of part-time work were introduced in 1987.

About 40 per cent of the people (85 per cent of them women) make use of this privilege.

For the French government, babies mean future regeneration and revenue.

So the state encourages people to have babies - as many as possible. The amount of aid per child increases from the third child onwards.

The De Frobervilles, whose children range from 18 months to eight years old, get about 1,000 euros (S$2,100) in various types of child-related state aid a month.

In addition, Mr Benoit De Froberville does not pay income tax and gets benefits which cover about half of the rent and 40 per cent of his transport costs.

'Of course, we don't have children to make money,' the banker jokes, 'but the deal is pretty good.'

Among the other child-related benefits he and his wife enjoy: child and family support, parental education aid, payouts for the start of the school year, housing assistance and deals on loans, tax cuts and childcare payments.

More than 45.7 billion euros are handed out to families every year.

Mrs De Froberville believes the 35-hour work week has helped couples even more, allowing the working parent more leisure time with the children.

'It's totally different to a father who only sees his kids in the evening or at the weekends when all he wants to do is rest,' she said. -- Tamara Thiessen
Viper52
13 Mar 04, 16:37

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,239972,00.html?

Sweden: Dads get time off to look after baby

MR PETER Norberg, 33, made a bit of history when his first child was born.

'When I told my company I wanted to take seven months off to take care of my son, they said it was a record for fathers,' said the Swede who works for insurance company Skandia in the city of Sundsvall.

Swedish parents get 13 months of leave per child, paid at 80 per cent of wages at a maximum of 24,500 kroners (S$5,600) per month, and three additional months with a nominal sum.

The leave - which can be consumed any time before the child turns eight - can be shared equally between a couple, except for two non-transferable months reserved for each parent. On average, fathers take no more than 15.5 per cent of the leave.

Mr Norberg, however, took a total of seven 'Papa months' after his son Joel was born in 2000.

He requested paternity leave again last year when his daughter Emelie was born.

With a combination of part-time work and five months of being a full- time dad from next month on, he is splitting the 450-day entitlement down the middle with his wife Viveca.

'It's a good time for the father to get to know his children. It's good for me and good for the children,' he said.

While he is losing out in pay increases, he felt it was hardly a sacrifice, compared to bonding with his children at the important early stages of their lives.

'Children are only one to two years old for a short time. It will never come back,' he said.

He is lucky his employer does not object to him taking extended time off. In fact, it gives him 10 per cent of his wages while he stays home though under the law, companies are not obliged to pay for parental leave.

Experts say the greater dedication of fathers in Scandinavia to parenting contributes to their higher fertility rates.

The government wants more involved fathers like Mr Norberg and is considering raising the mandated period of paternity leave.

But the move is unpopular, with complaints of social engineering.

Mr Norberg said: 'It's up to the couple to decide, but maybe it would be good to have a law saying fathers have to be home.

'I think it's also the father's responsibility to participate in childraising.' -- Grace Sung
Viper52
13 Mar 04, 16:40

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,239973,00.html?

Laws may not change employers' mindset

EVEN if the state keeps legislating, the reality for parents can be sobering.

Italian Linda Salvati has a friend who has been jobless since being forced to quit after she was denied extended leave when she got pregnant. 'Companies will not wait for you,' she said, voicing a common concern

Britain last year started allowing working parents with children under six, or with disabled kids under 18, to ask for flexible working hours.

Seven out of 10 small firms surveyed by employment law firm Peninsula said the move could damage their business.

Ms Ruth Lea, head of policy at the Institute of Directors which represents more than 55,000 business leaders, said: 'Women's employment rights, principally maternity rights, damage their employability. The more those rights are increased, the worse this is likely to get.'

Germany's Family Ministry wants this to change. It has started a campaign - involving firms like Bertelsmann and DaimlerChrysler - to encourage businesses to be family-friendly. 'Women shouldn't get funny looks for taking a day off because their child is sick,' said ministry official Susanne Amann.

But getting employers to change their mindset could be an uphill task. According to a recent survey by the IW economic research group, only 46.6 per cent of German companies said that being family-friendly was important.

But interestingly, 64 per cent thought family-friendly policies would lower costs. Three-quarters said their reasons for having such policies were to keep employees satisfied and attract top workers.
Atobe
14 Mar 04, 08:50

Somehow in all this debate, the basic 'Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs' seems to have been overlooked.

In the attempt to re-ignite the steps to resolve a declining birth rate, perhaps a step back to basics is now appropriate.