Should we give the oppositions a chance?
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I was thinking maybe if we give the opposition party a chance, just 1 term in the office to see how they improve Singapore, we can get a view of the bigger picture.
Wat's the worst thing that could happen to us if the opposition screwed up? We can always return to PAP the next term.
I think most of us Singaporeans including myself cannot see the whole picture that PAP is painting, we need to get out of the picture to view it as a whole. And the best way to do it is to let the opposition take over for a term so we can gauge whether PAP is really doing a great job. -
Singaporeans owe it to themselves to get an Opposition into Parliament - only for the simplest reason of giving ourselves an HONEST and STRONG VOICE in Parliament.
It is not merely just one or two members from the Opposition being elected into Parliament, but to aim for an Opposition Party taking at least FORTY-NINE PERCENT of the seat in a 82 seat Parliament.
With the view of aiming high, and hitting low, even with an Opposition Party of having ten to twenty seats in Parliament, there will be sufficient numbers to give moral support to ALL HONEST VIEWS concerning issues affecting Singaporeans.
The PRESENT situation in Parliament is that MPs from the Ruling Party has ALWAYS to AGREE to the VIEWS of the Political Party.
When voting on legislations in parliamentary proceedings, the MPs from the Ruling Party must always vote in the interests of the Ruling Party, and will NOT BE ALLOWED to vote for the interest of Singaporeans (note the difference in 'the interests of Singapore'). -
we shudnt haf the oppositions run the country jus for the sake of it. anyway this is against the ideal of democracy. running a nation canot be used as an experiment.Originally posted by edwinSSM:I was thinking maybe if we give the opposition party a chance, just 1 term in the office to see how they improve Singapore, we can get a view of the bigger picture.
Wat's the worst thing that could happen to us if the opposition screwed up? We can always return to PAP the next term.
I think most of us Singaporeans including myself cannot see the whole picture that PAP is painting, we need to get out of the picture to view it as a whole. And the best way to do it is to let the opposition take over for a term so we can gauge whether PAP is really doing a great job. -
the problem is we dun have good opposition now...if u have some one like young LKY... haha u see who wont vote for opposition lor..
p.s mi not a LKY fan ok...dun like his style too but cannot deny he it good... -
i don't mind but just not this oposition
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What opposition?
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What do you think SM LKY was doing when he first entered politics in Singapore during the 1950's ?Originally posted by wuming78:we shudnt haf the oppositions run the country jus for the sake of it. anyway this is against the ideal of democracy. running a nation canot be used as an experiment.
Was he such an expert in Government already when he entered Politics as a young Lawyer ?
Was he not also experimenting with the LIVES of Singaporeans ?
Many past experiments have gone wrong in Singapore - the most glaring being the failed experiments with 'Independence through Malaysia' and the 'Stop at TWO' campaign.
Both of these failed as a result of unfettered and arrogant experimentation of HIS Thinking without any effective opposition; and through HIS arrogant attitude in sweeping pass all opposition to HIS Views.
What is the beef about experimentation, when governing Singapore is but continuous experimentation and fine tuning of policies to ensure that the ride into the future is of some degree of calculated experimental risks ?
Even the present changes with Education Policy - dropping the Second Language as an entry requirement into tertiary institutions, and the liberal access to University Education - is a CONTINUOUS EXPERIMENTATION with the LIVES OF OUR YOUNGER SINGAPOREANS.
If you believe that Governing Singapore CANNOT be based on EXPERIMENTATION, then you have fallen for the ULTIMATE PROPAGANDA of perpetuating the necessity of the PAP Rule in Singapore.
Are we so averse to risks that we will not take a chance with dedicated Singaporeans, who are prepared to take the punishments from the Ruling Party, to be an alternative voice for Singaporeans ?
Give those a CHANCE, all who PUBLICLY dare to be in the Opposition Parties.
Judge them on their credentials, and be as forgiving for their audacious and ill thought behavior, as the Ruling Party has been prepared to forgive those 'virgins' that they picked and who made similar errors of arrogance in office. -
err.. i definitely support wat u say - meaning to say to support worthy opposition members, and parties for that matter.Originally posted by Atobe:Many past experiments have gone wrong in Singapore - the most glaring being the failed experiments with 'Independence through Malaysia' and the 'Stop at TWO' campaign.
If you believe that Governing Singapore CANNOT be based on EXPERIMENTATION, then you have fallen for the ULTIMATE PROPAGANDA of perpetuating the necessity of the PAP Rule in Singapore.
Are we so averse to risks that we will not take a chance with dedicated Singaporeans, who are prepared to take the punishments from the Ruling Party, to be an alternative voice for Singaporeans ?
Give those a CHANCE, all who PUBLICLY dare to be in the Opposition Parties.
Judge them on their credentials, and be as forgiving for their audacious and ill thought behavior, as the Ruling Party has been prepared to forgive those 'virgins' that they picked and who made similar errors of arrogance in office.
but they must be able to enter office through a democractic process, and not installed for the sake of experimentation, as has been proposed here, unless i misunderstood the post.
so imagine u c on the newspaper headlines the next day:
"government shall be handed over to the opposition party for a term, to see if they can rule better than PAP"
is tt truly wat we wan? -
What will your reaction be if in the next morning the headline screamed in bold prints - "Passing of SM LKY" ?Originally posted by wuming78:err.. i definitely support wat u say - meaning to say to support worthy opposition members, and parties for that matter.
but they must be able to enter office through a democractic process, and not installed for the sake of experimentation, as has been proposed here, unless i misunderstood the post.
so imagine u c on the newspaper headlines the next day:
"government shall be handed over to the opposition party for a term, to see if they can rule better than PAP"
is tt truly wat we wan?
Are you going to panic ?
Will Singapore stop to function ?
You have been weaned off 'Mother's Milk' and now it is time for Singaporeans to think of an ALTERNATIVE and be weaned off the PAP's 'milk' too.
Singapore is what it is today, due to the efforts of Singaporeans putting their minds together and working with the Government of THE DAY.
Surely, if the majority of Singaporeans are prepared to vote in a DIFFERENT POLITICAL PARTY, it will signal the effort and co-operation that will be needed to SUPPORT and ENSURE the success of the NEW Government. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
well. tt day is surely going to come. no i wont panic. and yes singapore will continue to function. if not then he has not been a good leader - cos one will make sure the organisation will function perfectly well even when he/she is gone.
What will your reaction be if in the next morning the headline screamed in bold prints - "[b]Passing of SM LKY" ?
Are you going to panic ?
Will Singapore stop to function ?
You have been weaned off 'Mother's Milk' and now it is time for Singaporeans to think of an ALTERNATIVE and be weaned off the PAP's 'milk' too.
Singapore is what it is today, due to the efforts of Singaporeans putting their minds together and working with the Government of THE DAY.
Surely, if the majority of Singaporeans are prepared to vote in a DIFFERENT POLITICAL PARTY, it will signal the effort and co-operation that will be needed to SUPPORT and ENSURE the success of the NEW Government.
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i think there is a misunderstanding somewhere..
i agree tt votes should go to those who deserve them, rather than to ensure that the status quo is maintained - being risk averse tt is.
so if one dae, the opposition party has really arrived, then yes, singaporeans should vote for them. they may or may not win enuff votes to become the government, but tts besides the point.
but i dun think singaporeans shud vote for them, for the sake of doing it. meaning to say if the opposition is lousy, we still vote for them jus so to bring them into power.
and i dun think we shud pass the power to the opposition party jus like tt, to see how they wil do.
so bottomline is: vote for whoever is good. if its the opposition, please vote for them, rather than fear the unknown. and if they garner enuff votes to be installed, den so be it.
tt is my position. -
I will only vote for the opposition if they are worthy enough to be voted for. I wun just vote for the sake of "overthrowing" the PAP. Anyway, i feel that many of the oppositions lack the proper vision. But of course, thats my personal oppinion.
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That is a very generous and honest remark from you in support for an Opposition to be formed.Originally posted by wuming78:well. tt day is surely going to come. no i wont panic. and yes singapore will continue to function. if not then he has not been a good leader - cos one will make sure the organisation will function perfectly well even when he/she is gone.
i think there is a misunderstanding somewhere..
i agree tt votes should go to those who deserve them, rather than to ensure that the status quo is maintained - being risk averse tt is.
so if one dae, the opposition party has really arrived, then yes, singaporeans should vote for them. they may or may not win enuff votes to become the government, but tts besides the point.
but i dun think singaporeans shud vote for them, for the sake of doing it. meaning to say if the opposition is lousy, we still vote for them jus so to bring them into power.
and i dun think we shud pass the power to the opposition party jus like tt, to see how they wil do.
so bottomline is: vote for whoever is good. if its the opposition, please vote for them, rather than fear the unknown. and if they garner enuff votes to be installed, den so be it.
tt is my position.
On the part of an Opposition being 'LOUSY' - we will need to clarify this point as to what will be included into 'LOUSY'.
What is the 'measure' or 'criteria' that should be used in measuring each 'LOUSY' action from the Opposition ?
Should we allow ONE or MORE 'insignificant' lousy actions to make Singaporeans loose sight of the MAIN Objective of having an HONEST VOICE for Singaporeans in Parliament ?
If Singapore and Singaporeans - including the PAP Members of Parliament - can overlooked some of the PAST 'LOUSY' policies that have affected Singaporeans, why are we less forgiving to the present lot of Opposition Personalities - who have absorbed and tolerated the slime and hardship that has been thrown at them ?
Why are Singaporeans so easily prepared to accept the standards that the Ruling Party has imposed on the Opposition Parties, and yet will not use the same yardstick to measure the mistakes that the Ruling Party has made ?
It is amazing that Singaporeans are prepared to remain impotent and accept the mistakes of the Ruling Party, and yet will grind the Opposition Parties to dust, and accept the propaganda from the Ruling Party concerning the Opposition Parties and the Personalities.
Singaporeans and Singapore need a Voice with the moral authority to stop the government from actions that negatively affect Singapore and Singaporeans. -
Wuming78, of course votes should be given to the worthy opposition, I don't think any of the more rational members of the forum would suggest otherwise. But as Atobe has asked, do most Singaporeans judge the gaffes and achievements of the opposition with the same yardstick? For that matter, do you?
CenturionMBT, allow me to ask you one question: How did you arrive at the conclusion that the opposition "lack the proper vision"? Did you get that from attending opposition rallies at election time? Reading their Literature? Speaking with them personally? Constantly visiting their websites? Engage them in debates on the issues?
Or do you get your views about them from the local media, the government run newpapers? Or the closely monitored TV news? -
Yup, just goes to show the world is a matrix.Originally posted by Viper52:Wuming78, of course votes should be given to the worthy opposition, I don't think any of the more rational members of the forum would suggest otherwise. But as Atobe has asked, do most Singaporeans judge the gaffes and achievements of the opposition with the same yardstick? For that matter, do you?
CenturionMBT, allow me to ask you one question: How did you arrive at the conclusion that the opposition "lack the proper vision"? Did you get that from attending opposition rallies at election time? Reading their Literature? Speaking with them personally? Constantly visiting their websites? Engage them in debates on the issues?
Or do you get your views about from the local media, the government run newpapers? Or the closely monitored TV news?
The news may have reported CSj has done this and this, JBJ kena lawsuits, Tang Liang Hong says this and that
Did anyone check it out? It maybe just bluff on the newspaper all along.
Unlike science theories like 'there are billions of stars in the universe", political scene affects us directly. Whom we choose to be leaders, we have to tahan their directives and policies, screw up or not. -
yup yup.. i understand wat both of u mean. tts y i espouse giving votes to those who r worthy, rather than to maintain the status quo and the perceived stability. for myself? i haven had the chance to exercise my voting power yet. and so far, wat we haf seen of the performances of the MPs r wat we r given in the media. anyways in my ward, i haven seen much of either sides visibly. well. mabbe one dae some worthy opposition member wil come along.Originally posted by Viper52:Wuming78, of course votes should be given to the worthy opposition, I don't think any of the more rational members of the forum would suggest otherwise. But as Atobe has asked, do most Singaporeans judge the gaffes and achievements of the opposition with the same yardstick? For that matter, do you?
CenturionMBT, allow me to ask you one question: How did you arrive at the conclusion that the opposition "lack the proper vision"? Did you get that from attending opposition rallies at election time? Reading their Literature? Speaking with them personally? Constantly visiting their websites? Engage them in debates on the issues?
Or do you get your views about them from the local media, the government run newpapers? Or the closely monitored TV news? -
Wuming, there was a time where I got my news from the filtered sources as well, and I had similarly dismissed the opposition as a bunch of "no-hoper losers" that were not worth the air they breathe to keep them alive. It was only when I was overseas, and the only way to keep in touch with home was through the various news sources on the Internet, which I was then able to be exposed to a side of the story hitherto unseen by most Singaporeans reading officially sanctioned news and watching approved TV.Originally posted by wuming78:yup yup.. i understand wat both of u mean. tts y i espouse giving votes to those who r worthy, rather than to maintain the status quo and the perceived stability. for myself? i haven had the chance to exercise my voting power yet. and so far, wat we haf seen of the performances of the MPs r wat we r given in the media. anyways in my ward, i haven seen much of either sides visibly. well. mabbe one dae some worthy opposition member wil come along.
I have personally been eligible to vote for 2 elections yet I have never voted because my home (a former opposition stronghold) has been "incorporated" into a GRC, as well as the fact that I was overseas, and probably not considered "reliable" enough to vote.
But...I shouldn't worry too much about it
. After all, my situation is simlar to a whopping 60-70% of the eligible voting population in Singapore in GE 2001. Hence, as I've questioned before, can the government truly claim to represent Singaporeans?
As for finding out if and voting for opposition that are truly worthy, we can only do that by interacting with them on a personal level, not through the skewed lenses of our officially-filtered media. -
yes, and pls be rest assured tt there r ppl out there who do not take things told to them at face value too.Originally posted by Viper52:Wuming, there was a time where I got my news from the filtered sources as well, and I had similarly dismissed the opposition as a bunch of "no-hoper losers" that were not worth the air they breathe to keep them alive. It was only when I was overseas, and the only way to keep in touch with home was through the various news sources on the Internet, which I was then able to be exposed to a side of the story hitherto unseen by most Singaporeans reading officially sanctioned news and watching approved TV.
I have personally been eligible to vote for 2 elections yet I have never voted because my home (a former opposition stronghold) has been "incorporated" into a GRC, as well as the fact that I was overseas, and probably not considered "reliable" enough to vote.
But...I shouldn't worry too much about it . After all, my situation is simlar to a whopping 60-70% of the eligible voting population in Singapore in GE 2001. Hence, as I've questioned before, can the government truly claim to represent Singaporeans?
As for finding out if and voting for opposition that are truly worthy, we can only do that by interacting with them on a personal level, not through the skewed lenses of our officially-filtered media.
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I certainly hope so, although in discussions on this topic with people I know, that number is sadly lacking.Originally posted by wuming78:yes, and pls be rest assured tt there r ppl out there who do not take things told to them at face value too.
It doesn't help with the way the draconian nature of media regulation is like in Singapore. -
Originally posted by Viper52:I certainly hope so, although in discussions on this topic with people I know, that number is sadly lacking.
It doesn't help with the way the draconian nature of media regulation is like in Singapore.
ppl in this forum are mostly haf similar profiles. -
No I mean the people I know and talk to out of this forumOriginally posted by wuming78: ppl in this forum are mostly haf similar profiles. -
oh ..ok..Originally posted by Viper52:No I mean the people I know and talk to out of this forum -
Originally posted by wuming78:
It is not my habit to split hairs, but in this instance - for the interest of a cause to help the Opposition 'under-dogs' it is important to know how you intend to qualify the 'worthiness' of the Opposition.
yup yup.. i understand wat both of u mean. tts y i espouse giving votes to those who r worthy, rather than to maintain the status quo and the perceived stability. for myself? i haven had the chance to exercise my voting power yet. and so far, wat we haf seen of the performances of the MPs r wat we r given in the media. anyways in my ward, i haven seen much of either sides visibly. well. mabbe one dae some worthy opposition member wil come along.
How will you judge if the Opposition is worthy of your vote ?
Especially when the environment is imperfect for you to gain any access of INDEPENDENT information and assessment of the candidates being put up by the Opposition. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
tts for each of us to determine. there is no like this list of criteria for them to meet b4 they can be considered worthy. and this is determined differently for different persons.
It is not my habit to split hairs, but in this instance - for the interest of a cause to help the Opposition 'under-dogs' it is important to know how you intend to qualify the '[b]worthiness' of the Opposition.
How will you judge if the Opposition is worthy of your vote ?
Especially when the environment is imperfect for you to gain any access of INDEPENDENT information and assessment of the candidates being put up by the Opposition.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
when LKY dies , his offsprings would get kicked out?
What will your reaction be if in the next morning the headline screamed in bold prints - "[b]Passing of SM LKY" ?
Are you going to panic ?
Will Singapore stop to function ?
You have been weaned off 'Mother's Milk' and now it is time for Singaporeans to think of an ALTERNATIVE and be weaned off the PAP's 'milk' too.
Singapore is what it is today, due to the efforts of Singaporeans putting their minds together and working with the Government of THE DAY.
Surely, if the majority of Singaporeans are prepared to vote in a DIFFERENT POLITICAL PARTY, it will signal the effort and co-operation that will be needed to SUPPORT and ENSURE the success of the NEW Government.
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Just have some patience, the day for the oppostion to rule singapore may not be too far away! Its time now for the oppostion leaders here to join forces and plan for the coming election.