Is Medical & Health Care too Expesnive in Singapore?
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In a matter of life and death yes they might save lives first . But in non-emergency cases I believe money plays the main role. Moreover, if some hopitals charge cheaper than others for the same operation that means the more expensive hopitals are over charging and thereby making healthcare expensive in Singapore.
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What viper posted is merely what others have to say. This does not imply he has the same stand but he's probably close.Originally posted by zenden9:See biliybong! Viper52 already proven our medical costs very high and u still argue and give all those govment crap! Just shut up and stop all yr lies!
What most flamers like yourself are blind to are the facts of life. Sure the gahmen can be rather 'squeezy' at times concerning money but no one is going to argue that the opening of medishield and medisave special accounts benefits rather than hurts.
Without those extra contributions, ppl who need medical services will suffer far worse than if they had made no financial planning for illnesses and other aligments.
Do you want freebies to be thrown on your lap? Who's gonna bear the cost of these monetary contributions? The Gahmen? It's simply us taxpayers who indirectly foot the bill.
So think abt that the next time you grab a dangling carrot... -
Did i say freebies? Did I say free medical health service provide to us? When come to a point of arguement,I notice this word of 'free' will come out and try to rebuke our arguement from those govment dog! What we want is reasonable and widely acceptable medical fees provided from the gov. But what we receive is unacceptable and expensive fee!
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Sorry BillyBong, but IMO you're trying to detract from the real issue with the arguments about Medisave etc etc.Originally posted by BillyBong:What viper posted is merely what others have to say. This does not imply he has the same stand but he's probably close.
What most flamers like yourself are blind to are the facts of life. Sure the gahmen can be rather 'squeezy' at times concerning money but no one is going to argue that the opening of medishield and medisave special accounts benefits rather than hurts.
Without those extra contributions, ppl who need medical services will suffer far worse than if they had made no financial planning for illnesses and other aligments.
Do you want freebies to be thrown on your lap? Who's gonna bear the cost of these monetary contributions? The Gahmen? It's simply us taxpayers who indirectly foot the bill.
So think abt that the next time you grab a dangling carrot...
The fact remains that cost of treatment at PUBLIC hospitals is ridiculously high when compared with that in PRIVATE hospitals.
The fact remains that this is ludicrous considering these public hospitals take government subsidies yet have the cheek to charge Singaporeans more or less the same prices as UNSUBSIDIZED private hospitals.
The fact remains that a lot of Singaporeans find the costs of treatment, even in public hospitals prohibitive.
At the end of the day the fact remains that medical treatment in Singapore IS too expensive.
Medisave and MediShield defraying the costs is merely a sideshow to the main issue to the fact that Medical and Healthcare in Singapore is TOO EXPENSIVE. Which was the original question for this topic.
Finally, zenden is right. Whenever the issue of costs in Singapore comes up, the government and it's supporters always come up with the same arguments and sidetracking from the issue of cost, by trying to paint the issue as one of Singaporeans asking for freebies. We're not asking for freebies, we're just asking for prices to be reduced because it doesn't take a fool to figure out that if private hospitals charge more or less the same as government hospitals, and if private hospital charges = profits, then government hospital charges + subsidies = obscene profits.
At Singaporeans' expense. Medisave or not -
Bravo! Bravo! 3 Cheers to Viper52 and a slap to Billybong!
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Isn't it ridiculous that prices for medical procedures are more expensive in the supposedly "subsidized" government hospitals than private ones?
I am not very sure about this fact. Is all area from public to private doctor cheaper ? Otherwise which area is it cheaper ? I mean NTUC generally is cheaper than the stuff sold in Liberty Super Market or Cold Storage. However there will bound to be some items whereby Cold Storage charges lesser.
I have the statistic of both private and public hospital bills here
public
http://app.moh.gov.sg/sta/sta020313.asp#sta020313
private
http://app.moh.gov.sg/sta/sta020315.asp#sta020315
From just looking at the chart, public hospital win all hands down.
The cheapest for medical specialities for private ward B1 is on average $628 in East Shore Hospital while for public open ward is $100 at Tan Tock Seng Hospital. If you want to see the same ward B1 for public hospital, it is still $374 in Alexander Hospital.
So the original assumption that public hospital is higher than private hospital is a myth. Actually I thought that is common sense...
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Originally posted by socrates:
Yeah, one would think it's common sense isn't it? But the fact is that, I was not making assumptions. Fact was, when the MOH first published its price guide last year, it was revealed not only was there a wide gulf in the prices different restructured hospitals charged for similar procedures, some procedures are private hospital charges actually cost less. I cannot argue about the stats you put up, since they relate to ward charges, but the point I was making was for medical procedures.
I am not very sure about this fact. Is all area from public to private doctor cheaper ? Otherwise which area is it cheaper ? I mean NTUC generally is cheaper than the stuff sold in Liberty Super Market or Cold Storage. However there will bound to be some items whereby Cold Storage charges lesser.
I have the statistic of both private and public hospital bills here
[b]public
http://app.moh.gov.sg/sta/sta020313.asp#sta020313
private
http://app.moh.gov.sg/sta/sta020315.asp#sta020315
From just looking at the chart, public hospital win all hands down.
The cheapest for medical specialities for private ward B1 is on average $628 in East Shore Hospital while for public open ward is $100 at Tan Tock Seng Hospital. If you want to see the same ward B1 for public hospital, it is still $374 in Alexander Hospital.
So the original assumption that public hospital is higher than private hospital is a myth. Actually I thought that is common sense...
[/b]
The news made the headlines for a while, then disappeared off the altogether.
I saw my info from the MoH website then. Price comparison by procedure/operation. I don't know why the comparison for a lot of procedures have since been removed, as well as the comparison with private hospitals. -
Panja you just shut up lah... you don't even know what the whole topic or what my reply is all about.
The term for the billing is
Average per day = total amount of inpatient bills / total number of days stayed in hospital (day surgery bills are not included).
I do not really understand what is day surgery bill mean it either means it had remove the medical procedure or the statistic do not involved those who had just operate and return without staying in hospital -
So socrates,u think hospital is hotel .Just need to book the ward and sleep inside.Consultation fees,specialists,medicine fees,X-ray and operations. Have we consider all this into the factor? Don't just just compare the ward fee and a few hospital for comparison!
The ward fee is only small factor compare to the overall pictures of the medical fee,still got the intensive care unit,if u kena! -
Yup, I understand where you are coming from. The prices for daily stay in a restructured hospital is indeed cheaper than a private hospital, and this is to be expected.Originally posted by socrates:The term for the billing is
Average per day = total amount of inpatient bills / total number of days stayed in hospital (day surgery bills are not included).
I do not really understand what is day surgery bill mean it either means it had remove the medical procedure or the statistic do not involved those who had just operate and return without staying in hospital
But like I said, my point was that the prices for medical procedures/operations do not make sense, as I have said, in the MoH's website, the price comparisons in this area between private and government hospitals (which have since been removed) show that despite subsidies, prices for these are very close, and in some areas, that for public hospitals actually exceed private hospitals
Personally, I would feel that comparing prices for medical procedures are more important to gauge affordability, since they would most likely take up the bulk of the costs, as well as being the reason for needing hospital services in the first place. -
Yup, I understand where you are coming from. The prices for daily stay in a restructured hospital is indeed cheaper than a private hospital, and this is to be expected.
no no no... I mean the statistic seems to be the total bil for the stay in the hospital. That is it had included doctor fees, medicine fees, theatre fees etc. I mean I cannot be sure what that single phrase means but the statistic seems to be giving this idea that it is the average of the TOTAL bill, not just for staying in the ward only.
But like I said, my point was that the prices for medical procedures/operations do not make sense, as I have said, in the MoH's website, the price comparisons in this area between private and government hospitals (which have since been removed) show that despite subsidies, prices for these are very close, and in some areas, that for public hospitals actually exceed private hospitals
Personally, I would feel that comparing prices for medical procedures are more important to gauge affordability, since they would most likely take up the bulk of the costs, as well as being the reason for needing hospital services in the first place. -
Originally posted by socrates:
Doubt so...take a look at the points in bold:
no no no... I mean the statistic seems to be the total bil for the stay in the hospital. That is it had included doctor fees, medicine fees, theatre fees etc. I mean I cannot be sure what that single phrase means but the statistic seems to be giving this idea that it is the average of the [b]TOTAL bill, not just for staying in the ward only. [/b]
• Data are based on Medisave claims submitted by hospitals. The data include doctors' charges.
• The comparison only serves as a guide and has not been standardised for the different range of medical Specialties in each hospital.
• Medical Specialties include Cardiology, General Medicine, Geriatric Medicine, Paediatrics Medicine, Neonatology, Neurology, Rehabilitation Medicine, etc
• Surgical Specialties include Cardiothoracic Surgery, ENT, General Surgery, Neurosurgery, Gynaecology, Obstetrics, Orthopaedic Surgery, Paediatrics Surgery, Plastic Surgery, etc
• *Data include neonatology.
**Data exclude neonatology.
• Average per day = total amount of inpatient bills ¸ total number of days stayed in hospital (day surgery bills are not included).
• Hospitals, medical and dental clinics may reproduce this table for distribution to their patients.
I'm no cunning linguist, but I don't think the costs of procedures have been factored in. And the costs of different procedures are so varied anyway. -
Ahhh... that had to depend on how you interprete it... My understanding is this is the average bill for people that visit any specialists. The only problem with this data is it has not been classified according to different specialist cost. For example people going to hospital for heart operations is going to pay more than people going for minor surgeries. They didn't seperate the data into these different areas but jumbled up together as one.
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i feel that medical fees for those low incomes should be free or at least let them pay small amounts even though they r visiting specialist.
Poor people shouldnt be deprive of special medical attention and be treated the same as the rest. -
IMO I believe tat public hospital is still much cheaper than private ones. Therefore I feel tat singapore shouldn't privatise gov hospitals.
Even though eventually the citizens have to pay for the hospital fees, I still prefer to have more medical welfare in the sense tat Gov tax all the citizens equally and give to the people that will need money the most. If compared to other countries, I think singapore is the only country tat want to privatise all their Gov hospitals... anyone have any way to stop tat ? -
SK,
You a Robin Hood of sorts for PAP?? -
some people here live on PLUTO???Originally posted by :Baseless accusations against the professional healthcare workers in Singapore. Shame on you! Recently, on the forums in the ST recently, the PR head of healthcare, said that hospitals will save lives first before payments in an emergency.
U 're so naive: u mean i say i can fly like superman means i really can fly like superman??
accusations are base on experience: actions speak louder than words: the next time the head of healtcare say free medication i guess u're stupid enough 2 believe ... i guess that's why they have woodbridge mental institue!! -
when i couldn't walk & had to go 4 physio therapy but had no $$$ coz it soo expensive did doctors say: oh so poor thing, i help u "save" your life ... i help u subsidize for u ... ????
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Let's keep things in perspective here.Originally posted by Viper52:Sorry BillyBong, but IMO you're trying to detract from the real issue with the arguments about Medisave etc etc.
The fact remains that cost of treatment at PUBLIC hospitals is ridiculously high when compared with that in PRIVATE hospitals.
The fact remains that this is ludicrous considering these public hospitals take government subsidies yet have the cheek to charge Singaporeans more or less the same prices as UNSUBSIDIZED private hospitals.
The fact remains that a lot of Singaporeans find the costs of treatment, even in public hospitals prohibitive.
At the end of the day the fact remains that medical treatment in Singapore IS too expensive.
Medisave and MediShield defraying the costs is merely a sideshow to the main issue to the fact that Medical and Healthcare in Singapore is TOO EXPENSIVE. Which was the original question for this topic.
Finally, zenden is right. Whenever the issue of costs in Singapore comes up, the government and it's supporters always come up with the same arguments and sidetracking from the issue of cost, by trying to paint the issue as one of Singaporeans asking for freebies. We're not asking for freebies, we're just asking for prices to be reduced because it doesn't take a fool to figure out that if private hospitals charge more or less the same as government hospitals, and if private hospital charges = profits, then government hospital charges + subsidies = obscene profits.
At Singaporeans' expense. Medisave or not
My medisave portion was in response to a post by 'reyes'.
As for the question of hospital charges, yes i'd say they are relatively expensive. But remember they have not increased, simply become relatively less affordable because of bad times and ppl have to dig deep to pay their expenses.
Which is precisely why most govt hospitals have agreed to lower their fees. However i disagree with your statement 'public hospitals take government subsidies yet have the cheek to charge Singaporeans more or less the same prices as UNSUBSIDIZED private hospitals'. That to me is unsubstantiated. I hope you're not comparing professional fees of specialists to those of mere doctors. because that is really taking taking a 'watermelon' and comparing it to a 'lemon'.
How on earth can places like SGH and Tan Tock Seng charge similar fees to private hospitals like Mt E and Mt A? No offense but have you even been for treatment to any of these places?
I have. And i'm fully aware that the cost diference between these two types of hospitals are vastly significant, not in the hundreds, but enough for them to distinguish the apparent gap in class . -
Originally posted by Viper52:
To be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter whether that section in bold covers medical procedures or not. I doubt anyone but the richest will have a medisave account so brimming with credits to pay for treatment like Orthopaedic Surgery and so on.
Doubt so...take a look at the points in bold:
• Data are based on Medisave claims submitted by hospitals. The data include doctors' charges.
• The comparison only serves as a guide and [b]has not been standardised for the different range of medical Specialties in each hospital.
• Medical Specialties include Cardiology, General Medicine, Geriatric Medicine, Paediatrics Medicine, Neonatology, Neurology, Rehabilitation Medicine, etc
• Surgical Specialties include Cardiothoracic Surgery, ENT, General Surgery, Neurosurgery, Gynaecology, Obstetrics, Orthopaedic Surgery, Paediatrics Surgery, Plastic Surgery, etc
• *Data include neonatology.
**Data exclude neonatology.
• Average per day = total amount of inpatient bills ¸ total number of days stayed in hospital (day surgery bills are not included).
• Hospitals, medical and dental clinics may reproduce this table for distribution to their patients.
I'm no cunning linguist, but I don't think the costs of procedures have been factored in. And the costs of different procedures are so varied anyway.
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It's merely a 'subsidy', not an avenue of payment.
Interestingly enuff, i visited the MOH website in search of those comparison figures you spoke of. Sad to say they have indeed been 'removed'. Perhaps those figures could have cleared things up. -
Guys before you flame Singapore's healthcare, think about worse systems throughout the world that are even more expensive, yes even in places like USA or UK.
UK's national health scandal sucks, government hospital waiting lists are MONTHS and MONTHS long, with people with serious diseases waiting longer than those with minor ailments. THat sucks, even though healthcare is cheap. BEfore you complain SG's healthcare is too expensive, think about the good service it offers.
Singapore's healthcare docs are definitely more qualified and certified than SEA's region. Why else then do we have more foreign patients in SG than any other SEAN country? I have seen healthcare in Indonesia and India, and i can tell you its expensive and lousy, with long waiting lists and doctors that contradict each other.
Be happy for Singapore's healthcare/