Is Medical & Health Care too Expesnive in Singapore?
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Here's a thought: if medical and healthcare isn't costly in SIngapore, why do people choose to commit suicide when they find they have terminal illness? I refer to the the recent sad case of one mother who jumped with her two young children.
I heard that even if you have a disease like cancer, use of your Medisave is still limited!
Why does our government prevent us from using our money to save our life? -
i've never thought about how medi save works,
all i thought was it lowers the price a little ?? -
i think its damn expensive and govt is out to cheat our $$$. my friend's uncle when to general hospital, stay for 1 week, bill is $6000. not because of any big operation or treatment, but because got some so called specialist one day come and see him many times, each time ask some stupid questions then charge $100. the specialist are NUS doc trainees lah, even their skills are doubtful. then the uncle wanna transfer to other therapy centre, the hospital say they will settle, then let the uncle stay for a more days, then realise the hospital did not do anything at all. so the bills are piling and my friend wanna bring her uncle out the doc even scold my friend saying my friend did not give her uncle a chance to recover. but keeping the unlce in hospital forever, with the hospital doing nothing and the bills kept piling, its obviously cheating our $$$$ !!!
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ShutterBug, i do not know for certain if you are right when you mentioned that "---recent sad case of one mother who jumped with her two young children.---" is solely due to the high cost of medical expenses in Singapore? But, what I do know is that the medical expenses are extremely high due when compared with countries like Thailand and Malaysia and the reason why many Singaporeans are heading to those countries for treatment.
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Before we rubbish our medical expenses as exhorbitant, let us take a a peek at how other nations administer their medical practices.
For example, in France, the taxes are extremely high at ard 45% in terms of overall income compared to ours. However for the french, that takes care of most education bills and all medical check-ups, including specialists treatment (yes they dun pay a cent). This practice is such that some among the french abuse it to an extent that has caused growing concern within the french parliment, with calls from the leftist conservatives to review the current situation with a suggestion to increase taxes to cover the added burden brought on by these irresponsible 'malingerers'.
Over here, our gahmen introduced medisave to help our pre-dominantly aging population cope with future medical expenses. By creating a special account under the CPF scheme, they hoped that a portion of our monthly CPF would be sufficient to allow partial or full payment of any hospital treatments incurred. Obviously, this cannot cover the full cost of major operations such as chemotherapy or magnetic resonance scans needed for cancer treatment, if partially at all.
The consideration here might be to moderately increase the percentage contribution in our CPF special accounts, with an view at increasing the distribution in our medisave. The bad news is, only those who work and earn a monthly income are entitled to this benefit and that cuts off the jobless community completely.
Our medical bills here, while comparatively expensive in our eyes, are relatively cheaper compared to other established countries like germany and US. This coupled with our graft-free reputation and our competent hospital practices makes Singapore a medical destination for many ppl in the region seeking professional advice and treatment. One major reason why the iranian conjoined twins came here for their op was due to the relatively low cost of the operation. Since then, many others have visited our shores for medical assistance.
If that is not enough, then we should also consider the fact that hospitals have reduced the prices of various outpatient treatments and consultations last year to aid Singaporeans with the rising cost of living standards.
If we were to adopt a method similar to the french, will our ppl agree to the huge increase in income taxes that will curtail it? Will our ppl use the previlage that comes with this practice honestly and not try to abuse it as some within the french population have?
Let's face it, no system is full-proof. No method can cater to all the needs of a nation. Some will undoubtedly be left in the cold. At the moment, medisave is as good as it gets. -
This reminds me.
I thought I remember hearing something about some Medishield review thing from the news during the week when MOH was debating about its budget.
Anyone knows when the review thing is going to be released? -
i have a feeling that some gahmen ppl are spying this forums. in my opinion, ppl like billybong need to be careful of. the way he compare with country like france to such detail really fighten me.
frankly as a citizen of singapore i only know we have the right to demand lower medical cost here. why we need to compare medical cost to france? dispite their taxes being higher, their pay are also relatively higher. gahmen ask us to lower our wages to stay competitive with neighbouring country but on the other hand when come to living expenses we are comparing to developed country like France? funny isnt it? what kind of comparison is it?
i agree with shutterbug. when i firstly hear the mother with 2 children jump to their death after mother got cancer. reason for suicuide do not want to burden family. i can only think of she feel she cant afford medical treatment. as most coffeeshop uncle often say ' can die but cannot sick in singapore'. -
I have said in the past post before... the amount Gov spend on subsidising health will be ultimately born by it citizen. If they give a lot of subsidising for health, they have to take that money from somewhere...
When a mother know she got cancer, she jumps down with her daughter. If you ask me, the main reason is because she suffered depression when she knows she got cancer. Otherwise why bring her daughters along ? Do the daughter have cancer ? -
i care who right who wrong lah... i just know that.. my dad everyday here pain there pain, but dun dare to see doc...coz GP wont help much and specialist he got no money.. sighz....anyone want to make an donation??
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going by what you said , i'm sure we'll abuse the system, just look at how we behaved in nsOriginally posted by BillyBong:Before we rubbish our medical expenses as exhorbitant, let us take a a peek at how other nations administer their medical practices.
For example, in France, the taxes are extremely high at ard 45% in terms of overall income compared to ours. However for the french, that takes care of most education bills and all medical check-ups, including specialists treatment (yes they dun pay a cent). This practice is such that some among the french abuse it to an extent that has caused growing concern within the french parliment, with calls from the leftist conservatives to review the current situation with a suggestion to increase taxes to cover the added burden brought on by these irresponsible 'malingerers'.
Over here, our gahmen introduced medisave to help our pre-dominantly aging population cope with future medical expenses. By creating a special account under the CPF scheme, they hoped that a portion of our monthly CPF would be sufficient to allow partial or full payment of any hospital treatments incurred. Obviously, this cannot cover the full cost of major operations such as chemotherapy or magnetic resonance scans needed for cancer treatment, if partially at all.
The consideration here might be to moderately increase the percentage contribution in our CPF special accounts, with an view at increasing the distribution in our medisave. The bad news is, only those who work and earn a monthly income are entitled to this benefit and that cuts off the jobless community completely.
Our medical bills here, while comparatively expensive in our eyes, are relatively cheaper compared to other established countries like germany and US. This coupled with our graft-free reputation and our competent hospital practices makes Singapore a medical destination for many ppl in the region seeking professional advice and treatment. One major reason why the iranian conjoined twins came here for their op was due to the relatively low cost of the operation. Since then, many others have visited our shores for medical assistance.
If that is not enough, then we should also consider the fact that hospitals have reduced the prices of various outpatient treatments and consultations last year to aid Singaporeans with the rising cost of living standards.
If we were to adopt a method similar to the french, will our ppl agree to the huge increase in income taxes that will curtail it? Will our ppl use the previlage that comes with this practice honestly and not try to abuse it as some within the french population have?
Let's face it, no system is full-proof. No method can cater to all the needs of a nation. Some will undoubtedly be left in the cold. At the moment, medisave is as good as it gets. -
the woman that committed suicide is thai. she came here so there wouldn't be anyone she knew that could stop her.
for someone suffereing from depression, she sure had a very well thought out plan. -
There are simple explanations to your response.Originally posted by reyes:i have a feeling that some gahmen ppl are spying this forums. in my opinion, ppl like billybong need to be careful of. the way he compare with country like france to such detail really fighten me.
frankly as a citizen of singapore i only know we have the right to demand lower medical cost here. why we need to compare medical cost to france? dispite their taxes being higher, their pay are also relatively higher. gahmen ask us to lower our wages to stay competitive with neighbouring country but on the other hand when come to living expenses we are comparing to developed country like France? funny isnt it? what kind of comparison is it?
i agree with shutterbug. when i firstly hear the mother with 2 children jump to their death after mother got cancer. reason for suicuide do not want to burden family. i can only think of she feel she cant afford medical treatment. as most coffeeshop uncle often say ' can die but cannot sick in singapore'.
For example, why use france as a comparison? Simple. We are both developed countries who place great emphasis in our medical system and hence the cost of such bills on our citizens. If we compare ourselves to a regional country say...Thailand, how is that in any way a fair gauge? None of the asian countries even come close to us in terms of professionalism and medical trust.
Contrary to some ppl's belief, the general working french does not take home a significantly higher pay compared to his singaporean counterpart. In fact, a large number of them live off their govt's unemployment and re-training benefits. In fact, i had the honour of working with some french engineers recently. Their pay is relatively equal to ours in terms of standard of living and daily expenses.
Our dollar was given a deliberate devaluation some time back to help our exports and that has in some way made us believe that the cost of living has deceptively risen. The truth is, we were simply given less rebates (no more dangling carrots and reduced CPF contributions from our employers) and an effected wage variable component (MVC) that has trimmed our disposable income.
So it's natural that even after hospitals reduce their fees, it does not appear to have remedied the situation due to decreases in our shrinking piggys.
One can only tighten up his personal allowances, concentrate on his own needs rather than wants and ride the storm out.
Everyone's affected, not just the select few. Dun make the mistake of thinking those 'poor' people are the only agrieved parties here. -
If our government if really helping us, then why can't a retired old woman, be allowed to access her CPF to pay for her medication for her highblood pressure and diabetes condition? By the time she reaches 62 her condition will have worsen. And then what good is a monthly pay out of $300 for??
Where is, the LOGIC???
As far as I can see, the government is only interested in looking after their own interests and bottom line. Not anything else.
Period. -
There are simple explanations to your response.
For example, why use france as a comparison? Simple. We are both developed countries who place great emphasis in our medical system and hence the cost of such bills on our citizens. If we compare ourselves to a regional country say...Thailand, how is that in any way a fair gauge? None of the asian countries even come close to us in terms of professionalism and medical trust.
Contrary to some ppl's belief, the general working french does not take home a significantly higher pay compared to his singaporean counterpart. In fact, a large number of them live off their govt's unemployment and re-training benefits. In fact, i had the honour of working with some french engineers recently. Their pay is relatively equal to ours in terms of standard of living and daily expenses.
Our dollar was given a deliberate devaluation some time back to help our exports and that has in some way made us believe that the cost of living has deceptively risen. The truth is, we were simply given less rebates (no more dangling carrots and reduced CPF contributions from our employers) and an effected wage variable component (MVC) that has trimmed our disposable income.
So it's natural that even after hospitals reduce their fees, it does not appear to have remedied the situation due to decreases in our shrinking piggys.
One can only tighten up his personal allowances, concentrate on his own needs rather than wants and ride the storm out.
Everyone's affected, not just the select few. Dun make the mistake of thinking those 'poor' people are the only agrieved parties here.
as i mention why we compare ourselves when come to medical healhcare standard and when come to wage competitiveness we compare to neighbouring country? your comparison of french engineer to your pay does not justify we are equal with france. if you are high position engineer like pay $5000/mth , you can basically equal with most country. just like few minister in other country can match our minister pay. not a good guage. ever find out how much a fresh grad from UK earn in their country compare to ours? why working with french engineer become honour?
i did not follow newspaper daily but i do recall few days ago i browse through about inflation here. . i dont agree that everyone is affected. rich do get richer and poor do get poorer. however i do agree that subsidies need to focus more on the poor and the rich have to pay more.
i am true breed singaporean, the way i see some of lowerclass suffer esp less educated one in singapore is really sadden me. we are no asking for free healthcare, but hope govt can contribute more to help the needy in singapore. i hope govt can reduce expenses in other area and pump in more resources to healthcare.
it hard to satisfy everyone but try to help the needy. -
About depression... not because people are depressed they will become stupid and cannot do basic planning... People who are depressed can become suddenly very cheerful and joke a lot before jumping down the building in the evening. People who are depressed can prepare to buy in a lot of insurance etc or write a will or bid the close ones farewell or write a death note before committing sucide.
They are such things called post natal depression... don't tell me they became gaga and cannot plan before they commit sucide. The fact they are commiting sucide proves they are already suffering from depression to a varying degree. -
i fail to see your argument.Originally posted by reyes:as i mention why we compare ourselves when come to medical healhcare standard and when come to wage competitiveness we compare to neighbouring country? your comparison of french engineer to your pay does not justify we are equal with france. if you are high position engineer like pay $5000/mth , you can basically equal with most country. just like few minister in other country can match our minister pay. not a good guage. ever find out how much a fresh grad from UK earn in their country compare to ours? why working with french engineer become honour?
i did not follow newspaper daily but i do recall few days ago i browse through about inflation here. . i dont agree that everyone is affected. rich do get richer and poor do get poorer. however i do agree that subsidies need to focus more on the poor and the rich have to pay more.
i am true breed singaporean, the way i see some of lowerclass suffer esp less educated one in singapore is really sadden me. we are no asking for free healthcare, but hope govt can contribute more to help the needy in singapore. i hope govt can reduce expenses in other area and pump in more resources to healthcare.
it hard to satisfy everyone but try to help the needy.
My basis for comparison was on grounds of status. Singapore and France are both developed nations with similar goals.
I used an engineer as the comparative gauge because engineers are aplenty here. Surely a senior engineer will earn a higher pay then his junior counterpart anywhere in the world. But how does this imply that this is 'basically equal with most country'?
A measure of a person's wealth is not merely based on his income. His propensity to spend and therefore his personal fortune is dependent on many factors such as the country's standard of living, daily expenses such as transportation, food, phone bills etc, whether he invests part of his income in shares or other equities, whether he has a family to support etc.
It is ridiculous to take a person's numerical income at face value and claim a person's monetary well-being. Coupled with other relevant factors, i can make $5000 a huge sum and $10,000 a paltry figure.
No society will hand out freebies for medical expenses. They have however offered financial aid in the form of medishield and medisave with the intention of helping these needy and less fortunate.
Unless you can suggest a better alternative (besides freebies), that's the best option currently. -
A while ago, it was revealed that the costs of several medical procedures in Singapore actually cost less in private hospitals when compared to so called "restructured" (i.e. government) hospitals. Another world's first for Singapore!
That should just about answer the original question -
The following article appeared in Streats a couple of days ago, I believe.
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Doctors, heal thy suffering sector
By CONRAD RAJ
WHENEVER you ask about the high cost of services in Singapore, whether in health care or at one time in port services, the standard answer is that you have to pay for quality.
It seems to me that this argument has worn thin.
Singapore once used to be a shoppers' paradise. No longer. Escalating rentals and other costs have pushed up prices here. At the same time, elsewhere in the world, products of the same or even better quality are being offered at far lower prices than in Singapore.
Yet, many here still cling on to the "we are better" stance, implying that others can't match our overall package because they fall short in quality or flexibility, and hence we can maintain our higher costs.
That surely is a wrong attitude to take.
PSA Corporation (formerly the Port of Singapore Authority) learnt at great cost and some embarrassment the fallacy behind that approach.
Its inability or failure to agree to the demands of the AP Moller Group, parent of Maersk Sealand and the world's largest operator of container ships, resulted in the Copenhagen-headquartered company not only moving most of its operations to the Port of Tanjung Pelepas in Johor but also taking a stake in the port.
With the help of Maersk's expertise, Pelepas is now aggressively competing with Singapore and was also able to lure Evergreen, then the second biggest user of PSA's facilities, to follow it to Johor.
The port stake offered by Pelepas may have weighed heavily in the Maersk decision but observers say that Pelepas, also held out the promise of lower fees.
Talk is that Maersk is still doing a lot of business at PSA wharves, but the initial shift to Pelepas should have been a signal to other Singaporean companies and industries.
Alas, anecdotal evidence indicates that the PSA lesson seems to have been lost on our medical and health-care sector, once the region's undisputed leader.
For example, when a reporter from this paper recently talked to our eye specialists about the disturbing trend of Singaporeans going abroad to seek cheaper cosmetic surgery in places like Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur, the replies emphasised the quality here rather than price.
The Singapore National Eye Centre told Streats: "The centre/surgeon'strack record, experience, quality control and accreditation need to be considered."
AsiaMedic chairman and ophthalmologist Low Cze Hong said: "Be aware of risks in places where hygiene and sanitary standards are not what we expect in Singapore. We will not cut costs or prices just to compete and risk patients' interests."
The fact is that reporters of the various media here who have visited Bangkok or Kuala Lumpur have been impressed by the facilities.
For instance, they seemed to have the latest in eye surgery equipment and doctors who had no problems discussing procedures in English.
A colleague, after undergoing Lasik treatment for his eyes in
Thailand, described Bangkok's Bumrungrad Hospital as a five-star hospital. The hospital, Thailand's largest private health care centre, last year treated more than 3,000 Singaporeans. In all, Bumrungrad treated more than 300,000 foreigners from 140 countries.
Health care has become big business for Thailand. While the Tourism Authority of Thailand doesn't track medical tourism, it is estimated that up to 800,000 foreigners used Thailand's hospitals last year, bringing in about 19 billion baht (S$815 million) – a 25 per cent jump over 2002.
Malaysia is no slouch either. When the Makhota Medical Centre in Malacca was established in 1998, it had less than 1,000 patients from Indonesia. Four years later it had 15,600.
While the Government has gone some way in trying to help the
healthcare industry here reduce costs, the charges are still high relative to our neighbouring competitors.
According to some estimates, open heart surgery here costs about US$11,500 (S$19,800), compared with US$7,000 in Bangkok and US$6,300 in Kuala Lumpur or Malacca.
A day's unsubsidised surgery for cataracts here can cost anything from $2,671 to $3,501. A similar procedure costs about $1,274 in Bumrungrad and $1,458 at Mahkota.
Some of our hospitals here have begun dropping prices, but it seems by not enough.
There is one group of people who can help make a difference: our surgeons.
I'm by no means asking them to live up to the extremes of the Hippocratic Oath – parting with their knowledge for free.
But if Singapore seriously harbours (no pun intended) any intention to be once again the region's undisputed healthcare hub, our doctors need to charge less.
After all, they have a vested interest in our healthcare industry's health. A stream of ill foreigners slipping through their skilled fingers and heading to other shores could create a critical mass that becomes impossible to attract back.
And it would be a shame if this came to pass just because some top doctors found it too hard to give up their dreams of garages full of Porsches and wine cellars brimming with Petrus. -
when i had an accident i had a fractured knee, fractured collar bone: the cut on my knee was so deep that the doctors say they could see my bones!!Originally posted by ShutterBug:Here's a thought: if medical and healthcare isn't costly in SIngapore, why do people choose to commit suicide when they find they have terminal illness? I refer to the the recent sad case of one mother who jumped with her two young children.
I heard that even if you have a disease like cancer, use of your Medisave is still limited!
Why does our government prevent us from using our money to save our life?
so when my blood is oozing out of my body & maybe going to die or don't know maybe be paralysis what do the doctors & nurse do??????
NOTHING!! coz they couldn't contact my relatives to sign the medisave to pay 4 my operation SO i was left on the bed to DIE & wait until my mother arrived...
so she got no CPF & my father is another country so NO $$ the doctors says TOO BAD!
in the end my mom had to do the unthinkable: forge his signature ...
in s'pore if u no $$ no body gives a DAMNED u live or DIE simple as ABC!!!!!!!!!!! -
See biliybong! Viper52 already proven our medical costs very high and u still argue and give all those govment crap! Just shut up and stop all yr lies!
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I think is unfair to compare Singapore hospitals and malaysia and thai hospitals... it is like comparing Thai airlines with SIA... Maybe someone can give us the figures for hospital billing in cities like london or new york or hong kong...
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Of course it's unfair...but look at the numbers being bandied in the article. For open heart surgery, it costs 64% more in Singapore than in Thailand and 82% more than Malaysia. The figures for cataracts are even more shocking. Use the figures in the article, take a calculator and do the math. Pay premium prices for quality? Sure! The problem is, the premium is TOO HIGH! Is the standard here 64% better than Thailand and 82% better than Malaysia? I don't think so.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I think is unfair to compare Singapore hospitals and malaysia and thai hospitals... it is like comparing Thai airlines with SIA... Maybe someone can give us the figures for hospital billing in cities like london or new york or hong kong...
We have to realise, the days of customers having the pay a premium for Singapore are over. That premium has gotten too high, and standards have climbed sufficiently in our rivals, to make it more worthwhile for the customers to go to our rivals.
And anyway, lets not compare Singapore with the region. What about the anomalies in prices between private and government hospitals here then? Isn't it ridiculous that prices for medical procedures are more expensive in the supposedly "subsidized" government hospitals than private ones? By right, government health care costs should not even match private health care costs, never mind exceeding it like the situation here.
Those who think health care here is affordable for all seriously need to wake up and smell the roses. And cut back on reading propaganda drivel. -
Buddy.. it's not that it is too expensive that drives them over the edge.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Here's a thought: if medical and healthcare isn't costly in SIngapore, why do people choose to commit suicide when they find they have terminal illness? I refer to the the recent sad case of one mother who jumped with her two young children.
I heard that even if you have a disease like cancer, use of your Medisave is still limited!
Why does our government prevent us from using our money to save our life?
It is the thought of becoming a hinderance to their loved ones. Some people do not want to be dependent on their children. -
BASICALLY, there is NO REAL CARE here in hospitals, if you have no MONEY.
Everything here, all boils down to one crucial and critical factor: MONEY. It's either you have it, or you die.
So, when a person in hospital is in critical status, potentially ill on the edge of death, what do you think the doctors are more concerned about? Saving the cashless individual's life? I seriously doubt so.
In America, ER divisions saves the people first, then worry about payment later. But with costs and POLICIES in place here in SG, that can only remain a dream..... -
Baseless accusations against the professional healthcare workers in Singapore. Shame on you! Recently, on the forums in the ST recently, the PR head of healthcare, said that hospitals will save lives first before payments in an emergency.Originally posted by ShutterBug:BASICALLY, there is NO REAL CARE here in hospitals, if you have no MONEY.
Everything here, all boils down to one crucial and critical factor: MONEY. It's either you have it, or you die.
So, when a person in hospital is in critical status, potentially ill on the edge of death, what do you think the doctors are more concerned about? Saving the cashless individual's life? I seriously doubt so.
In America, ER divisions saves the people first, then worry about payment later. But with costs and POLICIES in place here in SG, that can only remain a dream.....